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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Confederate Flag Removed; Interviwe with Rep. James Clyburn; Baby Doe Image. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 10, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:12] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

That new day that was declared by the governor of South Carolina, it's today, it's arrived and more than three weeks since a senseless church massacre in Charleston, some real positive, progressive action - yes, I said action - has actually been taken. That flag that has divided the state for decades and was embraced by that church killer is no longer flying next to the state capital. It is now down for good.

And I want you to watch this and listen to the reaction of the crowd that gathered in Columbia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, hey, hey, hey, good-bye. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, hey, hey, hey, good-bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There's a lot of emotion amid that pomp and circumstance.

This is Columbia, South Carolina, where the confederate battle flag, the rebel flag, was ceremoniously lowered and taken away. All of this playing out like you're seeing just about two hours ago.

And if you want to see that flag now, you will have to go to a museum. A museum that is holding a lot of other historical relics and artifacts from a bygone era.

"CNN Tonight" anchor Don Lemon just finished speaking with South Carolina's governor, Nikki Haley. This is her first interview since that confederate flag was removed from the statehouse grounds. He joins me live now from the capital in Columbia.

So what did the governor say, Don?

DON LEMON, ANCHOR, CNN'S "CNN TONIGHT": You know, Ashleigh, it's weird. Right after, you know, she presided over this historic ceremony, she came right into her office where he had our cameras set up and you could feel that she was touched, she was moved by this. And in that interview, she was very candid about her experiences as a child growing up, the child of immigrants, of Indian immigrants, here in South Carolina. And she said, that wasn't easy as a child. She shared personal experiences with me. And that was my takeaway from the interview. I noticed it and she said it, that she, this experience, changed her. She's a changed person from this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's important for people to know what it's like to be in another person's shoes. And if you watch the legislative debate, that's what happened. People put themselves in each other's shoes so they understood what the respect of tradition and heritage was and that it wasn't about hate. But the other side also learned how painful that flag was and the pain that it was causing people. That's what brought South Carolina to this new day was the ability to look at each other and listen and say it's time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:00] LEMON: Yes. She said we all should take a moment to walk in each other's shoes. I talked to her about what the president's statement, what he tweeted out about what the vice president tweeted out as well and if she indeed thought that this was a new day. And I also - I also spoke with her about whether or not that flag should be flown in state parks and at memorials and it will be interesting - I don't want to give it away, but I want our viewers to tune in to listen to what she had to say about that.

But, you know, it was, for me, sitting down with her on this historical day, it was a moment. And I true - I do truly believe that she is change by this and she wants, as she said, just as you heard in that soundbite, she thinks that we all can be, when it comes to race, when it comes to political affiliation and what have you, we all can be a bit more empathetic. And this, because of those nine people who died and the coming down of this flag, that is representative of that.

BANFIELD: All right, our Don Lemon doing a great job down there. Thank you for that, Don. We'll look forward to more of that interview as well coming up in the next hour on CNN. You'll see extended excerpts from that interview with Governor Nikki Haley and our Don Lemon.

Reaction is coming in now from around the country. The president tweeting this out, "South Carolina taking down the confederate flag - a signal of good will and healing and a meaningful step towards a better future." And then there was this from South Carolina's Representative James Clyburn, "I look forward to the citizens of South Carolina being under one flag, the American flag."

Our Nick Valencia is live now at the museum in Columbia where that flag ostensibly should be right now, but the last we saw it was sort of headed up the steps ceremoniously and unceremoniously disappearing in a way. It is there now, Nick?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is here now, Ashleigh. I spoke with the director of South Carolina Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum and he said it arrived here just about an hour ago. It was transferred from the state grounds there where Don Lemon is by armored car from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, arriving here just a short time ago and currently it's being put in storage. Under that joint resolution that was agreed upon by the senate, this museum, an accredited museum, has until January 1st, we just learned, to decide what to do with this flag. So they have a few months to figure it out.

There are already people coming here far and wide. I just spoke to a man named Michael Herman (ph), who came from about an hour away just to see if he can get a glimpse of that confederate flag, but it's not up yet. The director tells me that they could make a decision to temporarily display it to the public, but that decision has not been made yet.

An emotional issue. Obviously one that has divided the community. People believe that that flag should stay up. Others, this is a moment in history for them. A great day, overjoyed. I've spoken to both sides. And we also talked to a couple members of the honor guard who were the individuals who brought down that flag.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. DERRICK J. GAMBLE, S.C. STATE TROOPER: Yes, ma'am, I definitely am aware of the historical moment that we had here today. But as far as personally, it doesn't have any effect for me.

CPL. RUPERT B. POPE, S.C. STATE TROOPER: Yes, I have an awareness that this is a historic moment for South Carolina and I was humbled to be a part of it. To have a sense of pride to be able to represent all the fallen people of South Carolina. But more than anything, I was just humbled here to be a part of it this morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: About 15 years ago, a separate controversial debate to bring down a different confederate flag from the top of the capital to move it to that - where it was just a couple of hours ago, to that confederate soldiers' monument, that flag that was taken down also housed here in this relic room and military museum. Now the confederacy battle flag that was removed just a short time ago will also be here as well.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, our Nick Valencia.

Just interesting also to note, Nick, as you did that interview and we watched the pictures that are up beside you and me right now, one black honor guard, two white honor guards doing this job and taking down that flag together. I don't think that was lost on anybody, either.

Nick Valencia reporting for us live in Columbia. Thank you.

I also want to bring in Bakari Sellers, a CNN contributor and former South Carolina state representative. Bakari, you watched the flag come down. You watched it was - as it was

rolled up by those honor guard members and taken away and you heard Nick just say now it's in storage. It's not even where you can see it at this point. I just want to get your reaction.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's been an emotional day. I actually shed tears as the flag was coming down. As the flag came down, tears came down. And it was tears for those people whose shoulders i stand upon. It was tears of joy. It was teared of relief. But it was also an acknowledgement that this is just the beginning of a very long journey, not just in South Carolina, but in the rest of the country, having this healthy discussion and dialogue about race, one that can bring us together.

[12:10:02] BANFIELD: Bakari, there was this one moment, I'm not sure if you can answer this for me or not because I don't know the protocol of the honor guardsmen. I have not seen this happen before in your state, but it looked to me as he tied that flag up with a very small string that as soon as he completed the tie, he sort of did a double fist clench, almost - it looked to, you know, the average person who might not know better as a celebration. Do you know anything more being the fact that you are a representative, do you have any insight as to whether that was something extra?

SELLERS: Well - well, I - I can honestly tell you that I haven't lived many days. Actually, I haven't lived a single day with that flag down. So I really don't know how they take it down. I - we were asking ourselves that question last night, how, in fact, do they actually take the flag down? In my 30 years, this is the first day that I can look over my shoulder and not see the confederate flag. So I really can't answer your question. I do know that the governor wanted that flag to be taken down with dignity and respect and I think it was - I think - I think it was done so.

BANFIELD: And speaking of the dignity and respect, what about those who turned out? I saw some placards. I saw some other flags. I've seen people from both camps there. But give me a bit of a feel for what the sense was, whether there was tension and how different people reacted.

SELLERS: It wasn't - it wasn't tension. It was like election night times a thousand when your candidate won the race. It was thousands of people out here. We were singing. They were singing "nah, nah, nah, hey, hey, hey, good-bye." It was joy. People were in their office buildings - we have these huge office buildings around. I mean it was just - there was no - absolutely no tension. There were a few flag supporters here, but most of us, we were just hugging. And I spoke to a gentleman and told him congratulations. And he said, why are you telling me congratulations? And I said, because any person who bended knee to say a prayer or lifted their voices about taking this flag down and moving the state forward can today scream hallelujah.

BANFIELD: Bakari, it's nice to see you and I'm glad that this was a day that you will remember for the rest of your life that it has such a critical importance in your life and many people across this country as well. Thank you, sir.

SELLERS: Thank you so much.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, that flag may be gone, but what about all the anger and the resentment that it provoked? Is that also gone? I'm going to talk about that with one of the state's most respected lawmakers, Congressman James Clyburn, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:50] BANFIELD: It's CNN's breaking news this hour. Something happened just two hours ago that President Obama calls, quote, "a signal of good will and healing in the state of South Carolina." A color guard lowered the confederate battle flag from the grounds of the state capital amid hundreds of cheers. That flag was taken away for the last time.

U.S. Congressman James Clyburn is a South Carolina Democrat. He joins us now live from The Hill.

Congressman, I'd love to get your reaction. I know you're in Washington, but you can't have missed these pictures in your home state.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Oh, no. Thank you so much for having me.

I watched that ceremony this morning and it was a great sigh of relief for me. I joined this battle started by Senator Kay Patterson almost 50 years ago. Of course, I joined in much later in it. I wrote an op- ed piece about the confederate battle flag. At that time the Tennessee flag, flying on top of the statehouse, and in the chambers of the house and senate, and I was rewarded with police protection for almost five years. So this is a real relief for me. And I hope it is a sign that South Carolina is now going to begin to come together as one state, a part of one nation, all pledging allegiance to one flag. That's what I felt this morning. I hope I am proved to be right.

BANFIELD: Well, and I - I want to read what you actually tweeted out because it was almost verbatim to what you just said. You tweeted out, "I look forward to the citizens of South Carolina being under one flag, the American flag."

But you and I both know, as many people watching know, one action does not necessarily mean the panacea to all that ails. And I think many of us looked back to the election of a black president as a massive turning point in race relations in this country. Where do you see this moment in that spectrum in terms of the problem this country suffers and the progress we still need to make?

CLYBURN: Well, on yesterday, as the governor was signing the legislation, I was on the floor of the House of Representatives speaking out against an amendment that was put up by one of my colleagues who happens to be from southern California. He said at the urging of his leadership on the Republican side to stop the National Park Service from voluntarily not selling confederate memorabilia, from voluntarily not selling it. And there were two other things concerning the confederate battle flag that was addressed in that amendment. So it says to me that we really can't rest on our laurels yet.

At the same time South Carolina was pledging allegiance to one flag, here we are here in the House of Representatives raising that flag as something to be honored going forward. So I would hope that the speaker of the House will do as he said he was going to do, get a group together and let's sit down and take a hard look at what this battle flag is all about. Because, as I keep saying, that was never an official flag. That's always been a battle flag. So why do we keep celebrating this symbol of division, of rebellion, of defiance. We need to sit down.

BANFIELD: So, congressman, that's a great point.

CLYBURN: Yes.

[12:19:59] BANFIELD: That's a great point because the flag for so many was such a representative icon of that battle, of that - of that effort to secede from a union in order to preserve slavery and states' rights. But there are so many other things that also honor that. Some see it as good that it was an effort to unify a divided union, that Lincoln wanted to reach out and preach conciliation. Others see things like the USS Stonewall Jackson, the 10 Army bases that are named after confederate generals as perhaps the next step. What do you see in terms of the sign posts of the confederacy? Was it just the flag that was so offensive or are these other things also problematic?

CLYBURN: Well, you know, I don't get upset about the monuments. The monuments do not give off any semblance of officialdom. I'm concerned about flying the flag in the house chambers, in front of a statehouse, over a statehouse dome if -- you know, all of our statehouse grounds, or, in fact, museums. And so if I wanted to, you know, to take the statues down, and they're the monuments, really they need to be joined by other people, as in Maryland where Taney, Chief Justice Taney is on one side of the capital, you've got Thurgood Marshall statue on the other side of the capital. That is - it's the kind of thing that is OK with me.

What's not OK with me is us using our official buildings, like this big Capitol here, allowing the sale of these memorabilia at our national parks. These kinds of things - especially when the people at Fort Sumter responded by saying, we are no longer going to do it. This resolution was saying to them, oh, yes, you are. You are going to keep doing it. So that's the kind of stuff that bothers me.

If someone were to wrap their house in that flag, put it on their truck or their automobiles, that's fine with me. I don't want it to have any official capacity. And I would hope that in South Carolina, that the governor, the leadership of the legislature would now take a hard look at Senator Clementa Pinckney's favorite passion, and that is, let's get health care for all of our citizens. Put a committee together to sit down and look at what they did in Kentucky and what they did in Arkansas.

BANFIELD: Right.

CLYBURN: And if you don't want it to be done under the Affordable Care Act, then come up with a good plan of your own. Let's just get health care to all the people who need it.

BANFIELD: Well -

CLYBURN: Let's get a good, solid educational system in rural South Carolina for everybody who needs it.

BANFIELD: We -

CLYBURN: That, to me, is what will make for a good future.

BANFIELD: And we'll be watching to see what the next steps are to honor those who died, not only Reverend Clementa Pinckney, but the other eight who were murdered in that church.

CLYBURN: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Congressman, it's great of you to join us. Thanks so much. I do appreciate it. Jim Clyburn in D.C.

CLYBURN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Thank you, sir.

Coming up next, the story of a little girl thrown out literally like trash and then found dead and washed up ashore near Boston. This is what she may have looked like while she was alive. The picture capturing the attention of tens of millions of people. I'm going to talk with John Walsh, former host of "America's Most Wanted," now the host of CNN's "The Hunt," as police hunt for whomever is responsible for this little girl's death. A girl known only as "Baby Doe."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:24] BANFIELD: Her face and her story is tugging at the heart strings of not just the city of Boston but really the entire country. By now you may have heard of "Baby Doe," the little girl whose body was found two weeks ago along the rocky shoreline of the Boston Harbor. Her body was found in a trash bag. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children released this image last week of what she may have looked like in life. And since they released this photo, this image, this composite, more than 50 million people have shared this picture or seen this picture. And if you think about that number, it's nearly one out of every six people in the United States. Still, with all of those eyeballs, police have no idea who she is.

John Walsh joins me now. You mow him as the former host of "America's Most Wanted." He's also the host of CNN's "The Hunt," which just happens to be premiering with an all new season Sunday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

It's so timely that you're here just as we start to look at this story of "Baby Doe." Can I ask you just off the bat, with your connection of having started the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, how did they get a composite to look so incredibly life-like?

JOHN WALSH, HOST, CNN'S "THE HUNT": Well, they're pros. They're pros. And first I've got to say, I'm proud to say that you worked for me at "America's Most Wanted."

BANFIELD: I did.

WALSH: And did a great job.

BANFIELD: Years ago.

WALSH: And you know the mission. And now I'm - the mission is here at CNN.

The National Center had its 30th anniversary this year and there are really good. They have the software, the technology, and they have the technicians, the professionals who do computer imaging of unidentified dead children, like this, and the computer age enhancement of long- term missing children. So they're real pros and they do a good job.

And the Massachusetts Police, first people they reached out to was NCMEC, to the National Center, and said, build us a composite of this little girl and let's ask the world. The center has great connections with FaceBook and YouTube.

BANFIELD: Yes.

WALSH: These - we've joined the social media world and FaceBook and YouTube have put this out to 45 million people.

BANFIELD: It's unbelievable the amount of traction that it got. And yet it's just so confounding that still no I.D. Do you expect that will change?

WALSH: I hope it will change. Over the years, I did many of these cases. I did "Baby Lollipop," who was a badly abused child who was found in pajamas that had lollipops, in Miami. It took years to solve that case. The boy in the box in Philadelphia, it took years. So it's - they're not solved overnight.

[12:29:55] And usually - maybe this isn't the case, but lots of times they're people that live off the grid. They're people - they may be migrant workers, illegal aliens, people who never, ever want to a hospital to have the child. No birth certificate.