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Dr. Drew
Bill Cosby`s Biggest Defender Might Be His Wife; Donald Trump Outspoken Truth Teller Or A Racist; Bill Cosby Accused Of Drugging And Raping Dozens Of Women, His Wife Standing By Him; Donald Trump Continues To Make Controversial Statements; A Savage Act Sends Four Women Flying And All Caught On Tape
Aired July 13, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(21:00:15) DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Bill Cosby`s biggest defender might be his wife. Did she in fact say, his accusers consented to
sex. And, Donald Trump outspoken truth teller or a racist?
Plus, the street brawl video, you have got to see to believe. But, it all starts now with the "Top of the Feed," Bill Cosby accused of drugging and
raping dozens of women. His wife standing by him. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL COSBY, ACCUSED OF SEXUAL ASSAULT: There is a thing about Spanish fly.
LARRY KING, TELEVISION TALK SHOW HOST: The old story was if you took a little drop --
COSBY: If you took a little drop -- it was on the head of a --
KING: Pen.
COSBY: Pen.
KING: That is right.
COSBY: I put it in a drink.
KING: And, you put it in a Coca Cola. It does not matter.
COSBY: It does not make it -- and the girl would drink it, and --
KING: And, she is yours.
COSBY: Hello, America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTINA RUEHLI, ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: I had two drinks that I am clear about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN TARSHIS, ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: He made me a drink.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANICE DICKINSON, FORMER "AMERICA`S NEXT TOP MODEL" JUDGE AND ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: He said, "Oh, I got something for that," and he gave me
a pill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEVERLY JOHNSON, MODEL AND ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: And I felt something very strange going on in my head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUEHLI: He had his hand on the back of my head, and he was trying to push it toward his (EXPLETIVE WORD) penis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA JOY TRAITZ, ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: He started grabbing at my chest and, you know, he is trying to fondle me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA VALENTINO, ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: He just got up and he came over and he sat down. And, he took his belt off, unzipped his pants and
pushed my head down. And, then he flipped me over. And, then when he was done., he got up and he started to walk out the front door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: According to "The New York Post" sources, Camille Cosby knew that her husband was having infidelities and claims these indiscretions were
consensual.
Joining us Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist and Professor at Pepperdine University; Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com; Michael Catherwood, my "Love
Line" and KABC Radio co-host, and now he is the new host of "Chain Reaction" on GSN.
And in the audience Lisa Bloom, attorney at Avvo.com. Here we go. All right, Vanessa, she thought it was consensual. All right, but she was
still kind of OK with it? I mean she is signing off like, "All right."
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: She says -- she was very honest in that. She knew what she signed up for. You have Bill Cosby. You have --
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait.
BARNETT: But, she signed up for a guy who would not be faithful to her.
PINSKY: Allegedly, she knew that he was going to cheat on her. She was fine with it. She signed up and she even said that I created him. I knew
what I was getting. I signed on for this, allegedly. We have to say allegedly. But, she was OK with this and now he is telling her that these
things were consensual. "These women came to my room. They were open to it." This was just actually extra bonus. But, I can see how she believes.
PINSKY: And, well, who are we to say, Mike, what people is arrangements are in their marriages. I certainly -- If somebody asked me -- Leo asked
me what would happen if they came in my office and said this is our arrangement, man. This is just how -- My first question would be, are you
going to stay in this marriage or not?
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, "LOVE LINE" AND KABC RADIO CO-HOST: Yes.
PINSKY: And, if you are going to stay in, it is not healthy. We may move this in a healthy direction, but let us try to work on this, right, Judy?
I mean it is hard to -- Our job is not to tell people how to live, right?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No. That is right. And, every marriage has their own agreement and, and she faithfully came forward and said, "You
know what? Whether or not they started that way or they did not, she at some point made peace with the factthat he was going to have extramarital
affairs.
But, the way that she talks about it, some of the things that Vanessa mentioned and other things that really show us really where she is at is
trying to get control of the situation, where she has already lost control.
So, she is saying it was my choice to let him cheat. I am OK with it. I am the one who created him. But, I really truly believe that she does not
think that he actually raped these women.
BARNETT: No! Not at all.
CATHERWOOD: But, I think it is really strange. I mean there is a big difference between a guy who fools around on his wife --
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: -- and a guy who has like this -- this like corridor of ludes that he drugs women up with.
PINSKY: Yes.
[APPLAUSE ]
CATHERWOOD: And, then like -- by the way, you know, we talked about --
PINSKY: Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, of course.
CATHERWOOD: Exactly.
PINSKY: But the evidence suggests --
CATHERWOOD: But, you know, we talked to some young ladies, some alleged victims --
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: -- on the radio show today --
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: And, both of them claim that he had like a team of, you know, people --
PINSKY: Helpers.
CATHERWOOD: Yes, kind of around him, his little helpers. And, so, either way, regardless of -- and we always have to say allegedly, but after so
many people stepped forward, so many young ladies have stepped forward, at some point, I wonder where Mrs. Cosby draws the line.
Like, I understand supporting your husband through thick and thin. I understand maybe you had a deal with infidelity, but after 25 women have
claimed that your husband raped them --
HO: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: -- do not you just say as a human being it is time for me to separate myself?
BARNETT: I think it is the definition.
HO: -- I think the denial is so strong in her that she just somehow made it OK in her brain that this was not actually happening?
PINSKY: Clearly. Let us get input from the audience. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes. I am for Cosby, because I really believe his wife. It might feel like, "Why wait so long?" OK?
PINSKY: Why do these women wait so long is the question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Right. Why do the women, first of all, wait so long? If this really happened and if someone was trying to drug you,
you are going to immediately go tell the authorities --
[21:05:00] PINSKY: OK. Hold on. Now, I would say that I have an attorney here representing some of these women.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Hi.
PINSKY: So, let us see what she says.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I do, but not so long.
BLOOM: I could appreciate that.
PINSKY: But, Lisa -- listen, I would say -- you know, listen, this is what a lot of people are saying. You are not alone in that. And, I would say
that, that was a particular time of history when women did not feel comfortable coming forward, number one, and the stories we hear about the
women that did come forward, they were told to shut up.
BLOOM: Well, that is what I want to say. So, first of all, a lot of women did could come forward, women like Andrea Constan in 2005-2006. The
district attorney said, "Well, you do not have any evidence," when a woman`s testimony is evidence.
When that District Attorney could have gotten to the civil case and seen the very admissions that we all discovered last week, namely Bill Cosby
saying under oath, "Yeah, I did procure drugs for the purpose of having sex with women. So, a lot of people in law enforcement dropped the ball.
There is a woman right now Chloe Goins here in Los Angeles, who had gone to police, and the police are actively investigating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: There is something called a rape kit -- A rape kit.
PINSKY: Not back then. Not back then.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.
PINSKY: No. Listen, I will tell you that I was in training when the rape kits got going --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: OK.
PINSKY: And, you are right, later, certainly 2005, there were rape kits.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: But at the hospital, there are still -- because my grandmother was RN --
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: -- at the hospital even back in the `80s.
PINSKY: Yes, in the `80s
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: My friend got raped and guess what? She went to the hospital and authorities did handle it. So --
BLOOM: OK. But what I want to say to that is, you are right, it is better if women immediately go and have the rape kit done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Right.
BLOOM: But what we have to try to do is put ourselves in the shoes of other people who might not do that and why would they maybe not do that?
Because they are up against one of the most powerful and wealthiest people in America, and they are afraid they are going to be squashed. They are
afraid they are going to be attacked and vilified.
As my client, Janice Dickenson was. And, that is why we are suing him now for defamation. Bill Cosby has spent millions of dollars on attorneys over
the years to keep women out of court. And, now, in 2015 some of us are trying to kick that courthouse door down for our clients, and I hope we do
get in.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right. Thank you for your comment. I appreciate it, ladies. But, one of the things, Lisa, I have a question about is, you know, today,
let us say a woman goes up to a guy`s room, like goes up with Mike, before were you married --
CATHERWOOD: Which was very common. Of course.
PINSKY: Very common. And says we are going to have sex. We are going to get loaded and after we get loaded, we are going to have sex. The moment
she gets wasted on anything, even on two glasses of wine, in the eyes of the law she can no longer render consent.
BLOOM: That is correct.
PINSKY: OK.
BLOOM: And, if you have sex with her, you are a rapist.
PINSKY: OK. Now, people got to make note of it.
BARNETT: But --
PINSKY: That is the fact.
BARNETT: That is the fact --
PINSKY: But -- But you are going to ask this question, I hope. Go ahead, ask it. Ask it.
BARNETT: But the consent was already there before --
PINSKY: It does not matter.
BARNETT: If you said, I am getting drunk and I am having sex, that is consent on both --
PINSKY: But once you are wasted, once you are a little bit intoxicated, you can no longer render consent.
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: My question, though, Lisa, is it was not like that in the `70s, `80s, and `90s. There was no law in place. Can we judge those people by
the same standards that are in place today?
BLOOM: That is because, I do not know any of the Cosby accusers, who say I told Bill Cosby, I would consent to him having sex with me when I passed
out. That is number one. Number two, Camille Cosby cannot consent to her husband raping women.
PINSKY: OK. Yes, sir?
BLOOM: It does not matter if you --
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Yes, sir, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I think we have to remember for those of us, who are old enough to remember how great he was when we were younger, fat
Albert and the Cosby Show and "A Different World" and everything that he did that made us smile and laugh is what is so hard for us to believe now
that this is the same person.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: That is right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: And --
PINSKY: And, listen, Amy Schumer did --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: As much as we do not want to believe that this happened --
PINSKY: So, there is our denial, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Here is the thing --
PINSKY: Mike, I cannot get the words out when I say it sometimes. Amy Schumer did a brilliant piece on exactly this.
CATHERWOOD: But I was old enough to where Dr. Huxtable was like my de facto dad. And, when I was born in `79. So, "The Cosby Show" was hitting
its peak when I was like a little impressionable kid.
I thought "The Cosby Show" was the greatest thing ever. I thought that he was the most trusting guy you can see on television. That absolutely does
not apply to me now. I do not think of it one bit, because I am like he is probably a really effective serial rapist.
PINSKY: All right --
CATHERWOOD: Like it does not get all apart of me.
PINSKY: Hang on. We got to keep this conversation going. Later on, I am going to show you the video that is tough to watch but is something
everyone is talking about. This is it here. It is very -- Ooh! My God! We are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:09:16] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL COSBY: People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake. And then we all run out and we`re outraged. Oh, the cops
shouldn`t have shot him. What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?
COSBY: I can`t even talk the way these people talk. Why you ain`t where you at, go, why, where?
(LAUGHING)
COSBY: I do not know who these people are. And, I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the House. Everybody knows it is important to speak English, except these knuckleheads.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is a part of Bill Cosby`s so called, "Pound Cake Speech." The judge actually cited that as one of the reasons he had unsealed the
deposition in which Bill Cosby admits to having obtained Quaaludes for the intent to use for sex.
Judge, said, Cosby was as such a public moralist and therefore his right to privacy was diminished. Back to discuss Judy, Vanessa, Mike, Lisa. Lisa,
was it right that, that deal was undone based on the whim of that judge, suggesting that merely the guy is a moralist, therefore I can undo a deal.
BLOOM: Well, it is not a win and it was not a deal. The deal was between the attorneys. That stuff is still all confidential. But the judge sealed
the record back in 2005 on the basis that Cosby was a private figure. The judge reconsidered in 2015. And, you know what the law is, the court
records are generally public.
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait.
BLOOM: So, it is not a win.
PINSKY: Because he was a private figure back then --
BLOOM: Back in 2005 --
PINSKY: He was a public figure back then.
BLOOM: Well, it was a private matter, the judge thought in 2005.
PINSKY: The same judge now undoing it?
BLOOM: Yes.
[21:15:00] PINSKY: Same judge undid it.
BLOOM: I do not know if it is the same judge. It is Pennsylvania court.
PINSKY: Do you guys have any discomfort with this? I mean I am not into protecting rapists.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: But, I am saying that they made a deal, they closed the record and then all of a sudden, we are going to undo this, because he --
BARNETT: It is a personal decision. He just wanted it out in the public.
PINSKY: Exactly.
BARNETT: Exactly. He is like, "Oh, you want to be a hypocrite," which Cosby kind of is. But, he is like, if you want to do this, and I am going
to do this. It felt like a personal attack on Bill Cosby. It had nothing to do with the fact that these records should have been open.
CATHERWOOD: It is like when you hear the story in a movie or even in real life when like, the dad of a daughter who has been sexually abused, kills
the guy who d could it. And you kind of -- your heart says good on you. But, you cannot really take the law in your own hands. And, I do feel like
there is a strange perversion of the U.S. Justice System by this court.
PINSKY: All right.
CATHERWOOD: You know?
PINSKY: Speaking directly to that, on the phone I have Horace Cooper. He is chairman of Project 21, The National Leadership Network for black
conservative. So, Horace, tell me, an unpopular criminal, a public figure, they get a different application of the law? No? Yes?
HORACE COOPER, CO-CHAIR, "PROJECT 21: Well, that is what appears to have happened in this case, and it is troubling to a great degree. It is not we
evaluate the behavior of the judge on whether we like the ruling or not. We have to look at the basis of the ruling.
And, there is a code of judicial conduct that every single federal judge is bound by. And, it requires them when they issue their opinions and their
rulings and other actions that they take to make sure that people have confidence that their decisions are impartial and that they are not
improperly motivated by either personal or private gain on the judge`s part.
PINSKY: And, Horace, I am going to let Lisa --
BLOOM: I do not know what he is talking about --
PINSKY: Lisa, I think what he is saying is -- I think what he is say something a deal is a deal.
BLOOM: There is no deal. This is not a deal. This was a judge in 2005, who sealed the record temporarily pending a further showing. And, guess
what? If this had been made public in 2005 as it should have been, we would have all known for the last ten years what Cosby copped to.
And maybe a lot of women would not have been raped. A number of them alleged that since 2005 they were raped and they have been piled on and
they have been vilified because we did not know until now that Cosby admitted to it.
PINSKY: Horace, go ahead.
COOPER: Yes. That is exactly the wrong standard. It is not what society would gain --
BLOOM: We do not care about rape.
COOPER: No, no. See, this is the problem. When we are dealing with law, everybody is supposed to get the benefit of the law. If they are popular,
if they are unpopular, if they are accused, it does not matter what the circumstances are.
A really quick example, if you are in a civil case in 2015, you are a grandparent and you are being accused of letting your child sit recklessly
unbelted and someone says, "Well, I have a picture from 1970 where they were letting their son ride on the center console." It was legal to do
that then and it is not an appropriate reference to make in 2015. The law has changed.
BLOOM: OK. What that has to do with rape, I cannot imagine because rape has been illegal ten years ago, and now, and ever since. So, that does not
make a lot of sense. The more -- I have actually read this decision, Horace. And the law presumptively is court records are open in America.
They should be open.
COOPER: Absolutely not.
BLOOM: We do not have secret trials in America.
COOPER: That is a misstatement of the law.
BLOOM: No, it is not.
COOPER: Now, we have to be careful here. That is a misstatement of the law. In about a third of the country when records are sealed, they are
actually destroyed. They are pulverized.
BLOOM: Not in Pennsylvania.
COOPER: Precisely. So, this circumstance does not arise.
PINSKY: Guys --
COOPER: And, in the other jurisdiction, they are very, very reticent to reopen.
PINSKY: Horace.
COOPER: The fake standard -- just real quick.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOPER: The fake standard, you were a private citizen then, but you are a public citizen now, that is really lawless and dangerous.
PINSKY: OK. And, I really wanted him to raise this issue because a lot of people are uncomfortable and are not sure why they are uncomfortable. I
think that he goes at the heart of that discomfort a little bit. It is a very weird conflict to be in because we do not want to protect a serial
rapist.
HO: No.
PINSKY: But he has a point that -- I just think he has a point --
BLOOM: I got a problem with car seats in 2005.
PINSKY: All right. Listen. It was back that issue, if you apply of the standard for instance of being able to consent for sex if you taken a
substance back when people are using. Listen, I do not think any of it is good, trust me. I cannot defend any. Right?
BLOOM: Right. I think women are saying they consented to have sex when they were passed out from drugs they did not intend to take.
PINSKY: Yes. Trust me --
CATHERWOOD: Do not we have a long history of tweaking the law for people who are very famous? I mean, I am not -- again, it does not --
PINSKY: Listen, speaking of that --
BLOOM: It should not have been sealed in the first place.
PINSKY: Listen. I want to bring in Judd Apatow`s comments. He was extremely critical to Bill Cosby. He spoke out on the "Today" show about
him. Take a look at what Judd said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00] JUDD APATOW, DIRECTOR: When you go out on a date, you do not need seven prescriptions for Quaaludes. I am in show business. Famous
people could not meet women without the enormous prescriptions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE HOST: Are you surprised more people did not have the courage to step out and do what you have done? There are people who are
saying, "Well, wait a minute. Because it is Bill Cosby, let us pump the brakes?"
APATOW: Well, I think we all should be very hesitant about getting involved in anything, but when it is 40 people. It certainly is time for
everybody to wake up and say we should be concerned about the women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes. That summarized my feeling. Judd has always been very matter of fact, very right on about what is at the issue as it pertains to
the victims here. You, Vanessa, have been a little bit uncomfortable with all of it, that his legacy is being destroyed, that his records were
unsealed. How do you reconcile all these things? I feel like Judd Apatow.
BARNETT: I reconciled it with two different Cosbys. Cosby -- he is Cliff Huxtable is not Bill Cosby.
PINSKY: So, leave that alone.
BARNETT: So, I can be OK with that legacy.
PINSKY: Leave the legacy alone. Fine.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BARNETT: I can watch that show.
PINSKY: All right.
BARNETT: Bill Cosby is a rapist.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Wow. You have come a long way. Lisa, thank you. Thank you, guys. Yes, listen. This is Quaaludes, GHB, something is going on here.
There is something going on. And, you know, these women, all have a common story of a very slight exposure and then they lose their memory.
I do not know if they continue to consume and then lose the memory or not. We do not know. It does not matter. Some very high concentration of
something got into these women`s systems and it is always around the same guy.
And he admits to procuring Quaaludes, seven prescriptions. I mean that is ridiculous. I am just saying. Coming up, Donald Trump continues to make
controversial statements. We are going to get into his issues after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:21:40] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:21] DONALD TRUMP, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When Mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. They are not sending you.
They are not sending you. They are sending people that have lots of problems and they are bringing those problems with us.
They are bringing drugs. They are bringing crime. They are rapists and some, I assume, are good people. I love the Mexican people. I love the
spirit of the Mexican people. I love them. Many, many people from Mexico legal. They went in the old fashioned way, they are legal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Time now for a segment we call, "Celebrity Behavior." Donald Trump, racist or misunderstood? Back with Judy, Vanessa, Mike and Lisa.
Vanessa, Let us start with you. Where do you ring in on that issue?
BARNETT: He is a racist! He is a racist! I love the Mexican people like it is fro-yo. Like, "Oh, that is delicious." You cannot talk about people
like this. These are human beings. These are people that have worked for him that have built his companies, that have worked and built his clothing
and you talk about people as if they are disposable and they are nobody. He is discussing rapists -- I mean sorry. Racist.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Rapist and racist.
BARNETT: Racist.
PINSKY: We are talking about our behavior today.
BARNETT: That was the last segment. He is a racist.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Judy, you are shaking your head.
HO: OK. Well, you know what? Donald Trump is obviously just ignorant as hell, I am so sorry. I mean he has no idea what the immigrant calculation
actually is, what those people do, what the Mexican government does. He does not have any idea. And, actually, I am a little bit worried about his
cognitive status. I mean can we get him, so I can do a neuropsych eval on him?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: For an assessment?
HO: He has been circumstantial and crazy in his base.
PINSKY: But you may be surprised. Mike, what have you been dealing with every day on your radio?
CATHERWOOD: Here is the deal. And, I personally do not believe as a Mexican-American, I do not believe, Trump is a racist, I think he is a guy
who has made his career outside of construction development as being an abrasive shoot from the hip entertainment figure.
And, now he is speaking on a podium as a presidential candidate and it all backfires. He is addressing the United States people in the hopes to win a
presidential election.
PINSKY: What do we have to manage every day on the radio? What kind of phone calls do we get?
CATHERWOOD: I am so happy that someone is actually speaking out for me. I have been inundated with nothing , but a bunch of Mexicans are taking my
jobs and taken this and that away.
PINSKY: All right. Let me bring in Gina Loudon. She is the host of America Trends on YouToo America. Gina, we have spoken too -- Mike and I
just armies of people who feel -- Well, I think Trump has tapped into some sort of anger, and that anger has led to a scapegoating of undocumented
immigrants.
GINA LOUDON, HOST OF "AMERICA TRENDS" ON YOUTOO AMERICA: I think that, of course, Ms. Steinle`s mother and dad who just lost their daughter a little
over a week ago due to this sort of rhetoric would probably agree that some of the people coming across the border do put American lives in danger.
They lost their daughter. You look at statistics like "Huffington Post`s" own statistic that said more than 80 percent of the women coming across the
border are raped before they ever get here, Dr. Drew.
Someone is committing these rapes, and I think that trying to stick our heads in the sand and squelch free speech is far more dangerous than just
accepting that we even need to have this conversation.
BARNETT: What?
BLOOM: That is ridiculous.
PINSKY: But, Vanessa, that is what Mike and I think the anger is. People are so anger at, they are having any little misstep in their speech being
attacked that when Trump bombastically goes up and says whatever he wants, people are like "I am not sure I heard it, but, OK, whatever you say."
BARNETT: What is problematic with his statement is that, it is a stereotype. It just lumps all of these people in one category and to say
that there are only Mexicans that are crossing the border that are raping people and killing people in America is asinine. Look, we have white
people killing people --
PINSKY: Hold on, Gina.
BLOOM: What he said was, Mexicans -- we just saw the clip. We just saw the clip and what he said was Mexicans are criminals and rapists, not all
of them, meaning most of them. Meaning in general. That is by definition a racist statement.
BARNETT: Yes.
BLOOM: If a white guy commits a crime like Dylann Roof in North Carolina killing a bunch of black people, we do not say all white people are
killing --
BARNETT: Exactly.
PINSKY: Hang on, Gina. Lisa. From the audience? Yes, ma`am.
SEGMET CHUBAKA (ph), AUDIENCE MEMBER: First of all, you all need to leave Trump alone, OK? Because I am for Trump today and forever. Trump is all
about money.
[21:30:00] You guys are focusing on issues and we need to focus on world issues and not world problems and that is what he has been trying to do.
So, I cheer him up. And, you know, what he is in real estate and a bunch of us probably need some homes right now, losing their homes. I think he
can fix the problem. I am all for Trump.
BARNETT: Yes, he is also for bankruptcy three times.
CHUBAKA: You guys are focused on things that do not matter today. OK? About Mexican and racism. That have not something to do with anything. We
need to focus on the matter.
We need to focus on the matter. He can make this world a better place because he knows how to make money. He knows how to get money and he can
help us in this real estate trauma that we are in today.
PINSKY: So, what I am hearing -- what I am hearing is --
BARNETT: Did you say trauma?
PINSKY: Hang on, now. She fascinates me. What is your name?
CHUBAKA: Segmet Schubaka.
PINSKY: I am not sure I got it.
CHUBAKA: Segmet Chubaka.
PINSKY: Segment. Segment.
CHUBAKA: Segmet.
PINSKY: Segmet, you are expressing what I am hearing a lot of the people express, which is anger and frustration at the current situation --
CHUBAKA: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: -- Economic situation, the PC situation, politically correct speech, that nobody can just speak on anything. This is all frustrating.
You just like this guy is going out who has made a bunch of money himself and just bombastically saying whatever he wants, right? That is what you
are relating to.
CHUBAKA: No.
PINSKY: You are not really listening to what he is saying.
CHUBAKA: No. I have listened to what he said. He said a lot more greater things that nobody focused on, one great thing that he did today, and I
listen to him. And, he said that he could make this world a better financial place, which is what we need because we are really in debt. We
are really in debt. And, hey, if he can make all that money, I feel like he can do wonders for us. Who would want to live in damn crime world
today?
BARNETT: What proof has he given you? What proof has he given you? I can say I can make the world a better place. I can say I can fill your house
with rainbows and candies. It does not make a difference.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CHUBAKA: Like what I have said. Leave Donald Trump alone. I am for Donald Trump today and I bet you, he is going to make it. I bet you, with
everything he is going to make it --
CATHERWOOD: I am sure. I am sure.
CHUBAKA: I got his vote. And, you know what?
CATHERWOOD: Listen, I am sure Donald Trump --
CHUBAKA: That you need to vote for him, too.
CATHERWOOD: Ma`am, I am sure Donald Trump really wanted this Segmet, you know, support that was very important to him. But, I will say that the one
thing Segmet said that did make some sense is that, what he is saying today truly is not important because this is a man doing the best job he can
possible to win a primary with no hope of winning the popular vote.
The white vote -- the white vote on the republican ticket has slowly declined. Every four years, the white vote has declined for the
republicans, every year. He is not going to get --
PINSKY: He does not look like a white person.
CATHERWOOD: I know but he is not going to gain in a United States --
BARNETT: Exactly.
PINSKY: Probably a democrat, too. Are you democrat?
CHUBAKA: Yes, I am democrat.
PINSKY: See. He is getting mobilized a lot of people. Gina, what are you trying to say here? Go ahead.
LOUDON: You are absolutely right. I am watching the dynamics of this. And, Dr. Drew, you know my backgrounds in human development. He has no
motive to lie. His business has been attacked. His family has been attacked. And, I am not the biggest Trump fan, OK? But, what your
audience member said is absolutely the truth. He is pulling from segments of feminists, of democrats, the likes of which the Republican Party --
PINSKY: Gina, I just think people are angry. People are angry, angry, angry. He is tapped into that. You know what I mean?
HO: He tapped into that.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: It is like the mob mentality that he is having into.
CATHERWOOD: He is famous.
PINSKY: Yes, sir. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: First of all, I think Trump is a racist bastard --
BARNETT: Yey!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Because, you know what? He would not be nothing without our people because our people build his company. Our
people works hard for his company and, you know what, 90 percent of this country is our people, you know what I mean?
CATHERWOOD: Not like 90.
PINSKY: Well, but certainly a majority. Listen, a majority in this state. A majority in this state are Hispanic. Is that right? I mean that is a
fact.
HO: That is true.
PINSKY: So, listen, let me table -- what would be the word be, let us take a deep breath and then we will continue this conversation.
(LAUGHING)
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: And later on, as I have said, a savage act sends four women flying. It is all caught on tape. They lived to tell about it. We are
back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:33:56] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:37:58] TRUMP: We have to stop illegal immigration. We have to. We have to. Mexico, I respect the country. They are taking our jobs. They
are taking our manufacturing. They are taking our money. They are taking everything and they are killing us on the border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, EVP AND SPECIAL COUNSEL TO DONALD TRUMP: Mr. Trump never made any derogatorily disparaging remarks about Mexican immigrants. What
Donald Trump has done is he sparked a conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST OF "NEW DAY" PROGRAM: Is he doing what you said, which is sparking a conversation or is he feeding anger?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There you go.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: And, that is what I am saying. We are talking about Donald Trump, the latest lightning rod in the debate over race and racism. We have put a
poll out there. The question was, "Do you think Trump`s comments about immigrants are racist?" 42 percent, yes. 58 percent say, no. Back with
Judy, Vanessa, Mike, Gina on Skype, and Lisa still with us. Gina, your reaction to that poll?
LOUDON: It does not surprise me at all. In the polling I have done from my show. It has been very similar. And, I think it is because, first of
all, a lot of us are accepting as truth what we have been told in the media about what Trump said, rather than actually listening to his words.
If you listen, if you really listen to his words rather than what you have said by media, you will hear that he says, there are, meaning among the
illegals coming across the border, there are some criminals. There are some rapists. I do not know anyone who would disagree with that fact. So,
I do not see why this has been so blown out of proportion.
PINSKY: I will tell you what it is. I will tell you, it is us. It is us. We are angry. We are frustrated. He has tapped into it by creating a
scapegoat, by saying outrageous things.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: And it is us.
HO: That is right. We are creating this, because we are mad and we want an explanation for all the things that are wrong. And, that is --
PINSKY: She is angry. And, she wants some faith in somebody who say I am going to take you at it.
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: And, we are going to grow -- right, Segmet? That is what you want? You want somebody who puts a light on their head and leads the group
out of the mess for it.
HO: The scapegoat really helps with that, just having something or someone to blame for all of your problems. And, that is what he is having to.
[21:40:00] CATHERWOOD: But, just one segment ago, I said, I do not feel like Donald Trump is a racist. But, I try to believe that. I am a
Mexican-American, but it is unfair to also say that what he said, ma`am, in the way that he worded it was not -- a bit in appropriate. I think for a
presidential candidate --
PINSKY: What do we do? What do we do?
CATHERWOOD: The exact comment was -- His exact comment was Mexico is sending us -- there are criminals, rapists and murderers.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
CATEHRWOOD: He then had the caveat of "I am sure there are some good ones out there."
BARNETT: I assume. I assume there are some good ones.
BLOOM: He apologized and he said I said exactly what I meant.
PINSKY: And, Lisa, we have -- two weeks ago after Charleston, we had all these conversations about the subtleties of racism. Here are outrageous
statements. And, we are like, "I am not sure." Yes, sir. What do you say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Saying, they are, not there are, right? There is a difference.
PINSKY: Right. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Also, one thing we have to think about is, is that Trump is a Businessman. He is not a politician. He is not here to
make anything better for any of us, except for himself. He is an opportunist. He is a bankruptcy -- a multibankruptcy real estate mogul,
who is still a billionaire. Do you know anybody who has gone into bankruptcy and retained all that money?
PINSKY: That is not so uncommon for developers. That is simply a fact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: But, it is continuous.
BARNETT: But, it is shady.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: And, in this case, he is running for an office that is going to lead us as an American President --
PINSKY: Got it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: And that is not one way to lead us. He has lead us into debt and then show us how to get out it have and keep all your
money. That is not honest and that is not real.
PINSKY: Gina. Gina, what do you say?
LOUDON: His business has taken major, major hits for this. And, let us not forget, Hillary Clinton made very similar statements, Dr. Drew, before
she flip-flopped on the issue of illegal immigration and nobody is calling her to tap.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: He said that illegal immigrants were criminal and rapist.
HO: That is right.
(CROSSTALK)
CATEHRWOOD: Very true. I think that they argument is getting very blurry, because this is not about the stance on illegal immigration nor is it about
any other candidates` stance on illegal immigration. This is about how you can interpret Donald Trump`s comments and how they affect Mexican people
whether they are Mexican-Americans or people of Mexico--
PINSKY: And, by the way, Mexicans -- you know, Hispanic people should be very conservative values. I am surprised they do not back more
conservative candidates, but this may or may not work in their favor.
I want to throw another issue into the mix here. Joining me is Mark Groubert, author of "Rehab Nation." Now, Mark, you make historical analogy
to what is happening with Trump`s remark and what social media and the mob does to people who use language that is non-PC or unpopular.
MARK GROUBERT, AUTHOR OF "REHAB NATION": Thanks, Dr. Drew. The analogy that I was making with you last week was about the red scare in communism
back in the `50s, and how the movement to find communist in the `50s ended up destroying people`s lives the same way the smear about racism is ruining
people`s lives today.
PINSKY: So, in a way, it is using the mob mentality to help -- to force people to not get work and lose their jobs because they are attached to
some -- what we call it, ideology that is considered completely unacceptable today, right? It is the same thing.
GROUBERT: Absolutely. I mean there is a communist under every bed in America in the 1950s. Joseph McCarthy, a senator from Wisconsin, went
around with an imaginary list smearing everyone as a communist or communist sympathizer, the Hollywood ten were the top actors and screenwriters in
Hollywood, who went to jail. In the 1950s, simply for knowing a communist or reading a book about communists or seeing a movie related to communists.
It is very similar to the climate today, Dr. Drew, in America.
PINSKY: I want to get -- Mark, thank you for that comment. Lisa, do you understand what he is saying?
BLOOM: So, cannot call people racist when they say an entire group of people are criminals and rapist.
PINSKY: No, you can, but can you necessarily -- even Brian Williams, who is not being accused of being a rapist. He is being accused of not being
completely honest, job, out.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: So, with the mob takes jobs away from people --
BLOOM: I do not think that was the mob. I think that was NBC.
BARNETT: Right, worried about the bottom line.
BLOOM: He is a man. And, by the way, he is back now. He is in NBC.
PINSKY: But, did you get what Mark is saying?
BLOOM: I mean, the thing that we should not call out somebody for racism -
PINSKY: We are not saying that.
BLOOM: When they makes explicitly racist remark we have ever heard in a presidential campaign, at lwast from the last 10 or 20 years. It is
ridicule.
CATEHRWOOD: Ms. Bloom, your points are well taken, but I think what the gentleman on the phone and Dr. Drew are trying to say, and I agree with
completely the court of public opinion has never been more powerful and more strong when we have something like Twitter, 24-hour news cycles,
magazines with no journalistic credibility and no need for journalist credibility.
PINKY: It is great, if you could see --
BLOOM: Power to the people.
PINSKY: Yes. Right. But be able to speak your mind without a mob getting blood.
BLOOM: If he speaks to those rapist, he is going to get called on it and he should.
PINSKY: Called on -- I agree with you, called on it.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
HO: And, he is going to be held to the higher regard because he is running for president. If he is just talking -- if Donald Trump running the Miss
America enterprise, that is different. But if he is talking as Donald Trump I am the presidential. He has to be held to a higher regard.
PINSKY: But, I completely agree with you, but again, let us remember, he is losing his relationship with NBC. He is losing his jobs. He is losing
his --
[21:45:00] HO: Maybe he should.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Whoa! Whoa! One at a time. Vanessa?
BARNETT: There are labels that say, made in Mexico. But, you are saying, they are still our jobs. And, they are rapist and killers.
HO: Right.
BARNETT: That is asinine. Like, no, we cannot support you. Yes, you should lose your clothing line.
PINSKY: Here is what is interesting. We had a really productive conversation about racism in this room, was it two weeks ago after
Charleston?
BARNETT: Yes.
PINSKY: I mean it was a very sad time. We took it very seriously. We have to roll it back., everybody. Roll it back. We are getting all spun
by Mr. Trump and some of his polemics, some of his antics.
And, we are scapegoating and people are getting towards scapegoats, really think about what you are doing here. Racism exists. Racism is a problem.
To really allow these inflammatory statements to put that conversation away was a mistake.
By the same token to say because these things are inflammatory, there is no truth in anything he is saying also mistakes. Everybody, let cool. Find a
middle ground. I am chanting this, all the time in all my programs. There is got to be a middle ground for us all to navigate. Keep the cooler heads
on and think clearly.
Coming up, we will show you how a horrifying video ends. You have seen it. We showed it to you. After the break, we are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Instagram, Twitter and Facebook feeds. Back with Judy, Vanessa,
Mike. Vanessa?
BARNETT: I have a naked guy. I feel like I always get the naked people, or like - penis people. So this one is a body cam video that went viral.
This guy, he is naked. He is running around. And, so, it was the fourth of July in New Mexico and a motorist called police. So, they see this guy
running around naked. Police respond and here is what happens. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Get back over here. OK. Get back over here. Let us get on the grass, OK? Ok, that is my car. No one is in there. How
were you poisoned? Sir? Sir. Hey! Get out of there. Hey! 47PD. He stolen my unit. He has taken off eastbound in my unit running lights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: This officer did not want to help me. I am poisoned. That is why I brought the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: That is an off duty.
BARNETT: The naked guy said he was poisoned and the cop did not want to help him, so he said, he took the car, drove to the hospital, was
apprehended by another police officer and he faces charges, which is kind of sad. You do not know.
PINSKY: OK. Well, he might have been poisoned but it was some --
CATHERWOOD: It was self-inflicted poison.
PINSKY: That is right.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: That he did not say.
PINSKY: Mike, go ahead.
CATHERWOOD: So, last night the Miss U.S.A pageant aired on the Reelz-TV channel and now Miss Rhode Island is being just pummeled on Twitter for her
epic fail in the Q&A section. Check it out.
(LAUGHING)
TARA CONNER, FORMER MISS U.S.A.: Recently comedian Jerry Seinfeld spoke out against political correctness in our culture. Do you think political
correctness is hurting or helping this country and why?
ANEA GARCIA, MISS RHODE ISLAND, MISS U.S.A. PAGEANT CANDIDATE: That is a very good question. I think that it is a balance of both. We definitely
need -- I am sorry. Will you please repeat the question once more?
I think that it is a balance of both. We need the people to remind us, especially politicians, to remind us what to do right and what to do wrong
and it is never --
ALEX WEHRLY, FORMER MISS WISCONSIN: Time is up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I saw this yesterday. What you do not see is she stood frozen for a good 20 seconds. And that is --
CATEHRWOOD: Which seems like 20 minutes.
PINSKY: I know. And, Mike, that is not her not being intellectually gifted. That is her in a panic.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: When you block like that, that is panic. I have been there.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: Yes. I was going to say Drew, unless you have been -- if you have been in front of live cameras --
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: Yes.
CATEHRWOOD: -- unless you are Regis where you have been doing it for 80 years, it always makes your heart change.
PINSKY: Listen. Yes. I was once on the "Today" show last week and I had a panic and I blocked just like that. And, Matt Lauer look at me like, Are
you OK?" And, I thought, "Oh, I got to get my medication."
CATEHRWOOD: I was on Sam Reuben`s show on Reelz channel and I vomited in my own mouth. We were going to live TV. I chugged a soda there, like
five, four, three -- and you panic.
PINSKY: Do not judge this poor woman. So, go ahead, Judy.
CATEHRWOOD: She is really hot, though.
HO: So I have an update on a story that we talked about last week. It was an unlikely reunion between a robbery suspect and a judge. It is received
7 million views. Watch this.
PINSKY: Wow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Hi, Mr. Booth. You are back. This time, you are charged with a burglary. OK, Mr. Booth, I have a question for you.
MR. BOOTH: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Did you go to nautilus for middle school?
MR. BOOTH: Oh my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: I am sorry to see you there. I always wondered what happened to you, sir.
MR. BOOTH: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Mr. Booth, I hope you are able to change your ways. Good luck to you!
MR. BOOTH: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Good luck to you, sir. I hope you are able to come out of this OK and just lead a lawful life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: They were friend in middle school.
HO: Yes. They have been actually in school since elementary and he was a good student. He wanted to actually be a neurosurgeon. Now, he is still
in jail and owes $43,000. He cannot pay it and that was set by the judge, his former friend and classmate, Wendy.
PINSKY: All right we got it. This is a heartbreaker. All right, we got to go. We are going to talk about this video. We have been showing you
that sent four women flying. Unbelievably no one died. Back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. Now I am warning you. This video you are about to see is quite disturbing. We have been showing a little bit of pieces of it.
An ongoing feud between two groups of women in St. Louis, apparently led to that.
Police say none of the victims were seriously injured. Thank God. But police and U.S. Marshals are still searching for the 18-year-old woman they
believe was behind the wheel. I mean, when you see it you cannot believe that there was not any fatalities or at least serious injuries.
My goodness, and she is still on the loose. Yes. We are all kind of holding our breath here. All right, everybody, thank you so much. Thank
you to the audience members who participated tonight. Very, very important to hear from you, guys.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Thank you, panelists. If you DVR this program and you can watch us anytime. Be sure to check us out. And, also check out our after show on
Facebook where we gather and talk either Trump or Cosby. Maybe Trump today.
BARNETT: Yes.
[22:00:00] PINSKY: Thank you all for watching. We will see you next time.
END
