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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Manhunt for Escaped Drug Lord; Iran Nuke Deal: Six Hours from Deadline; New 24 Hour War Room to Combat Baltimore Violence; Behind A Notorious Mexican Drug Kingpin. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 13, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[12:00:39] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Ashleigh Banfield today.

We begin this hour with a massive manhunt in Mexico for one of the world's most dangerous drug lords, Joaquin Guzman, also known as "El Chapo," breaking out of prison for a second time. Here's what we know about his brazen escape from a maximum security prison about 60 miles west of Mexico City. The leader of the Sinaloa Cartel made his way out of this fortified complex through a tunnel that begins in the shower area of his cell. The tunnel runs out of the prison, underneath farm land for about a mile to this small cinder block house you're about to see. The tunnel is outfitted with lighting, ventilation and even a modified motorcycle on tracks that was likely used to remove dirt during the excavation. His whereabouts now are anyone's guest.

Joining me right now is CNN's Polo Sandoval live from outside the prison's front gate.

So what does this manhunt look like?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, there are police everywhere in and out of the facility here actually just west of Mexico City. Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, a man who was short in stature but remains a giant in the criminal underworld, and that's why it's so important to track him down. As this truck goes by us, I want you to see more or less where that tunnel is believed to be. It's actually under the barbed wire fence that you see off in the distance, that farm line that you just mentioned just to the right, and authorities say that this very powerful man emerged in what was a very simple cinder block home that was under construction Saturday into Sunday. And so what we're seeing is a partial perimeter that's been set up in and around the prison facility here.

At the same time we're also seeing several checkpoints that have been set up. It's really very similar to what we witnessed really in Dannemora, New York, for example. Cars are being searched. At the same time, these officers, these federal officers with the Mexican government are doing their job knowing that there is a very real possibility that Guzman already slipped out of their reach, may possibly even be in his home state of Sinaloa. That would be a problem, too, Fred, because he has tremendous support in the area. To some individuals there, in his home state, he's seen as a robin hood, giving resources to that community. Plus the mountainous terrain would also allow for several places to hide.

So, again, still a very fluid situation we're noticing here only about an hour's drive west of Mexico City. Clearly they don't expect to give up any time soon. But again, they do continue to work to try to track down this dangerous guy right now.

Fred.

WHITFIELD: So, Polo, clearly officials are trying to interview a whole lot of people. We know that many prison guards have also been questioned. But now what about at that, you know, partially built farmland cinder block house? There was construction there. You just mentioned that. What about people who were part of that construction site? Is anyone talking? Is anyone saying anything?

SANDOVAL: Well, you know, Fred, clearly that's going to be a very key part of this investigation. What's interesting is that there's actually some construction work that's being done just over my shoulder, part of some of the infrastructure that's being fixed in and around the area. So some of these individual likely were carting some of this soil and dirt in and out of the area, likely blended in with some of the construction crews that we've seen all day. You saw a huge dump truck drive right past us a few seconds ago. Officials do believe that some of the help that was working to try to get Guzman out of prison likely blended in just fine for weeks as they were trying to really tunnel him out of this prison.

So that will be a top priority to try to speak to investigators. Now, specifics have not been -- have not been released. We do expect federal prosecutors to host a press conference later this evening, possibly releasing more information. But I can tell you, though, the last thing I should mention here, Fred, just as authorities suspect that Guzman had help on the outside, they also believe that he may have also had help on the inside. At least 18 guards at this facility are at nearby -- in nearby Mexico City right now speaking to federal prosecutors, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Polo Sandoval, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

Let's talk more about this. Joining me right now to talk about the search for El Chapo is Joseph Lopez, live from Chicago, an attorney who has represented many cartel members, and from Mexico City is Ana Maria Salazar, a Latin American political analyst and radio host.

[12:05:09] Good to see both of you.

JOSEPH LOPEZ, ATTORNEY FOR DRUG CARTEL MEMBERS: Good morning.

WHITFIELD: So, Ana, to you first. You heard Polo say that, of course, a lot of people are being questioned, those inside the prison system. Now the question is, how far up might have gone in terms of those who may have been complicit or helped facilitate this very sophisticated escape. What's your view? ANA MARIA SALAZAR, LATIN AMERICAN POLITICAL ANALYST: How far up, how

far outside, inside, up and down. Clearly, the information that was required to be able to construct this tunnel is information that is not necessarily in the hands of prison wardens. Not in the hands of people who are -- who operate within the prisons. This is information that probably came from either higher ups, from contractors, from former public officials. I mean this clearly is information that came from somewhere else. I'm not only talking about the prison plans, layout, but also the video layout because what we're finding out is that where -- the hole where he broke out, that part of the bathroom where he broke out, it just happened that the video cameras could not see right at that point.

So it means that there was very, very sophisticated information that was provided to El Chapo's operators and it also is telling us that El Chapo Guzman continues to be a very powerful figure within his organization. Some people thought that it had -- his presence had been weakened because he was in jail. Well, clearly that's not the case.

WHITFIELD: And do you believe influential even as it pertains to, say, the administration, the presidential administration? Are you even saying that possibly that kind of complicity even goes as high as that, Ana?

SALAZAR: Well, we don't know, but we do know that clearly if it wasn't complicity, it was extreme negligence. And I'm sure, you know, it could be negligence to the point where there's definitely going to be political implications. But we just don't know right now. So what we can say is that the information that was used was clearly information that was not in the hands of the prison warden.

WHITFIELD: All right, so, Joseph, help us understand just how influential. I mean everyone has said that he is a masterful manipulator and, of course, he's also become kind of a robin hood in some communities. But what kind of resources are at his fingertip, whether he's inside or out of the jail?

LOPEZ: Well, this is a guy who built an organization. He's got planes, he's got boats, he's got cars, he's got motorcycles and, most importantly, he's got a lot of money. And with a lot of money you can do a lot of things in Mexico. I mean, this guy in Sinaloa is almost a folk hero in -- in the state of Sinaloa. People love him. People hate him. But for the most part, people are going to protect him. And if he gets into Sinaloa and he goes up to his mountain top hacienda, there's only going to be one way to get him, and that would be an armed invasion.

And I think that the Mexican government is going to have a hard time putting their hands on this man. They're going to have a hard time taking him and capturing him and bringing him to justice in Mexico. I don't see it happening. I think that in the end there might be a shootout and he may wind up like some of the other cartel leaders have down in Columbia and be shot and killed by the federal police. It's hard to say.

But I don't think this time he's going to go as peacefully as he went last time. I think he'll be more well armed. I think he'll be more well protected. This man knows how to move a lot of different things. That is a guy that's been building tunnels and using all kinds of sophisticated, logistical means to move all kinds of drugs into the United States. He knows how to move. He knows how to get around. He's got a complete system, an underground system of people that can help him and he's on the run and I don't think they're going to catch him.

WHITFIELD: All right, Joseph Lopez, Ana Maria Salazar, thanks so much to both of you. We'll leave it there.

All right, up next, today could be the day diplomats tying up loose ends on an Iran nuclear deal, but could the whole thing still unravel?

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[12:12:28] WHITFIELD: All right, we're just six hours away from the deadline to reach a nuclear deal with Iran and CNN has learned that one of the final sticking points for a deal on Iran's nuclear program is the wording of a United Nations Security Council resolution. Diplomats from Britain, China, France, Russia, the U.S. and Germany are back at the table in Vienna talk with Iranian negotiators.

CNN's Nic Robertson is at the talks and joins me live.

So bring us up to date, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, I think this morning everyone expected this deal would be concluded today, would come in today being told that there were two or three sticking points, but the impression was created from all sides. These would-be -- these could be overcome.

The reality is where we stand today, right now, late this afternoon here in Vienna is, the talks could well easily go on late into the night and the deadline may even be blown through and we could be looking at tomorrow before there is an agreement. This issue, Iran has said that it wants an arms embargo, a U.N. Security Council imposed arms embargo that was put in place, designed to bring Iran to the negotiating table over the nuclear issue in the first place. It will not sign the broader nuclear agreement until that arms embargo has been lifted. They have support on that from China and from Russia. But that's something that Secretary Kerry has opposed until now.

The notion would be that once an agreement is formulated and agreed here, it very quickly goes to U.N. Security Council for a new U.N. resolution. So the Iranians would be looking for wording in that resolution that would fulfill their desire to have that arms embargo lifted. That looks at the moment as if it's a step too far. Possible military dimensions, which is the language used to refer to the question over whether Iran has used nuclear technology to develop a weapon. That is also, we understand, a sticking issue.

The Iranians say it just requires political will on the U.S. side to resolve this. And the Iranian foreign minister, just in the last couple of minutes tweet, "if there is a deal, we'll win." But he also said if -- "if there isn't a deal, then we all lose." This really is going down to the wire, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So it sounds like everybody there really wants a deal to be made. And even if it goes past midnight, you've already mentioned that it will extend into the next day. But then with that resolution or the wording still being worked out potentially, are we talking about yet more days to come before there really is a final look at this so- called deal?

[12:15:03] ROBERTSON: Yes, it's very hard to see. I mean, on the 30th of June, that was the original deadline here. Then it got extended by seven days to July 7. Then extended by three days to July 10. Then extended by three days again to July 13. So the fact that we've blown through deadlines and they keep get extended, if this one gets extended a little, I don't think anyone would be surprised.

But what we heard from the Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, when he arrived for the talks this morning, he said that no deal is perfect, and perhaps that's a message for everyone here that not everyone's going to get what they want. But he also said, if there are further negotiations, they cannot and should not be lengthy. The implication there is that there really is the possibility that this could go longer and even get into another step of talks at a later date.

Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Nic Robertson, thanks so much, in Vienna.

All right, up next, Baltimore's new interim police commissioner's first big move, setting up a 24-hour war room to fight the surge in homicides and other violent crimes.

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WHITFIELD: Major cities across the U.S. are stuffing a sharp rise in violence and murder compared with the same period a year ago. Chicago remains number one with more than 200 homicides so far this year. But Baltimore is not far behind. The city has been wracked with bloodshed since April when the death of Freddie Gray in police custody erupted in riots and looting.

The city's killing surge continued this weekend. Seven people were shot to death since Friday, bringing Baltimore's homicides to 163 for the year. The unrelenting crime wave is taking a toll on the city. Last week, Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake abruptly sacked Police Commissioner Anthony Batts, just three years on the job. His interim replacement, Kevin Davis, said he is setting up a round-the-clock war room of federal, state, and local law enforcement to get ahead of these killings.

[12:20:26] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN DAVIS, INTERIM BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: We need to just come together in a singular huddle and make sure that we don't break that huddle until we start solving some of these violent crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Former New York City detective and CNN law enforcement analyst Harry Houck joining us now from New York.

Good to see you.

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Hi.

WHITFIELD: So what do you suppose is behind this most recent, you know, surge in homicides, in violent crimes in Baltimore?

HOUCK: Well, probably a fact is that the bad guys probably feel more empowered right now as a result of the police officers holding back on -- you know, actually doing their job, being proactive, let's say, not so much doing their job. And, you know, we're seeing that in cities all over the country now, too. Same thing here in New York, you know, we're seeing more gun violence now like we are seeing in Baltimore.

And -- but Baltimore is virtually at a state of anarchy now and that police department has to do something to reduce this crime. And one of the big things they need to do is to let their police officers know that they are behind them 100 percent when they act properly out there. As long as a police officer is acting in good faith and the mayor comes out and the police department tells their officers that, then maybe we can get back to doing this kind of policing that's actually required in this city.

WHITFIELD: So, in your view, how does the interim police commissioner do that? How does he convey that message that you speak of?

HOUCK: Well, basically, you've got to go out and you've got to tell your officers that. You know, you know, he should have said something on the days (ph) when he was giving this speech here and the mayor should have came out and said, listen, we want to back you police officers when you act properly out there. All right? Get rid of the rhetoric every time a white police officer is involved with a black perpetrator. As long as police officers act in good faith and -- and let me add, not criminally, but acting in good faith out there, then the police officers will start to come back and start reacting to crime the way they should.

WHITFIELD: So what about this so-called war room? This collaboration of federal authorities and local authorities. How do you suppose this might help? What is the strategizing that's taking place there in Baltimore with this war room?

HOUCK: Well, basically -- yes, well, basically this is going to be a patch. You know, unless the police department gets the resources required to be able to reduce that crime there, all they're going to be able to do is go and target certain areas. They're going to have a 24-hour war room, seven days a week, OK, we had a shooting here, let's flood that area with police officers, let's start harassing the gangs, let's start looking for gang's activity out there, let's start doing some more stop and frisk. But the problem is, our police officers are going to say to themselves, listen, I'm not -- if I stop this guy and he resists arrest and he gets seriously injured or even killed, now am I going to have to go through the same thing that we had to go through before? And that's a big problem. If the department and law enforcement and the courts will start charging people the way they're supposed to, for resisting arrest, that's another thing that will also add to being able to reduce the crime out there on the street.

WHITFIELD: All right, Harry Houck, we'll leave it there. Thanks so much. Good to see you.

HOUCK: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: All right, up next, how did Mexico's most notorious drug lord simply walk out of prison yet again? Maybe a little insight into his background and connections will give you some idea, next.

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[12:27:10] WHITFIELD: The hunt for Mexico's most-wanted man, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, may be a long and difficult search. The first time the kingpin escaped from prison back in 2001, it took 13 years to track him down. Well this weekend, Guzman made a daring escape from this maximum security prison about 60 miles west of Mexico City through a mile-long tunnel and now no one knows where he is. CNN's Sara Ganim takes a look at Guzman's notorious career as the leader of one of the world's most dangerous cartels.

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SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They call him "El Chapo" or "shorty" for his small 5'6" frame, but his legend is enormous and now the world's most-powerful and deadly drug trafficking kingpin has broken out of prison in Mexico, again. Joaquin Guzman is the notorious drug boss who runs the Sinaloa Cartel, widely believed to be the biggest supplier of heroin and cocaine in the United States. Authorities say this time he escaped through a hole in the shower area of the Altiplano Prison.

MONTE ALEJANDRO RUBIDO, NATIONAL SECURITY COMMISSION (through translator): The tunnel leads to a vertical passage about ten meters deep and it had a ladder and stairs. This tunnel has PVC tubing, ventilation and lighting.

GANIM: His latest escaped adding to El Chapo's legend. In Mexico he's a towering figure of intrigue, the subject of books, songs and folklore. And he's wanted on both sides of the border. In the U.S. on federal trafficking and organized crime charges. His cartel notorious for tunneling drugs under the U.S./Mexican border. In fact, U.S. officials wanted him extradited, fearing exactly what happened -- that he'd pull off another escape.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), TEXAS: El Chapo Guzman escaped captivity, prison, in 2001. He has 12 years left to his sentence. But I'm concerned about that happening again in Mexico.

GANIM: Born into a poor family in the Sinaloa state when the drug trade was evolved, Guzman amassed a powerful empire, one that he continued running from behind bars after his first arrest in 1993. His reputation only grew as he spent 13 years on the run after escaping from prison in 2001, sneaking out in a laundry cart in a plot that allegedly cost him $2.5 million in bribes.

He was caught and rearrested just last year at this resort in Mazatlan, in his home state of Sinaloa. Now a massive manhunt for the cartel leader is underway yet again.

Sara Ganim, CNN, New York.

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WHITFIELD: All right, joining me now to talk about El Chapo, the criminal mastermind, is CNN contributor and criminologist Casey Jordan.

[12:30:02] All right, good to see you, Casey.

So you're a believer the this tunnel plan was hatched just before or maybe even at the time of El Chapo's imprisonment. So this speaks to, you know, this serious head start.