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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

DOJ: Guzman Is "World's Most Powerful Drug Lord"; "El Chapo" Escapes From Prison Through Ventilated Mile-Long Tunnel; Mexico's President Vows To Recapture Guzman; Dow Nears 18,000 On News Of Greece Deal; Jury To Deliberate Holmes' Fate This Week; Obama Commuts Sentences Of 46 Drug Offenders. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 13, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:03] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN GUEST HOST: So you're a believer of that this tunnel plan was hatched just before or maybe even at the time of El Chapo's imprisonment. So this speaks to, you know, this serious head start, is it your feeling with so much outside help. But he is, you know far away, maybe in some -- you know, deep, remote portion of Mexico or maybe even out of country?

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Entirely, entirely possible. I don't think we can underestimate the confidence of this man. He is very rich and he's very capable of bribing anyone.

So this plan is probably been on the works since he became reincarcerated a year ago after having been on the lam for 13 or 14 years. It's not like he was going to sit still. From the time he was put in that prison, I'm sure the tunnel was started to be dug by the construction crew outside. And his plan was hatched.

He didn't just pop out off a hole and go -- where do I go next? I'm sure, within 24 hours, he was whisked away completely.

And this time, he may not stick around Mexico. He may go overseas, although if he stays in Mexico, he has the ability to bribe anyone and stay hidden for a very long time.

WHITFIELD: And is it your feeling that to capture him this time at least for the Mexican Government, the only way to really kind of stop, cease his power is, if cornered, it may be death, as supposed to try to reincarcerate?

JORDAN: Yeah. He does not like to be in prison. And trust me, he's been operating or participating in this cartel the entire year that he has been there.

But I think the biggest problem we need to consider is that the Mexican Government is in over their heads. We have passed the tipping point. The current president has promised he would be a cartel fighter. But this isn't just an embarrassment. That's too soft of word. This is a huge tragedy. It really shows that the bad guys, the gangsters, the cartel leaders, they're not faced by any law enforcement efforts. They have government people in their payrolls.

And the DEA basically draw the parallel between his escape, and imagine if the Osama Bin Laden had escaped who was on the lam. We should not underestimate the power he has. And if they need to reach out and get help from the DEA or other international law enforcement drug fighting communities if they're going to catch this fight (ph)...

WHITFIELD: And you think that might happen this time because, you know, the U.S. tred to assist once before and perhaps pride stood on the way as to why Mexico said we got this. We've got him in this maximum security facility and he's not going anywhere. But now, this time, it would mean Mexico either having to reach out to the U.S. or when the U.S. extends it help, it would have to say yes and would they?

JORDAN: I would hope that they would stop they've -- trying to stay safe and accept the help that the government, the U.S. government has offered. You know, we wanted Guzman. We wanted him in the United States.

And in fairness, he was there first. But we were far more confident that we could keep and control him than the Mexican Government and it's proved true. We're not going to sit here and glowed (ph) about the fact that we were right that they weren't going to be able to hold him.

We want to make sure this man is recaptured and held and put in a place. We're not only, can't he escape. But the -- his influence on the outside ceases completely. They're going to have to clean house of their prison systems from the top-down if they think that they can keep this from happening again.

WHITFIELD: All right, Casey Jordan, thanks so much. Good to see you.

JORDAN: Always great to be here, thank you Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up next. Some good, encouraging news out of Greece, make your wallet or maybe even your portfolio a little fatter today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:43] WHITFIELD: All right, the major financial markets are all up today. Presumably the favorable reaction to a deal to keep Greece in the European Union and to provide the cash drop nation with another bailout.

CNN Business Correspondent Alison Kosik is at near at stock and exchange.

So Alison, investors apparently like what they see out of the Europe today?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yeah, you know, Fredricka nothing like a little bail out of $96 billion that spark a rally.

You know, the gains, the gains that we see of a 182 point higher on the deal. Those gains show relief that Greece finally came to an agreement. An "Agreekment" as many are calling it, an agreement with its creditors. Greek, its financial meltdown is really one of the big reasons why we've seen so much volatility in the markets lately.

The possibility of Greece tumbling out of the Euro zone has really rattled the market because there was so much uncertainly about what it would mean for Europe and the global economy.

Now when you think about it, the Greece is a very small economy. About 2 percent of Europe, about 0.3 percent of the world economy, but whoa, what drama it cost over the past several months, Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: And so, is there, you know, a lot of confidence this just might be a done deal?

KOSIK: Oh, you know, anything could happen. This is one of those things where the Greek drama could continue. I mean, when you think about, it still has to get approval in the Greek parliament, it still needs approval by other 18 Euro Zone leaders, you know, anything could happen. But you're seeing the confidence here in the market that they think that this will actually happened.

You know, what's funny is many are joking that unless that Tsipras, the Greek Prime Minister is what they call "agreediot" (ph) because this proposal that has been agreed on is much worst than the program that the Greek had to go to the polls and vote on. And that elected Tsipras encourage them to vote against.

So many people are actually calling elected Tsipras, "agreediot" (ph) today. So you're seeing lots of new words coming out of these negations. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right. And then your state side what do we think might happen in term of the Feds raising interest rates?

KOSIK: And that really as a question because even with everything going on with Greece, everything going on the China. Most really are betting that the Fed will go ahead and raise Greece leaders this years because if you look some minutes from it's meeting in June. This minute actually came out last week.

They show that they're prepared to do this later, this year in fact, in September. Because you look at the written economic data coming out at the U.S. it's improving. Job, it is getting better, even wages are beginning to rise, I'll be very slowly though.

Although the meeting was before the Greek negotiations feel apart and before the stock market in China tanked. Many -- do you believe the domestic economy is holding its own? And in the end really, the Fed is making its decision on when to raise rate. It's really data dependent. And that data, Fredricka is showing that there is consistent improvement in the U.S. economy. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right, Alison Kosik thanks so much.

All right, all are one step closer to a verdict in the Colorado Theater shooting trial as closing arguments begin tomorrow. The jury faced with the top decision.

[12:39:57] Who to believe will grade the prosecution and the defenses case.

(COMMERICIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right jurors in the Colorado movie theater shooting trial have entered 47 days in court, over two and a half months. But it is day 48 tomorrow and that will be so crucial for them. That's when closing arguments will begin and then deliberations, guilty verdict for James Holmes would mean the start of another long phase of this trial and the same jury would also decide whether he will live or die.

Holmes pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. Ultimately he chose not to testify. But the jury still heard plenty from him.

The prosecution presented 22 hours of video taped interviews with the court appointed psychiatrist recorded two years after Holmes shot and killed 12 people and injured 70 more on July 20th 2012.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any doubt that you would end up killing a lot of people?

JAMES HOLMES: No. The dead can't repaired, or come back to life, or be normal again. So, it's kind of irreversible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the wounded?

HOLMES: They're like, collateral damage I guess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right Ana Cabrera has been following this. She joins me now from Denver. Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey they Fred.

[12:44:59] Today is just a day to prepare for those closing arguments, tomorrow we know that the jurors are not in court. But the lawyers and the judge are going over the jury's instructions time to make them tweaks to the wording to clarify or simplify the legal moras as the jurors are going to take up some 165 counts and determine ultimately whether Holmes is guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity.

Now, tomorrow as you mentioned is the closing arguments and we now know that each side, the defense in the prosecution will get two hours a piece to make their argument to leave that lasting impression on the jurors who will heading (ph) to deliberation, first thing Wednesday morning, that is the latest word.

And they're considering first degree murder, attempted murder as well as an explosives charge. And they could perhaps also consider lesser charges including second degree murder and manslaughter, Fred. WHITFIELD: And how is it that the defense went about trying to prove that Holmes was insane at the time?

CABRERA: Well, remember here in Colorado, it is the prosecution's burden to prove Holmes was sane at the time of the shooting, but the defense did just wrap up its side of the case just last week. And they did present two mental health experts whom they had asked to do mental evaluations of Holmes and who told the jurors they believed he was insane at that time of the crime.

One of those experts was a specialist in schizophrenia and she was last to take the stand for the defense and talked about how Holmes was suffering from a delusional system she said that really made him believe he had to carry out a mission to kill to increase his own self-worth. She said he was detached from reality. He really don't have control of his actions and was unable to understand morally what was right from wrong.

The defense also put together string of videos showing Holmes in jail after he had been arrested in which he acted at a very bizarre manner. In one video, he was standing on a bunk that cell backwards a couple of times and another video, he's lying naked in his cell spreading feces on the walls. And they emphasized that he was taken to the hospital for a psychotic break in November of 2012.

So, about four months after the shooting proof the defense argue that Holmes has a severe mental illness, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ana Cabrera, thank you so much, I appreciate that. Well, so, for the legal view. Let's bring in now a HLN legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson, and criminal defense attorney Philip Holloway. Good to see both of you guys.

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I'm glad ...

(Crosstalk)

WHITFIELD: Hi, we should be in the same room. We're going to make arrangements next time.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN, LEGAL ANALYST: It's always nice.

WHITFIELD: I know. All right, so Joey, to you first, especially since Ana was talking about this video that helps substantiate that he was acting very strangely in his cell, but that doesn't necessarily speak to being insane, does it? How did his defense try to prove that he was insane?

JACKSON: Sure. It's a great question because we have to remember that the critical issue, Fredricka is at the time of the offense. So, you can point me the videos that show that I'm knocking my head against the wall on a jail cell, I'm falling backwards, another when I'm spreading feces and I'm engaging all other types of behavior. But, what the defense needs to do was to appoint it and focus on the critical issue at hand and that is when he engaged in the carnage that he did. When he killed 12 people, when he injured 70, many of whom will never walk again and whose lives are been altered, how was he there? And what they did in doing that was the defense brought into psychiatrist to suggest to the jury and not only to suggest but say out right that he was mentally insane.

Not only mentally ill, as we know that meaning today, but that he was insane, of course Fredricka, that was -- I shouldn't say rebuff because the prosecution first put on two witnesses that said experts, that said that he was sane. However, the defense no surprise, the two experts have their own that said, you know what, he absolutely did not know hat he was doing. He could not distinguish right from wrong. They'll be relying upon that very clearly in their closing arguments tomorrow.

WHITFIELD: Interesting So, Philip it really is a battle of the experts, isn't it? Because, both sides presenting their experts either he is mentally insane, mentally unstable but in the end, juries have to go with believability of these experts. How do they do that?

HOLLOWAY: Well, they're going to obviously listen very carefully to the words of each expert. But, one thing that they're going to also do in addition to listening to these experts, they have the actual words of James Holmes with them in the jury room. Even though he did not testify, Fred, he said and stated unit (ph) 1128 that his mind was broken. He tried to fix it but essentially that he couldn't and what that shows is that he knew right from wrong at the time that he committed this offense.

In fact, this same states exhibit which is a detailed plan of how he wanted to build about conducting this attack and this mass murder, he mailed to his treating psychiatrist the same day of the shootings. And he admitted that he tried to attempt -- he tried to keep this from his psychiatrists that shows a consciousness of guilt, someone who knows that what they've done is wrong. And that's why I think that at the end of the day, the jury will convict him of murder.

[12:50:03] JACKSON: Fredricka, I agree and disagree and here is why certainly Phil points to what he has. You could call it a manifesto, you could call it a document, but it's very important that we not cherry pick certain aspects in the same document that Philip talks to that speak to his premeditation where he plots out, "I'm not going to do this at an airport. I'd rather do it a movie theater."

You know, he even puts out an estimated time of arrival. It will take three minutes to the police to get there but there are also musings and rumblings in pantings (ph) where he's saying "Why, why, why? And "What's the meaning of life?"

And so clearly, if...

WHITFIELD: But what is it when you have both if you have real clarity on trying to determine, you know, what's wrong but at the same time you have those musings. I mean, how does it come down to your mental state at the time of the crime. JACKSON: And its interesting Fredricka, because there it is, it says "Why, why, why." And, you know, I think that what'll happen is the juries are going to be -- each side is going to persuade them, right. The prosecution, he pre-planned it, he premeditated, he showed up and he had full body armor, he had a helmet, he had a neck guard, he had leg protectors, he knew what was going, he booby trapped the apartment.

But then the defense will make the argument. He was in a psychosis. Clearly, if you look at this document that he has, he's not well. And how do we know he's not well? Because two psychiatrists looked you in the eye of juries and they told you so. And if you look at that, it has family history of medical issues and mental issues in his own histories. You have no choice, ladies and gentlemen, but to declare that he's insane. That's what the defense will say as to whether the juries believe it? Well, Phil, I guess that's another story.

HOLLOWAY: Yeah, they also have some state psychiatrist who said that, in fact very clearly, he did the right from wrong at the time. And if you take all of that together, Fred, I think at the end of the day when you combine that with everything the jury has seen in this courtroom along with what's in this document, I think that they will conclude that he did know right from wrong at the time he committed this terrible, terrible sense aside.

JACKSON: I do agree with that. I believe he will be found guilty notwithstanding the mental health issues and the testimony that have gone on. Too much planning, preparation...

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely.

JACKSON: ... very difficult for the defense to overcome.

WITHFIELD: All right, again, closing arguments tomorrow. Joey Jackson, Philip Holloway, thanks so much.

JACKSON: Thanks Fred.

HOLLOWAY: Have a great day, Fredricka.

WITHFIELD: All right, thanks so much. All right, next the breaking news out of the White House, President Obama commutes the sentences of more than 40, mostly drug offenders. We'll go live to Washington, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:59] WHITFIELD: All right, breaking news, the White House says President Obama is commuting prison sentences for 46 people and in so doing, the President has now issued nearly 90 commutations, the vast majority to non-violent offenders sentenced for drug crimes under outdated sentencing rules.

Here is the President, not long ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES' PRESIDENT: Over the last few years, a lot of people would become aware of the inequities in the criminal justice system. The fact that we spend over $80 billion a year in incarcerating people often times who've only been engaged in non- violent drug offenses.

Right now, with our overall crime rate and incarceration rate both falling, we're at the moment when some good people in both parties, Republicans and Democrats and folks all across the country are coming together around ideas to make the system work smarter, make it work better. And I'm determined to do my part wherever I can.

That's one of the reasons why I'm commuting the sentences of 46 prisoners who were convicted many years or in some cases decades ago. These men and women were not hardened criminals but the overwhelming majority had been sentenced to at least 20 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's bring in Senior White House Correspondent, Jim Acosta. So we heard him said that overall crime rate is down that's one reason but is there any other detail?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Fredricka, this is a priority for the President for his remaining time in office at his news conference a couple of weeks ago. I asked him, you know, "What do you plan on spending all of these newfound political capital on", he's had a couple of good weeks, and he said, "A criminal justice reform is one of those issues." He's going to be talking about it tomorrow in front of the NAACP in Philadelphia and then later on this week will be first sitting president to visit a federal prison in Oklahoma.

And so, this is a big theme for this president this week and just to give you some details about these offenders. These are all drug offenders, all 46 of them, many of them crack cocaine and the White House put out a letter that the President wrote to one inmate to Jerry Allen Bailey who's at a federal correctional facility in Jesup, Georgia and it says in the letter, "I am granting your application because you have demonstrated the potential to turn your life around. Now it is up to you to make the most of this opportunity."

Fredricka, this is pretty astounding can you imagine being an inmate in a federal penitentiary ...

WHITFIELD: Right.

ACOSTA: ... and you get a letter form the President of the United States commuting the rest of your sentence. The White House Counsel, Neil Eggleston in terms of why this is happening, you know, why did they identify these 46 individuals. They are saying that because of today's sentencing guidelines that are little bit loser in terms of dealing with drug offenders than they were when these people were sentenced that these folks are being -- or having other sentences commuted and these prisoners are being released. They were sentenced with much harsher terms than people in similar situations would be issued today. And so they've gone through all these cases with a fine tooth comb. And they're reasonably confident that they're doing the right here thing obviously this comes with some risk and we'll be asking the White House Press Secretary, Josh Earnest about this later on this afternoon. But this is a big priority for this President, he's talked about this for quite some time.

And Fredricka, when I asked him about this a couple of weeks ago, it was a little surprising to hear the President say will criminal justice reform is one of these areas he wants to concentrate on but one of the reasons why is because there are some bipartisan support for all of this. Rand Paul, the Republican presidential candidate, he has talked about this and it's raise some eyebrows inside the Republican Party but the President feels like and we'll hear that this week that he can find some common ground in both parties to try to work on this issue.

WHITFIELD: Wow, well even when you're reading part of that letter I mean, you can only envision probably the tears, you know, that are flowing for some of those who have been held who really have been in a place thinking there are no second chances. Well, now here is a very big one.

All right, Jim Acosta, thank you so much from the White House.

ACOSTA: You bet.

WHITFIELD: All right, thank you so much for watching. I'm Fredricka Whitfield back here tomorrow in for Ashleigh Banfield right now.

Wolf starts right now.

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