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Closing Arguments in James Holmes Trial; Donald Trump Speaks Out; Historic Iranian Nuclear Deal Reached. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The leading international powers have bet our collective future on a deal with the foremost sponsor of international terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: So, part of this deal with allow 24/7 inspections of Iran's known nuclear sites, plus any suspicious sites as well.

But there are still some conditions, like a gray area, when it comes to military compounds. Secondly, a reduction in stockpiles. Currently, Iran has the ability to make 10 nuclear weapons, but under this deal, they wouldn't even be able to make one. So what does Iran get out of all of this?

Well, for one, the lifting of international sanctions that had crippled its economy.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour just interviewed the two men who were instrumental in cobbling together this deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Remember, during all of this time, Iran never pulled out of the Nonproliferation Treaty. They could have. They could have said, to hell with you. We'll do our own thing. They've lived by the NPT.

They're living by it now. And they -- well, they say they're living by it now. They haven't lived by it completely, which is why we put the sanctions on them. So, now we're putting to test whether or not there's a change of heart, a change of mind, a change of direction. And if there isn't, we have every option available to us every day that we have right now.

MOHAMMAD JAVAD ZARIF, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Neither side must be prepared to provide the flexibility that has now led us to this agreement. If you look at the fact that now Iran has a nuclear program, an enrichment program, a heavy water reactor, an R&D program, a complete nuclear -- peaceful, because it was always peaceful. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now, Elise Labott, CNN global foreign affairs correspondent.

Elise, both Iran and the U.S. want to look like they have come out on top here. What is the U.S. saying in this deal compared to what you're hearing out of Iran?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, both sides are claiming victory and both sides are right in one way and wrong in another way.

If you look at what the foreign minister was just saying to Christiane Amanpour, Iran does right now have, according to this deal, an international recognized nuclear program. Now they are a legitimate, internationally recognized nuclear power in some ways, and -- but he's not mentioning all the curves that the U.S. is emphasizing.

So, I think it's all in how you emphasize it. For instance, the U.S. is emphasizing very tough, intrusive inspections. Yes, there are a lot tougher inspections as a result of this deal than Iran was having before. And there will be for the foreseeable future.

But there are also some things that Iran gets in terms of those inspections. When there's a suspect site, as they call it, Iran will get a 24-day notice. So, I think it's all in the interpretation. Both sides are able to claim victory. I think they both get a lot out of the deal.

But as the foreign minister said and as the secretary said earlier, nobody is going to get exactly what they want. That's the art of diplomacy and negotiation.

BROWN: What about the 10, 15 years when the restrictions are lifted, Elise? What are we expecting to happen then or what is the U.S. hoping for?

LABOTT: Well, it's a real gamble. The U.S. is hoping that in 10 to 15 years, when all these restrictions are lifted, that there's a fundamentally different Iranian regime that doesn't feel the need to go for nuclear weapons, doesn't care that much about a nuclear power, Iran coming back from the cold into the international community will feel more comfortable, more confident and will assert its place in the region and it will be a much more constructive actor and won't be a nuclear threat.

If you listen to a lot of criticisms from Republicans on the Hill or from Israel, for instance, even if you look around in Saudi Arabia, they are saying a leopard does not change its spots. Iran is going to be the same regime and now in 10 to 15 years, it's going to have hundreds of billions of dollars to continue, not only with its activity and terrorism and the like, but also be able to reconstitute its nuclear program.

So it's a real gamble for the U.S. that the next 10 years are going to lead to a fundamentally different Iran.

BROWN: Elise Labott, thank you so much.

Let's talk a little bit more about the criticism that Elise just alluded to. Many Republicans are already shooting down the landmark deal. But here's something that many Americans might be able to agree on. And that's cheaper gas. That's right. When Iranian oil starts flowing into the markets again, analysts are predicting $2 a gallon.

Our chief business correspondent, Christine Romans, explains -- Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, bringing Iran in from the cold brings a major power player to the global energy market.

Iran has the fourth largest oil reserves in the world. It's also sitting on the second largest reserves of natural gas. And its oil, its energy will begin spilling into the market at a time the world consumes two million barrels per day less than it produces. If the deal survives a hostile Congress, if it survives Iranian politics, it could mean up to one million barrels a day of new oil on the market.

[15:05:06]

Now, it would take a while for Iran to ramp up production, no question, but even a small increase could make a difference in prices. Tom Kloza from GasBuddy predicts oil prices could fall back into the high $40-a-barrel range, gas prices down to $2 -- again, let me repeat that, gas prices heading down to $2 by the fall.

For American consumers, it would mean significant energy savings compared with last year. For oil and gas companies, it would mean more pressure on their bottom line -- Pamela.

BROWN: Christine Romans, thank you so much.

Four American families are hopeful about the Iran nuclear deal, not just for what it says, but what it could mean for their plight. They are the loved ones of four U.S. citizens either detained in Iran or in the case of Robert Levinson reported missing after visiting the nation.

The others are "Washington Post" reporter Jason Rezaian, Christian Pastor Saeed Abedini, and former U.S. Marine Amir Hekmati. Levinson is a retired FBI agent. His son just spoke in the last hour about this deal's significance for him and his family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LEVINSON, FATHER MISSING: We desperately want my father home. It's been eight years and even one more day is too long without him. What we believe is that this deal is not the end of discussions between the Iranian government and the United States government, but merely the beginning, and hopefully that this leads to my father's case being a priority and being at the center of discussions from here on out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: With me now, senior media correspondent and host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" Brian Stelter.

Hey, Brian. Good to see you.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You, too.

BROWN: You have been keeping in touch with the family of Jason Rezaian from "The Washington Post" ever since he was arrested last year.

STELTER: Yes.

BROWN: What is the family saying today? There's been some disappointment, we know, that this wasn't included in the deal.

STELTER: You're right that there's a real mixed emotions you can sense from the family members on this historic day.

Jason's brother Ali lives out here in California. They are expressing hopeful signs today, Ali saying that his brother should have been covering today's announcement as a journalist, instead of behind bars, because Jason has been in an Iranian prison for almost a year now. Next week, actually, will be the one-year mark.

The charges seem very trumped up. There's charges of espionage, but no proof to back it up. And "Washington Post" editor Marty Baron has categorically denied all those allegations. Marty Baron today in a statement says that "The Washington Post" is also hopeful that this deal today will lead to the release of Jason.

Like you mentioned, there are other people as well, other Iranian- Americans, some with dual nationalities in some cases, who also being held. In some cases, these family members have tried to be careful about what they say. They have been cautious sometimes about what they say because they don't want to affect any talks or any possibility of release.

But now with this deal, we're seeing some of the strongest language yet. For example, Jason's brother Ali saying today that the treatment of his brother has been cruel and unusual and inhumane -- Pamela.

BROWN: Well, John Kerry spoke about the hostages today, the detainees, we should say, and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: Certainly, we continue too call on Iran to immediately release the detained U.S. citizens. These Americans have remained in our thoughts throughout this negotiation.

And we will continue to work for their safe and their swift return and we urge Iran to bring our missing Americans home as well. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But, Brian, President Obama didn't mention them at all. I'm curious, what did the family members think about that? Do they understand why the administration kept these issues separate?

STELTER: There's certainly been criticism of the fact that the U.S. has not tied these issues more closely together, at least not publicly.

But the family members for the most part have been muted in that criticism trying again to be sensitive about how much they say and don't say. For example, the Rezaian family today thanking the U.S. government for the efforts that have been made. And they remain hopeful that this deal is a stepping-stone toward having in this case their loved one come home.

Each of these four cases you're describing are a little bit different and each one is complicated. Jason Rezaian, for example, is both Iranian and American. He has dual citizenship, so Iran says they don't recognize his American citizenship at all.

But, obviously, "The Washington Post" does. His family does. And journalists all around the world believe it's a tragedy and a travesty that he's been behind bars for almost a year. He frankly should be out covering this story today, this historic moment. There's a lot of hope and optimism because these people have seemed like pawns in a geopolitical process. Now that that process is changing, hopefully their status will change as well.

BROWN: Well, Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

And, tonight, Anderson Cooper will speak to Rezaian's brother. That's going to be on "A.C. 360" at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time right here on CNN.

Up next right here in the NEWSROOM, the 2016 candidates are weighing in, including Donald Trump, who is near the top of the Republican polls -- what he says about the deal with Iran and the reported threats against him involving El Chapo's escape.

[15:10:13]

Plus, the lawyers for accused movie theater shooter James Holmes about to make their final case to the jury -- what their strategy could be.

And a kidnapping originally called a hoax, now the FBI says it wasn't a hoax. Hear what the victim's family says about that -- straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Donald Trump is not mincing words today in the hours after a historic deal with nuclear Iran.

CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, talked to the Republican presidential candidate just a short time ago, asking him about everything from his Republican rivals to alleged threats from escaped drug cartel leader El Chapo to the new deal with Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The president said that it's not built on trust; it's built on verification.

[15:15:03]

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not true. It's absolutely not true.

BASH: How do you know that?

TRUMP: They can do whatever they want to do.

Because I know many of the people involved in the negotiation. The Iranians are very good negotiators. The Persians are always great negotiators. They're laughing at us back in Iran. And why didn't we get our prisoners back? Why don't somebody say, where are our prisoners? Nobody is even talking -- we have four people that are in prison that shouldn't be.

Why couldn't they make that part of the deal? That would have happened quickly, easily if you had the right messenger. And that should have actually happened earlier. That should have happened at the beginning of the negotiation. Plus, we shouldn't have given their money back. We're giving them billions of dollars. We shouldn't have given their money back.

BASH: So you're in the White House, you're in the Oval Office, Iran and the specter of having a nuclear weapon is in front of you, what do you do?

TRUMP: Well, first of all, it wouldn't be that soon. And, second of all, what I would do is, I would have made a deal not from desperation. I would have doubled and tripled up the sanctions and I would have made a much better deal.

I would have also gotten our prisoners back. I'm saying relative to nuclear, that's a big deal, but to me it's a big deal, because it represents something. We make a deal, we don't even get these four people back that shouldn't be there? I think it's terrible.

But it's emblematic of the way they negotiate. It's like Sergeant Bergdahl. We get a traitor named Sergeant Bergdahl and they get -- look what they get. They get their five guys that they most wanted anywhere in the world. Who makes deals like this?

And, by the way, with Bergdahl, six people died trying to get that traitor back. So, we get Bergdahl, they get five guys that they wanted. That's not the way you deal.

BASH: You put out a very harshly worded statement about Hillary Clinton today. Why the gloves come off?

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, she did it with me. She talked about my tone.

And I said basically it's not about tone. We're too worried about tone in this country. And that's why we're getting beaten by everybody. It's about results. You have to get results. They are worried about the tone. Is the voice raised a little bit?

Look, she's got problems. I will tell you, she's got another Obama situation coming up. When she ran against Obama, it was like, who is Obama? And, all of a sudden, he ended up...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Who is the Obama of this...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, it looks like Bernie Sanders. It looks like somebody. She's not doing very well, I can tell you that. Every -- she's getting chopped down every month that the polls come out.

BASH: She's not the only one talking about tone. Lindsey Graham, your opponent, told me on Sunday that you're a wrecking ball for the Republican Party.

TRUMP: Well, Lindsey Graham is somebody, look, he's got zero in the polls. Nobody is listening to him.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: He's not the only one. You know that he's not the only one.

TRUMP: Excuse me. Well, but how about Ted Cruz and how about Ben Carson? And how about others that say what Trump said is exactly right? You have to mention them too.

Lindsey Graham, all I see him doing is wanting to bomb everybody. Every time I look at him, he wants to bomb somebody.

BASH: The whole issue with the Mexican drug lord who broke out of prison, can you tell me about the threat that you believe that you got in your conversations with the FBI?

TRUMP: Well, I have had threats because I'm talking about Mexico and I have great respect for the Mexican leaders, because they are making much smarter and more cunning than our leaders and they're making much better deals.

And I have a theory that Mexico doesn't care so much what I say about the border, which is horrible, the border. They care more about what I'm saying about trade, because they are making trade deals with the United States that are just stripping us of our money, our jobs, our people.

What they are doing to the United States in trade -- and I have a theory that Mexico is calling a lot of shots. And I also now -- I'm suing Univision now for $500 million. I have a very -- I have an unbreakable contract. I also think that Univision takes its marching orders absolutely from Mexico.

BASH: But just specifically on the El Chapo situation, do you have any evidence or any real concern that there is a real threat from him in particular?

TRUMP: Law enforcement has it very well in hand. We will see. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't.

I will tell you what. I'm about one thing, a much bigger subject than me, making America great again. That's a much bigger subject than me. I'm willing to do this. And people say, you have this great life. Why would you do it? Look at places like this. I have them all over the world, actually.

I'm about one thing, making America great again. We have tremendous potential, but we're not using it. We have incompetent people as our leaders. We have incompetent people as our negotiators. And the whole world is laughing at us.

So I don't think about that. I think about this. Hopefully, the folks in law enforcement know what they are doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And let me bring in CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger in Washington.

So, Gloria, we just got this new poll in from Suffolk University that shows Donald Trump on top.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Yes.

BROWN: Tell us about this.

BORGER: Yes, Donald Trump on top. You see the numbers right there, beating Jeb Bush 17-14.

This isn't a national poll. Let me point out that Trump and Bush, the difference is within the margin of error, so you could say it's more or less of a dead heat. Also in this poll, if you dig deeper in it, it shows a couple things.

One is a significant 30 percent of the Republican electorate says that they are undecided about whom they are going to support. Not surprising, given the fact that we are so early on. But there's a big chunk of people out there who are unwilling to commit.

[15:20:09]

And also, if you look into this poll, you see where Trump support is coming from. It's coming from people who self-identify as conservative or very conservative. So that is the base of the Republican Party. And I think, in Dana's great interview there, what you hear is the anger that Donald Trump speaks to in those voters, calling the negotiations incompetent, calling Obama incompetent.

And this is someone not afraid to take on his own fellow Republicans as well. One more thing I would point out about this poll, though, Pam, is that Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump in this Trump by 17 points in a one-to-one matchup. He can criticize Hillary Clinton, saying she's going to lose to Bernie Sanders, or whatever, that she's got this problem, but she does pretty well when matched up against him.

BROWN: And you mentioned that he was in a dead heat with Jeb Bush, Gloria. Just in the last hour, Jeb Bush talked about Trump and here's what he said. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why am I talking about Trump?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BUSH: Well, I didn't talk to him about him too much. In fact, no questions -- it seems that no question moment up about Donald Trump.

I do think, though, from a Republican Party perspective, we have to be big and bold, not divisive and angry. We have to be hopeful and optimistic, not deeply pessimistic.

We're never going to win if we're a grievance party. We will win if we offer something that gives people hope that their lives are going to get better. And Mr. Trump has every right to have every belief he has. He's going to run. That's fine. But I don't want to be associated with the kind of vitriol that he's spewing out these days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, I'm curious, Gloria, do you think that he's basically saying out loud what a lot of the Republicans in the race have been thinking?

BORGER: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Look, what he's saying is, OK, Donald Trump is an insurgent. Fine. I get that. He's angry. I get that he speaks for a certain part of the Republican Party. But what he's saying and what Republicans I talk to privately are saying is, look, this isn't the tone that we want to set for the 2016 election, because if Republicans want to win this election, they not only have to appeal to the base of the Republican Party, but they have to appeal to independent voters.

And they have to propose solutions, and they can't be angry about everything because anger only gets you so far. And I think what Jeb Bush is saying is like, fine, he's got every right to be in this race. It's clear that he seems like he's a little tired of the sort of whole Donald Trump shtick, if you will.

But he sort of said, look, this isn't the way that I intend to run. I'm going to run my race. Let Donald Trump run his race. And we will see, in the end, whom Republicans believe will be more electable.

And as you go through the primary process, what always happens is that Republican voters or Democratic voters go for the candidate that they believe can win the presidency. And in the end, voters are going to have to decide who they believe is the most electable Republican among the more than a dozen or so that we have got cooking so far.

BROWN: All right, Gloria Borger, we will leave it there. Thank you so much.

BORGER: Sure.

BROWN: Up next, the last step in the trial for a man accused of opening fire inside the "Dark Knight" movie premiere. Lawyers are close to making their closing arguments.

Plus, who may have helped Mexican drug king El Chapo break out of prison? New details just coming in to CNN. And we will take you live to Mexico.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:20]

BROWN: After 11 weeks of testimony, closing arguments are just getting under way just moments ago in the Colorado theater shooting trial.

The defendant, James Holmes, is charged with multiple accounts of murder and attempted murder. And he faces the death penalty.

During today's jury instructions, the judge read all of the names of the victims of the July 2012 shooting rampage.

CNN's Ana Cabrera is monitoring the trial for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At that time, did you have any doubt that you would end up killing a lot of people?

JAMES HOLMES, DEFENDANT: No.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): James Holmes describes a mission to kill.

HOLMES: Well, the dead can't be repaired or come back to life or be normal again. So it's kind of irreversible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard you say was that that accrues to something positive for you.

HOLMES: Right.

CABRERA: His words likely to linger with jurors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the wounded?

HOLMES: They're collateral damage, I guess.

CABRERA: Holmes chose not to take the witness stand but prosecutors played 22 hours of videotaped interviews with a court-appointed psychiatrist, Dr. William Reid, one of two mental health experts who concluded Holmes suffered mental illness, but was legally sane when he carried out the attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The delusions propelled him to commit this act.

CABRERA: The defense battled back with its own experts. Dr. Raquel Gur told jurors those delusions made Holmes believe killing would increase his own self-worth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not believe that without the delusion and without being mentally, this would have ever happened.

CABRERA: And the defense showed videos of Holmes in jail acting strangely, falling backwards from his bunk a few months after the shooting, before being hospitalized for a psychotic episode, proof of his insanity, they say.