Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Obama And Kerry Begin Selling Iranian Nuclear Agreement; Can The U.S. And Rest Of The World Enforce Inspections On Iranian Nuclear Sites?; Economic Impact Of The Iran Agreement; Obama Commutes Several Prison Sentences And Visits A Prison; Police Captain's Son Accused In ISIS-Inspired Plot; Trump Talks To CNN About Historic Iran Nuclear Deal. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 14, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Sanctions brought them to the table to negotiate. They did the very thing everybody put the sanctions in place to get them to do, which is negotiate. So they negotiated.

Now measure the agreement to see whether or not it achieves what we need too in terms of insight, restraint, accountability and so forth. That's what we should be doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: And Kerry's counterpart, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Zarif also talked with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD ZARIF, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Any agreement includes complements. We have in fact accepted some limitations and in reciprocation of -- for our acceptance of those limitations.

We receive quite a lot of benefit. Neither side must prepare to provide the flexibility that has now led us to disagreement. If you look at the fact that now Iran has a nuclear program, an enrichment program a heavy water reactor and R&D program, it completes peaceful because it was always peaceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right so let's bring in International Security Analyst Jim Walsh. Good to see you Jim.

JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good to see you Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, so we all heard the president say 24/7 access to key nuclear facilities. But given the history of inspections, why should the U.S. or the world even expect that things will be different this time?

WALSH: Well I think, actually our problem with Iran, we have a lots of problems with Iran. And on the nuclear side it's -- they been engaging an activities we don't like that to say enrichment. But we've always had pretty consistent access.

So the International Atomic Energy Agency has been on the ground since going back to 2005. And that joint plan of action that they agreed too back November the 2013, the Iranian deal that we've been doing has gone without a hitch, IAEA inspectors even having daily access to key nuclear facilities and without problem.

So, the important thing is, if they were to cause problems at these facilities we would know about it right away. And the fact that we would know about it detours them from trying to pull in each shenanigans.

WHITFIELD: So how stunning it is to you personally that the U.S. and European countries have been able to maintain this kind of unity as it pertains to striking this deal?

WALSH: You know, that's a great question. And no one has asked me that. And now you are been at this for 15 years just on this one issue. And you're right it is stunning, I remember back in 2005, I was so surprised that Russia and China got on board with the sanctions, right. Every one have thought that they would defect and then even with problems in Ukrain, the Russians have hang top on this and stayed in the coalition.

I think it's really shows you how powerful international diplomacy can be when the great power stay on the same page you can get staff done.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, at the same time Russia has wanted, you know, some real easing of the embargo. So what that stake for Russia?

WALSH: Well I think Russia wants easing a variety of things. But it has to be set about that embargo. I think there's some misinformation about it. I'm glad it was resolved. But that aren't embargo was imposed as a nuclear penalty.

And so not surprisingly Iran expected that, if they saw a nuclear program that embargo would come off. But they swallowed hard on that one made a concession. And so that's going to continue for another eight years.

You know, I think the Russians obviously, Iran is near their border, they don't want another nuclear weapon state near them, they've always been a pretty good non-proliferation partner in that regard. They like having nuclear weapons, they don't like anyone else having them.

So I think their interest are served I think in the Middle East, everyone is better off if Iran is not going down the nuclear weapons path. And of course it's a big victory for U.S. non-proliferation policy.

WHITFIELD: And you've been watching this for many, many years. Are you optimistic about this well?

WALSH: You know, I think it's a very solid agreement, when I testified before congress a couple of weeks ago before Senate Foreign Relations Committee, I said "How are we suppose to judge an agreement." I mean we can sort of pick things out that might go wrong, you know, in some imaginary world that's not an assessment.

The assessment is, let's compare this agreement to past agreements that have been successful. And let's compare it to the alternatives.

And by those two measures comparing it to past agreements, it's arguably the strongest multi lateral non-proliferation agreement ever negotiated, certainly stronger than the nuclear non-proliferation treaty which was a fabulous success.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jim Walsh always good to see you, thank you so much.

WALSH: Good to see you. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. All right at the meantime oil prices initially to nose dive (ph) this morning after the news of the Iran nuclear deal broke. But now, they have recovered, let's talk about the long-term economic impact of this deal with CNN Digital Correspondent Paul La Monica.

All right so Paul, let's take a look right now how our oil prices and will they indeed continue to dip.

PAUL LA MONICA, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Oil prices have been very volatile today, it's important to remember they have come down really sharply from last year, when there over a hundred dollar a barrel. But many experts think that oil prices and then as a result gasoline prices as well will fall as a result of this deal.

[12:35:13] The biggest issue with the oil market is we've had a glut of oil supplies and that increases if Iran is now allowed to pump oil and sell that on the open market.

WHITFIELD: So what are the prospects of that, if it turns out that Iran is going to be producing more oil, it will be available on the open market. How influential?

MONICA: It is very influential, Iran definitely having been limited from selling oil in the past that's one thing that some oil bulls (ph) have said been keeping prices a little bit more stable, now that you have this supply coming on, you still have OPEC pumping, you still have the U.S. with the Shell gas explosion having a lot of supply out there as well.

The good news again for consumers, is that this should lead to lower prices of the gas pump. Some are predicting that maybe we get back to $2 as a national average sometime in the next few months.

WHITFIELD: Wow that would be pretty extraordinary.

All right Paul La Monica, thanks so much.

MONICA: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, its President Obama is headed to prison this week paying a visit to make an important point. He'll explain it all in his speech today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, President Obama is making a big push this week to reform the criminal justice system.

He started yesterday by cutting the prison sentences of 46 drug offenders. And then just a couple of hours from now, he'll outline his reform effort at the NAACP's 106th national convention in Philadelphia.

And then on Thursday he will be the first sitting U.S. president who ever visit a federal prison.

Joining right now from Boston, is CNN Political Commentator Van Jones along with CNN Legal Analyst Paul Callan who is also a former prosecutor.

[12:40:00] Good to see both of you gentlemen.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right so Van so first because the president in many ways has had messages during his presidency about the inequities in the criminal justice system.

But what is it about his commutation this week and now the visit at a federal prison. What is different about this message? It seems that we've taking it yet a big step forward.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I -- absolutely this is a huge week for the president on this issue. You have the speech today, you have commutations yesterday -- these commutations by the way, I mean, yeah people to do it 20, 30, 40 years for non-violent drug offenses.

You can shot a cop and get 25 years. We have people jail for 40 years for possessing drugs, totally crazy stuff. So we try to fix that. But I think much more importantly he's seizing on this by partisan momentum now for criminal justice reform.

There are five by partisan bills in the senate right now that deal with this issue. And also in the House something called the Safe Justice Act has been introduced 10 Republicans, 10 Democrats trying to get something done. So I think the president is saying, listen if Republican governors and Republican congress leaders are trying to move something forward. I'm with you, let's get something done.

WHITFIELD: So then Paul, reform in the criminal justice system takes a very long time traditionally. But, how is it that the president's involvement that he's words even later on today or perhaps even at the prison might help expedite it?

PAUL CALLAN, LEGAL ANALYST: Well I think first of all his action in using the pardon and commutation power the presidency is very, very important. If you look back at prior presidents a lot of the people who got commuted sentences tended to be white color criminals. And you're very rarely see people in on serious drug charges -- drug dealing charges getting commuted sentences. Now, why is he doing this?

He's doing it because our prisons our filled with people who are -- have committed non-violent drug related crimes who were spending 20 years, 10 years, 25 years behind bars. And its our draining our resources and it's just not necessary.

You know, Fredricka this all imitated from the carnage that was going on in the 1980's as a result of the crack epidemic. And there was huge amount of violence in every major American city. And there was over reaction. We didn't trust our judges, our prosecutors, and congress pass these laws and they've filled the prisons beyond capacity. And it's really time for reform and I'm glad to see the president taking an important step here.

WHITFIELD: So Van you keep hearing in conversations about what he is doing this week. And you hear the word legacy all the time. But is it bigger than this president's legacy?

JONES: Well, you know, I think it is. First of all he has an opportunity when he leaves office to keep working on these issues, that's going to be going on for a long time. But, you know, he has a tremendous wind at his back on this issue from his own base. You have organizations like families against mandatory minimums, the drug policy alliance has been working on this for years and years. I don't part of something called cut 50, this is the new thing called justice reform now.

You also have bipartisan groups like the coalition for public safety that have come together. There's a big bipartisan wind at his back if he can get something done, it's great to get speeches. It's great to do the visits.

You have to sign a bill in order for it to be a part of your legacy. There are bills that are ready to go. I hope that this will go beyond just rhetoric's it's very important. A few people getting out of jail, very important, many more should get out of jail who should commute more sentences. But he should also make sure we get a bill signed.

I think that's where he's looking. I think there's a space. I hope that we can take it as a country.

WHITFIELD: All right, and maybe to your point Paul that's where this leads.

All right, thank you so much gentlemen. Appreciate it. Paul Callan and Van Jones appreciate it.

And we'll have much more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [12:47:21] WHITFIELD: (inaudible) On behalf of ISIS story before, but what makes this story so unusual is the suspect, Alexander Ciccolo is the son of a Boston police captain and it was his father who ultimately got him locked up.

Alexander feel looks up the dangerous plans authorities say the younger Ciccolo was cooking up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Veteran Boston Police Officer Captain Robert Ciccolo compelled to alert authorities about his 23-year-old son's alarming comments to his father, the son now standing accused of terrorist plotting on behalf of ISIS.

Alexander Ciccolo was arrested and charged on July 4th for felony, possession of firearms, allegedly purchased to carry out an attack.

RICK MATTHEWS, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL CENTER FOR SECURITY, UNIV. OF ALBANY: This individual begun to look at ISIS, look what they were doing and begun to change himself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to court documents unsealed Monday, Alexander has a long history of mental illness and he became obsessed with Islam 18 months ago

Through a cooperating witness, the Joint Terrorism Task Force made contact with Alexander. Investigators saythe 23-year-old ordered high-powered guns from that individual, weapons he received just 10 days ago.

Alexander allegedly saying he wanted to set up homemade bombs at a college cafeteria before the end of this month. Inside his Massachusetts apartment, investigators say they found several partially constructed Molotov cocktails, two machetes, and a long curved knife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He could have detonated anything at any time or something could have gone bad inside the apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before his arrest, the agents watched Alexander purchase a pressure cooker that they say he planned to make into a bomb similar to the one used in the 2013 Boston Marathon attacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very disturbing, shocking, and you're not safe anywhere anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Wow, and that's a big thanks for Alexander field reporting there. So there's a detention hearing for Alexander Ciccolo at 3:00 Eastern.

In the meantime, let's talk more about this. I want to bring in CNN National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem. Wow, this is pretty striking and what a difficult decision this must have been for the father, Captain Robert Ciccolo. You know the captain, so give me an idea of what his instincts were as a father but at the same time as a police captain.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I knew him when I was the Homeland Security advisor in Massachusetts. We did a lot of work with the Boston Police Department. Let me just say, generally, the Boston Police Department is a titanate group of men whose sons and daughters and then their sons and daughters also become police officers.

[12:50:03] And so, to have a son like Alex, because this is a real case, let me just put that -- let me just state that. This is a real case. This is not one of those someone was online. This guy had serious weaponry in his home.

So essentially, a father who happens to be a police officer does what, you know, homeland security and other law enforcement officials are always asking the public to do which is if something seems awry with someone you know, let us know and then it led to an investigation.

WHITFIELD: But what a conflict because this is his son. But then one would think that perhaps they might be able to get more information from these suspects than other cases, particularly because the dad, is you know, a police captain.

Might this kind of information, this digging, this interrogation lead to other people who may be complicit or where he may have gotten the instruction or guidance?

(CROSSTALK)

KAYYEM: Right, that's exactly right. So what it appears at least from reading the affidavit. What is it which was released yesterday, what appears happened is that he became self-radicalized with some connections to what happened at the Boston Marathon two years ago.

He then begins to do stuff online that gets others engaged and then after his father shows some concern and talks to the Joint Terrorism Task Force, that is when the FBI has an informant who approaches Alex and they began a conversation. We don't know if that informant was paid or not and that's when the purchases of these materials, serious materials that would have caused a lot of damage occurs.

So that's the sequencing at least that we can tell from what was released through yesterday. We'll know a little bit more after the detention hearing today.

WHITFIELD: OK. And then there's a statement coming from the family saying, "While we were saddened and disappointed to learn of our son's intentions, we are grateful that authorities were able to prevent any loss of life or harm to others." We are talking about, you know, this taking place just from the shadow of that Boston Marathon bombing. That city is far from hills from something -- it's such a travesty.

KAYYEM: Right, that's right. And we've had a number of cases since the Boston Marathon so, you know, so Massachusetts authorities are looking into that. I should say that I was just living through west of Boston, pretty far up is a different -- a federal court house, a different joint terrorism task force, one that's very close to New York.

And so, we'll see what the connections are but obviously this is, as you said at the beginning, these cases are going to be more and more familiar. What's unique about this case is the profession of his father.

WHITFIELD: Right, also very troubling. All right. Thanks so much Juliette Kayyem. I appreciate it.

All right, straight ahead, Donald Trump. Well he's not shy about saying anything, anything that he thinks right and it has helped him surge in the polls for the Republican presidential nomination.

Well now, guess what, he talks to our Dana Bash. She reveals what he said.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:56:34] WHITFIELD: All right, then he said he wasn't a serious candidate? Well, John Donald Trump has shot now to the top of the polls with his meteoric or his rhetoric rather about Mexican immigrant.

Well, now he is speaking out on Iran and talking to CNN. CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent, Dana Bash spoke to Trump and she joins me live on the phone from Charlottesville, Virginia where apparently what, Dana, he had a ribbon cutting for his winery there and then you caught up with him, what do you say?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's -- As said this is definitely the first campaign even I've done at a candidate's new winery but we did get into the serious issues and that of course is the Iran deal. Let me play for you part of what he said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Let's talk about the Iran deal. The President said that it's not built on trust, it's built on verification.

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not true. It's absolutely not true.

BASH: How do you know that?

TRUMP: It can do whatever they want to do because I know many of the people involved in the negotiation. The Iranians are very good negotiators. The Persians are always great negotiators. They are laughing at us back in Iran and why didn't we get our prisoners back, why isn't somebody say where are our prisoners. Nobody is even telling them we are for people that are in prison that shouldn't be. Why couldn't they make that part of the deal?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now I asked, well if there were a President Trump living in the Oval Office what would he do about the sector of nuclear run and his answer is was, Fredricka, that he wouldn't have negotiated some -- a point of weakness which is actually something you heard from too much all of the Republican candidate speaking out now today.

But he also said that he would have doubled and tripled the sanction that would have been his answer. So, you know, obviously, a very interesting topic to get out with anybody but especially someone like Donald Trump who, as the main part of his selling job as a Presidential candidate is the fact that he knows how to negotiate.

WHITFILED: All right, so Dana, what else that did you talk about?

BASH: Well, there's a new poll out today a Mama's poll that says that 40 percent of Republican voters think that he's just doing this for the publicity. And I asked him about that and he was well aware of the poll, he actually said that he was surprised about it because he insist that he wouldn't be doing this if it would just end up just for publicity because he's got, you know, other things going on and he insisted that number shows him that he can actually persuade those people.

The way he read that is that if those 40percent think he's just doing it for the publicity and he can prove them wrong maybe he can get them to vote for him. We'll see if that fares out, about one thing that might, you know, he's also admit that Fredricka, he also told me that the financial disclosure that he promised will be coming. Showing the world what his real network is could come as soon as tomorrow or even the next day.

I asked for a preview, he wouldn't give it to me but, you know, that is really one of the last key question that does prove that he is doing this for real. If he does show everybody what's his financials are and he insist that's coming within the next 24 or 48 hours.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right, Dana Bash, we look forward to hearing more your interview with the Donald Trump there out of Charlottesville, Virginia.

I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Much more straight ahead. Wolf starts right now.