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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Chattanooga Shootings Discussed; Eyewitnesses Describe Shootings. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 16, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: All right, we're also just learning. Stay with me if you could, Erica, we're also learning ATF agents from the national field division. They are responding to the scene that's according to a local law enforcement official coming from Pamela Brown and our team here as well as the FBI responding.

How are the people you're with right now, Erica, doing? I mean this is, you know, a horrific incident and something I'd assume no one there has ever been through.

ERICA WRIGHT, WITNESSING SHOOTING AT MILITARY CENTER: Right. We're all shook up pretty much then have canceled the rest of our day, because they have the area blocked off. We don't know when our clients coming up here, you know, everything blocked out, police cars everywhere, they have their rifles drawn, I guess waiting or hoping, you know, if anything goes happens, but we're kind of shook up.

But just thank God that everybody is OK and we've all, you know, we saw it, but nothing happened to so we're just thankful to God right now.

HARLOW: Absolutely. But unfortunately we are hearing from our other witness, Gina that she believes at least one person was shot in the leg. We're also hearing from the Mayor, one officer is down. We don't know that officer's condition, as we wait to hear, can you talk to us a little bit about this community, the people there, the brave men an women that give and serve this country in the reserves that were attacked in this way.

WRIGHT: Yes. All we know is this is the recruitment place, we see the guys out drill, you know, different times during the day, as far as we know there are people their cars waiting on their boyfriend, their spouses to sign up or finish with their drill for the day. And it was just, you know, a normal day for us meaning, you know, we see them running and doing jumping jacks and stuff all the time. It's just, you know, never expect that anything like this.

HARLOW: And I'd assume you have some close relationships with some other people that serve there, you know, at the reserves and I'm just wondering what you can tell us abut them and if you've had a chance to speak to anyone on the phone who perhaps work in these offices.

WRIGHT: I have family members and different things that have been in those -- the Navy and Army. As far as any close knit with the people in the conflict, I don't have any close relation to them, we speak and everybody is cordial to each other, would look out for each other that's about the extent of it.

HARLOW: OK, thank you so much Erica for being with me on the phone. I appreciate it and I'm just glad you guys are doing all right. Again, just a recap for our viewers, if you're just joining us, I want to read this tweet queue coming to us from the U.S. Navy. They said the U.S. Navy confirms a shooting at the building on Amnicola Highway.

Again what we also know is that highway there has been shut down for a portion and one of our other witnesses telling that the shooting was made into multiple offices there at the Navy recruiting center.

Pamela Brown here with me in New York, Harry Houck CNN law enforcement analyst former NYPD detective, also with me on the phone and Pamela just to reset for our viewers here, there is still an ongoing active shooter incident at the Naval reserve center in Chattanooga Tennessee.

This is basically offices that helps support the reserves people that serve as well as carry their civilian jobs. We know from one witness that one person they believe were shot in the leg taking away by ambulance. We know form the mayor that one police officer is down, we don't know the condition of the officer, what are you hearing from the FBI?

PAMELA BROWN: Were still trying to get the information as we speak, it's pouring in and were trying to decipher, you know, what the facts are, but I just went back Poppy and looked at this an active shooter study that the FBI recently did, and it kind of gives us perspective on this, because at this point we're hearing that there is -- the witnesses say they saw one man, one man with a high powered rifle.

Out of the 160 shooting incidents between 2000 and 2013 all but two involved -- all but two, were just one shooter, only two involved more than one shooter and all but six involves male shooters. So I think that's really interesting here because more time than not, I mean the law enforcement has to assume there is more than one shooter, but usually it is one person that will do this, a lone wolf who will go and open fire and at this point we're only hearing about one shooter that witnesses are seeing. So that's just kind of put to them into perspective.

HARLOW: Yeah. It's a very good perspective and context also both of those witnesses, Gina calling from the restaurant nearby and Erica from the hair salon both saying really they saw the same thing. They saw a man sitting in a convertible Mustang shooting with a very large rifle, Erica adding now this person backed up and just shooting at them. Right and didn't speed away I mean, is that surprising you covered a lot of unfortunately tragic shooting.

[12:35:02] BROWN: It's not surprising frankly, I mean we've heard about this and many other shootings where the shooter is just very calm, very, you know, sort of diligent if you will, and sort of has this plan in place. This is the day they decide, you know, I'm going to and I'm going to shoot this target and it's really not the target, I think deliberate is the word I'm looking for, deliberate. It is not surprising at all, in fact I feel like more times than that, that's sort of the way that they are. HARLOW: Yeah. Stay with me Pamela, thank you as always. Harry Houck on the phone, Harry we're hearing from the mayor there of Chattanooga that there is an officer down. And we just wanted to be very careful in reporting this because when you hear officer down, we don't know if that means officer down an injured or officer down and dead, correct?

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Exactly. And is that law officer that's, I believe might be shot, is either someone that was shot in the leg, or we have two people that are shot. So that -- we need to clarify that. That's very important.

Also the second part here is that even though if this is only one shooter and that's exactly what the witnesses had said, the police have to go in there and, you know, take any chance that there could be a second or maybe a third shooter, that's why they have to secure the area and that's why people are still in lock down.

We don't know exactly for sure if it's one or two shooters or three shooters, but we have to go in with that in our mind to make sure to secure the area and that police don't get ambushed and, you know, when there's an attack.

Like this when police officers come in into an active shooter attack and one of the shooters flee and there's another one sitting and waiting to ambush officers. So, that's very important and that's why everything is pretty much still on lock down because they're probably concerned with this area is still not secure.

And I'm hoping somebody got a plate number on this car also. Apparently he was in the vehicle for a period of time shooting, reloading, backing up I'm hoping that somebody got the plate number on that vehicle or some did get some kind of video on that vehicle and it'll probably say the police would want that vehicle and find out who the owner is and they'll probably knocking on that door right now.

HARLOW: Oh wow, it is just unbelievable to hear from this multiple witness accounts that someone could do this let alone back up to, you know, what seems like methodically and deliberately shoot into yet another office as part of this army recruiting center there, before I get to a quick break I do want to let you know...

HOUCK: And that means he had a lot of time and apparently he did.

HARLOW: Right.

HOUCK: To be able to reload, back up, shoot and then, you know, some witnesses say a lead machine and one witness said that it was leading machine and (inaudible) and he's not much of a hurry. So, you know, watching and intending to get caught, was he intending to shootout with the police, we don't know until we catch up, we don't know.

HARLOW: Yeah. All right Harry Houck thank you very much stay with me, I do want to tell all our viewers that we do have a statement in now. One of our producers speaking with Erlanger Hospital that's a trauma center near the area, they are in lock down. They are not doing any interviews at this point and time. They're deferring to the police and the mayor, but they are saying that they are on lock down right now and they're in very close proximity to where the shooting unraveled.

Were going to take a quick break much more of our Breaking News straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:37] HARLOW: All right. We're continuing to follow the breaking news here on CNN.

An active shooting investigation underway in Chattanooga, Tennessee, a horrific event playing out this morning. Multiple witness accounts telling us here at CNN that someone, a man by himself hold up on a recruiting center for the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine there in Chattanooga and started indiscriminately firing into the offices, loading his gun at least one additional time backing up and continuing to fire before driving away.

I want you to listen to one witness account from a woman named Gina Mule who works at a restaurant right nearby.

All right, my apologies. We're turning out sound for you as soon as we have it, I will bring it to you. But I'm going to tell you a little bit about what she told me.

She said around 10:50 a.m. this morning, a man by himself pulled up to that Army and Navy and Marine recruiting center there in Chattanooga and started firing inside of the office buildings. She said at one -- another witness, Erica, told us at one point, that person backed up and reloaded and continued to shoot, sitting down in a convertible, silver Mustang before driving away.

This is a center that works to support and train those members of the reserves, both for the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines, and also recruits them.

Pamela Brown is here with me working her FBI sources. Also there's an interesting look at -- to some context of these shootings that happened far too often.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. In fact, according to this FBI study recently, active shooting situations are on the rise. And in fact, the FBI looked at 160 shootings between 2000 and 2013.

And here's what really stuck out to me. All but six of those 160 shootings involved male shooters and only two involved more than one shooter. So what that tells you is that in most cases it is one, it is a male shooter, it is a male acting alone and that is really what we have seen in other military shootings, other shootings at military installations. Remember the Navy Yard, remember, you know, Fort Hood, when the shooter -- there is a shooter there, I think it was a year and a half ago...

HARLOW: Yeah. BROWN: ... or so. And the other shootings we've seen at is usually a male acting alone. Now, what I'm being told, so we have a good idea of what the car look like from the shooter? And so what will happen, Poppy, just to get some perspective here is that presumably the license plate of that car has been reported. That is the hope.

HARLOW: Right.

BROWN: And that will be shared statewide so what law enforcement will do is take that information and try to identify the person associated with that, track that person's cellphone, and you know, try to get a good idea of who...

HARLOW: And where they are.

BROWN: ... this shooter or shooters are. So they're going to be looking at surveillance as well, they're going to send out be on the lookout, which is those BOLOs, you know, warning. Presumably we don't know if law enforcement has the shooter or not.

I mean, again, it's all unfolding, we don't have a lot of the facts but that's what's going to play out and that is what's playing out right now. Everyone's working together there. Even the Atlanta FBI is now involved, Poppy, we're being told.

So that just gives you an idea of now much of a, you know, how much of a support system is in place for these kinds of active shooter situations.

[12:45:08] There's an active -- There is a task force from different law enforcement agencies that come together. This is what they drill for, this is what they practice, and we're seeing it play out now.

POPPY: And we are hearing, Pamela, also from Erlanger Hospital that the trauma center right near the location of the shooting. That that is where the shooting victims will be sent in ambulance as they are on lock down otherwise. But of course, they'll be taking any victims.

One of the witnesses there, Gina (ph) telling us one person she believes was shot in the back of the leg.

Also, I want to remind you the mayor of Chattanooga saying there -- in that earlier press conference that there is one officer down. We don't know if that officer has been killed or not, but one officer down.

Andy Berke, the Mayor of Chattanooga also tweeting this few minutes ago, "Horrific incident in our community. We will release details as they are confirmed. Prayers to all of those affected."

Also, I can tell you that within a half an hours time. WTVC, a local news station down there reporting that there will be a press conference held. We'll of course bring that to you live as soon as it begins.

On the phone with me though, I do have Eva Lewis. She's' a student at Chattanooga state community college and...

EVA LEWIS, CHATTANOOGA STATE COMMUNITY COLLEGE: Hello

HARLOW: Eva, are you with me?

LEWIS: I am, but I'm not a student. I'm the public information officer for the college.

HARLOW: That's my mistake, I'm very sorry Eva. Thank you for being with me.

LEWIS: That's okay. Sure.

HARLOW: I understand the campus is on lock down. Is that the case?

LEWIS: We are on lock down. And so everybody is in the building, with the doors locked. And we have security officers and police officers who are our campus police officers. Making sure that everybody is safe.

HARLOW: How close is your campus to where this shooting occurred?

LEWIS: It's about a mile. It's within mile.

HARLOW: It's within a mile. So is this standard procedure...

LEWIS: Yes.

HARLOW: ... that you would go on lock down in a situation like this even a mile away?

LEWIS: It is absolutely the case, yes. We -- and we follow directions from the police. And so we have direct communication with the Jay (ph) police and follow direction from them as well.

So they notified us right away. And we immediately went on lock down which will be our procedure.

HARLOW: Right. And we're -- we were just looking on our on the screen there at the website. You've obviously put this at your student's on your school's website as well to stay in lock down and to stay in place.

Talk to me a little bit about this community, right? That, you know, from some of the guest that I've heard before that worked in the restaurants nearby and a hair shops nearby, tighten the community. A lot of people they know that worked or utilized these centers for the reserves and for the recruitment. Talk to us about those people.

LEWIS: Well, I don't really know, I'm sorry. I don't know a lot about the building itself. I do know that this is, you know, our campus is not involved. We've not had anyone see or hear anything on our campus. We are being very cautious of course about the situation on high alert.

And so they've got the roads blocked off. The main highway here that were on, blocked off. No one can come in or out, go out or come in on the streets at all.

It's unusual. We would not expect this to happen, the River park area is a lovely area and there's beautiful campus. And so, it is shocking.

HARLOW: Absolutely, it is.

Thank you very much for joining us Eva, the spokesperson.

Therefore, the Chattanooga State Community College that is on lock down.

Please let us know how things progress. I'm glad you and everyone there are safe.

LEWIS: Thank you very much.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Just to update you on our breaking news here on CNN. What we know is that authorities are involved in an active shooter investigation that unfolded shooting just around 10:50 A.M. Eastern Time this morning at the Naval Reserve Center right there in Chattanooga Tennessee.

We know from the Mayor of Chattanooga that one officer is down. We don't know the condition of that officer. We know that several hospitals in the area are on lock down. We know from one witness that someone there has been shot in the back of the leg.

And we also know according to multiple witnesses that it was a man, a man by himself in a convertible silver mustang who pulled out what is being described as a large gun and started shooting indiscriminately, reloading that gun at least once.

We have much more of our breaking news ahead.

Quick break, back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:52:36] HARLOW: All right we're continuing to follow the breaking news out of Chattanooga Tennessee.

Very, very disturbing story to tell you about around 10:50 A.M. this morning a shooting took place at the Naval Reserve Center in Chattanooga Tennessee.

You're looking at pictures from our affiliate WTCV, what we know is a man by himself from multiple witness accounts pulled up in a silver convertible Mustang, pulled out a large rifle we don't know what kind of gun it was and started shooting seemingly and discriminantly at these offices are recruitment offices to recruit people to be in the Navy and the Marines and Army.

We're also told by one witness that this person backed up, reloaded and started shooting again. A few developments for you at local hospitals they're on lock down, local universities on lock down, there's now a temporary flight restriction request there with the FAA in Hamilton County because this person fled. And we simply don't know if police know where he is or have him arrested at this point in time. We just don't know to be very transparent with you.

Let me bring in April Grimmett she's on the phone with me, she is a student there at Hair Academy.

And April if you can hear me I believe you told our producers that you were doing your mother's hair when all of the sudden this broke out, is that right?

APRIL GRIMMETT, WITNESSED SHOOTING AT MILITARY CENTER: That is right. Yeah, I was just, you know, I'm sitting there doing her hair. And my station is actually right by the window.

And my mom looked over and she's like "April, what, there is a guy out there and he's kind of ducking in between cars, I wonder what's going on."

And then shortly after that, is only heard the shots. And I mean it was very loud, it was very loud and very fast.

HARLOW: So you say that, what is it you or your mother who saw the person ducking in and out of cars?

GRIMMETT: We both saw him. I turned and looked. And he had ducked down and he came back up and he was on the phone. And Lisa (ph) just came out of one of the offices that's been our plaza over there.

And I don't know maybe he saw the guy with the gun and was scared and ducked down. But he was like running in between cars and stuff.

HARLOW: OK, so to be clear it sounds like you saw a civilian ducking between cars. Stay with me April, I just want to tell our viewers we have just gotten this image in that you took April of the doors to this recruitment center littered with bullet holes.

GRIMMETT: Yes, I -- when I saw, I cannot believe how many bullet holes are in that door. It was insane. It was just so fast and so loud.

[12:55:08] HARLOW: And can you tell me what some of the officers around that that the door of the entrance or what were they saying, what they're doing when you went up to take the photo?

GRIMMETT: Well, one of my friends looked at to ticket and I was standing behind. And I got what happened they -- I don't exactly what they told them but they we're pretty much should saying to leave and stay safe. And I think -- I don't know, if there is more than one person right there but I know somebody was and there was two ambulance that took people off.

HARLOW: April can you tell a little bit about this recruiting center exactly what goes on there. Is it the National Guard Recruiting Center? Is it something else?

GRIMMETT: Yeah, it's National Guard, I'm not exactly sure what goes in. But it is the recruiting package it's a recruiting office. And I don't know, that's what's crazy to me is that they would go and shoot at this office.

HARLOW: Yeah, exactly for people giving their time to serve this country, it's unfathomable as situations like this always are.

We do know there will be a press conference held in an hours time from now. So we'll learn a lot more of that. When that press conference happens, we'll carry it live for you.

April, can you tell me when you went up to the doors there and you took that picture, were there any employees still inside or had everyone left the recruitment center?

GRIMMETT: Like I said -- there were -- I didn't take the picture myself. Somebody went up to and I'd seen it, so and I was behind.

HARLOW: OK somewhat ...

GRIMMETT: I see it go all the way at the door.

HARLOW: OK so someone, a friend of yours took it or someone has sent to you?

GRIMMETT: Yes.

HARLOW: OK. Do you know if they had any employees still inside or if everyone have been told to leave?

GRIMMET: I'm sure everyone was told to evacuate. There were several then that were walking down by my school. And we asked if it was OK because we did was we walked the door immediately when it happened.

And shortly after we just said, "you know, is it OK to open the doors?" And they're like, "I don't know, you all probably need to go home".

HARLOW: Yeah. Did you see anyone entered because -- I ask because one of other -- our other witnesses Gina did see someone shot in the back of the leg, I'm wondering if you saw anyone injured or transported by ambulance out of there?

GRIMMETT: No I couldn't actually see the person. But I did see two ambulances leave.

HARLOW: You saw two ambulances leave. OK well April ...

GRIMMETT: Yes.

HARLOW: ... thank you very much for being with us, I'm really glad you guys are all right.

GRIMMETT: Thank you, I'm so pretty blessed to be OK and that nobody in our school was very -- I just hope they catch these guys.

HARLOW: Yes so do we, we certainly do and we know law enforcement is all over it.

April, thank you very much. Pamela Brown, to you as she said we hope they catch guys. What are they doing right now?

BROWN: Well I can tell you, just to count all the law enforcement in the area has converged on the scene.

We know the ATF that from to national office is responding. We know the FBI from both the Atlanta office and Knoxville office as well responding to this, other federal agencies as well as local law enforcement.

And so they're all convergent on this. S.W.A.T. typically what happens is S.W.A.T. teams from the FBI were sent in. These tactical teams sent in to secure the scene, find the active shooter or shooters. And make sure everyone is safe, they will go and clear out all the buildings, go room to room. They're also going to be a victim specialist that are there talking to the witnesses, talking to people, helping them through this.

So there's really a myriad of resources that are pouring into this area right now this Chattanooga Military Center as they try to, you know, contain the situation and secure it. And again, we don't know Poppy if a shooter or shooters if they've been found.

HARLOW: Right.

BROWN: What the situation is. But I can tell you with that right there is a top priority for this S.W.A.T. teams on the ground there is securing.

HARLOW: And do they operate on the premise because you've been at multiple of these shootings, the Navy are just few years ago in Washington D.C. Do they operate on the premise that there are could be or armed multiple shooters even though all of these witnesses are saying we saw one man?

BROWN: Absolutely they do. But they, from the very beginning until they confirm there was only one shooter, they operate. And so there are more shooters. Now as we talked about earlier Poppy, in most of these cases, it is a male shooter acting alone.

And the FBI said that this active shooters situations that is a situation. But law enforcement has to operate under the assumption there is more than one person.

So that is the operating assumption until they can confirm only one person is behind this. So just because witnesses are saying they've only seen one shooter, that's not what law enforcement is operating.

HARLOW: Right. They're taking precautions.

Pamela Brown, thank you very much. Pamela with me throughout the hour.

And just to reiterate for you still an active shooter investigation going on in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The mayor saying one officer is down. A witnesses telling us at least one person has been injured. And we do not know at this hour where that shooter is, who pulled up in a silver mustang and started shooting indiscriminately at a Reserve Center there in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

[13:00:05] Let me hand it over to my colleague Wolf Blitzer with more of breaking news right now.