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Police Chief Talks about Rampage; Interview with Slain Marine's Friend; Chattanooga Islamic Center Condemns Shooting

Aired July 17, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:40] CHIEF FRED FLETCHER, CHATTANOOGA TENNESSEE POLICE: Yes. He was shot at least one time in the lower leg and again he's receiving fantastic care, fantastic support from his family and our broader family within the department and the community. And we absolutely believe he will recover and continue to serve our community in the courageous way he did yesterday.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Did he exchange gunfire with the gunman?

FLETCHER: A number of officers exchanged gunfire with the gunman. And like I said, I believe that those actions absolutely, absolutely prevented this vicious gunman from harming more people in our community.

COSTELLO: Because this all unfolded at the recruiting center in that suburban strip mall. Do you know how many shots the gunman fired?

FLETCHER: We don't. There were a lot fired. I think you can see it right behind me, ma'am. There were a number of shots fired. We have multiple teams of investigators, detectives, and evidence recovery teams out here to try to find out exactly that fact to make sure the investigation is a robust and thorough and compelling as possible.

COSTELLO: Was it just a miracle that nobody inside that recruiting center was killed?

FLETCHER: It is absolutely a miracle because this gunman was very obviously intent on harming members of our armed service and our local police department.

COSTELLO: Chief Fletcher, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

FLETCHER: Absolutely. Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

As we've said, we've been down this road before. A young man who seemingly has it all causes a tragedy that's really hard to understand.

With me now CNN contributor and co-author of "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror" is Michael Weiss. Welcome Michael, and thank you so much for being here.

You know, in a certain way this case reminds me of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev -- right.

MICHAEL WEISS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

COSTELLO: Good-looking guy, popular in high school, wrestler, no signs that he was involved in anything nefarious and all of a sudden then his friends say -- what, this guy? This guy?

WEISS: Well, look. Arrested for a DUI, so obviously he had partaken of things that are considered, you know, "haram" in Islam.

COSTELLO: As did Dzhokhar Tsarnaev; he was into marijuana.

WEISS: As did Abu Musab al Zarqawi, the founder of what is today known as ISIS, was an alcoholic in Jordan. So in a sense this is almost out of central casting. There's been a lot of mythology about what creates terrorism, it comes from poverty.

No, actually a lot of these guys come from fairly well-off middle class backgrounds. Mohammed Emwazi, "Jihadi John" as we used to call him or the guy who lopped off the heads of the American hostages now part of ISIS, his father was a petty bourgeois taxi driver in London. Again, I think he had a degree in engineering or something this -- much like this man here.

Look, who did this or who is responsible, this is the question everyone is asking. Is this al Qaeda, is this ISIS? He traveled to the Middle East. What does this mean?

I think the broader point to take away is the atmospherics that have been created in the last two or three years, particularly with the founding of the so-called caliphate and the absolute abundance of jihadi information and propaganda available has made it very conducive for sort of lone wolf or self-radicalized agents such as this guy to simply decide, you know what? I'm going to pick up a couple of assault rifles and go after indeed military targets.

COSTELLO: So it doesn't necessarily have to like communicate directly with anyone.

WEISS: No. No. And this is -- you know, this is what ISIS wants. This is what al Qaeda wants. They want to create a kind of ripple effect or an epiphenomenal effect of having jihadists just sort of come into it themselves without having to make contacts or develop their own network or necessarily even pledge allegiance to one of the two organizations.

COSTELLO: Well, there are a couple clues --

WEISS: Yes.

COSTELLO: -- at least they seem like they're clues right now. When this guy was in high school, Abdulazeez, he wrote in his yearbook, "My name causes national security alerts. What does yours do?"

WEISS: Right.

COSTELLO: Now, he did this when he was 18 years old and his friends say it was just a joke because he was a happy-go-lucky guy in high school, very popular.

WEISS: Sure.

COSTELLO: The other kind of clue came years later in a blog of Islamic parables that authorities suspect was written by Abdulazeez. And this was as recently as July 13. He wrote, quote, "As Muslims, we have a certain understanding of Islam and keep a tunnel vision of what we think Islam is. And we don't have appreciation for other points of view and accept the fact that we may be missing some important parts of the religion." What do you make of that?

WEISS: Well, I mean, that can go one of two ways -- right. I could well see a moderate imam saying the same thing and actually referring to sort of the variety and the multiplicity of Islam and the various interpretations. Or it could mean the more purist, fundamentalist strain.

In other words, we take a very sort of "small c" catholic approach to the faith when in fact the strict salafi jihadist path, following in the footsteps of the prophet -- this is the way to go.

A lot of the guys that we interviewed for the book, who ended up going off to join ISIS for instance, began life as not even pious Muslims. They didn't go to mosques. They didn't celebrate the holy days. They told us that when they joined ISIS, it was as if the scales had fallen from their eyes. Everything they thought they knew about Islam was a myth, it was false. And it was the clerics of ISIS who showed them the true path.

Obviously it seems that that is the latter interpretation is more closely adhering to what this character says.

COSTELLO: Michael Weiss -- thanks for your insight.

WEISS: Sure.

COSTELLO: We appreciate it.

WEISS: No problem.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a guilty verdict for the Colorado theater shooter. Ana Cabrera in Colorado with reaction. Good morning.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol.

Lots of tears, lots of hugs after that verdict was read here at the Arapaho County courthouse. But this trial isn't over yet and I will explain what happens next.

[10:35:03] Plus more reaction from victims' family members when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're getting more information in on some of the marines who were gunned down in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

One of them, Skip Wells, 21 years old. He was a marine. He also attended Georgia Southern. He was a university student. He's from Marietta, Georgia.

And with me now on the phone, a friend of his, a long-time friend, whose name is Garrett Reed. Welcome Garrett and thank you for talking with me this morning.

GARRETT REED, FRIEND OF SLAIN MARINE (via telephone): Not a problem at all.

COSTELLO: Tell me about Skip.

REED: I mean, a lot -- he was a real genuine guy. He had a real caring spirit. Funny dude. He could -- I know throughout all high school and I can't remember all the way back to elementary school but I know in high school, man, during band that boy had me cracking up. He was just a funny guy, real caring. I mean just a real, real nice guy. I mean you couldn't find a nicer guy than him.

[10:40:09] COSTELLO: You have known him since fourth grade, right?

REED: Yes. Since fourth grade.

COSTELLO: Wow. What was your reaction when you heard about this?

REED: Disbelief, you know. Kind of surreal. You know, you never -- you hear about this kind of stuff on the news all the time and you just never think about it could happen to one of your friends, you know. And of all people him. He's like one of the nicest guys you ever meet and you never expect something like this to ever happen to somebody like that, you know.

But I heard about it, you know, and just didn't want to believe it. I still kind of don't, but I mean, you know, it's just -- it's hard, you know, but that's about it. You know, you can't really say anything else about it.

COSTELLO: Do you know why he wanted to be a marine?

REED: He loved this country. His mama served in the military. I believe she was a marine also. I figured he just wanted to follow in her footsteps. I know he was in ROTC in high school. He loved that. I just think, you know, that was just a call that he had. Maybe just following his family's footsteps. I know his family had a long history of military service. I know that's probably why he ended up doing it. COSTELLO: The way this happened, the way he was killed,

allegedly by Mr. Abdulazeez and nobody can really understand why this guy did that, as the details come in about how this went down, what goes through your mind?

REED: Why somebody would take innocent lives for no reason regardless of whatever his motive is, regardless if it was some kind of religious belief of some sort or whatever the case may be. Taking a life, you know, you don't have a heart when you do something like that. You may think it's just another body, but not.

The ripple effect is way farther than just a body. The dude has got friends, family that cares about him, so on and so forth. But people don't think about that kind of stuff when they do stuff like this. It just doesn't compute in their mind.

You know, there's nothing to say about people like that. You know, those kind of people ultimately they do this kind of crap for the exact reason, that they want to be known for something. They have nothing else going in their life or whatever the case may be, they want to get known for it, and that's what happens.

This kind of stuff happens and they get blasted on the media, everybody knows their name and they go down in history for killing somebody when they should just be completely scarlet-lettered and never spoken of again. That's how I feel. These kind of people don't deserve any kind of recognition.

COSTELLO: I appreciate your honesty. Have you talked with the family?

REED: I haven't been able to. As you can imagine, his mother, you know, is probably beyond distraught. I haven't been able to get a hold of her, I sent her a message on Facebook. I have known her ever since I have known him, you know. She's like a second -- she's like another mother to me. She was my bus driver for a little while when I was growing up in middle school, but I haven't been able to get in contact with her.

I probably won't for a while considering. But, no, I haven't been able to get in contact with anybody in his family.

COSTELLO: Garrett Reed, thanks for sharing some information about your very good friend. And I'm sorry for your loss. And I appreciate your talking with me this morning.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:47:51] People who knew the gunman in Chattanooga, Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez described him as religious but not a radical Muslim. You're looking at new pictures there of the mosque he attended in Chattanooga. It's closed today. A sign out front says all activities, including prayers, have been canceled following the tragedy. Dean Obeidallah joins me now with more. He's a columnist for the

"Daily Beast" and host of Sirius XM's "The Dean Obeidallah Show". Welcome Dean -- thanks for being here.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, DAILY BEAST: Thanks -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So we were kind of surprised that they shut the mosque down on such an important day.

OBEIDALLAH: It's interesting because on Facebook there's reaction among my friends who are Muslim and their community. Some being supportive of that and others saying you shouldn't do that. Just have your celebration, have the Eid, and also just pray for the families of the marines who were lost.

Because the leader of the mosque there said we are mourning for the four marines who were lost. And I can tell you, Muslims across America from what I saw on Facebook and leaders of the organizations have said it's a despicable act. It's a horrible act. And we are -- our prayers are with the four families whose lives were taken by this horrible gunman.

But, you know, some are saying by doing this you're associating yourself with this crazy gunman and you're saying maybe it is connected to us as Muslims. So you have this back and forth between -- in the community internally.

COSTELLO: Yes, because I would think, you know, you come together to pray, right, for those four marines and you have the spirit of community and you're together. And then I thought, well, maybe they canceled prayers for safety's sake.

OBEIDALLAH: You know, there have been e-mails by certain Muslim- American organizations to other Muslim leaders in our community saying you should be on guard, you should be worried if someone doesn't look like they're right and they're at your event. Maybe it could be something happening. That could be a factor in it. But I don't think so.

When I read in the "New York Times" the leader of that mosque, and we're doing it out of respect for the marines' families. We want to make it clear we respect them, we're grieving with them and we didn't think having our celebration on this day would be the right thing to do.

COSTELLO: I know that you have been working very hard to get the word out about good Muslims.

OBEIDALLAH: Sure.

COSTELLO: And then something like this happens again.

OBEIDALLAH: Yes.

COSTELLO: So does your work begin anew?. [10:49:57] OBEIDALLAH: The work never ends. I mean we could do

all the work we can in our community and people are doing it all different facets from young Muslims raised about $70,000 to rebuild black churches that were burned down over the last few weeks in the south. That got some press.

You know, I'm doing a Muslim comedy festival next week -- the first one ever. That gets a little press.

But this kind of action trumps all of that and it defines us more in the eyes of our fellow Americans than any of the good things we're doing. And that's part of the struggle.

And to put this in context. I mean this is a horrible act. In America gun violence though is horrific and I think that we should be -- if there's ever a time to have an honest discussion about access to guns, if you're worried about lone wolf terrorists, let's make it harder for them to get guns.

One more step in the change of them getting guns is one more step for police or law enforcement to catch the person to prevent this. so let's have a global conversation. Not just about Muslims, let's talk about gun violence as well. All of us together.

COSTELLO: A tall order, Dean.

OBEIDALLAH: Yes, I know.

COSTELLO: Stay with me, OK --

OBEIDALLAH: Sure.

COSTELLO: -- because on the phone right is Bassam Issa. He's the president of the Islamic Society of Chattanooga. Welcome, sir.

BASSAM ISSA, ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF CHATTANOOGA (via telephone): Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Dean Obeidallah is with me now and he's going to stay here. And we were both wondering why they decided to close the mosque for prayers today.

ISSA: We did not close the mosque but we canceled the morning service because this is like Christmas. It's a festival usually after Ramadan and it's a breaking of the fast. So basically our hearts, our minds did not feel like festival, you know, activities. And based on that we feel this is a very grave tragedy that we're trying to deal with as one community, as Chattanoogans, as Americans, that to do this is just not the right thing it do.

We have our normal prayer today which every Friday we do that at 2:00. We will be there and we will have interfaith -- some of the pastors and other people that come in and the mosque is open for everybody, but the festival part in the morning, that's the one that was canceled.

COSTELLO: Dean wants to ask you a question.

OBEIDALLAH: Bassam -- Eid Mubarak. This is dean Obeidallah. I have a quick question. Some people in the community have been very supportive of what you were doing. Others are saying on some level you're associating yourself more with the actions of this guy who what he did is not about our faith. He has some agenda. We don't know if it has a mental component, if he has been radicalized. We don't know the answer yet.

So what would you say to those people in our community that say you shouldn't have canceled celebration. You should do it, show what we are as Muslims and say we're not going to change our faith because this radical person did something?

ISSA: I'm not aware of anybody -- nobody came to me and told me that we should not have canceled. That's the first time I hear about it.

OBEIDALLAH: I see it more on Facebook and social media. It goes back and forth. There are many people being supportive but others are saying why. I'm just asking you that. I'm not telling you it's the wrong thing --

ISSA: Why what?

OBEIDALLAH: Why cancel the event? Why not still have it and honor the marines in that? Why not do it that way and continue to have the Eid celebration.

ISSA: We will honor the marines today. And two things -- we're going to be at the normal prayer and then we also are going to be at the vigil for the entire Chattanooga with the mayor being there, all the people of faith -- Christians, Jews, us -- we are all going to be as a community there.

OBEIDALLAH: Right.

ISSA: Every Muslim in this city was told where this is going to be, and we will be a lot of us there this evening at 5:30 at the church downtown. So we are doing that and, you know, we grieve for the families of our loved marines and we condemn this act very strongly just like any other American.

We don't think of ourselves as Muslims first. We think of ourselves as Americans who happen to be Muslims. Just like if you are an American happen to be Christian. We are not apart from the community.

For example, I lived here for 41 years. I know every little corner of every street. This is my town. This is my people. Everybody knows my face. I know everybody in this town. It's a small city of 300, 400 and the same thing with most of our community members have been here for decades.

The person that did this, his father works for the city of Chattanooga in the Storm Water Department and he's a person that normal person like any other American. This is a shocking thing.

OBEIDALLAH: Yes.

ISSA: Everybody is in disbelief. It's just -- we're just as in the dark as anybody else in this thing.

COSTELLO: Did you know this young man?

[10:54:57] ISSA: This young man, my understanding that about the time we opened the Islamic center about two years ago, he had moved overseas to live with relatives. And recently my understanding he has come back. He's an engineer and went to Nashville and he's working somewhere with a company in Nashville. Apparently he has come because of Ramadan to visit his family that lives here.

We don't know much about the man. I personally don't have much contact with him, and that's really what it is.

COSTELLO: Bassam Issa, thank you so much for joining me. Dean Obeidallah, thanks to you, too. I appreciate it.

ISSA: Thank you so much.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much.

Thanks to you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan after a break.

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