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Chattanooga Attack; Nation Mourns Chattanooga Murders; Gunman's Possible Bloggings. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 17, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: We're also learning the identity of all four Marines killed. CNN can now confirm Sergeant Carson Holmquist (ph) was killed. Also these two Marines, Lance Corporal Skip Wells, just 21 years old; and Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Sullivan, who survived two tours of duty in Iraq but was killed on U.S. soil; and 38-year-old Chattanooga husband and father, Staff Sergeant David Wyatt, by a gunman armed with an AK-47-style gun, hitting two military facilities. The first in his cross-hairs, a military recruiting center inside a suburban strip mall. The gunman, driving by in a convertible and spraying the window, as we see right here, with bullets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINA MULE, WITNESS (voice-over): I seen the guy in his car. It was a silver Mustang, drop top, a white guy, and he had a high-powered rifle. It wasn't simultaneously, but it was pow, pow, pow and he was just firing shots over here, right next door to us, into the Air Force, Navy and Marines office. And I - I mean I can't - I don't even know how many shots he fired, but it was a lot.

LANEESHA LEWIS, WITNESS: And he just pulled up and I didn't think anything of it. He had his drop top and he looked to the side, and the next thing you know, he lifted up his arms like this with a big black gun and just - it was one shot and then it was just endless shots, one after another, just unloading into the Army.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Incredibly, no one was killed in that attack, but it was a different story seven miles away on his final stop, a Navy operational support center, where he rammed into the front gate and then opened fire. Police say he had a seemingly endless amount of ammunition. All four murders happening here. A police officer also wounded. The gunman eventually killed in the firefight. That's Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez. He was 24-years-old and a University of Tennessee at Chattanooga grad. A trained mixed martial artists. And you see him here in the gray army shorts. We were also, we're told, a devout Muslim.

Joining me now to discuss all of this, CNN's Victor Blackwell, at the scene of the first shooting.

So, Victor, what's the latest on the investigation?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that there are still FBI agents here on scene more than a day, more than 25 hours now after this rampage began.

Two other things. I just had a conversation with someone with the chief's office from the Chattanooga Police Department in which we've learned that there were very likely dash cameras on these vehicles that were recording at the time of these shootings. So quite possibly soon we could actually - or investigators could see video of what happened at that naval reserve center.

Also, the conversation with Chief Fred Fletcher of the Chattanooga Police Department, he confirmed to CNN that after calls came in from workers at this location, calls to 911, his officers followed - and that was the word he used -- followed Abdulazeez's car before he reached that naval reserve center. He did not say how long before he reached that center that the officers followed, but he said after he reached that - that area, they then engaged and a source confirms that's when an officer shot him. So - so not only could we see possibly - or investigators could see how this all ended, but we now know that police were actually following - they were very careful not to use the word "chase," but was following this suspect before he reached that area and shot and killed four Marines.

BROWN: And, Victor, is there any indication of why he was so careful to not say "chase" because you would think if they're going after someone who just opened fire, that it would be a chase?

BLACKWELL: You know, I don't know why. I mean when I was having the conversation, we actually had it live on this network a couple of hours ago in which the chief said that they engaged. That was his term. And some of it is just officers speak. Engaged and then there was this shootout. But he - he said that - I'm not avoiding the word "chase." Maybe it's semantics. But he used the word "follow." I think that's still important that at some point before he reached that center and killed four Marines, he was following - or police officers were following that suspect.

BROWN: And we hope to learn more in this press conference coming up.

Victor Blackwell, thank you so much.

And so we know that this gunman was not on any American databases for suspected terrorists. In fact, a drunken driving charge just a few months ago was his only brush with the law. And by all accounts so far, his suspected radicalization was not obvious to those who knew him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALMIR DLZDAREVIC, GUNMAN'S MIXED MARTIAL ARTS COACH: His demeanor, that - it was obviously nothing on him that would show me that he was upset about something, you know? And I know that he moved out of the country about two - a year or two ago. He went back home and he stayed overseas. And I asked his dad about, where's Mohammad? You know, I haven't seen him in a while and stuff. He said, he moved back home. But I saw him a couple of times when he visited. Now, I'm not the one to speculate, but what happens overseas in certain different environments, I don't know. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean he seemed - he seemed like the all-American

kid. I mean he - you know, never - never loud, never boisterous, never got out of line, a hard worker. You know, seemed to enjoy, you know, the training and, you know, got along with everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:10] BROWN: And joining me now, Drew Griffin, CNN senior investigative correspondent.

Drew, we've learned through officials that he wasn't on any American databases for suspected terrorists. He wasn't on the FBI's radar. But at one stage his father was investigated and you're learning more about him, is that right?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're learning more about the family. We do know that his father was investigated twice apparently some years ago. He gave money to some charities over in the Middle East and because of that, the transfer of money, he was investigated. Pamela, you might remember, you know, in post-9/11 times, there were a lot of people from, you know, from Muslim - Middle Eastern descent here who would send money back to what they thought was a charitable organization, later turned out to be supportive of Hamas or Hezbollah, and that raised security concerns. But both times the father was cleared.

There is indications now, though, Pamela, that, number one, this family is Palestinian, not Kuwaiti or Jordan. The Jordanian government seems to indicate that they are from Palestine. And in divorce papers, which we've just gotten ahold of, that shows this was less than the idealic kind of American family that this suspect grew up in. The mother also states that the family's native state is Palestine. Those divorce papers were filed in February of 2009. And in it, Rasmia (ph) Abdul (ph) Aziz (ph) says that her husband beat her, beat the children, verbally abused her, sexually assault her. At one point he beat the plaintiff so severely, this is from the court papers, that she has fled the marital home and went to a crisis center. And in the line that I just quoted to you about Palestinian, she also said the defendant intends to take a second wife permitted under Islamic law - this is according to the wife - in the party's native state of Palestine.

This - the couple went through a very, very rough time in February of 2009. There was some intervention by the wife, Rasmia's brothers, who came from both Kuwait and Washington, D.C., to kind of intervene. And then in February 27th of 2009, even after all these allegations were filed and several hearings were held, the whole matter was dropped. So - without prejudice. So the couple remains married, but they did have apparently, according to the mother of this suspect, a very rough marriage, at least back in 2009.

Pamela.

BROWN: Yes, sounds very tumultuous. Drew Griffin, thank you so much.

And to talk about all of this, I want to bring in Buck Sexton, CNN political commentator and former CIA counterterrorism analyst.

So, Buck, thanks for coming on.

The first big question is, we're learning now about the father was the center of an FBI terrorism investigation. There were inquiries opened on him twice and then closed. How relevant do you think that is to the current investigation involving the shooter?

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's very difficult to say because there's still so many holes in that. I mean, look, there are some things here that fit into a pretty clear pattern of attacks, terrorist attacks, in the past based on the targets and the execration from the Islamic state to go after the specific targets of military or police, stretching back to the beginning of the year. So some things absolutely line up already and that's why it's clearly a terrorist attack and it seems almost certain that it is a jihadist terrorist attack as well.

But when you look at sort of the - the background issues of the family, difficulties, radicalization that may have occurred either in the home or without the home even know, we're finding all of that stuff out. So - but it's important to note that there's no clear template of who becomes a jihadist, that all these issues, the problems that come from the home, whether it's poverty or it's abuse, any of those things can be contributing factors of somebody deciding that they will radicalize and they will take that step of violent jihad.

BROWN: Maybe expedite the process.

SEXTON: It could expedite the process. It could make it faster and it could be a contributing factor, but that doesn't - you don't go one, two, three. It's not, I come from a rough background or I come from an impoverished background or any of those things or even I have radicalized parents -

BROWN: Or I'm - or my - yes, or even that state (ph), you know -

SEXTON: Even radicalized parents do not necessarily mean radicalized children and certainly vice versa. And as we see from some of the most well-known terrorists in our - in history, Osama bin Laden, Ayman al- Zawahiri, very wealthy terrorists, very well-educated terrorists. I mean those are - actually the norm, in some cases, is middle class to upper middle class in the society that terrorists tend to come from. So when we look into these background factors, I think it's easy to get lost in the fact that the - what we're looking for here is, was this motivated by jihad. And none of these other things necessarily take it to the place where, OK, well that's why the decision to wage jihad was made. They might have been contributing factors, but that sort of background noise from the ideological decision to wage war in the name of the Islamic state or as part of a jihad.

BROWN: And right now they're trying to put the mosaic together. They're putting all the pieces of that puzzle together. But what it seems like, Buck, this reflects is the concern that we've been hearing from law enforcement of someone they weren't aware of. Someone who became radicalized, it appears, and people around him didn't know about it, at least not that what we're hearing, and then one day he decides, I'm going to go, you know, shoot up two military facilities.

[14:10:23] SEXTON: This is -

BROWN: This is what we've been hearing about this concern.

SEXTON: When I was in the NYPD intelligence division, we would look at the scale and the scope of the various threats and you would always sort of have to break down those who had some sense of operational security. Essentially, can they keep their mouths shut? Do they understand that by being loud about jihadist intentions, they direct more attention to themselves and that in itself could disrupt the plot.

What we've seen over the last six or eight months is a number of these plots that have been disrupted for that reason, with an individual like this because it seems he didn't leave quite the same trail. We'll find out more. Perhaps there was encrypted communication. He isn't even -

BROWN: (INAUDIBLE).

SEXTON: Right. He's an even greater threat than these other individuals who are very loud, who have radicalized almost in public among their friends. And when I mean loud, I don't mean that they're walking around on the streets say this, but online.

BROWN: Right, like they're on social media.

SEXTON: Posting on social media and getting very involved with ISIS affiliated accounts. So the greater threat is exactly this because to catch somebody from the process of radicalization and sort of a hard line Salafism and Islamism into an actual jihadization, I mean they're going to take action and engage in a terrorist attack, that can happen very quickly. I know there's some -

BROWN: Like a flash to bang.

SEXTON: And to try to catch somebody in the middle of that process, when they go from belief into illegal activity, to terrorist activity and to murder and bloodshed, that's asking a lot of law enforcement. And they're not going to be able to catch it every time. They're probably not going to be able to catch it most of the time when it's an individual who has some sense of care and operational security so he doesn't get caught. So this is the greater threat and there's only so much we can do to try to prevent this.

BROWN: It's that, you know, the time between aspirational to operational is collapsing and it really presents an incredible challenge to law enforcement. The people I've been speaking with in the law enforcement community say it's the unknown that worries them the most and it seems like this could be an example of that, what they've been most worried about.

Buck Sexton, thank you. Do the shooter's apparent blog postings give investigators any clue

about his motive? Coming up, we're going to take a look at what he wrote.

Plus, the Marines, they protect this country, only to lose their lives right here at home. Next, the emotional and honest words from their loved ones left behind.

And as investigators try and figure out whether he was associated with any terror group, the Pentagon today saying the world's war on ISIS will last 10 to 20 years. How did they get that timetable?

This is CNN's special live coverage. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:42] BROWN: The nation has joined the families mourning the loss of their loved ones in yesterday's tragic shooting. Four Marines died in that unprovoked attack. All four servicemen have now been identified and they are 21-year-old Skip Wells from Marietta, Georgia. He spent time at Georgia Southern University as a history major. Forty-year-old Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Sullivan from Springfield, Massachusetts. He earned a purple heart and completed two tours in Iraq. Thirty-eight-year-old Chattanooga father and husband David Wyatt, and 27-year-old Wisconsin native Sergeant Carl Holmquist. People who knew some of the victims, families, say that it's a sad day and that a lot of people are hurting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SHEREMETA, KNEW SULLIVAN FAMILY: The family, I'm sure, is crushed by this incident. It's got to be so shocking and a needless loss. I mean these acts of violence are just out of hand.

MARY CLARK, SPRINGFIELD RESIDENT: Great, great family. They - it's just horrifying, horrifying to have this happen to a family and to people that serve our country. They didn't need this. And now you've got to watch your surroundings, you really do, because you never know what's going to happen next, especially with somebody like this or anybody else that serves their country, they don't deserve this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Skip Wells' mom issued this statement right here. "My son died doing what he loved for the love of his country and his family."

And here with more on what we've learned about the slain Marines is CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns.

Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, the full measure of this terrible attack coming into view in communities stretching from the northeast to the Midwest, all the way down to the southeast, outpouring of sympathy on social media and elsewhere, church vigils, blood donations. And, yes, we can publicly identify all four of the Marines who were killed in those attacks. They are Carson Holmquist, Thomas Sullivan, Skip Wells, David Wyatt. The Pentagon now releasing the names.

And some details gathered by CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr that corrects and refines some of the information we've been reporting all morning.

Starting with the last name we were holding out on, Marine Sergeant Carson Holmquist, 27 years old, we think, hometown listed by the military as Polk, Wisconsin, an Afghanistan campaign medal to his credit. He was an automotive maintenance technician.

Sullivan is Marine Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Sullivan, reportedly shot to death at the Naval Reserve Support Center, 40 years old. Reported to be an Iraq War veteran, Purple Heart recipient from the state of Massachusetts, the Springfield area. Apparently believed to have been in the military for more than a decade and a half, served two tours in Iraq, got the Iraq campaign medal. There are reports that he worked in the past as a Marine recruiter. An irony that he would survive combat in Iraq and killed by gunfire here.

The other two we're identifying, Lance Corporal Skip Squire (ph) Wells, 21-years-old, said to be a member of the Marine Forces Reserve from Cobb, Georgia. He is the one who attended Georgia Southern. Straight out of boot camp from what we can tell. We have some sound, I think, from a close friend of Wells named Garrett Reed, who's known Wells since elementary school. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARRETT REED, FRIEND OF SKIP WELLS: I mean he loved this country. You know, his mama - his mama served in the military. He - I think - I believe she was a Marine, also. So I figured she just - I figured he just wanted to follow in her footsteps. I know he was in ROTC in high school. He loved that, you know. I just think, you know, that's just a calling that he had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:13] JOHNS: And the final member is Staff Sergeant David Wyatt, said to be 38 years old, reported to be from Tennessee, but the military has listed his hometown as Burke, North Carolina. Husband, father, also received an Iraq campaign medal. So that's a picture of the ones who died and, obviously, we'll be refining that information as it comes in, Pamela.

BROWN: Just heartbreaking for their families.

Joe, there are also three people who were injured. What do we know about them and is there any update on their conditions?

JOHNS: Well, of those who were injured and their injuries were not fatal, there is a sailor named Randall Smith who was shot in the stomach. He sounds, by far, like the most seriously injured. There was a Chattanooga policeman shot in the ankle, treated and released, and an unidentified Marine who was also treated and released and we do not have their names as of yet, Pamela.

BROWN: OK, Joe Johns, I know you will stay on this story. Thank you very much.

And up next right here in NEWSROOM, this shooting in Chattanooga has some asking, is it time to rethink and review security procedures at military recruiting centers? We're going to discuss that up next.

Plus, how long will it take to defeat ISIS? Well, the Army chief of staff today coming forward with a sobering timetable.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:43] BROWN: We have seen this before, a young man who seemingly has it all causes a tragedy that is difficult to comprehend. A blog reportedly written by the shooter is providing few clues. As recent as July 13th, there's an entry that says this. Take a look. "Brothers and sisters, don't be fooled by your desires. This life is short and bitter and the opportunity to submit to Allah may pass you by."

Joining me now to discuss all of this, Harris Zafar, the national spokesman of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA. He's also the vice president of the group's youth association. And also joining me is, of course, Cedric Alexander, CNN law enforcement analyst.

Thank you so much for being here with us.

HARRIS ZAFAR, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, AHMADIYYA MUSLIM COMMUNITY: Thank you so much.

Harris, I'm going to start with you.

We just looked at that - the quote from the blog that he wrote in the days leading up to the shootings. What do you make of that posting?

ZAFAR: Yes. So I read through the blog and, of course, it's allegedly his. We're still waiting for confirmation. Only two posts made on the same day, three days before the attack. And when you combine this - you can't look at anything in a vacuum, obviously. So when you combine this with his other behavior, being arrested for drunken driving, so being under the influence of alcohol, of other intoxicants of being high, and then obviously this violent actions and in his life before, what we see is a - a youth that has a crisis in its past. Not really understanding what his life is. He has staunchly religious parents, but he is performing actions like being high and drunk that are strictly, strictly forbidden in Islam. So you see him, on one end, being very un-Islamic with his behavior and then suddenly you see him going to the mosque and then suddenly he's arrested again and then suddenly now, three days before the attack, he posted these things about being in the path of Allah. And then three days later, he commits the most cardinal sin, which is taking innocent life. So what we see is a youth that doesn't really have an identity and doesn't have a sense of belonging and that's where, with the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, what we say is, that's where leadership matters, because the leadership is what is going to set a director for these naive and discontented youth and so what - what are the leaders doing out there to guide them towards the right path.

BROWN: That is the big question.

Cedric, to you. I want to listen to what House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Michael McCaul just said in a news conference. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, CHAIRMAN, HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: I would think that, particularly in light of the events that occurred yesterday, that recruitment centers and training centers need to heighten their sense of security as well, including the idea of having armed personnel to defend themselves. I think, you know, as the gentleman pointed out, they are very, very soft targets, which may be precisely why this individual chose that target because realizing he couldn't get on this base, a training center is a lot easier to hit. It's a much softer target.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Cedric, do you agree?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, absolutely I do.

But let me start by saying this first, Brooke, my hearts and prayers go out to our families and friends of those U.S. Marines who lost their lives on the homeland.

Absolutely I agree. Soft targets, such as those recruiting centers, oftentimes all of us know they are situated in our communities, in our cities across this country and they're where many of our young people go to learn information about becoming a military man or woman and those targets are very soft and generally, certainly meaning, they're very unsecured. So I think there's going to need to be, and I hope there's going to be some conversation going forward in which we're going to look at maybe hardening those targets in a way to the extent, well, those military personnel have some way of protecting themselves.

We live in a very, very different time now and I think we have to certainly take that under consideration in light of what we're seeing that's happening domestically and also what is being influenced upon this country internationally as well, too.

BROWN: Well, let's talk about that, Cedric, because there are these gun-free zones in the military at these recruitment centers. They don't have weapons. And only certain people on bases can have weapons. Do you think they need to take a - a closer look at that and perhaps change that and why does - why does this have to happen after such a tragedy like this for security to be boosted at these, you know, military facilities?

[14:30:07] ALEXANDER: Well, I think, Pamela, and, you know, here again, we have not had this experience in which we're seeing in this country today.