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Dash Cam Video of Sandra Bland's Arrest Released; Four More Commercial Flights Hit by Laser Beams; Texas Safety Dept.: Video Was Not Edited; Obama Pitches Plan on "The Daily Show". Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 22, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:01] PEREIRA: And I'm telling you. Entrepreneur, good spirit, community, I love it.

CAMEROTA: Beautiful.

Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.

Good morning, Carol.

PEREIRA: Hello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I was talking to Paul Callan over here with me.

PEREIRA: That's all right. Hey, Paul.

COSTELLO: It's not that I wasn't paying attention to you, guys.

PEREIRA: Right.

CAMEROTA: Of course not.

CUOMO: No, never.

COSTELLO: Never. Have a great day. Thanks so much.

NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. I will light you up. Get out.

COSTELLO: A traffic stop for failure to signal.

SANDRA BLAND: Don't touch me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.

COSTELLO: Escalating. Leading to an arrest.

BLAND: You just pulled me out of my car. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around.

BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kidding me?

COSTELLO: But did someone edit this dash cam video recorded just days before Sandra Bland died?

Also Donald Trump talks.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You have this guy, Lindsey Graham, a total lightweight.

COSTELLO: As much of the GOP pack hits the trail.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The problem with Mr. Trump's language is its divisive.

COSTELLO: Will the Donald dominate today's stump speeches?

Plus hackers take control of a reporter's moving car. How they can cut the brakes, mess with the electronics and more.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Breaking news out of Ferguson, Missouri, this morning. Nearly one year after the shooting death of a black teenager by a white police officer, a new interim police chief has been hired. Andre Anderson, an African-American police commander from Glendale, Arizona, will lead the Ferguson Police Department.

The old police chief resigned in the wake of Michael Brown's death after a Justice Department report revealed that Ferguson's police officers practiced racial profiling.

The official announcement is expected in the next hour. And of course we'll bring that to you live.

Also new developments this morning in the death of Sandra Bland. She's the woman found dead in her jail cell after she was arrested during a traffic stop. Texas state officials have now released a police dash cam video of Bland's arrest revealing a routine traffic stop that quickly spirals out of control. At one point the officer threatened to, quote, "light up" Bland with a taser.

There are some serious questions about this video from the actions of the officer to whether or not the tape was edited before it's released. We'll get to that in just a minute. But first I want to show you the moment where tensions boiled over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out or I will remove you. I'm giving you a lawful order. Get out of the car now or I'm going to remove you.

BLAND: And I'm calling my lawyer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to yank you out of here.

BLAND: OK. You're going to yank me out of my car?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out.

BLAND: OK. All right. Let's do this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we're going to.

BLAND: Yes. Let's -- don't touch me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.

BLAND: Don't touch me. I'm not under arrest. You don't have the right to take me from my car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are under arrest.

BLAND: I'm under arrest for what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 25-27 County FM, 10-98.

BLAND: For what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Send me another unit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. Get out of the car, now.

BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You try to give me a ticket for --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said get out of the car.

BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You opened my car door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to drag you out of here.

BLAND: So you guys are going to drag me out of my own car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. I will light you up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. You see that highlighted area, that was a stun gun, and that's when the officer said, "I will light you up." Sandra Bland got out of the car then.

Ed Lavandera is live in Hempstead, Texas, with more.

Good morning, Ed.

Good morning. A lot of mistrust already boiling over in the case of Sandra bland. This video released this morning doesn't really do anything to smooth those tensions over.

Step out of the car.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Carol. Well, a lot of mistrust already boiling over in the case of Sandra Bland. Family members who do not believe the official line that investigators have said that Sandra Bland committed suicide here in this jail in Hempstead, Texas. And this video released this morning doesn't really do anything to smooth those tensions over.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Newly released dash cam video of 28-year-old Sandra Bland's arrest is raising new questions about what really took place just three days before she was found dead in this Texas jail cell. For starters the 52-minute video of the traffic stop and her arrest appears to have several discrepancies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.

BLAND: Don't touch me.

LAVANDERA: Watch as the white vehicle driving on the left suddenly vanishes from the road and this brief moment where a tow truck driver walks away from the dash cam's view then quickly reappears at the truck's door. Immediately following a scene repeat. All the while the audio is playing uninterrupted.

It's not clear whether the video was edited or if an equipment issue was to blame. All of this casting doubt if the video reflects a continuous account of the heated encounter with Texas State Trooper Brian Encina.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to drag you out of here.

BLAND: So you're going -- you guys are going to drag me out of my own car?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. I will light you up. Get out.

BLAND: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.

BLAND: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.

BLAND: For a failure to signal? You're doing all of this for a failure to signal?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there. [09:05:02] LAVANDERA: A bystander captured images of the trooper

holding Bland to the ground but dash cam video caught what she is saying.

BLAND: You're a real man now. You just slammed me and knocked my head in the ground. I got epilepsy you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good.

BLAND: I hope --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should have thought about that before you start resisting.

BLAND: OK.

LAVANDERA: Authorities say Bland later committed suicide in her cell. This is a look inside where she spent her final hours. The Texas Department of Public Safety says Trooper Encina failed to comply with the department's standards for professionalism. He's been pulled off patrol duty as state officials investigate. Police say they are looking into Bland's death as a murder.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: A spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety says they will be looking at this video to try to offer some sort of explanation. We do not know if it was deliberately edited or if it's some sort of a computer malfunction. Those are the answers we're waiting on seeing but, Carol, ultimately here as dramatic and as tense as this video shows it really doesn't shed a whole lot of light as to how Sandra Bland ended up dead three days later here in this jail cell -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Ed Lavandera, reporting live from Texas this morning. Thanks so much.

With me CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and Rashid Abdul-Salaam, a former deputy sheriff and now a security consultant.

I want you both to watch the initial exchange. This is what happens right after the officer comes back to Bland's car with a ticket. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you mind putting out your cigarette please? Would you mind?

BLAND: I'm in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you can step out now.

BLAND: I don't have to step out of my car. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.

BLAND: Why am I --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.

BLAND: No, you don't have the right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.

BLAND: You do not have the right to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do have the right. Now step out or I will remove you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Rashid, why did the officer asked her to put out her cigarette?

RASHID ABDUL-SALAAM, FORMER DEPUTY SHERIFF: Well, I have no idea. I know that being a former patrol deputy myself and making hundreds of car stops it makes me reflect on my time during the police academy. And in the police academy you go through situational training where you have these type of high tense scenarios where each of the individuals in this scenarios are police officers themselves and then you have your training instructors basically scrutinizing how you adjust to these type of scenarios.

Look, that scenario in it of itself is actually a scenario during situational training where you have a car stop and you have an agitated driver. And then how you deal with that type of situation, you receive this in training. Now as far as I know, I don't know any law in the country, any traffic code or otherwise, where it says a driver can't smoke their cigarette while they're stopped by the police officer or even talking to a police officer.

It would be different if she was blowing smoke in the officer's face but according to what we hear on the audio this was not happening. So actually what you're seeing is, and I saw the tape in its entirety over and over again, what I see is she complied to pulling her vehicle over. Obviously before he went to the vehicle he had to run her tags and he found that there was no wants or warrants on those tags and that tag in fact belonged to that vehicle.

Then he had to have gotten her driver's license which she gave him and he found there was no warrants on her. So now he comes back to give a warning, I understand. Why she needs to put her cigarette out I don't understand. He's created or he created a theater in which it was totally unnecessary to even go to that type of scenario.

COSTELLO: OK. So from a legal perspective, Paul, did she have to obey the officer when he said put out your cigarette and get out of the car?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I want to start out by saying regardless of where the law comes out on this, what I tell my kids and my clients is don't get into an argument with a cop. He's got handcuffs and a gun, and you're going to lose that argument. And sadly a human life has been lost here as a -- whether she was in the right --

COSTELLO: But I would say that --

CALLAN: Whether she's in the right or in the wrong.

COSTELLO: But thousands and thousands of people have argued traffic tickets.

CALLAN: Well, you can argue them but what I'm saying is, he has handcuffs and a gun. You're going to wind up under arrest. OK. So it's not a good idea out on the road to get into a big argument with a cop. Submit and then sue them later on. All right. Hire a lawyer and sue them and maybe the day will end OK for you. Not the way her day ended.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So you're suggesting --

CALLAN: Now that being said --

COSTELLO: Anything the police officer asks me to do I should just do it without question.

CALLAN: If it's reasonable. And let me tell what --

COSTELLO: But what's reasonable and what's not?

CALLAN: Well, let me tell you that. OK. Here's what the law says. If the cop has the right to make a stop he can make a stop. Now he says she changed lanes. OK. Now that's an unusual stop. Not many people get pulled over for that, so I'm suspicious of that to begin with. But if it's true he had the right to stop the vehicle. Once he stops the vehicle he has the right legally to make inquiry of the driver and if for any reason he feels threatened by the behavior of the driver he can ask the driver to exit the vehicle. That's legally permissible and that's what he did here.

[09:10:09] Now in terms of putting the cigarette out, I agree with Rashid, there is nothing in the law that says anything about putting cigarettes out. However, if subjectively this officer -- and I'll tell you what's going to happen in this case. He's going to meet with his lawyer and he's going to say that he was threatened, he was afraid she was going to flick the cigarette at him, and put him in some kind of danger. OK.

A piece of paper could create that danger. It's a subjective determination by the officer. So he told her to put the cigarette out. He has the right now to tell her to come out of the vehicle. She refuses to exit the vehicle. Now she has given him a situation where he probably can put her under arrest and obviously that's what he did. Now, this incident with respect to the suicide, now we're talking about an entirely different thing.

COSTELLO: Right.

CALLAN: Was the officer at the jail? Is there independent proof here by the medical examiner suggesting suicide? This traffic stop then turns into a murder case. So what I'm saying ultimately is this. OK. It's smart not to get into this kind of dispute on the street with these guys because you've got a cop with a temper, gun and handcuffs, you're going to pay for it, OK?

Number two, there's going to be at least an argument that the cop can make that the stop was justified and he's going to say she got out of hand. I don't agree with this defense but that's what they're going to say, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Carol --

COSTELLO: Got to go quickly, but give me your last thoughts, Rashid. Go ahead.

ABDUL-SALAAM: My last thoughts is we have to understand that officers are bound to uphold the public trust. And because you're having a bad day or because you don't like someone being flipping, does not justify you going to an extreme. I stop hundreds of people who were agitated or whatever. It didn't result in them being arrested and it didn't result in them going to jail then subsequently committing suicide. There is a public trust that law enforcement officers have to acknowledge.

COSTELLO: Rashid Abdul-Salaam, Paul Callan, thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

We'll talk more about this in the next hour of NEWSROOM.

New developments on a dangerous trend involving lasers and passenger planes. Just last week we told you about some scary moments in the sky. Well, it's happened again.

Let's bring in CNN's aviation correspondent Rene Marsh. She's in Washington.

You're kidding.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: No, I wish I was, Carol. But we're not. The FAA saying this morning that four more attacks over the New York and New Jersey area. They happened Tuesday night between 9:25 and 12:10 a.m. That's according to the FAA.

You're looking at the airlines effected. It was an American Airlines flight, Express Jet flight, Shuttle America, as well as Spirit. Of course as you mentioned off the top this comes after last week when we were talking about 35 aircraft hit with lasers all in one night last Wednesday. We have seen the number of these so-called laser strikes really spike up. When you look at the FAA records you see that in 2014 there were nearly 4,000 of them and at the pace we're going at this year we are set to essentially top last year's number.

These lasers, the danger here, of course, and you're looking at what it looks like from the sky. The danger is that it can temporarily blind these pilots. Even landed some of these pilots in the hospital. Not a situation you want to have when you're thousands of feet in the air and you want your pilot to essentially be very focused on landing the plane and on the controls -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Rene Marsh reporting live from Washington this morning. Thank you.

He was one of the few terrorists in the world who knew about 9/11 before it happened. Now the U.S. military believes he is dead. According to the Pentagon the leader of an al Qaeda offshoot known as the Khorasan Group was killed by a U.S. drone strike while traveling in a vehicle near the Syrian border.

A Pentagon spokesman says the death of the Kuwaiti born jihadi will, quote, "degrade and disrupt ongoing external operations of al Qaeda against the United States and our allies and partners.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, 16 GOP candidates but all the talk is about only one, Donald Trump. What toll is that taking on the party? We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:26] COSTELLO: All right. I want to bring you back to Hempstead, Texas, to check in with Ed Lavandera. Remember, we just showed you that dashcam video involving a traffic stop of Sandra Bland by police officer. Bland later allegedly committed suicide in her jail cell.

There was a sense that some of that dashcam video had been edited. But now, police has a response. What are they saying, Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, shortly after we saw that video last night, we reached out to a spokesperson for the Texas Department of Public Safety. They have gotten back to us and they say that the video was not edited. They say there was a technical issue during the posting of that video and that the Texas Department of Public Safety is working to correct the video when it was provided online to the news media outlet.

So, once that was reposted, we'll be able to go through it again and see if there's any glitches. Those glitches have caused a great deal of concern over the last 12 to 15 hours of people having watching that video rather intensely and in those moments, you see in various parts of the video, about 20 minutes in or so, cars and portions of the video looping over and these glitches that appeared rather odd.

So, it was coming at a time in the video where you could hear the patrol officer speaking with what we believe is his supervisor describing what had just happened during the arrest of Sandra Bland.

But right now, Texas DPS officials saying that the video was not edited and it was a computer glitch and that they're working to correct that video.

[09:20:00] And it appears that they will repost it here at some point this morning.

COSTELLO: All right. Ed Lavandera, we'll check back. Thanks so much.

In the world of politics, the White House is ramping up its efforts to sell the Iran nuclear deal to a hostile Congress and a skeptical public, and even a studio audience. President Obama visited "The Daily Show" and Jon Stewart to pitch the agreement with America's long time enemy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is an adversary. They are anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic. They sponsor terrorist organizations like Hezbollah.

JON STEWART, COMEDY CENTRAL: Sounds like a good partner for peace.

OBAMA: Probably. Well, as has been said frequently, you don't make peace with your friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Jeff Zeleny is CNN senior Washington correspondent.

Good morning, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Jeff, the president had earlier addressed a national convention of the VFW. He's really casting a wide net in selling this deal, right?

ZELENY: He sure is. I mean, going to the VFW on the hand, to "The Daily Show" and Jon Stewart on the other, but making the same point that all across the board that the U.S. is trying diplomacy, that U.S., you know, is recognizing that Iran is still an enemy in one respect, but the president believes the best way to sort of deal with that is through diplomacy.

But, Carol, I can tell you, it still faces an uphill climb, so much skepticism in Congress. You know, so many Republicans -- virtually every Republican across the board opposes this. Even so many Democrats, even some Democratic leaders are skeptical of this. So, I think the White House knows it still has a big sales job and explanation job ahead of it.

COSTELLO: OK. So, we have to talk Donald Trump because right now it seems that all roads lead to Mr. Trump. So, of course, President Obama's conversation with Jon Stewart turned to the flame-throwing presidential candidate. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I'm sure the Republicans are enjoying Mr. Trump's current dominance of their primary.

STEWART: Anything that makes them look less crazy.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: They're all giddy about it, right?

ZELENY: Well, they're giddy about it. I mean, Democrats certainly are giddy about it. You know, if you're on the Democratic side of things, you think that Donald Trump is the best thing that's happened to you.

But I'm not sure Republicans are quite as giddy about it. They believe he is overtaking the entire process here. If you're one of those many Republican candidates trying to get attention, I don't know, say, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, Rick Santorum, John Kasich, you just are not getting the attention here. Donald Trump is dominating all of it here.

So, that's the only side that's not giddy about this, Carol, are the Republican presidential candidates.

COSTELLO: All right. Jeff Zeleny, many thanks to you. I appreciate it.

As you heard, President Obama taking a bit of a jab at Donald Trump, but we'll take a break from the campaign trail today.

But as several of his Republican rivals head to New Hampshire today, including the latest candidate, John Kasich, the conversation continues to be dominated by the real estate mogul.

Here to talk about this and more, James Richardson, former online communications manager for the Republican National Committee, and Robert Kiger of the pro-Trump super PAC Citizens for Restoring USA.

Welcome to both of you. Thank you so much for being here.

JAMES RICHARDSON, FORMER RNC ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS MANAGER: Thanks, Carol. Glad to be here.

ROBERT KIGER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Good morning, Carol. Good morning, James.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Good morning to everyone.

I was reading the conservative blog "Red State" this morning and Erick Erickson had an interesting take on the popularity of Trump. I'm going to read you a bit of his blog. He said, quote, "Essentially, Trump supporters do not care that Trump's past actions align with the Democrats, from immigration to health care to social issues to donations. They don't care because Trump is causing problems for a Republican Party that they decided does not care about them."

Robert, is that spot on?

KIGER: I think it's totally spot on. The GOP needs to figure out how they can get behind Donald Trump but as I said a few times my predictions have come through. Not only on your show but on FOX News, that he is going to be the nominee, and he's going to win the presidency of the United States. So, they need to figure out how to get behind this guy.

COSTELLO: So, James, can you get into the notion, though, that many voters within the Republican Party thinks the Republican establishment doesn't care about them?

RICHARDSON: Robert cannot be serious, thinking that Trump is going to be the nominee. That is the most farcical thing I've ever heard. If you look at the cross tabs of any survey in which Trump has crested 20 points, you find that his position is driven almost exclusively by working class white uneducated voters, and he is pressing against a hard ceiling here. There is no path for him to expand his base of support. He's not going to appeal to minorities. I can tell you he's not going to appeal to Latino voters.

So, the notion that he is going to be the nominee is just laughable.

COSTELLO: Well --

RICHARDSON: He does appeal to a certain set that thinks that the America of yester year is slipping away from them, but these aren't the people -- this isn't the kind of coalition that's going to win a general election. They're also the people that are going to decide the nominee.

KIGER: James, America is slipping away from everybody. CNN did a poll last year where 59 percent of Americans thought the American dream was no longer achievable. So, when he stands up with his bluntness, his honesty, his truthfulness, he speaks from his heart and that's galvanizing to people.

I don't think anybody has been any more galvanizing since Ronald Reagan, and I think you're wrong about the Latino thing, because I'm sitting down here in a hot bed of legal immigration in Florida and I have a lot of friends. And let me tell you something - those guys that have come here and done all the hard work and did everything right, they're mad about the folks walking across the border and taking their jobs away from them.

COSTELLO: And, James, Donald Trump is going to tap into that. He's going to go to the -- I think later this week, he's going to go to the Texas/Mexico border and kind of take a tour with U.S. border agents. So, he's sticking with his plan.

RICHARDSON: Robert seems to think that Donald Trump speaks from his heart, but Trump changes his position more often than regular people change their underwear. You know, he's for the stimulus, he's against the stimulus. Some days, he likes Rick Perry. Other days, he doesn't.

You know, this is a man who reinvents himself for the moment. He praised Hillary Clinton as a phenomenal negotiator. He said that she would have been a great nominee. That she would be excellent as secretary of state. And now, he's calling her the worst secretary of state in the history of the United States.

COSTELLO: But, James, don't you think he's been consistent on one thing, his dislike of President Obama and isn't that what's really driving this? Because there's a certain core of Republican voters that think that the Republican majority Congress has allowed the president to get away with things. They haven't been able to hold him accountable.

RICHARDSON: You know, I would counsel people who gravitate toward Trump simply because he bothers the left so much to consider the possibility that if you have a President Trump, what do you think he's going to be able to move through a Congress that is totally locked up? Trump is in no way a uniting figure. What would a Trump administration accomplish?

COSTELLO: What would a Trump administration accomplish, Robert?

KIGER: I think he's going to accomplish everything that he has set out to do. This immigration issue, when we've got 122 murders since 2010 held at the hands of illegal immigrants, it's -- I'm sorry but the American people are completely and totally fed up with it.

Even since Ronald Reagan, everyone has promised to secure the border and nobody has done it. Republicans, Democrats, no one.

He is adamant about securing this border. There's -- you know, there's so many stories. There's -- 15 days ago a beloved sportscaster in Oklahoma City, Bob Barry never made the news. He was killed at the hands of an illegal immigrant that had been deported three times. The guy was drunk on cocaine, had cocaine in his car. The list goes on and on and on.

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. I apologize. I have to leave it there. Thanks to both of you. I so appreciate it.

Robert Kiger, James Richardson, hope to have you both back.

KIGER: Thanks, James. Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: New polls show one of Trump's rivals on the Democratic side -- I don't know if she's a rival just yet, Hillary Clinton is facing a tough challenge in some key states. That's according to Quinnipiac University, which shows Hillary Clinton with negative favorability ratings in Colorado, Iowa and Virginia, and in several close matchups with would-be contenders, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Scott Walker. We'll talk more about those polls in the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: if ISIS is changing how it operates, is it time to change how we're fighting the terror group?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)