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Donald Trump Takes Questions from the Media on the U.S./Mexico Border; Texas Police Says Sandra Bland's Cause of Death Is Suicide; Colorado Jury Reaches First Verdict in the Sentencing Phase of James Holmes' Trial. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired July 23, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (via phone): It was pretty intense. There was the classic Donald Trump media circus that we saw there. When Trump got to the podium, he took a pause there and he said, wow. It was really something. Even for him he was kind of, I think, surprised maybe at the amount of media there, or at least kind of taken aback at first. And then from there, you had reporters hurling questions at Mr. Trump who was coming out of a meeting with a Loco Loreto (ph), city officials including the mayor who is a Democrat. And it's clear that they have some policy differences, but both were very respectful and it was definitely an interesting press conference.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: I'm curious, Jeremy, you talk about this Trump media circus. How many people were there behind the camera that we can't see?

DIAMOND: I mean, there were - there are dozens of reporters were being shipped right now in two different buses. Kind of this big trail way kind of buses. There were, you know, more than a dozen cameras there. I saw at least four different Telemundo, local Telemundo channels. So that's the kind of tell you a little bit of the interest there, not just from, you know, outlets, English-Speaking outlets, but especially a lot of Hispanic media on the ground here.

BALDWIN: Gloria Borger, I mean, just given all of this, I'm curious. Because, you know, Lou made a point -- I've talked to a number of, you know, huge Trump supporters who are essentially saying, listen, you know, he's resonating with Americans because Americans are sick and tired of Washington and he doesn't come from that perspective.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BALDWIN: And they have a point.

BORGER: You know, I think if you look at the election as it is playing out so far and we are a while away from the election.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BORGER: You'd have to say that a substantial part of both parties' coalitions are anti-establishment. Look at the trouble that Hillary Clinton is having right now vis-a-vis Bernie Sanders and some of her own numbers, you know, on whether she cares about people's problems because she is viewed in the political arena. And then you look at the rise of Donald Trump who is viewed as anti-establishment, anti- Washington, anti-politician. I mean, he's very relentlessly on message about this. And I think it does resonate with a segment of the Republican Party. And I think -- and the people I talk to and other campaigns, their hope and sort of establishment Republicans, if you will, their hope is that Trump supporters are more message loyal than personally loyal to Donald Trump. That at some point if he doesn't succeed as the nominee, that they are hoping that they can transfer those people into support for the Republican Party, it's very tricky for them because Trump has had his feud with the Republican national committee. And, you know, they have to navigate this very carefully or else they worry that they are going to push him into a third-party candidacy which would really hurt them. I mean, we talk about Ross Perot.

BALDWIN: Right.

BORGER: Remember this. In 2000, Ralph Nader got less than three percent of the vote. And if you talk to people who support Al Gore, they will tell you to this day that Nader threw three states and that Al Gore might have been president right now and he only had less than percent of the vote. So close elections, third-party candidates really matter. And, you know, you heard Mr. Trump say I don't want to be a third-party candidate.

BALDWIN: He wants to be a Republican. But right, he has the money to back it up.

Gloria Borger and David Aguilar and Lou (INAUDIBLE), thank you all very, very much.

I have to take a quick break. When we come back, we are getting some breaking news here out of Colorado, on the Aurora Theater shooting trial. We now have verdict in phase one of the sentencing all involving, of course, James Holmes in what he did several summers ago.

Quick break. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:38:08] BALDWIN: We have some breaking news right now out of Colorado where the jury has reached its first verdict in the sentencing phase James Holmes trial.

Let me bring in Ana Cabrera who is live in Denver. What have they found?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the bottom line, Brooke, we now know James Holmes could still possibly receive the death penalty. There are three phases of the sentencing hearing or this small trial that is expected to take about a month. And they just finished phase one in which the prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt aggravating factors in the murders of the 12 people that James Holmes' convicted of already.

And so, what they did was they come back with their verdict saying the prosecution proved four aggravating factors this moves now into the next phase. It's the defense's turn to put on a case of mitigating factors or reasons why they believe James Holmes' life should be spared and that he should be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. They will probably present character witnesses, including family members, friends. We know that the jurors will hear from a fifth grade teacher of Holmes and they likely really emphasize Holmes' mental illness. Remember, during the initial guilt phase of this trial, we heard from several mental health experts who all agreed that Holmes suffers severe mental illness. Now, the jury did not believe that that mental illness made him insane at the time of the crime which is why he was con convicted of murder but that could play a key role here in the sentencing phase.

Now, this next phase that is crucial because the jury will then determine whether the mitigating factors that the defense presents outweigh the aggravating factors that they just felt and found him guilty on.

And if the mitigating factors outweigh, the aggravating factors, that's when they criticized that Holmes should be sentenced to life in prison without parole. If they don't find that to be the case, it moves to a third phase in which we'll hear from the victims who -- and their impact statements, prosecution trying to make their case for a death sentence. And, again, that will ultimately be the end of this case when they move through that phase and will decide on life in prison or parole. So this just keeps moving along, Brooke.

[15:40:00] BALDWIN: OK. You are all over this, Ana Cabrera. I really, really appreciate the update there in the sentencing phase one.

Ana, thank you very much.

We are going to take a quick break. When we come back, we showed you just a bit of that news conference out of Texas involving the death of Sandra Bland. This was after she was arrested for resisting arrest according to law enforcement there. She was placed in a jail cell. They found her dead. The sheriff says it was suicide and they have just now presented multiple pieces of evidence, even photos from her autopsy that they say are indeed consistent with suicide. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:30] BALDWIN: All right. This is the other breaking story of the day here. We just got new details from the district attorney in Waller County, Texas, speaking out about the death of Sandra Bland.

Officials there say cuts on her arms and scabs on her back and shoulder. They showed some of these photos from its news conference from her own autopsy. She is the woman who is found dead in a Texas jail cell who may have tried to kill herself in the past. That detail comes from the Waller County jail documents with Sandra Bland filled out after her arrest on July 10th.

Three days later, she was found hanging in her cell. The sheriff says it was suicide. In fact, he released Bland's intake form with her handwritten responses. So this is after she was taken to the jail. These are some of the questions she was asked.

Have you ever been very depressed? "Yes" is marked.

Do you feel this way now? Yes.

Have you had thoughts of killing yourself in the last year? Yes.

Are you thinking about killing yourself today? No.

Have you ever attempted suicide? Yes.

And it shows it was because she lost a baby. But while this paperwork may help to confirm perhaps this was indeed a suicide, it also contradicts it because another page, this one typewritten here, shows this under the question attempted suicide, the answer is no.

Waller County's DA also says Bland had marijuana in her system and then that brings us today's news conference at the top of the hour.

So joining me now, I have HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson who listened to the entire thing and CNN contributor and forensic scientist Lawrence Kobilinsky. So, welcome to both of you.

And Joey, I just want to jump to you first, because were able to listen to the whole thing. You heard some of the details from these officials as far as abrasions on her body. What did they say?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: It was likely forensic, Brooke. And just to do a backdrop. I think was some concern in like of what her state of mind, right? There was a phone call apparently she made early on. We heard, you know, the message that she left with what appeared to be inconsistent with someone who wants to commit suicide.

In addition that, she take as job, exactly. She takes a job, she moves and, you know, she went grocery shopping. So it was a major concern as to whether her state of mind would be consistent with someone wanting to commit suicide.

But what the prosecution from me listening to the press conference is they look at the forensic evidence examining what it may show in terms of suicide versus an actual, you know, someone killing her, doing something inappropriate to her. And what they did was focus on the body parts. In terms of looking at the hands, what they were talking about is there may be defensive wounds in the event that there was someone who attacked her. And those defensive wounds on the hand would be consistent with some type of struggle. They were nonexistent, according to the prosecutor.

In addition to that, fingernails. Perhaps in the event you're involved in a fight, there may be something under your fingernails. They then looked at other body parts. In terms of the neck, in the event someone strangled you, there would be some type of compression medically that would be consistent with some type of struggle and strangulations. They said it was more consistent, however, with someone who would have committed suicide. So they did that.

In terms of the back, what they looked at on her back, that may be consistent with what occurred on the street in terms of her encounter with the police department. So what they did and also showing the graphic photographs, was to establish that these are the different body parts in addition to others. And it would appear, according from the forensic examination and testing, that everything according to the prosecutor would be more consistent with a suicide than it would be a struggle. They even went as far as to look into the eyes, showing photographs of what the eyes may show and apparently, you know, they become more bloodshot or there's some redness in them, that would be indicative of a struggle that was violent. That was not existent. So the prosecutor went through everything I think in an effort to attempt to be transparent to show exactly what happened from their perspective.

BALDWIN: Larry Kobilinsky, this is your area of expertise. How do you interpret these details?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST (via phone): Well, frankly, I think the autopsy was well done. I think the structures in the neck were examined very carefully. I think people will pay special attention to the cartilage and the bone, if it was a manual strangulation, these structures would be damaged. It would be evident. The TPR (ph) sometimes are found, sometimes they are not found in a hanging. I have heard nothing that would indicate other than a self-inflicted (INAUDIBLE).

I think one of the things a medical examiner needs to build is study the cell and whether -- determine whether or not she had the capability of putting this trash bag above on the ceiling structure and setting this up as a hanging. We do know this was a partial hanging. Her feet were on the ground. So once it's established she could have committed this act independently, there's nothing else that's been found that might indicate a violent struggle took place.

[15:50:46] BALDWIN: OK.

KOBILINSKY: So the conclusion is basically one by ruling out all other alternatives. So at this point obviously toxicology needs to be done before this is completed, but finding the presence of THC (INAUDIBLE) is not going to make much of a difference. Yes, it's a mind-altering drug, but it would not explain much, except for, you know, people that are depressed will often use drugs, and this is a drug of use, so it's not surprising.

So we don't have all the data yet. We'll have more on the toxic report, when it's released, but it seems everything is pointing to a self-inflicted asphyxia. In other words, the manner of death is not a homicide. It appears to be a suicide.

BALDWIN: Right. And that's precisely what these officials were saying in Waller County, Texas. But again, to be clear, this is not what the family believes, and they've ordered that independent autopsy. We are still waiting for the results of that.

Joey Jackson and Larry Kobilinsky, thank you both very, very much.

JACKSON: Thank you so.

BALDWIN: Still ahead, happening moments ago along the U.S./Mexico border, you had Donald Trump addressing and taking questions from the media. They're in Laredo, Texas. The Republican frontrunner again hammering his message about illegal immigration.

Much more is straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:56:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They oppress us as women. They won't let us be. And Hugh Hefner is my enemy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he your enemy? We really set you up today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm more in sympathy than perhaps, you know, the girls realize.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women. Women. Yes, I'm 35.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Than the ladies realize. I use girls, referring to them of all ages.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right. Tonight, the latest installment of 70s. Tonight's installment zeroes down the battle of the sexes to give you an idea of how much things have change. Let just have you consider a couple of things.

First, women these are things that women couldn't do in the U.S. until the '70s. Woman couldn't keep a job if she was pregnant. The pregnancy discrimination act and get pass until 1978. She couldn't report unwanted sexual advances at work. Courts didn't even recognize workplace sexual harassment until 1997. She couldn't get her own credit card. I'd like to have my taken from my sometimes. The equal credit opportunity actually that wasn't passed until 1974.

Let's talk about the advances for women with our CNN political commentator Sally Kohn, ladies and gentlemen. I loved reading your piece.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Let's get groovy.

BALDWIN: On the sexual revolution.

KOHN: Seriously, yes. The '70s people don't realize. And it is hard for, you know, we are a similar age.

BALDWIN: Born in '79. KOHN: OK. I'm older, but that's OK.

So I think women and men of our generation, don't realize what serious political and especially cultural transformations, legal transformations began in the 1970s that changed the world for women and for men today. It's a big deal.

BALDWIN: Give me some examples.

KOHN: Well, you ran through some good ones there. But also it was the very idea, the sort of cultural idea that women should be treated equally as men in public life, in private life. That truly was a radical notion before what was called the women's liberation movement of the 1970s. That's a big deal. And I think I don't want to overstate it, because we haven't accomplished a lot of the goals of that time yet.

BALDWIN: We're on our way.

KOHN: Women are still paid a fraction of what men are paid. Women of colors still afraid of fraction of what white men are paid. We still have major problems. We don't have an equal pay act or -- still, this idea that women should be treated the same as men? That came into being 1970s. And it affected us in major ways.

BALDWIN: Here is a stuff from your piece. In 1960, half of 19-year- old women who were unmarried had not had sex, by the late '80s as Nancy Cohen (ph) pointed out. Two thirds of all women had done the deed by age 18. That's a change.

KOHN: Look. And I don't want to conflate the women's movement with sexual liberation, though they do certainly have some things in common, right? I mean, it is the liberation of your own body and sense of self determination. But it was also a liberation of men and sexuality and whole new conversation and freedom around sexuality for many, and it also had to do with the birth control pill. Let's be clear, you know. It was invented and first came on the market in the late '60s. And by 1969, six million women were on the pill. That transformed bodily autonomy and sex and pleasure for the next decade.

BALDWIN: Also incredibly significant, and we just put reporters in front to (INAUDIBLE) down in the west village, what, a couple weeks ago when the Supreme Court made that ruling, that all started in the '70s with gay pride, the riots, the marches, that's when it happened.

KOHN: That's right. The stonewall riots were in in 1969, some June of 1969. That was when police in New York raided the stonewall bar. It was an ugly raid. And finally, the patrons fought back, protested, rioted. That led to the riot that led to gay pride marches. It wasn't until the 1970s that the American psychological association even took homosexuality of its official list of diseases. So you have this confluence of things that all related to sex and sexuality and sexual identity and the roles and relationship between men and women in society. And again, you know, we made tremendous strides. We have done a lot of things. There are still more to do. But boy, it was the fire lit in the 1970s. BALDWIN: Read her piece, CNN.com/opinion. Sally Kohn, thank you very

much. This is such an awesome series we are airing here on CNN. "The 70s" airs tonight at 9:00 eastern.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. "The LEAD" starts now.