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Interview with New York City's Mayor Bill de Blasio; Donald Trump Makes Waves; Louisiana Shooting Brings Gun Violence Into Discussion. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired July 24, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Bill de Blasio. I asked about his trip to the Vatican, but I had had to ask him about Donald Trump. Let's just say I don't think Mayor De Blasio will be giving Donald Trump his cell phone number any time soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All morning long, we are following developments from the Louisiana theatre shooting and we'll talk more about the investigation in just a minute. But for now, we have to talk about politics. So let's talk Donald Trump.

He took his fight against illegal immigration directly to the U.S./Mexico border where he met with officials and spoke to law enforcement during a four hour swing. But Mr. Trump did not offer any specifics about how he would solve the issue aside from his much claim along Mexican border. Trump also address that bombshell interview with the Hill where he said he considered a third party bid is the republican party is in his word fair to him during the primary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[09:35:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm a Republican, I'm a conservative, I'm running, I'm in first place by a lot it seems according to the polls. I want to run as a Republican. I think I'll get the nomination. We'll see soon enough, but I think I'll get the nomination. The best way to win is for me to get the nomination and run probably against Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Trump went on to say that despite the controversy swirling around his remarks about Mexico, he thinks he'll win the Hispanic vote handedly. I sat down with the New York City mayor Bill De Blasio to talk about his visit to the Vatican and climate change and I'll share that with you in the next hour. But I was also compelled to ask the mayor about New York's own Donald Trump.

Let's just say if Mayor De Blasio had his wish, New York would never do business with the Donald again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEY YORK: I don't think he represents the values of New York City. He's from here but he doesn't represent the values. Because this is a place of ultimate city of immigrants and a place that believes in including every kind of people in our society.

COSTELLO: But he says he loves Hispanics. He said, thousands who worked for him.

DE BLASIO: Yes. I mean, obviously his comments about Mexican- Americans were derogatory and inappropriate. There's been more outrage all over the country about them. So I would simply say he's gone far from his roots here because this is a city we would never tolerate that kind of language.

COSTELLO: Will you do business with Donald Trump in the future?

DE BLASIO: Not if I can help it. Look, I think he has set a very negative tone. That's even before what he said about Senator McCain. You don't have to agree with senator McCain politically to think that -- that was outrageous and inappropriate. I think Senator McCain is a war hero, period, and should be respected as such.

I think Donald Trump has invalidated himself as a public figure. We will not seek out business with him and his companies. We will certainly look for other options.

COSTELLO: I know that your office is reviewing contracts to see if you can get out of them. Is that review complete?

DE BLASIO: It's not quite complete. I don't think there's a construct to get out of those contracts but we'll look for every option.

COSTELLO: Why do you think so many people are attracted to Donald Trump? What is it about him?

DE BLASIO: I would differentiate him from things he's saying. There's a subset of American people that are very frustrated about some of the reality we face. And unfortunately, try to blame. Immigrants who are not the root of the problem. We need to have a better conversation in this country. The best thing we can do for the economy is comprehensive immigration reform. It would be economically strengthening.

COSTELLO: Not building a wall?

DE BLASIO: Not building a wall. So the conversation needs to address the fact that many Americans are economically very frustrated. They have seen their families fall behind. They are looking for answers and someone to blame. Immigrants are not the problem. The problem is income inequality. The problem is the concentration of wealth and power and the fact that too many policies don't help working people. That's where energy should go.

Unfortunately, someone like Trump tries to whip people up and blame immigrants as the root of the problem. They are not the root of the problem.

COSTELLO: He also blames politicians because he says I have enough money to do things. Nobody can buy me. I'm worth $10 billion, everybody should be grateful because I'm an independent person and I'll do what I want. I'm not controlled by the lobbyists and a lot of people like when he says stuff like that.

DE BLASIO: I don't know how many. I'm sure some people find that appealing. I think giving more power to an extraordinarily wealthy person would take us backwards.

COSTELLO: Even though he says his wealth gives him independence?

DE BLASIO: His wealth gives him a perspective to continue policies that have failed for the American people. He's the ultimate example of trickledown economics.

He believes someone like him having a lot of wealth is the best thing for the economy. The reverse is true. We have seen wealth concentrated in fewer and fewer hands and had a negative impact on how many people are unemployed and what kind of wages they have.

Trickledown economics has failed. We need a government that understands for most working people they have lost ground in the last quarter century that needs to invests in infrastructure, raise wages and benefits, focus on working families. Guarantee things like paid leave and sick leave. It's what we have been working on through an agenda. It's a platform that progressives across the country have put forward to say these are the building blocks of a more fair economy and a way to address what's become rampant inequality in this country.

You saw the pole a month ago that pointed out that income inequality is deep in the minds of people across the region and across the party. They want to see a more fair economy. We who believe in a more progressive option have to make clear that folks like Trump are just going to take a bad situation and make it worse.

[09:40:00] COSTELLO: If he runs a third party candidate. Will you applaud?

DE BLASIO: I don't practice punditry. The fact is we need a progressive candidate who will talk about the changes this country needs economically.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Mayor De Blasio, more of my interview in the next hour in NEWSROOM but joining me now Gerald Deliernus, is the co-chair of the Veterans for Trump Coalition of New Hampshire and a marine corps veteran and obviously, he is a supporter of Mr. Trump. Good morning, Sir. Thank you for being with me.

GERALD DELIERNUS, CO-CHAIRMAN, "VETERANS FOR TRUMP": Well, good morning, thank you Carol and thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: Did you hear my interview with Mayor De Blasio that just played? DELIERNUS: I did. I was kind of wishing I could be in on that

conversation and debate him on a few of his subjects.

COSTELLO: Well, what did you think?

DELIERNUS: Well, I would disagree with him on the trickle down economy statement that he made about Donald Trump. And also on the effects of Illegal immigration. He lumps immigrants in with Illegal immigrants and that's a Mistake. Because legal immigrants I believe Donald Trump fully supports as I do and as I think as America does, but the illegal immigration when the first of someone coming into this country is to break our laws, that's a problem.

COSTELLO: I think what the mayor meant is that some Americans are looking for a scapegoat, somebody to blame their problems on. Somebody to blame the economic woes on. And right at the moment, it's undocumented immigrants and the mayor says that's not the problem. The wage gap is the problem. There are other things that factor in.

DELIERNUS: And he's correct on that. There are other things. But illegal immigration does effect it. I couldn't compete with companies that hired illegal immigrants that didn't pay taxes and workers comp. So you either hire illegals or lower the wages of your employees. But he is right. It isn't all illegal immigration. I would agree with him on that.

Our federal government has done a terrible job of keeping jobs in this country. I blame trade agreements we got into for allowing our manufacturers to promote him to leave the country and take the jobs with him. And on that I would agree with the democrat from Ohio. She was strongly opposed to that when those deals were going through.

COSTELLO: Do you know of any policy that would solve the wage gap that Donald Trump has put forth?

DELIERNUS: Well, he hasn't released his policies as of yet. I'm sure he's still working on them and he will have the best and brightest working on that. I do know he's really concerned about our trade with foreign countries and as I am as well. We've been on the wrong end of the trade deals for decades. And what we need to do is revisit the trade negotiations we have had like the north American trade agreement. And revisit those so that we can entice manufacturers to bring those good paying manufacturing jobs back to America and employ more Americans.

COSTELLO: You're sounding like a democrat.

DELIERNUS: You know, actually, I'm hoping I sound like an American. I think we get a little too caught up on the democrat/republican to be frank with you and forget about what's good for America. What's good for American is going to be good for all Americans. We need to have a sense of fair play for Americans in general. I think that's been lost a lot in the political speech on both sides of the aisle.

COSTELLO: I agree. Gerald Deliernus, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it. Still to cover more, still to come in the newsroom, the Louisiana movie theater shooting is raising grim reminders of what happened in Aurora, Colorado three years ago. 24- year-old Jessica Ghawi died in that rampage. Her participants join me, next.

[09:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Two dead. Nine injured. One shooter with one gun. A gun violence is nothing new in the state of Louisiana or the United States. Let's just focus on Louisiana. According to FBI statistics, there were 453 murders in 2013. 356 victims were killed with some type of gun. Now, keep in mind Louisiana is a concealed carry state so you can legally carry a weapon with you if you have a license.

So let's talk about guns in America and, well, we'll try to have a rational conversation, right? Who better to have that conversation with is CNN's Law Enforcement Analyst and retired New York City Police Detective Harry Houck. Thank you for being here. I appreciate it.

So you're a guy who carried a gun around for a long period of time.

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Still do.

COSTELLO: Still do. OK. So this is a perfect question to post to you because you know what people will say. If only someone in the theater had a gun maybe they could have taken this guy out.

HOUCK: It's a possibility if they were very close to him. If I was very close to him. In the theater and I had my weapon on me, could I have taken him out? Maybe. Remember you're shooting, everybody is running out. Do you innocent a person? So you got to make sure if you can do something like that, you're very well trained and know how to shoot.

COSTELLO: How many people are a perfect shot?

[09:50:00] HOUCK: Listen. I'm an expert shot. I shot perfect scores every year in -- when I was a police officer. It's a totally different situation when you're sitting there shooting at a target or someone is shooting back at you or a tense situation. When a lot of people around, you have to not only worry about getting the shooter, you don't want to shoot an innocent person running.

COSTELLO: No. Plus the movie theater is darkened.

HOUCK: Right.

COSTELLO: Not like it's perfectly lighted.

HOUCK: You have the movie going. But the main problem is, say police officers run in there and the shooter is still active in there, you got all people coming towards the exits. You're a police officer. You're going like, where's the shooter? Where's the shooter? Everybody is standing up. You have to find the shooter and then take him out. It's a hard thing to do.

COSTELLO: OK. So concealed carry laws, should you be able to carry a gun in a bar or movie theater, anywhere you want?

HOUCK: That's a hard question. You know, you have got a lot of bars. I go to South Carolina a lot. And a lot of the bars outside South Carolina say, you know, you're not allowed to bring a gun in. How do they know I have a gun or not?

COSTELLO: Only if they have a metal detector.

HOUCK: Right. But they don't. You know? Should you be allowed? I think if you're legally obligated to get a license, I don't think there's any problem. Should you carry a gun going out drinking? Probably not. Probably not a good idea. But I'm sure a lot of people do and don't kill anybody so I think that the main thing here is we need to start putting people in jail for committing crimes with guns.

COSTELLO: We do, though.

HOUCK: No, not really. I tell you, I have locked up probably hundreds of people with guns and we used to have a one-year mandatory in New York. I never saw anybody do a year for carrying a gun. Ever. All right? The jails would be full. We need a mandatory ten years in jail. If you went -- say somebody went to Chicago, New York, check the last 100 gun arrests and see what happened to those people. I bet you not too many of them wept to jail for a period of time.

COSTELLO: Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it. Thanks so much, Harry. All right. Of course, the shooting is raising new questions about security at movie theaters across the country. What can be done to keep people safe?

Three years ago, 24-year old Jessica Ghawi died when a gunman opened fire in Aurora, Colorado. You know the story. Jessica's parents Sandy and Lonnie Phillips join me now. Thank you for being with us this morning. I so appreciate it.

SANDY PHILLIPS, MOTHER OF JESSICA GHAWI: Thank you, carol.

LONNIE PHILLIPS, FATHR OF JESSICA GHAWI: Thank you for having us.

COSTELLO: When did you first hear about the shooting?

SANDY PHILLIPS: Last night. Started coming through my Twitter feed. And just shook my head. My husband has been predicted there would be another one so, you know, he wasn't surprised but I'm always shocked. I'm always shocked that the violence in America continues. And it's escalating. To the point where even most mass shootings aren't covered anymore and it worries me we're becoming numb.

COSTELLO: But, Lonnie, Sandy said you weren't so much surprised.

LONNIE PHILLIPS: Well, no. You know, we're from no notoriety. Don't name the killer. Maybe show his face once, name him. It's working for us. We see now the news media are more in tune with that. It's mass murderers that we have to stop making notoriety as best way to do it if you can stop showing their face, saying their name over and over again. It creates a copycat situation and we see this happening over and over again and it's not going to stop happening.

In this country, we have easy access to guns is a main problem. We have the same number of mentally ill people in other countries. We have the same amount of videos in other countries. Violent videos. What we have in this country that is not in other countries is easy access to guns.

SANDY PHILLIPS: Carol, it seems like this killer in this theater was definitely a copycat. I mean, he started shooting 20 minutes into the film. Just like in Aurora. He was shooting randomly from what we have been told. Too many similarities. And it makes me shake my head every day and wonder when are we going to hit the tipping point and say, enough is enough. And Louisiana has one of the highest death rates by guns, murder by guns, in the nation.

LONNIE PHILLIPS: Second in the nation.

[09:55:00] COSTELLO: Second in the nation right now. And we illustrated that a few moments ago. So, Lonnie, when you hear, like, we always bring up the issue of gun control and talking about guns and what we might do and then it -- then the talk just dissipates or goes away because the gun lobby is so strong, you might as well not talk about it. Everybody is afraid. How does it make you feel when you hear things like that?

LONNIE PHILLIPS: We are gun owners. Sandy took the NRA safety course at 10 years old. We have a shotgun now. I like to trap shoot. Skeet shoot. We are gun owners. We like to consider ourselves responsible gun owners but it wasn't always that way with me. I've been -- had guns, I was raised in Louisiana. Lake Charles. My father had a gun. He carried around in a glove box.

One time somebody cut him off. He jumped out of the car, grabbed the gun. Ran up to the window. The guy looked at him. Flipped his badge out and said, red, if you don't put that gun away, you're going to jail. Get back in your car. That was it. How cavalier was that? And it's gotten a little better but not a whole lot better. We still don't treat guns like they're instructions of death in this country.

COSTELLO: Sandy, why do you think that is?

SANDY PHILLIPS: As a legal gun owner -- well, I think you're a legal gun owner until you're not a legal gun owner and you have broken a law. You have killed somebody. You've shot somebody. We have to start looking at this in a much broader picture and saying that there is an issue when almost anyone can get their hand on a gun. This guy evidently had been a felon at one point and gee whiz it was a long time ago. I'm sorry. I don't care how long ago it was. He should never, ever have a gun again.

And if we make it so easy and so acceptable that, oh, you were a bad guy once, maybe you hurt somebody, maybe you didn't. You know? You have been arrested for that. You know, your officer a while ago made a good point. We need stiffer laws. The Second Amendment says well regulated and we as a country are far from well regulated. COSTELLO: Thank you both for being with me this morning. Very

powerful words from both of you. I so appreciate it. Lonnie and Sandy Phillips, thank you so much.

I'll be talking to the Lafayette police chief and a victim of the -- one of the victims' co-workers coming up in the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)