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Fight Against ISIS; Louisiana Shootings Investigation; Republicans Creating Controversy. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 27, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

DR. AUMA OBAMA, HALF-SISTER OF PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It's my life. It's my future. And that's what we're trying to achieve. And if he can see that -- and I'm hoping he sees at a glance, without too much explanation.

But, yes, I will just show him around. That's all I would do and wait and see.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: If you would like to learn more about Auma's relationship with her brother or about Sauti Kuu, go to CNN.com/Impact.

And we continue on, top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

Just when you thought the campaign rhetoric couldn't become get more raw, along comes a new remark from a Republican presidential hopeful and this time it's not Donald Trump. Rather, it's Mike Huckabee going after the president and specifically this nuclear deal with Iran and invoking imagery from the Holocaust to make his point.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president's foreign policy is the most feckless in American history. He's so naive, he would trust the Iranians and he would take the Israelis and basically march them to the door of the oven.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Governor Huckabee's remarks add to the increasingly in-your- face remarks that have really characterized this GOP contest ever since Donald Trump jumped in the race. Today, in Africa, where the president is traveling, Mr. Obama was asked for his reaction to Huckabee's comment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The particular comments of Mr. Huckabee are, I think, part of just a general pattern that we have seen that is -- would be considered ridiculous, if it weren't so sad. We have had a sitting senator call John Kerry Pontius Pilate. We have had a sitting senator who also happens to be running for president suggest that I'm the leading state sponsor of terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, who is traveling with the president in Ethiopia.

Jim, it's important to point out the president was asked specifically that question and that was his response. In addition to what we just heard, President Obama also made specific mention of Donald Trump by name. Was there any indication that he would go after Republicans directly like this?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

There was no indication, Brooke. As a matter of fact, it's been almost White House policy in recent weeks to stay out of the campaign fray. White House Press secretary Josh Earnest hardly ever uses the word Trump when talking to reporters in the Briefing Room.

I think this was one of those episodes -- I have talked to a couple of White House officials and they confirm this -- where they feel like Mike Huckabee's comments were so over the top, so beyond the pale, suggesting that the Iran nuclear deal would lead to a holocaust, that the president was just itching to respond and that's why you heard what he said today.

But at the same time, when you heard the president go after Trump, who he's tangled with before, remember the birth certificate controversy from a few years back, when he goes after Tom Cotton for referring to Secretary of State John Kerry as Pontius Pilate in the Iran talks, and when he goes after Ted Cruz for saying that the president would be the leading financier of terrorism if this deal goes through, that's an indication that we have entered a new phase of this campaign in which the president is at times going to be playing the surrogate in chief.

They like to say here at White House that the bear is loose and I think you saw the bear getting loose today on the campaign trail, even though we're thousands and thousands of miles away in Ethiopia -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: In Addis Ababa. Jim Acosta, thank you so much.

Tough talk from Mike Huckabee, as we just played for you, a tough response from President Barack Obama. It's getting rough out there. Folks, this is politics. Republicans are speaking out. Just in fact within the past hour, Jeb Bush said Huckabee went too far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Iran deal is horrific, and it is -- creates far more dangers than it -- and problems than it solves. But I think we need to tone down the rhetoric for sure.

Look, I have been to Israel, not as many times as Mike Huckabee, who I respect, but the use of that kind of language is just wrong. This is not the way we're going to win elections. And that's not how we're going to solve problems. So, it's an unfortunate remark. Not quite sure why he felt compelled to say it. Having said that, this is a bad deal. And I can see why people are angry about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A lot of Republicans agree with how Huckabee feels about the deal, maybe not with the language, but actually fellow Republican hopeful Rick Santorum was also asked about these remarks and he came to Huckabee's defense.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. Absolutely not. I think most people in Israel would probably look at that and realize that Iran is as great a threat that Israel has ever faced.

[15:05:01]

They have been very, very clear about wiping Israel out. They have been very, very clear about pushing them into the sea. You know, it's -- they have very much committed to destroying the state of the Israel and the Jewish people. I have no -- no -- I think Governor Huckabee is absolutely right.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Jake Tapper is here with me, host of "THE LEAD" and "STATE OF THE UNION."

And as I mentioned, even just listening to the Jeb Bush comments, listen, the Republicans oppose the Iran deal, but the way in which obviously Governor Huckabee characterized this, taking it there, alluding to the Holocaust, do you think -- I have to wonder how aware he was when he was choosing those words and how strategic he was being, bigger picture here.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Oh, I think he was very aware.

And I think, look, obviously, the language has been criticized by everyone from President Obama and Hillary Clinton to the Anti- Defamation League to Jeb Bush. But, look, if one thinks that this Iran deal means at the end of the day Iran will get a nuclear weapon and destroy Israel, the Holocaust is not really all that odd to invoke.

I'm not defending the comments or criticizing them, but I do think that there is certainly a passionate percentage of the voters here in this country and also in Israel, as Rick Santorum mentioned, who really is afraid that this deal will mean ultimately the end of Israel. And for Mike Huckabee to make an emotional appeal in favor of Israel is something that I think could, theoretically, help him, especially among evangelical voters who are very, very supportive of Israel and see this Iran deal as a threat to the Jewish state. BALDWIN: Especially having the president in Africa specifically

criticize Huckabee, I have to imagine -- we alluded to this last hour -- it's almost like a badge of honor, right, for Huckabee and potentially great for his base. Let me take it a step further.

I'm also wondering. You mentioned this is an emotional response from Governor Huckabee. Do you think at all it's a result we will call it the Trump effect? I won't use the words that have been used in this cycle so far, but you just look at the personal attacks in the last week or so. Do you think it's going there, therefore, other candidates are jumping on that wagon of, I don't know, being personal and maybe using uglier language or not at all?

TAPPER: I think that's a fun meme for people to discuss, but ultimately we're really talking about Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz, both of whom are individuals who have had strong controversial statements in the past.

When we start seeing Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio and Scott Walker and some of the more establishment candidates start using language like that, then I will buy into the, everybody is trying to out-Trump Trump meme. But, right now, Huckabee has compared abortion to the Holocaust before.

He has made very strong comments before. The guy has a background in broadcasting both on FOX and on the radio. So he has an ability to use very colorful language. Look, it served him well when he won the Iowa caucus in 2008.

BALDWIN: OK.

You have seen the polling, our most recent CNN/ORC polling. Trump is at the tiptop, even in the wake of his criticism of Senator John McCain. How far -- you have been in Washington a long time, Jake. How far can Donald Trump go with his rhetoric before he truly starts to pay a price in support?

TAPPER: Well, he hasn't said anything yet that would alienate the people who are supporting him in these polls, which are angry, fed-up conservatives who are sick of Washington and sick of the Republican leadership, to say nothing of the Democrats. So to go after...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What about...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: ... veterans?

TAPPER: But he went after John McCain. I understand that his language was...

BALDWIN: Yes.

TAPPER: ... not language I would ever think to us. But he went after John McCain, who is as considered by the Republican base to be an establishment figure and when they see the entire Republican Party apparatus and the media leap to John McCain's defense, they don't get into the quibble over what Donald Trump was saying.

They just see Donald Trump upsetting the very people that they are mad at. And so that I don't think it's despite insulting John McCain. I think perhaps it was in part fueled by his insulting John McCain. And, look, in terms of what he said, which if you look at the comments, he certainly was belittling those who have been caught and were POWs, but I think a lot of people just moved on from that, although there are a lot of veterans out there who were not happy with those comments either.

The moment that will be a problem for Donald Trump is when he says something like this that alienates the Republican base. But, so far, whatever you think of his comments, attacking illegal immigrants, undocumented workers, attacking an establishment figure like John McCain, attacking Republicans in Washington, D.C., these things are not alienating the base.

[15:10:07]

These things are attracting the base. And the angrier that Republican establishment figures and the media get at Donald Trump, the more you are throwing him into the briar patch, as it were.

BALDWIN: Yes. Jake Tapper, we will see you at the top of the hour on "THE LEAD." Thank you very much, my friend.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I enjoyed your dancing in Africa. That was interesting.

BALDWIN: Thank you. Wink to you. Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: We're going to move along now, folks.

As families and friends say goodbye today to the women killed inside a movie theater, we are now hearing what the killer's secret journals revealed.

Plus, the stunning cover that has everyone talking today. Have you seen this? Nearly three dozen women accusing Bill Cosby of drugging and sexually assaulting them seen together on "New York" magazine. We will speak live with the writer behind this incredible piece.

And lost at sea. Two teenagers disappear during a fishing trip. Their boat was just found. What about their life jackets? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:10]

BALDWIN: Two painful goodbyes are happening this afternoon in Lafayette, Louisiana.

The family of Mayci Breaux is burying the 21-year-old woman who was one of those two victims shot and killed last Thursday at that movie theater. Mourners are also gathering today for the funeral of Jillian Johnson. She was 33.

And as they are buried, the body of their murderer has yet to be claimed. Police say John Russel Houser visited several other theaters before entering the Grand 16 in Lafayette and firing those 20 shots apparently at random. Police know this because Houser, they say, wrote a lot of his thoughts down in journals found in his motel room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. MICHAEL EDMONSON, LOUISIANA STATE POLICE: He said he's coming to the movie theater at 7:15 on Thursday night. What we do believe is that he was in other theaters, whether it was Lake Charles, Lafayette and Baton Rouge, maybe disguised himself from some of the things we have heard about.

And then, for whatever reason, he is in this theater on that night at 7:27 and he stands up and he kills two innocent people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I want to share this with you now. This is a new video obtained by CBS. And it shows Houser in the days before the shooting.

He got to the city in early July after borrowing $5,000 from his mother. Now, John Russel Houser was involuntarily committed in 2008. He was denied a concealed carry permit. His wife in court documents actually took away his weapons and yet Houser, as well documented as his mental illness was, was still able to buy a gun from an Alabama pawnshop last year.

Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal said this on "Face the Nation."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: That never should have happened. Here in Louisiana, we actually passed tougher laws a couple of years ago, so that, for example, if Houser had been involuntarily committed here in Louisiana, that information would automatically -- we would have reported that to the national background check system.

He shouldn't, he wouldn't have been able to buy a gun; he wouldn't have been able to go into that pawnshop and buy that gun, as he did in another state. Look, every time this happens, it seems like the person has a history of mental illness. We need to make sure the systems we have in place actually work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, Joshua Horwitz, the executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.

And, Josh, thank you so much for joining me.

JOSH HORWITZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COALITION TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

BALDWIN: I want to loop back actually to Governor Jindal here in just a minute.

But, first, let me just start more broadly. I think one question a lot of us had was, can you explain to me how someone, in this case Mr. Houser, how he had been institutionalized, right, how he was still able to, after the fact, buy a gun?

HORWITZ: Well, the facts are still not clear, but in a situation like this, if he was indeed involuntarily committed, that data should have been collected by the state and transferred to National Instant Check System housed with the FBI.

I think potentially the problem is that Georgia never collected that record and sent it to the FBI. And we know that Georgia is one of the worst states for reporting those types of records.

BALDWIN: That's my follow-up. I mean, what kind of checks and balances are on these different states, these systems? We know he was in Columbus, Georgia, he was in Alabama, then he was in Louisiana. Are they talking to one another?

HORWITZ: They are talking to each other. For instance, if you're selling a gun in Alabama at a gun store and you have to do a background check, which is not always the case, but a gun store, you do, they should then contact the FBI in Washington.

And the way the system should work is that Georgia would send that information to the FBI. I don't really know what happened, but you could guess that Georgia did not record that information, did not send it to the FBI. The system should talk, but all the records need to be in the system. That probably wasn't the case here.

BALDWIN: OK. You bring up this policy or this law in California. You write in this opinion piece, California has a way to prevent this. It's called the gun violence restraining order, the GVRO. How does that work?

HORWITZ: Well, in California, as in Indiana and Connecticut, California just passed a law that says if you're a family member or law enforcement and your family member is in crisis, it could be from drugs, it could be from alcohol, it could be from mental illness, then you can go to court, just like a domestic violence restraining order, and get an order from a judge temporarily removing that firearm so that your family member or loved one can get treatment.

And if it's a substantial likelihood that that person could commit harm, then the judge will order that firearm removed. Law enforcement will temporarily remove the firearm, so that that person can get treatment.

BALDWIN: But we know that in this case, at least at one point in time, because of his apparently bipolar disorder that the then wife had mentioned and the manic depression, she had removed the gun, although I guess it wasn't the state telling her to do so. She just did it.

[15:20:05]

HORWITZ: Right. And one of the nice things about getting an order here is then that record should be transferred to the National Instant Check System, so if they went to buy a new gun, that would prevent them as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Got it.

And finally here, you heard the sound bite from Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal. Do you agree that Louisiana has some of the toughest laws on the books? Because, obviously, he's a Republican presidential candidate and he's also listed as an A-plus NRA rating. And he said actually at an NRA convention that when it comes to the state of Louisiana -- quote -- "We're proud to be clinging to our guns and religion."

That was last spring. And now he's calling on other states to toughen gun laws. I'm just wondering what you make of that.

HORWITZ: Well, actually, within I think the last 18 months or so, Louisiana has changed their reporting requirements so that they will put more records into the NICS system.

And before that, I think, as of 2013, they had just a handful of records. They actually are making an attempt to get those records into the NICS system.

BALDWIN: They are?

(CROSSTALK)

HORWITZ: Yes, let's see how they do, but they are making that attempt, which is so important.

BALDWIN: OK. Joshua Horwitz, the executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, with his opinion piece at CNN.com/Opinion, thank you so much.

HORWITZ: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, it could be a game-changer here. We're going to talk about what is happening in Syria with regard to ISIS, specifically discussing Bashar Assad, saying he's simply running out of manpower. Is that a strategy? Stay with me.

We will talk to Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:50]

BALDWIN: Now to a major turnaround by Turkey. The government is shifting its terror tactics by allowing the United States to use its air bases to hit ISIS targets in Syria and it's launching airstrikes all of its own.

Let's go straight to our international correspondent, Arwa Damon, in Istanbul.

Arwa, first, can you just tell me about the safe zone?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is where we get into some of the interesting language that is swirling around all of this.

These are not necessarily safe zones in the sense that they will be protected by a no-fly zone. They are more like ISIS-free zones. The U.S. and Turkey will be very closely collaborating to try to conduct precise airstrikes in sensitive regions along the Turkish-Syrian border to try to push ISIS back from those areas.

Turkey's logic is that this will naturally create safe territory within Syria that, hypothetically speaking, refugees could return to. Of course, that's highly problematic because those refugees there won't necessarily be protected from airstrikes, for example, carried out by the Assad regime and then you have the big issue of who on the ground is going to ensure that ISIS does not advance, if it attempts to do so in a manner where they can not be taken out by these airstrikes?

And Turkey's main sticking point when it came to allowing the U.S. to use its bases and its airspace were that Turkey wanted as part of this big approach to the war in Syria an element that would guarantee the removal of Bashar al-Assad from power. Turkey seems to have backpedaled a little bit on that particular demand, no longer sticking to it is guns when it comes to that particular point, but making a key concession at this stage perhaps because Turkey is now realizing that it has to be a part of this broader coalition against ISIS, so that it can continue, according to some analysts, to maintain political relevance in the region, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Arwa Damon, thank you.

I want to springboard off your point and bring in Mark Hertling, retired Army commanding general in Europe and the 7th Army, also a CNN military analyst for us here.

So, General, great to have you on.

You were -- I should point out to all of our viewers you were a commander of U.S. Army in Europe and had the opportunity to work with the Turks on many of these issues. You know about this firsthand. The decision here for Turkey to get more involved and to help with this collaboration with the U.S. and having, I think Arwa put it best, not necessarily a safe zone, but an ISIS-free zone, your read on that, sir? LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's a strategic

concept, Brooke.

And as Arwa just said, that's a whole lot different than having tactical operations on the ground to conduct these kinds of desires. But what we're talking about first is, we have got to make it perfectly clear the national security concerns of Turkey are not the same as the United States.

They are not as interested in ISIS, as they are in getting rid of Bashar al-Assad, as Arwa just said. They are also very concerned about getting those millions of refugees out of their country. This was a concern when I still in U.S. Army Europe. In fact, I talked to the chief of staff of the Turkish army about that when they only had 200,000 refugees. You can imagine the drain on the security forces those kinds of elements will contribute to.

BALDWIN: Wow.

HERTLING: The third issue is they are very concerned about the expansion of the Kurdish forces into areas that are along their borders.

And then, fourth, they are concerned about ISIS and, as Arwa said, very concerned about becoming irrelevant in the international fight against ISIS. All of those things play a part. What they have done, basically, is said, we will come into the fight now. We want to clear this zone where we certainly have a security area between Syria and Turkey, but we also want to ensure these Syrian refugees get out of our territory and go back to Syria.

Who is going to conduct this fight is going to be important. Is it going to be various elements of the Sunni fronts in the Free Syrian Armies in Syria, or is it going to continue to be some of the Kurdish fighters, who have been some of our best partners and so forth?

But there's more than just the military piece. If Turkey can close the northwestern borders and prevent the flow of further fighters into Syria, that will be huge. The second thing...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: See, that, too. But -- and let me stop you there.