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Dr. Drew
Donald Trump Rape Issue, Hear What He Is Saying Now About A Sensational Accusation; Never Before Seen Video Of Sandra Bland Before Her Suspicious Death In Jail; A 911 Dispatcher Is Under Investigation Because He Hung Up On A Caller, Who Was Trying To Save The Life Of A Dying Friend Because She Was Excited And He Could Not Handle It
Aired July 28, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:00:11] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Donald Trump rape scandal, hear what he is saying now about a sensational accusation. Plus,
never before seen video of Sandra Bland before her suspicious death in jail.
It all starts right now with the "Top of the Feed." The latest Donald Trump scandal goes like this. A lawyer for his organization said to
a reporter, quote, "You cannot rape your spouse."
AUDIENCE: What?!
PINSKY: Right. The comment was regarding or referencing a rape claim to Trump`s then wife, Ivana, made during a divorce proceeding more than 20
years ago. Trump reacted on WABC`s "Geraldo Rivera Show" this morning. Have a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was really happy to see this, which I heard about it and it never happened. It was total nonsense,
and they know that. Maybe it was a lawyer tactic or something, and I do not even know where the hell it came from, but it certainly did not happen.
And, you would have heard about that many years ago.
GERALDO RIVERA, WABC`S HOST OF "GERALDO RIVERA SHOW": Really?
TRUMP: I remembered a long time ago, something like this was stated. Ivana just issued a statement. I have recently read some comments
attributed to me from nearly 30 years ago when a time a very high tension during my divorce from Donald. The story is totally without merit.
This is from Ivana. "Donald and I are the best of friends and together have raised three children that we loved and we are very proud of.
I have nothing but fondness for Donald and wish him the best of luck in his campaign."
And, listen to this. "Incidentally, I think he would make an incredible president." There is no rape there, believe me. That happens -
- you do not issue a statement like that, and she just issued it, which I must tell you, I felt was terrific.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Joining us, Samantha Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.Com; Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect And Other Lies
Parents Tell"; Dondre Whitfield, actor, speaker with "The Manhood Tour;" Areva Martin, attorney and legal consultant and Ernie White, Civil Rights
Activist. Sam, there is more, right?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Yes, there is more. So, Donald said, he does not agree with Cohen`s statement. So, he
does not agree. He does not endorse it, but he will not fire him. Now --
PINSKY: So, that is what started this whole thing.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: The guy saying you cannot rape your spouse. He distant himself from him.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: And, this is an attorney.
PINSKY: I know.
SCHACHER: And, he does not know what constitutes rape --
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I know.
PINSKY: Loni. Loni, defend your creed. What is going on?
COOMBS: So, I cannot defend this guy. I mean that is the law in all 50 states. You cannot rape your wife. It is against the law.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: And, there is a statement. I do want to read a statement from Michael Cohen, because he has tried to walk back from his previous
comments. He did release this. In part it reads, quote, "The gall of this particular reporter to make such a reprehensible and false allegation
against Mr. Trump truly stunned me. In my moment of shock and anger, I made an inarticulate comment, which I do not believe in which I apologize
for, entirely."
PINSKY: But, Sam, I got to tell you, he also -- he felt stunned and sandbagged and then apparently threatened the reporter.
SCHACHER: Yes.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: He said, they published what he said to him, which hear it all, quote -- that now, quote, "I will take you for every penny you still
do not have, and I will come after your "Daily Beast` and everybody else that you possibly know. So, I am warning you, tread very f***ing lightly.
Because what I am going to you is going to be f***ing disgusting. You understand me?" You understand, Loni?
DONDRE WHITFIELD, ACTOR/SPEAKER WITH "THE MANHOOD TOUR": I f***ing do?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Dondre understands.
WHITFIELD: And, I hope my f***ing wife now is watching this show and knows that I cannot rape her.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Loni.
COOMBS: You know, it is funny that he was saying, "The gall of this reporter." I mean, the gall of that statement, and it is such a ludicrous
thing. It is like being on the sandbox, like "I am going to come after you and everybody you have ever known and anyone you will ever meet." I mean -
-
PINSKY: You know, you as an attorney, do not use your privileges to bully people, right?
SCHACHER: Right.
COOMBS: No.
PINSKY: You do not do that?
COOMBS: No. And, honestly, there is actually a crime of extortion if you do, you know, threaten a lawsuit. This is so stupid and so
ludicrous. It does not even qualify for that.
SCHACHER: And, this is one of Donald Trump`s advisers. And, here he is bullying this poor reporter, because the reporter asked a legitimate
question. He is using his stature in his wealth to somehow intimidate the reporter.
PINSKY: Cohen is?
SCHACHER: Yes. Cohen is.
PINSKY: Dondre.
SCHACHER: Absolute BS!
WHITFIELD: Sam is absolutely right. What is scary is, is that this is one of his advisers.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Let me bring it to the other side. Areva, I want to bring you to this side here. I am bringing Ernie in. And, Ernie, it seems to
me, the whole -- what Donald did there with Geraldo to me felt like a wonderfully professionally managed PR sort of smoothing over, and he really
did a great job.
I mean hands off to him. He distanced himself from Cohen. He put the thing to rest. He got Ivana`s statement, who, by the way, is under
some sort of weird gag order.
COOMBS: Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: What is the view from the other side?
ERNIE WHITE, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Well, from the other side, I am going to say this, that was the dumbest statement I have ever heard."
PINSKY: Cohen?
WHITE: That is dumb. He should never said that. That is crazy.
PINSKY: Yes.
WHITE: But Donald Trump is still in the news. What is happening here is, Donald Trump is still punching every politician in the nose. He does
not care if you are republican or democrat. What refreshing about him is, he is still punching. And, he does not care about what you think of him,
and that is what we need in this country.
[21:05:08] PINSKY: And, Areva, you want to say something?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL CONSULTANT: I just want to say. I do not know where all the outrage is coming from. Cohen represents his
boss. His boss is a bully. Cohen is bully.
SCHACHER: Yes.
MARTIN: They are all bullies.
PINSKY: Ernie.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
WHITE: I am going to --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
WHITE: I am going to have to agree with her that Cohen is a bully. I am also going to agree with you this, that our government has been bullies
on all of us.
PINSKY: Press can be a bully too. Press can be bully.
WHITE: I do not care. And, the press, they are always bullying us. So, here is the deal. Trump is the type of guy, and I am not saying that
everyone here should be looking at Trump. You should be looking at every candidate. It is time for you - especially, you young people, you need to
be focusing on all candidates in deciding who do you want to lead this country.
WHITFIELD: Let me just say this. I think this really speaks to how qualified Donald Trump is in running this country.
PINSKY: You are not voting for him?
WHITFIELD: Not at all, because I think that every candidate should be a married person, and here is why. You have to be in concert with another
person.
PINSKY: He is married now, right?
COOMBS: Yes, he is married.
PINSKY: Yes, he is married now.
WHITFIELD: Hmm.
PINSKY: I met his wife.
COOMBS: Yes, he is.
WHITFIELD: Let us talk about the whole Ivana thing. You talked about --
PINSKY: That is his ex-wife.
WHITFIELD: Right, I get that. You talk about the whole gag thing.
PINSKY: Yes.
WHITFIELD: It is called money.
MARTIN: Right.
WHITFIELD: So, when you run everything, and when you dictate everything, it is very difficult. When you cannot run your household well
like that, it is very difficult to run a nation well.
COOMBS: Well, that is a very good point. He is used to controlling through money. I mean the whole divorce decree with Ivana was, "You cannot
say a word about me unless you have permit or concern; otherwise, I can stop all money I am doing. I am giving you a lot of money."
PINSKY: But, Ernie, what Dondre was saying could be an indictment of Hilary, though, right?
WHITE: Well --
PINSKY: Because, although, her daughter is wonderful and they raised a beautiful girl, their relationship was not so great a lot of the time.
WHITE: Well, and also Hillary -- Let us go back to Hillary. You got the Benghazi scandal going on with Hillary. You got the e-mails going on
with Hillary. I mean that has been unheard of. Somebody decided to lose all the e-mails as Secretary of State. So, you talk about running a
country? That is not how you run a country.
PINSKY: Yes, sir. What do you say in the audience?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am not really a Trump supporter.
PINSKY: But?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am not really a Trump supporter.
PINSKY: Is there a "but" there or just flat out "No."
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No. The point is -- I do not understand why she waited 15 years to come out and say something.
PINSKY: She did not. It was an allegation during the proceeding.
SCHACHER: Right.
COOMBS: Right. It is actually a statement she made during the deposition during the divorce.
PINSKY: Now, I did a documentary called "Divorce Court," and we looked at what attorneys do during divorce system.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: And, you guys, come on now.
COOMBS: No, you are right --
PINSKY: You will say anything to get the edge. Let us be fair. It did not necessarily happen because she said it at divorce proceedings.
COOMBS: That is right. Especially in divorce, I mean we can be cynical and say she was saying it to get a better settlement. We can say
her attorney was forcing her to say it, or we can say that Donald, you know, forced her to retract it afterwards, but she did.
PINSKY: And, Areva, are we getting confused about consent here too. The Bill Cosby thing, we have had this conversation about consent multiple
times --
MARTIN: I think --
PINSKY: But now consent of a married couple, what is consent all about. And, if we have two glasses of wine or five glasses of wine, can
somebody consent to sex? What is going on?
MARTIN: Yes. I am just saying, when I heard the retraction by his wife, because she said that under oath she raised her hand and swore to
tell the truth, and to say that your husband raped you in a divorce proceeding.
I do not think we should take that lightly. Back then -- you know, this was the `80s, and this whole issue of, "Can women consent. What does
consent look like." A whole different world than today. So, I think something happened in that household, and we should not let this go.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think Ivanka was raped --
PINSKY: Wait. I want to be clear. Ivanka is the daughter? Ivana is the mom?
SCHACHER: Ivana.
COOMBS: Ivana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Ivanka.
PINSKY: Ivana.
WHITE: Ivana.
MARTIN: The ex-wife.
PINSKY: Ivana was raped. So, you are going -- because she said on records.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, she was raped but he would be a good president.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think he would do wonders for our economy. I do.
PINSKY: OK. You do. So, you are with Ernie that this is a great leader, potentially.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think he will --
PINSKY: And, I am laughing only because it is the juxtaposition of, "He is a rapist, but he would be a great president."
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: He is not any difference than any other candidates.
MARTIN: But, he is a rapist, he should be in jail like all rapists, though.
SCHACHER: Yes.
MARTIN: He should not be in the White House.
PINSKY: Ernie, help me with this.
WHITE: Dr. Drew, that is not fair, though. We are talking about a divorce proceeding. Anybody that has gone through divorce knows that the
mud is being slung all over the place --
PINSKY: I agree with you.
WHITE: -- and there is a lot of dishonesty, and you can put anything you want in a divorce file. So, again --
PINSKY: That has been my experience.
WHITE: Right.
PINSKY: Even though everyone is saying --
MARTIN: I think you are being way too sinister about the legal proceedings and people going -- raising their hands swearing to tell the
truth. That has to mean something, Dr. Drew even at a divorce.
PINSKY: We will continue -- Hold it, hold it. Yes, she is now saying she was not, that it was nonsense. But, again, we will continue. And,
later, a brand new video of a woman in police custody before her suspicious death in jail has been evaluated, and we are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:09:44] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: The Daily Beast interviewed by Michael Cohen. He is an executive vice president of the Trump Organization. This
"Daily Beast" reporter asked the Trump Campaign for a comment on something that happened between Trump and his then-wife Ivana Trump many years ago.
During the divorce proceedings, she allegedly described this incident as rape, and this is what Cohen said in response. "You are talking about
the front-runner for the GOP presidential candidate as well as a private individual who never raped anybody, and, of course, understand that by the
very definition, `You cannot rape your spouse.` It is true, you cannot rape your spouse; and there is very clear case law."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oops. Michael Cohen did apologize for that rape comment, but he also said he was stunned by the, quote, "Gall the reporter," who had
elicited from him. Back with Sam, Loni, Dondre, Areva, Ernie.
If you think this latest scandal had damaged him in the polls, you better think again. According to a poll taken after the controversial
McCain comments, Trump is at 24 percent. Jeb Bush at 12 percent amongst likely republican voters. And, Ernie, he is still climbing the polls.
WHITE: Well, you know, again, he is still the only guy that is standing up against the establishment.
PINSKY: But, is that what he is talking about that he is not taking money from the campaign is that correct?
WHITE: Well --
[21:15:00] PINSKY: He is using his own money.
WHITE: He is using his own money.
PINSKY: He is using his own money. He says whatever he wants, does not care. Everybody likes that.
WHITE: Everybody running for president right now has always gone to Trump for money. So, he understands how these politicians operate. So, it
does not matter if you are republican or democrat, you still have to listen to him, simply because he is doing what the average guy cannot do.
And, that is stand up for this country against those guys that are doing absolutely nothing. And, again, that is on the republican and democratic
side. I am not giving the republicans a pass on this as well. They are trying to destroy this country too with the new traffic bill, the
transportation bill they want to pass. So, again --
SCHACHER: Yes. But, Ernie -- but do you really think it is a good idea to name call people? Do you think that sets a really good example in
president? I like the transparency, I agree with you, but I do not think that --
PINSKY: You talk about the scapegoating he does?
SCHACHER: Yes, I do not like that -- yes, he will call someone an idiot. He will call someone done. He will say, this, this, this and that.
I do not think it is a good example as a president or a leader of the free world.
WHITE: Every time he did this, though, he was actually just responding to the person that had actually --
SCHACHER: Not always. That is not true. That is not true.
WHITE: You are going to get a guy --
SCHACHER: No.
WHITE: Who is just going to be a regular guy. He is not going to be a politician. He is not going to be polished. So, if you want a
politician, then you are going to have to go ahead and keep what you got.
WHITFIELD: I completely disagree with this, because this guy actually is a hypocrite. In 2007 --
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
In 2007, he actually said to Hillary Clinton would be a great presidential candidate and now he thinks she is an idiot.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: And, invited her to his wedding.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
WHITE: He probably believed that until he saw Benghazi, until he saw her as the Secretary of State and realized, "Guess what? I made a huge
mistake."
WHITFIELD: But, he continues to do it issue after issue.
WHITE: And, so does every other politician.
WHITFIELD: And, he is a politician.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hang on. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I was going to say that I really think that Trump is running for presidency because he wants to give
himself a major tax break.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
And this whole donating money to himself -- donating money to his own campaign, that is a tax break as well. All I am saying --
PINSKY: Are you Latina yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Am I what?
PINSKY: Are you Latina?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am Alaskan native.
PINSKY: Alaskan native. Did you -- did you had ever sort of reactions to his sort of comments about marginalizing people of certain
ethnicities?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think that he was very -- I think he was extreme about it, because when you remember the stuff that
happened from Cuba refugees coming to Florida in the early `80s, I think he was making a terrible comparison. I think he was assuming that, you know,
there is no Fidel Castro in Mexico.
PINSKY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That s not happening now, OK?
PINSKY: So, you are saying that Fidel is sending only criminals. Do you have a comment about the Cuban issue or --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: (INAUDIBLE)
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. You got a mic, but what tribe are you from, if you mind?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: My tribe name is Sung-sian (ph).
PINSKY: Congratulations. Thank you for sharing with us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK. Thank you.
PINSKY: I appreciate it. Areva, you are reacting.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
MARTIN: I just wanted to say, I do not know about the tax break, but I agree with her, that Trump`s main issue is Trump. If you watch his
interview, Ernie, with Anderson Cooper on CNN, he kept asking him about issues that he kept skirting the issues and skirting the issues. The guy
could not come up with a policy issue, because his only issue is, "Look at me, I am Donald Trump. Give me all of the attention in the room."
PINSKY: Ernie.
MARTIN: That is his issue.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
WHITE: August 6th -- August 6th will be the first debate and the country will get a chance to take a look. And, you know what? If you do
not like them, then you are not going to vote for him.
PINSKY: And, Ernie, Don Lemon actually asked Trump if he is ready. Take a listen?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have absolutely no idea how to answer that question. I am me, I do not have pollsters. I mean I have
a lot of money, much more money than all of them put together. And all of their phony contributions put together.
But, you have to understand, I want to be me. You know, they take pollsters millions and millions of dollars, Don. You know that better than
anybody. And, they will not answer a question --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Don Lemon for president.
PINSKY: Don Lemon knows pollsters better than anybody. But, I turned to really like the way Trump says it. It is terrific. It is terrific.
WHITFIELD: I am curious as to know what is his -- you know, his reasons for policy, his stance. You cannot say you are fired.
SCHACHER: Right. Right.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: Right. Right.
SCHACHER: Or call them a name.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
COOMBS: Right. And, that is what we have seen him do. I mean it will be interesting if he can articulate a little bit more deeply and act
presidential. You do not have to be a politician to be presidential, but this is our leader to our world. Do we really want somebody to sit there
name call --
SCHACHER: Yes.
COOMBS: -- you know, to other world leades?
SCHACHER: No we do not. That could start another world war. We do not need that.
PINSKY: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. It is just amazing to me. You know, he is all about attention, attention, attention. He comes from
the entertainment industry. He likes any kind of good press.
You know, I think about, "I am so scared to look at a woman. I am so scared to compliment a woman. I am so scared to even hug a woman, because
I better have a big enough bank account for her to turn around and file a complaint or file a lawsuit against me."
PINSKY: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That is the bottom line.
PINSKY: I am not following. You guys, following?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, there are so many women claiming, you know, about sexual harassment and violation.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And half of them I believe and half of them, I do not.
PINSKY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is difficult to take them seriously, because these days people are so quick to complain --
PINSKY: Are you talking about Bill Cosby?
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am talking about people complaining about those type of issues.
[21:20:03] PINSKY: So, you support Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not support Trump whatsoever.
SCHACHER: Wait. Those type of issues? You mean women or women or any sexual assault or rape victims out there that feel ashamed. So, then
they cannot come forward, because people like you perpetuate that stigma.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
WHITE: Absolutely not.
PINSKY: No.
WHITE: I agree with you, you are absolutely right. If it is the real deal, you have every right to complain. But, when things --
SCHACHER: Complain?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: When things are brought up, 15, 20 years later, when things -- when people are so sensitive --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: It was not. There was not though --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: When people are so sensitive -- the people are so sensitive --
SCHACHER: This is coming from a deposition. But to be fair, I think what he is saying -- Ernie I will throw this to you is that people are
tired of being extra super PC about everything. And, people need to watch everything they say all the time, and I think that is what people are
finding very appealing.
Listen, I do not have a horse in this race. People out there on Twitter got attacked me. I am anti-Trump. I am pro-Trump. I am
evaluating all of this. I am entertained by it. I am fascinated by the people that get up and support Mr. Trump for the reasons they do. And, I
am interested, is it primarily just the people like the fact that he speaks his mind.
WHITE: I think it is really seriously just that. I think that, you know, if you are in politics at all, and if you follow politics at all, you
will realize that politicians just give you the runaround. Like it or not, he is at least telling you how he feels. So, if you do not like it, you do
not vote for him.
PINSKY: You know what it is. You know where you are.
WHITE: The politicians are going to tell you whatever you want to hear, that is whose going to hear it --
PINSKY: And, it is interesting to me -- The others are trying to be like him. And, sort of trying to stir it up.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: So, how can we say things and he goes down the other way?
COOMBS: Yes. Yes.
SCHACHER: Trying to out Trump him for attention.
PINSKY: And, they do not realized that he is just being him. He is not actually trying to stir stuff up. That is just him.
WHITFIELD: I think we needed to do what "The Huffington Post" decided to do with Donald Trump, which is to put him in the entertainment section.
But, this way, you can go to their page and you will be able to see two asses in the entertainment section --
WHITFIELD: Khloe Kardashian and a picture of Donald Trump.
PINSKY: Look for Dondre`s Twitter feed, I am sure he will have something to say to him. Enjoy the feed you get from this.
(LAUGHING)
Next up, we got revealing new video of Sandra Bland. This shows what happened to her right after her arrest. We have that video. We are going
to evaluate it right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUCING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDRA BLAND, FOUND DEAD INSIDE HER JAIL CELL THREE DAYS FROM HER ARREST: If you feel like your child is too young to kind of start opening
the door to them and educating them on interacting with police.
I do not think it is ever too early. Hopefully, you all are register to vote and going to get out there and place your vote. If you do not
vote, you do not have a voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: I am suffering from something that some of you all maybe dealing with right now. It is a little bit of depression as well as PTSD.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: I was asked, was I trying to racially unite or racially insight. Well, honestly, I feel that my goal is to racially unite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: In this telephone, this camera, it is quite powerful. Social media is powerful. We can do something with this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We just showed you a collection of videos Sandra Bland posted to her Facebook page. She died in a Texas jail cell three days after being
arrested during a simple -- what started as a simple traffic stop. Her death ruled a suicide. I am back with Sam, Loni, Dondre, Areva.
Joining us now, Larry Levin, former federal inmate and founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants. I am going to show all of us now a new
video released today of Sandra Bland booking into Waller County Jail. This is her coming in. It shows Bland changing from street clothes into an
orange jumpsuit, making phone calls, getting finger printed and photographed.
The video was released to dispel allegedly social media rumors that Sandra had been -- that is her mugshot. And, there were rumors that, that
was after she had died. And just for the record, that is not something what a dead person looks like.
That is alive person or that there was some mistreatment during the booking process or began or after she was booked. Larry, I want to go to
you. Anything that you see in that video that the rest of us might not see, and does it dispel these rumors?
LARRY LEVINE, FORMER FEDERAL INMATE: It looks all routine to me. It looks like a well run jail.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Why are you laughing?
SCHACHER: No. It is not a well run jail.
LEVINE: No, really.
SCHACHER: No. The police chief of that jail, he actually was fired from his previous precinct because of allegations of racism and police
brutality.
LEVINE: Actually -- he was the police chief of the neighboring town. They fired him -- you are right, for racism and brutality.
SCHACHER: Yes.
LEVINE: And the people elected him as a sheriff.
SCHACHER: OK.
LEVINE: Now, have you ever been in a jail to know what not a well run jail --
SCHACHER: No, but you are skirting that this -- away from the fact that this is not a well run jail.
LEVINE: What is a well-run jail?
SCHACHER: Wait. No. How about the fact that there is all these inconsistencies with the dashcam video, with the security footage inside
that jail. The fact that they wrote down paper, the fact that they wrote down on pieces of paper that she was suicidal, but then there was no
suicide watch? This is not sound like a well-run jail to me.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
LEVINE: First of all, the dash cam video, that is the Texas department of public safety.
PINSKY: Guys --
LEVINE: That is the Waller County Jail.
SCHACHER: What about the security video inside that for 90 minutes, coincidentally ran all day, than the 90 minutes where she was in her cell.
Oh, wow! Poof! What happened to that 90 minutes?
LEVINE: OK. A jail that is not a well run jail, people are getting assaulted all the time by other inmates. They are getting mistreated by
the staff. That is a well run jail.
SCHACHER: Why cannot we say they need to do better.
LEVINE: Oh, all the jails.
SCHACHER: I am not -- they need to do better.
LEVINE: The jail was cited. The Texas department of jail standards cited Waller County for not following standards.
SCHACHER: OK. So, they need to do better.
LEVINE: Every jail in America needs to do better.
PINSKY: In a way --
SCHACHER: Then we are on the same page.
PINSKY: Sam, am I right -- and Larry, am I right, it is kind of like hospitals. Hospital is never perfect. They are always trying to do
better? Poor quality improvement.
LEVINE: Well, OK. Look, pick any restaurant in the country. Go ahead and look on Yelp and all these social media rating sites. You can
find good stuff and bad stuff about any place.
PINSKY: Hospitals -- There is no way to make it perfect. It is just impossible. But, I want to bring in Danine Manette. Danine Manette is
criminal investigator. She is author of "Messages for Joey." Danine, you heard this conversation. What do you see in this video?
[21:30:05] DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, I see a lot of things from the very beginning. And, you know, it is a very emotional
situation, a very emotional subject, but I really think we need to stick to the facts.
What I have seen from the beginning is that I see a cop that escalated the situation because, you know, of course, he should have told
her to put her cigarette out. He should have just said, "You know what? Go ahead and smoke, and I will finish this ticket when you are done."
And, she would have probably hurried to put the cigarette out, just to get this over with. So, I see him acting completely inappropriately and
unprofessionally. And, I see the jail, not taking into account the fact that she obviously has a depressed and previous suicidal background.
PINSKY: OK. Now, see --
MANETTE: However.
PINSKY: That is a big deal, though, right? That she did not get the mental health services she needed?
MANETTE: Yes.
PINSKY: Unless --
MANETTE: But, I think that, that --
PINSKY: Hold a second. Wait. Wait. Danine, I want to interrupt you one second. You told me something before you came in here about the
orange color she had. OK, is it possible that they were identifying her as somebody by putting her a different color, who had mental health needs?
LEVINE: Could be that she was of a certain sexual orientation. She could have had mental problems. She could have had physical disabilities.
PINSKY: Wait. Clarify this --
LEVINE: It is possible that the orange jumpsuit indicated she had psychological problems.
PINSKY: But, they do not normally put someone in an orange jumpsuit or a colored jumpsuit, that meant something to you?
LEVINE: Correct. Although --
MARTIN: Dr. Drew, that is a completely speculative statement.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
MARTIN: No one from the system, no one from the jail, no one from the district attorney`s office, no one involved in this case has made that
statement.
PINSKY: Areva, you are right.
MARTIN: So, we are introducing into the situation the facts that do not exist.
PINSKY: Correct. I am just --
MARTIN: So, let us stick to the facts.
PINSKY: Well, I am just -
(CROSSTALK)
LEVINE: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Yes?
LEVINE: That could have just been the jumpsuit that also was available.
PINSKY: It just showed up.
LEVINE; They take them out of a bin.
PINSKY: Yes. Before we go down the path of she did not get mental health services, I want to at least open the possibility of somebody may
have identified her as having some special needs. But, Danine finish up. I am sorry.
MANETTE: OK. So, those things to me are civil issues and I think that there is something that should be followed up on with the family. Why
was that she was not check on more often? Why was she put in the cell by herself? All of those things. Do I think that she was murdered or that
there was some criminal activity that went on? Absolutely not.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: And, for numerous reasons. I have listened to a lot of the interview with the girl who was across the hall. And, I have looked at the
tapes and I do think that there are some issues with the tapes. But, ultimately, those jailers that is their job. That is their bread and
butter.
They have kids to go home to and mortgages to pay. And, they are not just going to kill somebody because that person got into it with the cop.
The cop was completely -- Once they booked somebody into jail -- because I worked in in-take. I have worked in that unit. I have did it for years.
Once you book somebody into the jail, you are done with them and you go back to your beat.
PINSKY: So, they do not know who the cop is. They do not have any access to the cop or know what the cop --
MANETTE: The cop does not just come in and say, "Hey, go kill her." This was three days later. She was not kicking. She was not bedding. She
was not being counseled. She was just restrained.
PINSKY: She was crying. She was crying, Areva.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Absolutely --
MANETTE: She was crying, but she was crying --
MARTIN: With all due respect --
MANETTE: -- because no one was answering her phone calls. She was crying because she could not get anybody of her four sisters to put
together $125 each and bail her out of jail.
WHITFIELD: OK. We get that.
MANETTE: She was depressed and crying.
WHITFIELD: You know what? This is completely -- We got to stop this.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVIN: She was crying in the jail all the time though.
PINSKY: Areva.
MARTIN: With all due respect, Danine, I think having this conversation without taking into account the larger issues that are
happening in the United States around African-Americans in the hands of police officers is irresponsible for us. So, we cannot really talk about
Sandra Bland unless we talk about the issues of trust and distrust in the African-American community.
MANETTE: And I get that, there is a history here. And, of course, there is going to be. We are highly sensitive. There is an issue of law
enforcement in the black community, and my God, this goes back ages. So, of course, we are very, very hypersensitive to this and to the mistreatment
of our people in jail. I just think that this particular situation is a little bit different.
PINSKY: Dondre.
WHITFIELD: But, you are not being sensitive to the fact that there obviously is some great misconduct in this situation. And, what you are
doing is that you are speculating that there is no misconduct based on your experience. You cannot speak to this particular issue.
(CROSSTALK)
MANETTE: No. No. No. I do believe there is misconduct. Her being put in that cell by herself was not appropriate.
PINSKY: Danine, hold it.
MANETTE: Her not having kept on, her not having her mental health care given to her, absolutely -- that was completely wrong and is
actionable. I just do not think anybody went in there and killed her for no reason.
PINSKY: Loni, last thoughts there.
COOMBS: And, the misconduct that people are talking about out in the traffic stop, everybody is assuming that the cops are worried about that.
If you watched the videotape after she was arrested and taken away, the cops talk to each other and they go, "Thank heavens that was all on
videotape. Yes, it is going to be OK."
They figured everything was fine that they handled everything correctly. And the videotape would help their case. So, where is the
intent for them to feel like they had to shut this woman up?
PINSKY: OK. Hold it. And, sir, I am going to you as soon as we get back from this break. So, hold on. We are going to continue this
conversation.
And, later, a 911 dispatcher. This is an unbelievable tape. You are not going to believe this when you see it and hear it. This guy is under
investigation because he hung up on a caller, who was trying to save the life of a dying friend because she was excited and he could not handle it.
"Honey, you have to straighten yourself out," and hung up on him. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:35:04] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: I know it makes you feel real good. You are a real man now. You just slammed me, knocked my head in the ground. I got epilepsy you
mother (EXPLETIVE WORD).
OFFICER ENCINIA: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE TROOPER, You should have thought about that before you start resisting.
BLAND: Right. All right, yeah. This is real good. Real good for a female. Yeah.
OFFICER ENCINIA: I want you to wait right here. Wait right here.
BLAND: I cannot go nowhere with your (EXPLETIVE WORD) knee on my back. Duh!
OFFICER ENCINIA: You need to leave. You need to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE PASSERBY: I cannot hear you.
OFFICER ENCINIA: You need to leave.
BLAND: All of this for a traffic signal. I swear to God. All of this for a traffic signal. Thank you for recording.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That traffic stop is still under investigation. Texas State Trooper Brian Encinia wrote in his arrest warrant affidavit, "Bland was
combative and uncooperative." I am with my panel and the audience. I am going to go right back to the audience. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not know about the viewers at home, but I am so sick and tired of dealing with people who make up excuses
for this country`s police departments` jail systems and things and that sort, and I think we need to get it together.
[21:40:00] SCHACHER: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Definitely.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Larry, do you have a response to that.
LEVINE: There is problems in all law enforcement agencies. You have good cops, you have bad cops. Yes, there are racial issues with law
enforcement going after certain people. But, in this case, I do not think the traffic stop was racially motivated.
PINSKY: But, we are talking about a lot of stuff -- we have been -- These things keep coming up in the news, what do you want? What are you
referring to? What do you mean, getting it together? What does it mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, there are people that are just making excuses about what happened in the jail. The jails are living
hell. We do not need to be in that situation --
PINSKY; Larry agrees with you on that one.
LEVINE: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We are talking about Texas. The state that is historically is the leading state in violating the people`s
rights and covering it up forever. And we got to do something, because we are putting ourselves in a bad situation by allowing that to go down.
So, every time it happens, we need to definitely fight and educate ourselves and our families and our future to leave a legacy that knows if
we do something about it now and not just stand for excuses, we can move forward and hopefully save the future.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
WHITFIELD: He makes a good point. I mean, we are really dealing with the fact that, you know, this officer says, "I will light you up."
SCHACHER: Yes.
WHITFIELD: There was another incident that popped up, you know, on YouTube where an officer --
PINSKY: Listen, but that -- Police talk like that to everybody --
WHITFIELD: And, I understand.
PINSKY: If they are dealing some tough situation.
WHITFIELD: But it does not mean that it should be with another officer say to a guy, "You know, I will put a hole in your head." Listen,
if anybody -- if a gang member on the street said that to a citizen, we would be crying out to have that person off the street.
PINSKY: No. Right now in Los Angeles there is something where there is a war going on. I was reporting on this today earlier on my radio
program on KABC. And, we were hearing from law enforcement that they were describing a Ferguson effect, which is causing them to pull back a little
bit and not want to intervene on these gang members that were creating horror in the community. They could not intervene out of fear that if they
were seen doing something -- Loni.
COOMBS: And, I think, that needs to be -- Look, there are great injustices and we are finally all starting to open our eyes to it. But, we
still must take every case and judge it on a case by case basis. You cannot put a hole overlay on it and say everybody is guilty, because that
is exactly what happened. The cops are going to say, "OK, we cannot win. We cannot lose. And step back." --
PINSKY: And, Sam --
MARTIN: I disagree with that.
PINSKY: Listen. But, I am just telling you Areva, I talked to people in parts of Los Angeles State, who called into my radio program, and
they were like, "Yeah, we cannot come out of our house. We are scared to death. They killed the little kid." And, the cops were like, "We are
doing what we can, but we are going to do our job, but, you know, then somebody will call in and we are" --
MARTIN: No. I read the stories too about this gang violence you are talking about in South Los Angeles.
PINSKY: Yes.
MARTIN: And, the cops -- the recent reports is that they have it under control. But, I think we need to be clear here. We are not trying
to indict the entire law enforcement. We know there are good cops. We are talking about constitutional policing where police do not treat people
differently because of the color of their skin.
That is it. Plain and simple. This whole tape, why are they dripping and dripping and dripping the tape? That creates more distrust
with the community. Show us everything, that is what transparency is about. We become more distrustful when they do things like we are seeing
here. Give us little pieces of information, so we can trust it.
PINSKY: Let me hear from the audience. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Rex. I am part of an underground female artist collective called #snatchpower. And, we
actually spoke about this on our radio podcast on -- this past weekend, where I am a female, everybody who is on air with me are all female.
We hang out in hip-hop collectives all the time, there are cops often. And any time we go out, we always worry, "Are we going to be next?,
because somebody gets out of hand?" "Oh, they wanted to stop us on a routine check." "Oh, they wanted to lock us up for resisting arrest when
we know we did not do anything wrong."
So, my problem here specifically is the fact that the police have the option to not be brutal when they are arresting, when they are dealing with
people. The fact that I am female and have to worry about the police pretty much killing me.
PINSKY: Manhandling you. You do not like it, you worry about it. You do not like what you saw here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Right. That was complete brutality.
PINSKY: OK. Larry, how do you address that?
LEVINE: Power trip with a badge. I mean the cops -- you give him a gun, you give him a badge, you sent him to an academy for I do not know,
nine months, three months and they go out on a power trip. Remember, these guys got a stressful job. Let us go back to Sandra Bland`s cigarette. She
could have put that cigarette in his face. Nobody knows that.
PINSKY: But, Larry, you said two different things. You said power trip with the gun and you said, the job these guys do is impossible.
LEVINE: Is stress --
PINSKY: It is impossible.
LEVINE: They need to decompress. They need more training.
SCHACHER: Right. They need more training how to deescalate a situation.
[21:45:00] WHITFIELD: Dr. Drew, and, let me just say this, I am tired of everyone misrepresenting what happened in this particular
pullover, because if you will look at that tape and you listen to the audio, each one is saying what the other is doing.
When the officer says that she kicked him. I do not believe that for a second. Because, you never hear him reference that. Trust me, if she
had kicked him, he would have said, "Oh, now you are kicking me." All he says is, "Stop resisting." He never says anything about her kicking him.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes. I think we have to really stay in the solution. There is a lot of emotion flying around these stories and we will keep reporting.
I agree with Loni that we have to evaluate each one on its own particular circumstances that we cannot indict all law enforcement.
And, we have to get together. It is just that -- What is wrong with us? What is wrong with us? How do we get together? That is one of the
things I admire about Trump, he is at least speaking -- you know I am just saying.
Say what you will about the guy. He is speaking freely and that people are unifying behind him. If we can get more positive unity amongst
ourselves, I think we get a lot more done than fracturing the way we are around these issues, that you sir said want to solve.
Let us talk about this. Let us stay in the solution as much as we possibly can, rather than in our anger and dismay and fracturing -- the
fracturing we are all feeling, we got to bring it together.
Coming up, we have a boy who dies after a desperate friend calls 911 for help. The operator hangs up on her. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:50:48] PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Instagram, all the social media thing.
Loni you have something for me.
COOMBS: Yes, Dr. Drew, I have surveillance video that is from a Florida jail in the booking area. And, this has not only gone viral, but
it has led to the suspension of a nine-year veteran of the police department.
As you can see, there is a man in the forefront who is handcuffed. He is homeless. He has been arrested for the 22nd time for intoxication
and trespassing. But, you see the police officer throwing peanuts at him, throwing them into his mouth and throwing them on the ground, and kind of
issuing dog commands.
And, I will tell you what? What bothers me so much, Dr. Drew, when we talk about police brutality and police officers treating civilians like
less than humans. This is where it starts.
SCHACHER: Yes.
COOMBS: It starts with these simple things of not showing dignity or respect to someone who is in custody. They are supposed to be taking care
of this person who is intoxicated. They are using him as an object.
PINSKY: And, if these guys are burned out or if they were improperly selected for the job, this is where we request do better, right?
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: Dondre.
WHITFIELD: Well, I have a wedding reception that was posted on YouTube a few days ago. They already have gotten like a half million hits
on this. So, the bride is about to throw her bouquet, and you will see this. There is a young teenager holding a young child right in the front
in this yellow dress. Watch this?
PINSKY: Here it goes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 3, 2, 1.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Now, I always say -- Now, before we make any jokes, the child is OK.
SCHACHER: OK.
WHIFIELD: But I always say, if you are not old enough to know that you need to secure the child and not the bouquet, then you are not old
enough to get married.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: It is inappropriate for marital bliss.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: OK. So, for those of you who are sick and tired of the body shaming on social media, you are going to love this new hash tag,
because it is actually "Empowering women to accept all of their flaws," and I say it in quote.
So, it is called the #thighreading, and it encourages women to post photos of their thighs, stretch marks, scars, moles, freckles, and all. It
was launched by a Twitter user named PrincessLabia. You heard that correctly, PrincesLabia.
WHITFIELD: Wow.
SCHACHER: And, she said that one day she was looking at her thighs and she was looking at her stretch marks, which we all have. I have them
too, cellulites, all of the above, and she was looking at her stretch marks and she said it resembled the lines in her palms.
So, it is plan words, palm reading, thigh reading. And, if you look on your Twitter, your Facebook, if you look under the hash tag, there are
thousands of posts of women embracing their thighs and I love it.
PINSKY: Fantastic. Thank you, guys.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Next up, this is this piece of tape I have been anxious to share with you. It is a boy, he may have died because of -- I do not want to say it
necessarily was, but man, a 911 dispatcher did not want to, quote, "Deal with this" because the woman who was watching a friend die was so excited
and demanding on the phone that the dispatcher just hung up. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:54:12] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. Another warning. This is a tough, tough piece of tape to listen to. It is a 17-year-old boy, who passed away following a
911 call for help. The dispatcher hung up on the caller. The boy had been wounded during a drive by shooting as he lay there in distress, dying.
A frantic woman who, apparently knew the teen calls 911, tries to communicate to the dispatcher what is going on? What help she needs? She
is obviously distressed, excited, who would not be? Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: I am keeping him alive.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Is he not breathing?
UNDIENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Barely! Take one more breath, one more breath, one more breath. -- there you go Jaydon. Good job! Just stay
with me, OK? OK? There you go. Good job, Jaydon.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is he breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: He is barely breathing! How many times do I have to tell you (EXPLETIVE WORD) tell you?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. You know what, ma`am? You could deal with this yourself. I am not going to deal with this, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: No. My friend is dying!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHACHER: My God! This is not a Starbucks. This is somebody`s life on the line. Are you kidding me?
WHITFIELD: Wow!
PINSKY: It is -- I got chills when I heard that.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: This is one of the biggest issues I think we have in society. No one, we talked about this during the break. I teach my kids -
- I have a 10-year-old daughter, 6-year-old son, and I teach them that your life is about service and sacrifice. No one in our society feels like they
are a servant to anyone any more.
PINSKY: Or they are accountable. That dispatcher from the Albuquerque Fire Department is now on administrative leave. An internal
investigation is underway.
But, please, everybody, let us never -- any of us ever -- come on now. Reminder, we are on SnapChat. You can join us there. DVR us. Watch
us anytime. Thank you for watching. We will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
END
