Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Campus Cop Indicted for Killing Unarmed Black Man; Cincinnati City Officials React to Shooting of Samuel DuBose. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired July 29, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. He said his body fell forward, must have pressed on the gas. He was dead instantly. Taking it a step further from the video -- and we were remarking about this, just watching the prosecutor again, in covering stories like these, I've never seen a prosecutor set something up quite like this, to say, this is the most asinine act he's ever seen, totally unwarranted, and this guy should never have been in law enforcement.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Joe Deters, the Hamilton County prosecutor, who you heard talking, was visibly angry, and that press conference went on for quite a period of time. He called it senseless. He called the stop, the stop for not having a front license plate, he called it, quote, "chicken crap stop." He said this is an officer who never should have been an officer. He did nothing to de-escalate the situation. You see so many of these prosecutors talk about these types of things. I've never heard a prosecutor with that type of anger.

And then later, to have Sam DuBose's mother come up and say that she could forgive this man for what happened. What a moment that was, relying so much on her faith. This is a family that ever since July 19 have been pushing for authorities to release body cam video because, in their words, they are saying this is not our brother. This is not a violent man. We want this body cam video. They pushed and pushed for it. And today, they finally got it. His sister coming forward, and saying, when asked, why did you want so badly for this tape to come out, and she said, because I know my brother, I know what he's capable of and what he's not capable of.

BALDWIN: She said specifically we knew the video would vindicate our brother.

CARROLL: Right.

BALDWIN: Jason Carroll, that you so much.

We have much more on this. We'll hear more from Samuel DuBose's family. And we just heard from the mother a moment ago and also other family members.

We're also hearing what we're about to hear from the mayor of Cincinnati. He will be holding a press conference. The University of Cincinnati where was shut down today, classes cancelled. We'll see what's happening, how that's resonating, and specifically the issue of body cameras versus what is written in the police report. We'll have a huge discussion next here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:17] BALDWIN: We're back with our breaking story here. If you are just joining us, University of Cincinnati police officer has just been indicted on murder charges in the shooting death of an unarmed black man. Samuel DuBose was just 43 years of age.

And you're about to see this body cam video. This is what the officer had been wearing from this traffic stop just 10 days ago. As we said moments ago, this police officer, Ray Tensing -- here's the video -- there he is walking into the police department and turning himself in. He's the one who pulled DuBose over saying DuBose's car was missing a front license plate.

And repeating my warning earlier, we'll play this traffic stop for you and the fatal shot. It is graphic and it is difficult to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TENSING: Be straight up with me. Are you suspended?

DUBOSE: No, I'm not suspended.

TENSING: Why don't you have your license on you?

DUBOSE: I just don't know. I'm sorry.

TENSING: Where do you stay at?

DUBOSE: Right around the corner.

TENSING: Well, as far as figuring out if you can have a license, take your seat belt off.

DUBOSE: I didn't do nothing.

TENSING: Go ahead and take your seat belt off. Stop! Stop!

Shots fired! Shots fired!

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: Did you get him?

TENSING: I don't know!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, CNN law enforcement analyst and retired police detective, Harry Hauck; and CNN legal analyst, Sunny Hostin.

Welcome to you both.

And, Harry, first to you, as a former law enforcement, reacting to this video. HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST & FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE:

Right.

BALDWIN: What do you see?

HOUCK: There's no way in hell that I can defend this officer's actions, a criminal action. I actually watched the video four times before I actually saw what happened here, but where this officer learned when and where he can fire his weapon, I have no clue where he learned that. And I agree with the district attorney in this case that this guy never should have been a police officer. And the fact that he lied on his report and another officer lied for him, there's nothing to indicate that that officer was dragged at all. You can pretty much clearly see that in the video after you watch it several times. And even if we haven't have this video, there were ways to check to see if that officer was dragged to corroborate what he said or not. Thank god we've got the video and that officer is in a lot of trouble.

BALDWIN: Let's be clear, before I have your voice, Sunny, and I know it's difficult to watch. You see the officer approaching the car because of the lack of a front license plate, a back and forth about having a license or not and clearly, as the prosecutor points out, merely in seconds, he pulls out his gun and shoots him. According to this prosecutor, because you see the movement on the video, because he shot Samuel DuBose, his body fell forward and hit the gas. And the car moves forward and takes the officer with him for a bit.

HOUCK: Right.

BALDWIN: You've seen it.

I mean, it's horrendous.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's horrendous, and I think the prosecutor is to be commended for acting so swiftly.

BALDWIN: 10 days.

HOSTIN: 10 days. And I think we're going to be seeing that more and more often. We're seeing the culmination of the Black Lives Matter movement, quite frankly, in seeing these actions being taken very, very quickly, because there is a crisis of confidence in our law enforcement officers. So prosecutors are now trying to act very, very quickly. I think what's also important to note is that these body cameras that the officer was wearing --

BALDWIN: Let's talk about that.

HOSTIN: -- we really need them on officers all over the country. I think it protects civilians, but it also protects officers. And the bottom line is in this particular video from the body cam, I think it shows the world what certain communities of color have known for quite some sometime, with this excessive use of force, excessive policing in communities of color. And I think to Harry's point, the lack of candor in the officer's report just underscores the need for these body cameras on officers at all times.

[14:40:32] BALDWIN: That is precisely the point that Samuel DuBose's sister was just saying. She said we knew this video would vindicate our brother.

We have that sound. I want you to hear what she said. This is his sister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED SISTER OF SAMUEL DUBOSE: If it were not for that video camera, Sam would be no different than all of the other incidents because the second officer was ready to corroborate every lie that the first officer said in the report. So I just want to be very clear that we feel for a lot of families out there. And I wasn't even really big on video cams, but every day, I'm going to be marching for video cams because my brother was being prosecuted for trying to kill a police officer, he dragged him, he assaulted him, he gave him alcohol, when there was never an open container of alcohol. He was everything -- anything but violent because he had children. For a weak ticket for some weak charges. That man shot my brother dead. This would be the thing if it weren't for that video camera.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Suddenly, I have a flash of a story I was covering Charleston with Walter Scott. Again, this is this issue of what was put in the police report, right, versus what we're seeing. In that case, it was the cell phone, and here you have the body camera.

And, Harry, you have a question, not that there wasn't already some doubt over some members of law enforcement.

HOUCK: Right.

BALDWIN: Here you have this perfect example over what was said in the police report, according to the officer and the other officer that he was being dragged when clearly that wasn't what happened.

HOUCK: It's clear it's a lie. The investigation has revealed that, finally, and the fact that -- you know, I'm definitely for officers wearing camera.

BALDWIN: Sure.

HOUCK: No doubt about it because it's going to stop a lot of false allegations against police officers and maybe some bad people doing some bad things and police officers doing some things.

BALDWIN: President Obama called for that, right, not too long ago.

HOUCK: It's a great thing. It's a great thing. And I hope police departments get the money to be able to do this. That's the question.

BALDWIN: Also, just, again hearing this prosecutor, jotting down the notes and watching this, saying words like calling it senseless, horrible, he never should have been a police officer, this is the most asinine act I've ever seen a police officer make, totally unwarranted.

HOSTIN: We've been talking about excessive use of force. In case after case after case, I feel like I've been sitting here for two years ago having this same discussion over and other and over again. I think you can speak to any officer, Harry, any trained officer -- and I've spoken to a couple -- and they all say it's inconsistent with police training. Officers are trained in de-escalation of force, not escalation of force. And everything that happened in this stop from beginning to shooting was improper, in my view, was completely improper.

HOUCK: Well, I think the stop was fine. I have no problem with the stop itself.

HOSTIN: I'm not prepared to say that.

HOUCK: Based on the stop. I don't know if it's legal or not to have a front plate in Ohio or not, and that's allegedly what the officer stopped him for. If we find out it's OK to not have a plate in the front of the vehicle --

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: Then the stop itself is a problem.

HOUCK: -- then the stop is not good.

Exactly.

HOSTIN: But you have a prosecutor saying this is a chicken crap stop. And we know what that means. Often times, there are officers --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: Remember, cops got to pull people over because the mayor wants money in the coffers. That's the result.

HOSTIN: That's right. That's right. We saw a lot of that in Ferguson. We saw that -- we see that all over the country.

HOUCK: But Ferguson, we know the police officer acted properly in Ferguson.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: I'm talking about what the Justice Department report found is that a lot of officers were stopping people and ticketing people as a way revenue for the city.

HOUCK: That's very true.

HOSTIN: And so if this is that chicken crap stop, then that's another example I think of police reform that is sorely, sorely needed in communities all over the country.

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, Harry Houck, thank you both very much. We're about to hear from the mayor of Cincinnati, John Cranley, in a

moment. We know in the wake of this, this sort of presumed indictment -- that's what some folks were anticipating -- they have closed down the campus at the University of Cincinnati. Classes were cancelled. And we're about to hear from the mayor, and he will call for calm in his city. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:12] BALDWIN: All right. In the wake of the murder indictment handed down against the University of Cincinnati police officer, we're listening to city officials react. Here we go.

HARRY BLACK, CINCINNATI CITY MANAGER: -- late yesterday, or first thing this morning, indictments have been issued, and we are pleased that the process worked as we've been saying all along. Through a very difficult situation, the body camera footage is now released. Clearly, when you review the video, something went tragically wrong with this traffic stop, and loss of life as a result. The process to answer the question as to exactly what happened in progressing through will be and will is progressing through the court system. We'll also continue to support the University of Cincinnati however we can.

The bottom line is that a life has been lost. We need to make sure we learn something from this situation to ensure that Mr. DuBose's death is not in vain.

We understand tensions are high in our city. We are encouraging folks to peacefully express how they are feeling, that is an important part of the Democratic process. As we always do, we are making preparations for any scenario that may present themselves.

This afternoon, you'll hear from Mayor John Cranley, followed by the President Santa Ono of the University of Cincinnati, followed by Chief Blackwell.

At this time, I'll ask Mayor Cranley to offer remarks.

JOHN CRANLEY, (D), MAYOR OF CINCINNATI: First, let me just say I had a chance to meet this morning with the family, and it was a very sad occasion, lots of tears. But I will tell you that as you heard in the press conference just a little while ago that the family is in mourning but also wants to honor the spirit of Samuel's life. And as they described him, he was a jokester but he was not a violent man, and they want him to be remembered as such. And they want this city to act in a way to honor his spirit. And I, on behalf of the city, was able to express our condolences to the family. And I want to thank the family for their leadership at this time.

The second thing I want to say is I think we all hoped that the charges that would come out of the grand jury would match the video, the actions on the video, that if the actions on the video were justified, that that would be the charge or no charge, and if the actions were not justified, the actions would reflect that. We wanted the right thing to be done, the just thing to be done, the fair thing to be done. We wanted the truth to come out. And when you look at, for example, the videos in New York earlier this year and you see no charge was brought, there was a great sense that maybe justice was not done.

[14:50:35] In this case, I want to thank Prosecutor Joe Deters for his extraordinary leadership, not for pushing an agenda, but for doing the right thing. And I've known Joe for almost 20 years, and he has done the city an enormous public service today. I want to thank him and his office for moving quickly in the pursuit of the right thing.

We are going to get through this with the help of the family and the help of the many people in this room. Our police department is prepared and ready to deal with anything that happens today or tomorrow or the next couple of days. We have the best police department in the world. We respect the right of people to peacefully protest and to exercise their First Amendment rights. And there is obviously reason for people to be angry today and upset, and people deserve the right to do so in a public manner. That's what this country is all about. Our police department is prepared to respect that. Our police department is also prepared with honoring Sam DuBose's life, which was nonviolent, and the family has called for the same.

I also want to take a minute to thank the unity of the city right now. We have great civil rights leaders, like Bishop Bobby Hilton and Pete Mingo here, who have been walking the streets, who have been talking to the community, who have lots of experience, urging calm and peace, and also demanding justice.

I want to thank my colleagues. We've got councilman and former police officer, Wendall Young (ph); Councilwoman Yvette Simpson (ph); and Councilwoman Ally Murray (ph); council member, Charles Winderg (ph); and Councilman Smitherman (ph), who is on a family vacation but is constantly calling in. Woody Allen said, "Half of life is just showing up," and I'm proud that this city and this city council is here and present at a tough time for our city.

I also want to take special acknowledgement of State Representative Kristi Bryant (ph), who is here, and Cecil Thomas (ph), who is here. Cecil was an incredible leader back in 2001 and really helped this city. And every time I would turn on the TV, he was out there walking the walk. So we are blessed to have a lot of people who have worked together over many years and those relationships are activated now, and we are in this together.

I urge people to go about their business. Those who need to exercise their moral outrage are allowed to do so, of course, in a peaceful way, and we will respect that. But we, Cincinnati, will get through this. We will get through this with a fair justice process that Joe Deters has overseen, and with a professional police department that is there on the street, and we will continue to work with our great university, the University of Cincinnati and its leader, who we've gotten to know over the last several of years, who really epitomized the spirit of Cincinnati, and that is President Santa Ono, who will now speak.

Thank you. DR. SANTA J. ONO, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI: I, too, had a

chance to meet with the family earlier today.

[14:55:00] BALDWIN: We'll pull away from this. The crux of all of this was hearing from the mayor of Cincinnati, Mayor John Cranley, reacting to the news, this murder indictment of Samuel DuBose 10 days after he was shot and killed during a traffic stop there University of Cincinnati police officer. That Officer Ray Tensing has now turned himself in, now facing this murder charge.

We're going to discuss this further. Again, the University of Cincinnati campus shut down today, classes cancelled. We'll hear more from Harry Houck and Marc Lamont Hill on the other side of a quick commercial break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. I'm going to take you back to that news conference in Cincinnati. Here is the police chief.

CHIEF JEFFREY BLACKWELL, CHIEF, CINCINNATI POLICE DEPARTMENT: -- demonstrative of an outstanding commitment to justice and transparency and truth-telling. While we are hopeful for the peaceful protesting of today's decision, make no mistake that we are operationally prepared to respond to other things that may occur in our community. Violence and lawlessness cannot and will not be tolerated.

Thank you.

BLACK: OK. At this time, we will take several questions.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).

ONO: I have not. The policing that's required of university and college police are very different than the policing in a metropolitan area. As you've heard from Chief Blackwell, we are continuously talking about how to strengthen that partnership. It's been around for decades, and the important thing is to ensure the safety of the entire community and also, frankly, of the university community. And that will require honest conversations involving, as I said, top-to- bottom review of UCPD. We have a lot of great men and women in UCPD and so, as I said, we will complete that top-to-bottom review. We will monitor what we're doing over -- in a data-driven way over whatever length of time is necessary to ensure that we move beyond this. And we will partner very in a meaningful way with the Cincinnati police. As we speak, there are individuals from district four, district five, together with UCPD staff, on the University of Cincinnati campus, so that kind of partnership is really essential.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

CRANLEY: First of all, let me say that, as Santa has already said, there's going to be an independent investigation, review of the U.C. Police Department. But Santa and I have already said that reform obviously needs to be had, to at least bring the U.C. Police Department in conformity with our collaborative agreement, clearly, non-negotiable at this point.