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Debris From Malaysia Air Flight 370 Possibly Located. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired July 30, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin, top of the hour.

Got more on our breaking story, major development in the debris found that is considered the first major lead in the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. In fact, confirmation may come very, very soon.

But I can tell you the confidence is high from investigators at Boeing. This is the plane's maker. That is from a source. Not only because it looks like a piece of the wing that's called a flaperon, but also because of this number that is stamped on it. The number is 657BB.

And we're getting images from different local newspapers. Obviously, this is where a flaperon would be located on the actual plane. There's the newspaper. The source says it matches a component number on a schematic of a 777 and this online picture appears to be from a Boeing maintenance manual.

The debris was found off the coast of Reunion Island. This is near Madagascar off of Africa here. That is -- when you look at the broader scheme of things, it's 2,300 miles from the current search site and close to 4,000 miles from where MH370 vanished in March 8 of last year.

Let me go first to Reunion Island to CNN's Nima Elbagir with more on this piece of debris.

And tell me, is it still there on the island or has it made its way to France yet?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are awaiting for confirmation that it's heading for facilities in the South of France.

They are trying really to get this going as quickly as possible, so investigators are trying to figure out whether it would be more useful for them to get to that to them as quickly as possible or to get here, because more debris has made its way to shore this morning, Brooke.

And we can show you video of police helicopters circling that shoreline, going quite low, trying to keep as close of an eye as possible on anything and everything that is making its way to shore, because given the pattern of the current that they believe could have been responsible for this debris, if it's indeed from MH370, making it all the way across from Australia to here off the coast of Africa, they believe that there might actually be more making its way here.

And having that close look at the debris, having a look at the barnacle formations on a lot of that debris will help them figure out where it was, how deep it was and how long it was in the water. So that really now is the balancing act for investigators. Do they get this to them as quickly as possible or do they try and get out here in case more makes it way to shore, Brooke?

BALDWIN: Nima, let me just back up. Who found this? Who spotted this?

ELBAGIR: This was actually found by a cleanup crew and we managed to speak to one of them. It's pretty extraordinary, because as far as most of them were concerned, this was just -- it could be plywood, it could be anything.

But one guy, a guy named Johnny (ph) who actually does this in his spare time, he told me that he just had a sense that this mattered, that this was important and he went in for a closer look. While some of the rest of the crew was scraping some of that really crucial evidence, some of those barnacles off of the piece of the plane, he actually shouted at them to stop. And he said it looked like a piece of the plane to him.

And he just got this sense that this -- that this perhaps was something that could help explain why people had died, where people had died who knows where. And it's because of him that the investigators made it down there so quickly. He really is just an extraordinary person and he said he just got a sense that this was deserving of respect and if this was someone that he cared about, he would want to know that everything had been done to make sure that this was preserved in the way that it needed to, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Pretty astute, smart-thinking men.

Thank you so much, Nima Elbagir, live on Reunion Island.

Of course, you have the investigation piece of it and then you have the family members. And I can't even begin to imagine the spectrum of emotions that these family members of the 239 missing souls from Flight 370, what they have been going through the last 15 or so months and especially now with this discovery.

They tell CNN they want 100 percent certainty that this is indeed the Malaysian airplane.

Let's go to Beijing to my colleague Will Ripley, who was on this from the very beginning and is now back on the possibility of discovery.

How are they doing, how are they coping, Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the first people we heard from I guess now yesterday, Brooke, her husband was on the plane and she said her heart is tortured. This has brought her back to early March of last year.

And she's home and these people have been sent home. Their resource center here in Beijing has been shut down. Their hot line that they can call for help, that is no longer operational.

[15:05:05]

So, they're sitting at home scattered, the families of 153 people scattered around China, 239 people all around the world from so many different countries. They are having to deal with this on their own and certainly speaking, at least from what we're hearing from the families in China, they are not getting any information through official channels.

And so they are still skeptical. They still haven't seen any proof. They wonder, OK, let's say this is a piece from MH370. Well, where is the rest of the plane? Where are the people that I love? Where is the proof that they are not still alive somewhere? That's what these people are struggling with. They are in limbo and that's the most painful part of this, that more than 500 days on, they are still in limbo. They still don't know. And this is bringing them back to day one.

BALDWIN: Will Ripley, thank you, thinking about them, and as we are mindful of these family members, it's the investigation.

Let's get these experts to weigh in on and what the course of the steps that would happen next here.

With me now, CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest. And I also have Shawn Pruchnicki. He is an air safety expert from Ohio State Center for Aviation Studies and a former flight accident investigator.

Richard Quest, let me just begin with you first. This is a side question just looking at Nima Elbagir and Reunion Island and talking about that cleanup worker.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BALDWIN: Is it possible that this piece of debris had been, you know, off the coast of this little island for days, weeks, months?

QUEST: Oh, absolutely.

BALDWIN: We're just now talking about it. That doesn't mean that it hasn't been there.

QUEST: You have got this certain distance on how far it's reasonable to go. Now, it works out at roughly 10 miles a day from the crash to when it gets there.

And oceanographers that I have spoken to say that's a reasonable amount of time for it to have gone. But could it have done 30 miles in a day and nothing in two or three days or whatever? Absolutely. Look, it didn't arrive two weeks after the incident. So it certainly has taken months to get across the ocean. But has it been sitting there in the waters for a month, six weeks, two days? Absolutely, we don't know.

BALDWIN: Shawn, when will they be able to -- we keep talking about they're looking at this number, the component number on this flaperon. I should back up and have you explain even what a flaperon is. And then the next question being how would they then match it to a 777 and then match it to MH370?

SHAWN PRUCHNICKI, FORMER FLIGHT ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: OK. So the flaperon is one of the control surfaces of the airplane. In other words, it's part of the surface that moves on the wing or on other parts on the airplane that helps us steer the aircraft.

So a flaperon is an example of one that is out on the wing and it plays a role in helping us bank the aircraft. It's one of those surfaces you see moving around out on the wing when you're over the wing and looking out the window or flying. That's what it does.

As far as matching it goes, it just depends on what numbers they find. One of the things that is probably going to have to happen is they are going to have to get on the inside of this to be able to look for any other numbers. I'm not sure where Boeing puts other numbers, like serial numbers and so forth. I'm willing to bet that they have already talked about that with Boeing.

When this part arrives -- and I understand it's going to France, I think is what I just though heard before the break -- they are going to eventually need to cut this open and start looking for those other numbers, numbers that will definitively match it to either MH370 or not.

BALDWIN: Richard, the whole world has been watching this, especially in those first few months. And just even hearing Will Ripley saying one of the family members says her heart is tortured, that said, when you hear Boeing so quickly coming out and saying we are confident?

QUEST: Boeing has said, we believe and we're confident it's from a 777.

BALDWIN: How many 777s have disappeared over the ocean?

QUEST: Hang on. Stay with me on this.

BALDWIN: OK.

QUEST: Because this is when you have got to sort of row back and look at how the families are responding.

BALDWIN: Yes.

QUEST: And how the government, say, the Chinese government or Malaysian government or the French, handle this information.

So now the goal is to find out, is this from MH370? That's the goal. But it doesn't matter -- the object has to be to say so definitively, to look at these various struts and say so definitively. And that's what is going to take time. As a news organization, we can get people in very fast, because that's

what we do. We are very fast when it happens. So, we have already got somebody on Reunion Island. But an airline it sort of takes another day or two to get people there and the BEA in France, they are not in quite the same sort of -- go, just get there.

BALDWIN: Yes.

QUEST: It takes longer because you have got to work out, what are we going to need? How are we going to anticipate it? What information are we getting on the ground?

Look at this thing. It's gone already.

BALDWIN: It will get come back.

QUEST: That's the challenge that they have. They are looking at this.

BALDWIN: There you go.

QUEST: They are looking at these rivets. Then they're deciding, do we go? Now let's go. Do we have it bring it back to Toulouse to look at it properly? What else could it be?

[15:10:00]

And they don't enjoy the luxury of getting it wrong too many times. And that's why it appears it's taking them so long.

BALDWIN: With pieces of a plane, don't they normally come in a cluster? Why is there just this one piece?

QUEST: They come in a cluster if it's just happened.

BALDWIN: Ah. Gotcha.

QUEST: But this is 14, 15 months ago. So people say -- and Shawn may have some thoughts on this as an investigator -- people say, well, usually, get more planes out there, looking around Reunion Island, see what else is there.

But they couldn't find it when it was -- when they knew pretty much the area.

BALDWIN: Shawn, weigh in. I want to hear your voice on that, to that point.

PRUCHNICKI: OK. So, there's a couple things. I think we need to back up even further from what Richard said.

As an investigator, there's a couple other things I want to know. There's other explanations about why this could be out there. I'm willing to subscribe to the idea that this is a Boeing 777 flaperon. I don't think that is too much of a stretch at this point.

BALDWIN: OK.

PRUCHNICKI: But I think the question we have to answer, there are other reasons why we find airplane parts out there. I think it's unlikely, I think it's a less plausible explanation, but, as an investigator, everything is still on the table.

And what I would want to know is if I were working on this investigation is have there been any other 777s that have lost flaperons? A part like this could come off an airplane and it will fly just find. We have seen this from time to time. In fact, this happens. We see this inside the industry and it never makes the news.

The world as a whole is less aware of this. But parts do fall off of airplanes. I would want to know if there are any operators that have lost a flaperon in the last few years, certainly anywhere near the Indian Ocean.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Would you they have to keep track of that?

PRUCHNICKI: Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: That's a very good point.

(CROSSTALK)

PRUCHNICKI: Richard, hold on a second.

QUEST: He's also looking at anybody else who says they have lost a flaperon in that part of the world.

BALDWIN: They would be, OK.

(CROSSTALK)

PRUCHNICKI: And, Brooke, it actually goes further than that.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Shawn.

PRUCHNICKI: Hang on, Richard. Hold on just a second.

So let me finish my thought. That's the first part of it. But the second part of it is also wanting to know just about shipping. I don't know how Boeing transports. I know they do move airplane parts via by ocean liner from time to time and by ships. And we learned from MH370 -- and I think we were all surprised how many containers fall off of ships, right?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: A lot of junk in the ocean. PRUCHNICKI: We were all very surprised last spring to learn that. A

lot of junk in the ocean, right?

I think another question, as an investigation, needs to make a phone call to Boeing and just simply saying, have you lost any parts? Did you lose any containers shipping from one place to another? I think that both of these are less likely than actually finding MH370, but as an investigator, there's still very much stuff on the table. And they have to be ruled out.

And I agree with Richard's points.

BALDWIN: When they are looking at this flaperon, Richard, what will they be able to tell? You mentioned some of the pieces.

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Look at it here, just here. Freeze the picture. Freeze the picture. You can immediately see some of the things that they will be looking at.

This is the bit that connects to the -- this is the front part of it. It's pretty much undamaged. So, clearly, this front part here -- so clearly there was no major impact on that side that looks like it. They will be looking to see if there are any...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Impact meaning with the water?

QUEST: Yes, with the water -- oh, no. If this is connected to another part of the plane, when the plane went in, did it hit another part of the plane? Did it concertina into part of the plane?

And then you look at these bits here. You're going to be looking and bearing in mind it's been in the water a long time if it's MH370, but you're going to looking to see which way do these tears go and what is lost from the other side of the trailing side? And from that -- and Shawn is much more experienced than myself at this -- you will be able to tell from the wrenches and the tears and the compressions.

BALDWIN: But does it -- just quickly, Shawn, does it look -- this is my final question. But does it look, for lack of a better word, mangled to you?

PRUCHNICKI: No. No, not at all. In fact, it looks amazingly intact.

BALDWIN: It does.

(CROSSTALK)

PRUCHNICKI: Yes, absolutely.

And what that tells me as an investigator is -- and as Richard started to talk about, it's the primary and secondary impacts that we see on parts when we look at them. This does not indicate that the way this part -- that it was a high-angle impact. If this came off of an airplane hitting the water, from looking at this single part, I don't see anything that really supports that wing struck the water at a severe angle, because as Richard started to talk about was, you would see crumpling and you would see compression.

As the front of the wing hits the water, everybody from the back, inertia takes over and it smashes into the front. We see things that are compressed. You see damage on the leading edge and on the trailing edge. It's usually more on the leading edge with a steep impact.

None of that seems to be present with this. What does that suggest? If it's from 370, it suggests a fairly angle of impact, possibly a nice gentle touchdown in the water. But I want to see the underside of it. I want to see where the water did hit at any angle.

[15:15:03]

That's going to be more telling and, also, one other thing I want to add that I think it's important we talk about, again, as an investigator, I don't see any soot on this part. That doesn't say that -- that doesn't rule out the airplane was on fire, but what that potentially rules out was that that part of the airplane wasn't on fire.

We literally have 2,000 explanations on the table. That's possibly one of them answered, that that area was not on fire. You should still see soot if it was exposed to fire.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Got to go. I have more questions. We will bring you guys back. Richard Quest, Shawn Pruchnicki, thank you so much.

I'm going to hold on to those, because next we have to take you live to the tarmac, where we get a really look at these 777s and these parts up close, what the shape could tell us about what exactly happened. We will take you there.

Also, the families. We have to continue talking about the families. A loved one from a previous crash in fact just told me today really is the toughest day for a lot of these survivors. We will talk to someone representing these families in the mystery of Flight 370 and how some of this information coming out of discovery could change things legally speaking. This is CNN's special live coverage. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:30]

BALDWIN: All right.

On this breaking story, we have a source telling CNN that Boeing officials are confident that the plane debris found on this island matches that of a model 777, of course the very same model as the missing Malaysia Flight 370. Nick Malice is back with me. He's a Marine debris specialist and

conservation biologist.

So, Nick, let me just get straight to our questions. I want you to first describe the ocean currents in the Indian Ocean and I'm asking because I have just been wondering, you know, geographically if this would all fit, then, how this piece washed up. And then let me add actually this. This is actually from Twitter. I have this question. "Can oceanographers work backwards from the debris' final location and follow ocean currents to determine their initial location?"

NICK MALLOS, MARINE DEBRIS SPECIALIST: Yes, let me address your first question.

BALDWIN: Sorry. Threw a lot at you.

(CROSSTALK)

MALLOS: No worries.

The Indian Ocean has kind of pretty defined currents that oscillate in a counterclockwise direction around the entire basin. And one of strongest currents is that which runs east to west across the equator, across the ocean.

So, it is certainly possible and could be likely that this piece of wing is in fact from the Malaysia Airlines flight wreckage, because where that search area is, if in fact that plane broke up, it could transport that large piece of buoyant debris across the entire Indian Ocean and deposit it on the beaches of Reunion Island.

BALDWIN: Wow.

MALLOS: From an oceanographic standpoint, it's certainly possible.

To address your second question -- actually, could you...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me -- I'm sorry. Here's the question.

MALLOS: No worries.

BALDWIN: This is from Twitter. ""Can oceanographers work backwards from the debris' final location and follow ocean currents to determine their initial location?"

MALLOS: They can. And certainly they can't do it with exact precision to tell you exactly where the plane when in.

But we saw similar modeling take place after the March 2011 Japan tsunami, where once debris starts washing ashore onto locations, you can then model and reverse-model kind of based on the ocean currents and based on the wind that has been affecting the sea surface over time to narrow down that geographic region that may indicate, you know, where that plane entered the water. BALDWIN: OK. Nick Mallos, thank you very much. I'm sure we will

talk again soon.

Meantime, got to take you live to this tarmac here for a firsthand look at a Boeing 777 and the precise plane part that's now really this focal point of the investigation.

And our expert on the scenes know something interesting about this piece of wreckage. We will compare it to the actual piece on this plane.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:20]

BALDWIN: Hope, that is all families of the 239 people who were on board that Malaysian Air Flight 370, that is what they are clinging onto right now because for basically 15 months now, they have had no answers and now the discovery of this debris off the coast of this French island of Reunion in the Indian Ocean brings mixed emotions to these mothers and sons and aunts and uncles who have been waiting so long for something.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH BAJC, PARTNER OF MISSING PASSENGER: It's just one more image we don't have confirmation of. As Grace (ph) and Chiquita (ph) and Catherine Rendrin (ph) had said yesterday as well, we have had so many instances of this, false alarms, that until there's some verification, we need to step back from it. Otherwise, it's just too exhausting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I have got pilot and aviation attorney Brian Alexander, who is back with us now to talk through the legalities of this and what could change.

But, first, you just heard her talk about all of the different false starts for these families. Your firm has been in touch with a number of the families in the last 24 hours. Can you just -- where are their heads right now?

BRIAN ALEXANDER, ATTORNEY: I really think you said it best, Brooke. It's a mixed bag of emotions right now.

They are -- it's been a torturous 15 months.

BALDWIN: Can't imagine.

ALEXANDER: With the fits and starts on information, with the initial delays and the debacle that it was for the first few weeks and months.

I think now, in the next few days and hours, as this is confirmed to be absolutely certain a piece of the wreckage, there may be some hope that it will lead to ultimately perhaps locating the rest of the wreckage, you know, the first step in many steps, but maybe a little bit more of a positive pace of the flow of information. That's one thing that's important still to the families.

BALDWIN: So then once the puzzle, if the puzzle begins to really sort of fill in, that's where you, you know, really come in as far as answering the question, and hopefully they will find those black boxes, is, what is it a malfunction, was it something criminal, was it pilot error? And how will what they find determine what happens for the families?

ALEXANDER: Well, here again, finding one piece, it's a large piece. It may or may not really lead to any immediate conclusions to be drawn, and likely not.

But that's possible. They will metallurgists take a look at it, if there is information that can be gleaned from this particular piece. But it's doubtful that it will answer all of the questions. But there's also other experts that could become involved to maybe help to trace the path of this piece of wreckage. Maybe additional pieces, of course, we hope will be found in the same area.

And all these things may help for them to ultimately do what will be most important, and that is to find the main pieces of the wreckage and the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, which would be most telling as to what the cause was.