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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Plane Debris Found: Is It Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?; Trump's Immigration Plan: "Move 'Em Out". Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired July 30, 2015 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:09] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this morning: Debris from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 may have been found -- a piece of the plane, the same type, same color of the vanished jetliner on a remote island on the western Indian Ocean.

Team coverage breaking down this new information and the reaction from families this morning all begins right now.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to EARLY START. I'm John Berman. It's Thursday, July 30th, 4:00 a.m. in the East. We welcome our viewers here in the United States and all around the world.

But breaking news this morning, a possible turning point in the hunt for the missing airliner, Malaysia Airline Flight 370. Sources close to the investigation tell CNN that a piece of debris on the shore of the remote Indian Ocean island appears to be from a Boeing 777. That is the same model as MH370, which disappeared with 249 people on board in March of 2014.

The debris apparently a flaperon, a flap from a wing, was found on Reunion Island, about 2,300 miles from the area where the plane is believed to have gone down, at least where they have been searching.

CNN's CNN's David Molko joins us now with the latest.

Good morning, David.

DAVID MOLKO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

There is a sense that authorities and investigators on this have to get it right, 239 families are watching. They are counting on them. At this point, this is all they have. Remember, no physical debris of MH370 has ever been found.

Australians say the French are running the investigation on this. Now, the French say the Malaysians are looking into. They have a team on the way to the island, a number of clues coming out just in the last couple of hours. An inscription, a number on this piece, BB670. Australians say that's not a serial number or registration. It could be maintenance number.

John, they are looking at the barnacles on this, to see if it's consistent with something that might have been in the water for 17 months.

Australia's deputy prime minister spoke just a short ago. He talked about the likelihood that this piece of debris is from the missing plane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN TRUSS, AUSTRALIAN DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: This is obviously a very significant development. It's the first real evidence that there's a possibility that a part of the aircraft may have been found. It's too early to make that judgment. But, clearly, we are treating this as a major lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MOLKO: John, they are proceeding with caution here. The big question, though, if this is identified as from the Malaysia Airlines flight, will it help them find the plane?

I've been talking about to the lead investigator in Australia. He says all of this, the fact this is picked up even so far away, is consistent with the current search area with where they are looking. They are optimistic. They believe the plane is still there, but experts, including oceanographers say because the debris traveled so far and over 16 months, it is very, very doubtful that they could actually trace it back and reduce the search area.

John, the search continues in the southern Indian Ocean.

BERMAN: Well, the search is renewed this morning. That is for sure.

David, tell me about this piece of debris, this flaperon. If it really is from a Boeing 777, it would almost have to be from MH370, correct? Because no other 777 has gone down in the Indian Ocean, and as far as we know none other is missing that kind of part.

MOLKO: John, that certainly seems to be the case. We've heard this from a lot of accident investigators, Mary Schiavo, David Soucie, who are very experienced with these types of investigations. What I can add to that is I've talked to an oceanographer in Perth in western Australian who knows this waters very well, understands the current, and he says whatever has washed up near Reunion would have had to come from the southern atmosphere, and it wouldn't have had to come from the east across to the west.

Still, John, a lot of caution this morning as investigators take a close look. This is an international effort with Malaysia, France, Boeing, the U.S., and Australia all involved, taking this very seriously and looking very closely, John. They have to get this right for the sake of those families of those onboard.

BERMAN: Especially after all this time, especially so many false turns.

David Molko for us, thank you so much. So, CNN is on Reunion Island, in that remote part of the western

Indian Ocean. Our correspondent Robyn Kriel landed there just a short time ago. She is making her way to the scene of the wings discovery right in the coastline. It was discovered by people cleaning the beach.

And Robyn joins us by phone now.

Robyn, thank you for being with us. First, just explain to us where reunion island is.

ROBYN KRIEL, CNN AFRICA CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, just to give you an idea, it is in the Indian Ocean, John. This is a French island east of Madagascar, of the continent of Africa. It's about 844,000 people.

Everyone is talking about the discovery, possible discovery of MH370, not confirmed as of yet.

[04:05:03] It is a very small island, volcanic island. Yes, the debris washed up on beach, given over to French authorities. It is a French island. The French air force that has a base here and they are conducting the search. They are awaiting Malaysian authorities to take over the search, John, and waiting for other authorities to arrive. This is Australian Transportation Safety Board, so that they can do this, together, as you said, they want to get this right.

BERMAN: And I imagine, Robyn, at this point, they are also looking elsewhere on the coastline to see if they might be able to find any other pieces.

KRIEL: Indeed. It doesn't necessarily mean, John, because they found one piece that they will find a lot more pieces. It could be one piece that is floated to this particular area. It is not an exact science like the head of the ATSB, the Australian Transportation Safety Board, saying that a number of factors come into play, wind, current and weather has something to do with it as well.

But he's not ruling it is not inconsistent with the drift modeling that they had been studying. That's the gyres and currents of the ocean. He also says it's not inconsistent with the search area that they are covering. This is part of search area, John, obviously a vast search area, John. And family members cannot believe how far away if this is part of MH370, they cannot believe how far away it is from the plane's original destination. That will come into the investigation as well.

BERMAN: And as far as you know, have investigators arrived from Malaysia, from Boeing, from elsewhere? Or is this still -- the investigation involving most of Reunion Island officials?

KRIEL: Well, John, it took us considerable effort to get here and we were quite close. We were just in Nairobi, Kenya. So, I would imagine that it would take Malaysian officials and others quite a while to get here. It is not an island you can get direct flight. So, you have to take a trip through Madagascar for most of these stops. There are not a lot of flights.

But what we can tell you, Boeing has not yet said that piece with whatever that number is presumably a maintenance aircraft number, Boeing has not said specifically that is a piece of their part, they would know if that was a piece of their part. They would know if it belonged to a 777. They have not stated that yet, but that might be because they need to talk to Malaysian Airline officials.

When I talked to an expert and he said the fact it could be their part. He said it may be a case they haven't spoken yet and they haven't woken up the necessary people in the necessary time zone. So, he said because it's not an emergency, like a day after the crash, there could still be survivors in the sea. This would not be dealt with as say within the first 48 hours of the aircraft crash.

BERMAN: All right. Robyn Kriel, we will let you get back to your reporting. Right now, Robyn Kriel reporter on Reunion Island, where this piece of debris possibly from MH370 was found. It looks like a flaperon from a 777. They are waiting confirmation from that right nbow.

Boeing could figure that out quickly, but as Robyn said, they want to be 100 percent correct, 100 percent -- 99 is not enough, especially not for the families. And anxiously awaiting this morning are the families of those onboard MH370, the passengers, the family of the passengers, the family of the crew they have just been waiting and mourning since the plane disappeared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH BAJC, PARTNER, PHILIP WOOD WAS ON MH370: If ultimately this is a piece of the wing, then that little thread of hope I have been holding on to will have to break. And reality will have to take over. But, yes, up until now, I and most of the family members have continued to believe that until we have a body, we can't give up hoping that they will come back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And there's no such thing as closure, I think for these families. Most of the passengers on MH370 were Chinese citizens. The crew is from Malaysia.

CNN's Andrew Stevens spent time with their loved ones in the days since the disappearance. He joins us now from Malaysia.

Good morning, Andrew.

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Yes, 239 souls aboard MH370. I have been staying in touch with many of the family members particularly here in Kuala Lumpur. I have been speaking to them over the last couple hours since we got down here, and they are really saying at the moment we have been here before, John. You remember just after MH370 disappeared, there was a lot of speculation, a lot of false leads and false reporting about the actual plane being found which turned out to be untrue.

So, they are just not prepared at this stage until there is a complete confirmation.

[04:10:02] This is why there is so much caution coming from the authorities as well. They are not prepared to think that this actually may be part of the plane.

Interestingly, the deputy transport minister here in Malaysia told reporters a couple hours ago, he is almost certain this flaperon as it is being called, was part of a 777. Now, the people I have been talking to say that they're torn right now did not say it was 370, but it was part of a 777. The people I have talked to say are torn between the fact they want to know exactly what happened to their loved ones, but they don't want to know. They don't want that feeling that it is over, that they have lost their loved ones.

They are still talking to me about the possibility of a miracle. It's that sort of hope against hope which is still here, John. You hear that here in Malaysia, no doubt. You also hear that in China, 15 nationals from 15 nations on that flight.

So, really, it is slowly going at the moment. Malaysians will be responsible for actually identifying and saying where this piece of debris has come from. They will work with Boeing and with the French at Reunion to wait and see. But at this stage, the Australian deputy prime minister said it still could be some time before we get to know exactly what that piece of debris is and where it's from.

BERMAN: All right, Andrew Stevens for us in Malaysia.

Let me read a statement we did get from some of the families onboard, the Chinese families onboard. They said, "We will follow the developments and hope to receive the official confirmation as soon as possible. We do not want to hear guarantees and 99 percent likelihood from certain authorities. We need confirmation of 100 percent certainty."

That is why everyone is being so careful right now, and these families say, even though, even if this debris is from MH370, it will not answer all of the questions they have.

Let's talk more about what investigators are looking at right now. Joining us is Justin Green. He is an aviation attorney and former military pilot, now the president of the International Air and Transportation Safety Bar Association.

Justin, thanks for coming in this morning. You had a chance to look at the pictures. Let me just get your first thoughts.

JUSTIN GREEN, AVIATION ATTORNEY AND FORMER MILITARY PILOT: I think it's probably the number one lead that's come out since the airplane disappeared. And I think I agree 100 percent with the idea that you need 100 percent. Until we know for sure, professionals are not going to confirm that this is indeed from a 777 or from Malaysia Airline 370. BERMAN: What we know is a big piece of debris, about nine or ten

feet. It looks to be a flaperon. What is a flaperon?

GREEN: You know, the airplane has different control surfaces. You have airlines that control the airplane in yaw -- I'm sorry -- in yaw which means basically turning the airplane. A flaperon combines the features of the airline, at high speed, it helps turn the airplane. As the airplane is landing, it goes down like flaps, which changes the camber of the wing, which gives more lift as the airplanes landing.

BERMAN: And I've heard experts say it is a large piece of debris, and that indicates that perhaps this plane had a somewhat controlled landing. That is to say it didn't drop from the sky in absolutely get obliterated as it hit the water.

GREEN: I think it came apart as a component. Obviously, there is damage on the part which indicates there was an impact with the water. But the degree of damage is going to show that just what you said. What was the impact force is?

It also confirmed how the airplane went into the water. But as you said before, it's not going to answer all of the questions. It is the first piece of the puzzle. The more important pieces are still missing.

BERMAN: We heard a lot of talk about the barnacles as well. It's fascinating to me that the piece of debris, they could tell their own story.

GREEN: If you look at the disciplines involved here, you can have oceanographers taking a look at the currents. Could this have come to where they found it on Reunion Island, if the plane indeed crashed where the investigators think it crashed?

Second thing is marine biologists. Are they going to be able to find out whether this component has been in the water for the requisite amount of time? So, there's a lot of different questions. But I think perhaps most importantly is whether where it is found and when it is found will have the investigators reexamine where they are now looking.

BERMAN: Yes. And you can try to trace it back with those currents if it does turn out to be. But it's hard. I mean, it's been a lot of time.

GREEN: Right. It's every day. If you think about mathematically and I'm not an oceanographer, if you think mathematically every day that component has been affected. Every storm changes the trajectory in the water. So, I think it is a general -- I think they can get a general sense of whether it could have come from somewhere. They're not going to be able to trace back a year or 16 months and find it in the water.

BERMAN: It may never lead to the black boxes.

[04:15:00] GREEN: That's right. BERMAN: But this piece of debris does tell its own story. With Air France, they were able to look at smaller pieces on that and find some things out.

GREEN: In any case, it can rule out a number of things. If there was an explosion, damage on components might be seen. If there is no damage consistent with an explosion, that might tell you a little bit about that. It is really too soon to tell what information they will arrive from there. It is too soon to tell the families that this is in fact a 777 part from Malaysian Airlines 370.

BERMAN: But they should be able to find that out quickly, yes?

GREEN: I think there's going to be two different things happening. One is we're going to know pretty much 100 percent.

BERMAN: Right.

GREEN: And then later, there's going to be an official confirmation.

BERMAN: Justin, thank you so much for being with us. I really appreciate you coming in.

GREEN: No problem.

BERMAN: We are covering the latest all morning on the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 and the piece of debris washing up on shore on the remote Reunion Island on the western Indian Ocean.

But, first, Donald Trump talks immigration on CNN, calling for a mass deportation. So, how does he plan to get it done?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: New this morning, Donald Trump revealing how a President Trump would reform immigration. The GOP frontrunner says he would deport all 11 million undocumented immigrants and then let what he calls the good ones back in.

I want to bring in CNN's chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash with her exclusive interview with Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, Donald Trump is, of course, leading in the polls for lots of reasons. But probably, the thing that propelled him early on was his stance against illegal immigration, the fact that he talked on the issue at a time what dozen plus other Republican candidates really been wanted to talk about it as much as they have in past election year.

So, the question has been for Donald Trump what exactly are his plans beyond building a wall with Mexico and so forth. So, I started by asking on that issue the question about the 11 million or maybe more undocumented immigrants in this country. What he would do it about it. Listen to part of that. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to get the bad ones

out. Not only the ones in the prisons, and -- by the way, and they're never coming back. Not only the ones in the prisons, but the ones that are going around like in San Francisco and shooting Kate and shooting Jamiel, and shooting people that should not -- you know, that should be with us.

[04:20:00] OK. Then we have a law, right? You are supposed to come in legally. I would put people out and I would have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so they can be legal.

BASH: OK, hold on. Let me just -- hold on that point right there. When you say get people out, are you talking about a mass deportation?

TRUMP: We don't know who these people are.

BASH: But how do you find them?

TRUMP: We have to find them.

BASH: How do you do that? You are a business guy.

TRUMP: Excuse me. We've got to find them.

BASH: But how?

TRUMP: Politicians aren't going to find them because they have no clue. We will find them. We will get them out.

BASH: When you say get them out, just the process of that. There are a lot of smart people who have been focused on this for a long time and say it's just not feasible.

TRUMP: It's feasible if you know how to manage. Politicians don't know how to manage.

BASH: So, you see, John, not an entirely fully formed position on immigration specifically on what to do with the undocumented people in this country so far. And, you know, when it comes to the whole idea of DREAMers, the young people who came through this country through no fault of their own, it was interesting to hear Donald Trump say out loud, almost think out loud about what his position could be.

Also it will be interesting to see how that plays out when he is standing next to nine other candidates, competitors for the Republican nomination during the debate next week -- John.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: One week away. Dana Bash, thanks so much.

All right. Our breaking news this morning, a piece of debris found on an island in the Indian Ocean. Investigators are scouring it right now. Could it be from missing Malaysia Airline Flight 370? We have a reporter on the scene. We are breaking it down all morning.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:25:15] BERMAN: The breaking news this morning, a major development in the search for missing Malaysia Airline MH370. A piece of debris recovered on an island in the western Indian Ocean thousands of miles from the search zone. Early indications are it appears from a Boeing 777.

CNN's Tom Foreman has more on the piece of debris and how officials can figure out if it is in fact from the missing Malaysian jet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This piece of debris is about seven feet long, maybe three or four feet wide. And we're now told it is consistent with what you would find on a 777 made by Boeing.

So, let's bring up a model of the missing plane and talk about where you would find it on the plane. Our aviation analysts say it would likely be on the back side of the left wing right in here, a controlling flaperon as they call it. So, it meets the first part of the test for a match. It is the right type of piece to find.

It is also the right color and it's in the right condition. It has barnacles all over it. That's consistent with something that's been on the water for 500 days roughly. Now, you have to check out the identifiers, the serial numbers on this piece.

Almost every part of a big aircraft like this has serial numbers on it, like this seat cushion from a different plane. If they find the serial number on this other part, this thing they've just found and it matches the Malaysia Air flight, then that's the deal. They will know they absolutely have evidence of what happened to that plane.

It doesn't answer the question how did it wind up where it is. Remember, all of the search areas for this plane were over near the coast of Australia over here. How did this get all the way over there some 2,300 miles or more away. That's where they have to look at the currents and see if, in fact, ocean currents here were strong enough to push it over there to Reunion Island and give us maybe the first physical piece of what happened to the missing plane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right. Our thanks to Tom Foreman for that.

Our breaking news this morning: a piece of debris found on Reunion Island, some 2,300 miles away from where they have been searching for MH370. Is this the breakthrough that everyone has been waiting for? We have a reporter live on Reunion Island with new information, coming up right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)