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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Mystery of MH370; Zimbabwe Wants Extradition of Dentist; University of Cincinnati Officer Charged with Murder. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 31, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BERMAN: LEGAL VIEW starts right now.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Randi Kaye, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Two days after a piece of an airplane wing turned up on a beach in the southern Indian Ocean, the question isn't so much where it's from, but what it says about the biggest mystery in the history of commercial aviation. Experts are virtually certain that this barnacle infested hunk of medal is from a Boeing 777. And the only 777 that's ever crashed at sea is Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, missing since March of last year.

Now, any time now, the part will be flown to a lab in France where engineers may be able to tell how it separated from the rest of the plane and where in midair or on contact with the water. This as new video of the part being crated up at the Reunion Island Airport.

A U.S. intelligent report done months ago came to the preliminary conclusion that whatever happened to MH370 began with deliberate actions in the cockpit. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is outside the French lab that expects to have some pretty important answers as soon as next week.

Fred, hello to you.

So is there still any reasonable doubt that this is from MH370?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, certainly the investigators here want to be absolutely certain. I mean there have been some officials on the Malaysian side and also some sources here in France who say that they have virtually no doubt that this is indeed a part of a 777 and they conclude most probably a part of MH370. But certainly if you ask the scientists here at the lab down in Toulouse, they will tell you, they want forensic proof that that is indeed the case. And that is going to have to wait a few more days.

As you said, that piece of debris is now being packed up, will be on a flight overnight from La Reunion Island there, in the middle of the Indian Ocean here, to Paris, and then will come down here to Toulouse probably Sunday morning and the actual forensic work on that debris will begin on Monday the authorities here tell us.

And as you said, there are several things that they want to do with it. They're going to have analysis, first of all, of any sort of numbers that are printed on that piece of debris, but also, of course, of the paint, of the medal itself, to find out these key things, how long was it in the water, how did it possibly separate from the rest of the aircraft. Was it in midair? Was it upon impact?

And it's interesting, there's one source that we at CNN spoke to, and that source said, "the preliminary report" - and I'm quoting, "a preliminary report will sweep aside some scenarios on how things happened, but it won't give the exact sequence of events."

And, of course, that is something that many people are hoping for, that maybe at some point they'll find out what exactly happened to MH370. One of the key things that these scientists here are going to try and do, they're going to try and find traces, how long that part was in the water because that might give traces as to where the rest of the plane might actually be. Randi, at this point in time, of course, no one knows that.

KAYE: And, Fred, have you gotten any word about other debris that might be headed to that same lab?

PLEITGEN: Yes, that's a very good question because we know that aside from that piece of what many believe is the wing or the flaperon, as it's called technically, that a piece of a suitcase was apparently found as well, in very bad condition, found on Thursday. That is actually also being transferred over here to France. We're also expecting that to arrive on that overnight flight. That's also going to be looked at by experts, but not here. This is an aeronautical institute. It's part of the French military. That other piece, that suitcase, is going to be brought to a lab just outside of Paris. And there, again, it's unclear when results are going to be coming forward. It's also unclear whether or not there's going to be a preliminary report that could give some answers fairly quickly, Randi.

KAYE: All right, Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much for the update from there.

Time now to bring in my own panel of experts, starting with CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest, who's here in New York. From Denver, we're joined by CNN safety analyst and former FAA crash investigator David Soucie. And via Skype from Long Island, Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

All right, so, Richard, let me start with you. What do you expect to learn from this lab in Toulouse once they get that piece of the airplane?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: The first and crucial fact will be the confirmation that it is MH370. We may all be pretty much certain, but until these people say, yes, absolutely, we can prove it, then it is not - it is not can be - there's no total certainty. So that's the first crucial piece of information.

Thereafter, anything, Randi, anything at all that they can say about how this piece came off the aircraft, where it came off the aircraft, was it in flight or was it in the water? What sort of damage has it sustained? The damage is consistent with what sort of attack upon the aircraft? Those are the sort of pieces of information.

[12:05:17] But I warn you, they will probably be very scant. Fred already alluded to that. It's not going to be such as we found this and it therefore tells us that. I just don't see that as being the ultimate goal here. It's going to be a very small piece in an extremely large jigsaw.

KAYE: Yes. And, David, I'm sure you have worked through the different scenarios. I mean under what circumstances do you think that this flap might have come off that wing and why?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, what I'd be looking for first - and, first of all, I'm really glad that it's going to that DG (ph) laboratory in Toulouse. I've been to that laboratory when we did the certification on the Airbus 380 and they are definitely the right people to be doing this analysis. So forensic analysis they're looking for. What it could tell us is whether or not this came off as a result of hitting the water first or if it came off in midair. If it came off in midair, it could tell us a couple of things. If indeed the analysis that we've seen from both the independent group and from Australia saying that the airplane did an incredibly steep rate of climb - or rate of descent, it could have gone transsonic, causing flutter on the trailing edge of this wing and on the trailing edge of this device and it looks like it happened because the trailing edge is pretty rough. So those are the things that we'd be looking at first.

KAYE: Right, the back end is all cut up there and the front end is pretty smooth.

SOUCIE: Right.

KAYE: Larry, let me ask you, I mean, if there had been an explosion, would residue still exist on that wing flap at this point?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, JOHN JAY COLLEGE: I seriously doubt you would find explosive residue. But you might find evidence on the surface of that structure that would indicate an explosion took place. Look, it's looking more and more like a human being was responsible for this downed aircraft and that makes this a criminal investigation. And anything that washes ashore is physical and biological evidence and it's got to be treated that way. The handling of this material has to be done the right way. The analysis has to be done the right way. The goal - ultimate goal is not the flaperon. The ultimate goal is to find the plane. And through that flaperon, there may be enough information, especially based on the growth of the barnacles, to tell us approximately where and when that plane hit the water.

KAYE: And, Richard, even if this was a deliberate act in the cockpit, as U.S. intelligence seems to be saying, you're not convinced that this deliberate act was actually done and meant to do harm.

QUEST: Oh, absolutely not. No, I'm far from convinced from that. Have been from day one. And the U.S. - the U.S. assessment is pretty much based on - unless they've got something that we haven't already heard about. But if you just go on what we know so far, then one has to keep an open mind because although the circumstantial facts do prove that somebody did fly the plane in that direction - and I don't think you find anybody disagreeing with you on that point, the nature of the route it took means somebody physically did it. The question of the intent is far from proven.

KAYE: Yes, we definitely need some explanations on all those turns that that airplane kept making.

All right, many thanks, Richard Quest, David Soucie, and Larry Kobilinsky.

And we want to hear from you today. Tweet out your questions about the MH370 plane crash mystery. You can use #mh370qs.

This news just in, breaking news in the search for those two missing Florida boys. The Coast Guard says the search for the 14-year-olds in the Atlantic is still an open and active search, but just for today. The search will be suspended at sunset this evening until any new information comes to light. Austin Stephanos and Perry Cohen have now been missing for a full week. The only sign of them was their capsized boat.

Up next, the international uproar over Cecil growing louder. Zimbabwe now wants the U.S. to extradite the American dentist who killed their prize lion. So will the U.S. government cooperate?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:12:41] KAYE: Officials in Zimbabwe are calling for the extradition of the Minnesota dentist who shot and killed Cecil, the protected lion. The beloved 13-year-old cat was a major tourist draw in a protected national park. And U.S. officials now want to find Walter Palmer, too, but no one seems to know where he is right now. This morning, Zimbabwe's environmental minister announced that the African country has started the extradition proceedings against Palmer and hopes the U.S. will cooperate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPPAH MUCHINGURI, ZIMBABWEAN ENVIRONMENT MINISTER: Unfortunately, it was too late the apprehend the foreign poacher as he had already absconded to her country of origin. We are therefore appealing to the responsible authorities for his extradition to Zimbabwe so that he be made accountable for his illegal actions. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And let's go live now to Johannesburg and bring in CNN's David McKenzie, who is following this story very closely.

David, do we know exactly what Zimbabwe is saying about how Palmer broke the law. I mean what did - what did they say that he did that was illegal?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, what they're saying is effectively he poached this animal, meaning they lured it out of the national park and killed it knowing that it, in fact, was a protected animal from a protected place. That's the allegation at least. They say that he, quote, "did a well-orchestrated program to get this lion."

Now the dentist himself, the hunter, Walt Palmer, is saying - and it's really the only thing we've heard from him, this statement, because he has gone to ground - that, you know, he thought this was all legal and he's basically passing the buck over to his local guides who he would have paid, paid top dollar in fact, more than $50,000, to kill this animal. So they have said they will start - or have started extradition proceedings, getting him from the U.S. to Zimbabwe to face justice. It might be a tall order for that to succeed, but they're certainly trying their best.

Randi.

KAYE: All right, David McKenzie, thank you very much.

Let's talk about Palmer's legal problems with our experts, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson.

So, Paul, what do you think, hearing what David had to say and you've looked at all the evidence that at least has been made public in this case. Did this dentist, did Palmer break any laws?

[12:15:07] PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it will be a hard case to make. I mean in order to come up with a case against him, you have to prove that he essentially bribed somebody to lure the lion off of a national park and he knew that all of this was going on. I think it's a hard case to prove in the United States. In Zimbabwe, maybe not, which is point number two, will he ever be extradited to Zimbabwe? I would be stunned if he were.

Now, we have an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe, but Robert Mugabe, the head of Zimbabwe, is considered to be one of the biggest tyrants in Africa. Their criminal justice system has been criticized for human rights violations. Does somebody seriously think we're going to extradite an American citizen to Zimbabwe for trial?

Remember what happened with Amanda Knox? What did people say? How many trials did she get in Italy and everybody said, nobody would send her back to Italy.

KAYE: Right. CALLAN: We're going to send this guy back because a magnificent - and, by the way, this is a magnificent animal that - and it's a horror what happened, but I just think the politics of it will trump the law and he doesn't get sent back.

KAYE: So, Joey, what do you think will determine whether or not he gets sent back?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: I have to say, I do agree that the politics will probably trump law. And here's why. We do have a treaty. It went into effect July 25th of '97. And that's a predicate, Randi, for sending anywhere anyone. If you want, and you're in a foreign country, someone to be extradited to your country, there needs to be a treaty. Do we have one? Absolutely. Does it provide for his extradition? That's a tougher question. And here's why it's a tougher question. What you did in that foreign country has to be illegal there and it has to be illegal here. And so to Paul's point regarding the bribery, was it a bribe that he paid, the dentist, $50,000 to the officials there, right, in order to get him to hunt the animal -

KAYE: Right.

JACKSON: Or was that part and parcel to what you do if you're going to go gaming and hunting there?

KAYE: Right, he would just say, I paid because this is what I paid for it.

CALLAN: Big game hunting, right.

KAYE: I was paying for them to do all the research.

JACKSON: Right.

KAYE: Make sure that this didn't happen.

JACKSON: And that, it could be a very persuasive argument, Randi, because if you look at what the economy is based on, and there's about $43 million, of course, in revenue that they generated from this, you could say, listen, I genuinely wasn't bribing anyone. I thought this was the fee that would be associated with that. And so at that hearing for the extradition, I think that's point number one, I didn't bribe anyone, I paid the fee and I reasonably relied upon your professional hunters to tell me what to do. I'm in a foreign land.

KAYE: So, meanwhile, this guy is in hiding. He released that one statement to his patients and all of that and saying that he certainly didn't think he did anything wrong. But if this was your client, Paul, what would you advise him to do? I mean should he come forward? Should he - should he try and make a deal?

CALLAN: Well, a lawyer can't in good faith of course advise somebody to stay in hiding if there's a warrant or something out for his arrest. But right now there is no warrant out for his arrest.

KAYE: But it doesn't seem to be helping him - his case. CALLAN: You know, he's got a hard case to make because in truth when

he gets in front of the cameras, you know, he's kind of in the Bill Cosby situation where he might win on a technical defense here, they're not going to extradite him to Zimbabwe, but he killed this magnificent lion. And, by the way, I don't know if you've seen the other pictures of the other huge, beautiful animals that he's killed.

KAYE: Yes.

CALLAN: I - you know, I kind of think laying low is probably the best philosophy for him and I'd tell him to do that, stay out of the public eye and hope the thing passes.

KAYE: Joey, final word, real quick.

JACKSON: Yes, but if the State Department, certainly, Randi, provides for this extradition or at least a hearing, obviously he has to show up and he has to participate in whatever those proceedings are.

KAYE: Sure. But until then you agree, lay low?

JACKSON: But - yes, absolutely. The big issues - I mean it's unfortunate and there are many more ramifications to this killing. Apparently now there are so many other lions that are going to be endangered, you know, for reasons associated with what animals do -

KAYE: Right, his cubs.

CALLAN: His cubs.

JACKSON: When the hierarchy is now gone. And Cecil, of course, was the ruler. And so with him gone, so many others are in danger. Just a sad story overall.

KAYE: It is sad. Absolutely. All right, thanks, guys. Paul, Joey, good to see you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Randi, very much.

KAYE: Up next, a new body cam video surfaces in the case of the campus cop who killed an unarmed man in Cincinnati, as we learn more about the officer's past.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:22:22] KAYE: We are piecing together new details about the white campus cop who gunned down an unarmed black man in Cincinnati. We've learned Ray Tensing entered a prestigious police academy two years ago and then quit after day one. Tensing plead not guilty to murder charges yesterday. He's now free on bond. His next court date is a few weeks away.

Meanwhile, we are also getting new video from a third body camera showing the moments right after Sam DuBose was shot and killed. Jean Casarez is in Cincinnati.

Jean, tell us first about the new information on Tensing's past.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Randi.

Yes, it was the Ohio State Highway Patrol. He actually began the academy for one day and then he left. And he said, quote - when he left, he gave a reason, and it was personal responsibility. He said, "I am resigning due to the fact that I am unable to adapt to the training environment."

Well, he went on then to the University of Cincinnati to police department. He graduated that academy in 2010. He was one of five student honors at the time at graduation. Two years later, got a bachelor's degree from the same university in criminal justice.

But now that police department at the University of Cincinnati will have to have an independent investigation. And the question is, who is going to conduct it? Well, I spoke minutes ago to the police chief of Cincinnati's police department asking that very question. Listen to the answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JEFFREY BLACKWELL, CINCINNATI POLICE: I think he's going to bring in an outside investigator. Maybe an ex-DOJ official or somebody that has had work with collaborative agreements or consent decrease to kind of come in and give him a top to bottom review of his agency. And once he gets that final report, we'll know how to move forward in assisting him and his agency in the reform that is clearly necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now we also know that two other officers were at that scene because they had body cameras on them also. And that's part of the video that was captured. Phillip Kidd and David Lindenschmidt. And we do know that they have been put on paid administrative leave while this investigation goes forth, Randi.

KAYE: And, Jean, you also spoke with Tensing's attorney. What is he now saying about all this?

CASAREZ: Well, on a personal nature, he says that his client is in shock and just sort of distraught, in disbelief. He told me that he would ask - tell him procedurally what's going to be happening in all of this, and it appeared as though it didn't register.

Now, we do know that he's out on bond. We do know that he was on suicide watch also. The attorney, though, then on a professional nature, talks about that videotape and gives us a little more insight into where the defense is going to go, because one question I had is, why does he reach his arm inside the car? Well, according to the defense attorney Stewart Matthews, it's that he saw that the victim, Sam DuBose, had turned the car on with the keys in the ignition, had put the car in gear and this young officer decided he was going try the car - get the keys out of the ignition. And so that is allegedly how he started to get tangled up with the steering wheel and his hand in the car. But then we know that shot rang out also, Randi. [12:25:29] KAYE: And so the deciding factor here really about what

would happen - what went down are all of these angles in all three of these body cam videos. Are all of the officers using these cameras now?

CASAREZ: That's a very interesting question because I had that question today. All of the officers from the University of Cincinnati Police Department, they all have body cameras because they're a smaller force so they were able to afford them, use them. And apparently you've got to generate the video, you've got to keep the video, you've got to keep the different frames, so it's quite a detailed process.

Cincinnati, where I am right here, the officers do not have body cameras. They're trying to get them. But there's so many on the force, there's a lot of red tape for them to have body cameras also. But now, I think, they are going to try even harder because they believe that it is valuable one way or the other to see exactly what happens out at a scene.

KAYE: Absolutely. And it can work both ways, for either the officer or the victim in this case.

CASAREZ: Yes.

KAYE: Jean Casarez, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

CASAREZ: All right.

KAYE: Up next, possible wreckage from Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 raising hope of closure for some of the families of those on board. We'll hear from some of them straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:12] KAYE: We are following the next leg of the arduous journey of