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Pakistani Defense Minister on Taliban Future; Impact of Trophy Hunters on Conservation; Obama Unveils Plan to Reduce Greenhouse Gases. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 03, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:00]

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: as divisions emerge over the new Taliban leader, what does that mean for Afghan peace talks? I

ask Pakistan's defense minister.

Also ahead, as President Obama unveils a major climate change plan, the effects of trophy hunting of rare species, like Cecil the lion, on

conservation and the environment.

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PLEITGEN: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Fred Pleitgen, in for Christiane tonight.

These are troubled times for the Afghan Taliban as news of the death of long-time leader Mullah Omar sparks a leadership rift within the ranks.

Mullah Omar's successor was announced on Friday as being this man, his former deputy, Mullah Akhtar Mohammad Mansoor. But Mansoor faces strong

opposition among some members.

In a statement released today, one faction rejects Mansoor's appointment and demand new leadership talks. Divisions could not have come

at a more critical time for Afghanistan as the central government and the Taliban try to hold peace talks to hold 13 years of war. Those talks have

now been postponed.

Now amid the turmoil, the Taliban released the first public message, reportedly from Mansoor, in which he appealed for unity.

Afghanistan said Mullah Omar was living in Pakistan and died there two years ago. I put that claim to a top Pakistani official, Defense Minister

Khawaja Asif, when he joined me just a few moments ago from Islamabad.

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PLEITGEN: Minister Asif, welcome to the program.

KHAWAJA ASIF, PAKISTANI DEFENSE MINISTER: Thank you.

PLEITGEN: Sir, you have Mullah Omar, who apparently died two years ago, and the U.S. has been saying that he was most of the time in Quetta

but also went between Quetta and Karachi which, of course, are both towns inside Pakistan.

Did the Pakistani authorities really never know that he was there and what he was doing?

ASIF: There is no evidence of that, that Mullah Omar died in Quetta or in Karachi. His relatives, his -- you know, children and his relatives

have claimed that he died in Kanpur (ph) and he was buried in Kanpur (ph) two years ago.

So there is no evidence. There's just a claim which came out of Kabul and we have a counter claim to that. We deny that.

PLEITGEN: But you can see how the U.S. and its allies that are fighting in Afghanistan could be frustrated about these things because, on

the one hand, you have Mullah Omar and other parts of the Taliban leadership, who they believe are in places like Quetta.

Then you have the Taliban group around the Haqqani Network, which is in the North-West Frontier Province and you had bin Laden, who was in

Pakistan for a long period of time.

ASIF: I think we have come a long way from these controversies in last 3-4 years. We have committed almost 200,000 troops in our tribal

areas. We are fighting the elements you are mentioning, the Haqqani Network, the Taliban, the Afghan Taliban, the Pakistani Taliban and

whatever is left there of Al Qaeda, we are fighting.

And we firmly believe that peace in Afghanistan means peace in Pakistan. So there is a huge change. And I think we have to move on

instead of discussing what happened three years back --

(CROSSTALK)

PLEITGEN: What do you think that it'll mean for the reconciliation process, this -- the fact that it has now been announced that Mullah Omar's

probably dead for two years, what do you think will happen now?

ASIF: I think the reconciliation process, that if the death which people say or the Taliban sources say, that he died two years back, so the

change of leadership that means the new leadership already had endorsed the peace process. And there shouldn't be any setback to the peace process, in

my opinion, that this should continue.

And the peace process will have the support of not only the countries in this region; it has the full support of U.S. It has the support of the

Chinese. And this should be good for Afghanistan. And what is good for Afghanistan is good for Pakistan also.

PLEITGEN: At the same time --

(CROSSTALK)

PLEITGEN: -- at the same time, though, there are many Taliban groups inside Afghanistan, who are still fighting very heavily against the central

government. There have been rifts within the Taliban, in Afghanistan --

[14:05:00]

PLEITGEN: -- since the death of Mullah Omar was announced.

Do you think that the Taliban are going to splinter?

And is that going to make it more difficult to achieve some sort of peace?

Because it's going to be very difficult for the Afghan government to deal with a group that's splintering apart.

Who do they talk to?

ASIF: Well, if you look at the history of negotiations with different insurgency in last 50-60-70 years all over the world, for instance, in our

land, the diayai (ph), they were all -- there was always dissent within the ranks of the insurgents.

So the same thing is being repeated in Afghanistan. But that doesn't mean that the -- we should abandon our efforts.

The efforts will ultimately culminate in peace. We have that confidence. And with that confidence, we are pursuing these efforts.

There are difficulties. There is no -- Taliban is not a monolithic organization. There are a lot of splinter groups, as you said, that is

there. That's the reality. We can't deny that.

But once this process, you know, gathers space, I think more and more groups will join in the process and they will strengthen the efforts of

both Afghan government and Pakistani government for peace.

PLEITGEN: Mullah Omar was always a very cohesive figure to many of these groups.

Do you think that Mullah Mansoor, if, indeed, he remains the leader of the Taliban, can have that same effect?

Because there are already some who are saying they don't want any allegiance to him.

What do you make of Mullah Mansoor?

ASIF: The situation is not 100 percent settled as yet. It's a bit of a transition and I think, in coming days and weeks, it won't take long, but

it will settle down. It will settle down. I think there is a desire on all concerned, all parties, that reconciliation efforts must be successful.

So I think there are accent marks. But that doesn't mean that we should not pursue this process.

This process must go on and it will ultimately finish in success and bring in peace to this region, which is very important and the realization

on both sides of the borders in Afghanistan and Pakistan, ultimate realization after so many years, that we have to strive together, struggle

together to bring peace in this region.

PLEITGEN: Sir, it was in this past week that we learned not only about the death of one prominent Taliban leader but a second one,

Jalaluddin Haqqani. And many felt that the Haqqani Network, at least in the past couple of years, had been a lot more aggressive than the Quetta

Shura Taliban.

What do you think that Haqqani's death, if indeed it's true, means for the overall efforts to achieve peace in that region?

Because the Haqqani Network also controls a considerable amount of territory in Pakistan as well.

ASIF: No, I think we have -- as for their presence in Pakistan is concerned, I think that has minimized now, that's very, very minimal, what

they used to have, let's say, two years or three years back; obviously that was much more -- stronger than what they are today.

Last year's -- last one year's struggle against terrorism, by our armed forces, has eliminated this threat to a great extent.

And we are committed to finish this job. We'll not leave it unfinished. And that involves everybody, not -- Haqqanis are no exception.

PLEITGEN: Are you convinced that Jalaluddin Haqqani's really dead?

ASIF: He was an old man, you know, even biologically, I think, people die at this age. You know, you don't have to wait for an accident or wait

for some killer to come. You know, biologically also, he was an old man. And his next generation has taken over. So we have to deal with them, deal

with whatever options are available to us.

PLEITGEN: Mr. Asif, thank you for joining the program.

ASIF: You're welcome. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: And as Pakistan tries to manage the fiery Taliban insurgency, across the border in Iran, they are literally feeling the heat.

Temperatures there spiked to highs of -- get ready for this -- 73 degrees Celsius, baking the already scorching region, perhaps another sign of

climate change warping the planet and threatening its inhabitants.

Now within the hour, we do expect U.S. President Obama to unveil his plan to stop climate change. And after a break --

[14:10:00]

PLEITGEN: -- we focus on a threat that is definitely manmade: big game hunting; the killing of Cecil the lion struck a nerve the world over.

But some big game hunters remain defiant. I speak to a lifelong conservationist about the true nature of the hunt -- when we come back.

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PLEITGEN: Welcome back to the program.

The outrage over the killing of Cecil the lion in Zimbabwe is showing no signs of slowing down, adding fuel to that fire, Zimbabwe authorities

say they're looking for a second American over the illegal killing of another lion.

The man involved in the death of Cecil, dentist Walter Palmer, remains in hiding, his practice now a shrine to the beast he killed.

Cecil is not the first and most probably will not be the last wild animal to be hunted as a trophy. But his death is raising questions about

legal hunting of big game and whether it helps preserve populations in the long run or breeds disregard for their lives.

Joining me now to discuss all this is Luke Hunter, a lifelong big cat conservationist and the head of Panthera, a charity based in New York.

First of all, Luke, thank you very much for joining the program today.

LUKE HUNTER, PRESIDENT, PANTHERA: Thanks, Fred. It's a pleasure to be with you.

PLEITGEN: Now, Luke, we know that there's outrages on social media very quickly about things. And of course that picture of Walter Palmer and

Cecil the lion is certainly something that is disgusting.

But is the outrage justified? Is this really as bad as it's made out to be?

HUNTER: Well, I think in this case it raises a massive number of questions because, of course, this was apparently a legal hunt but which

had gone wrong and many laws were broken. So there is the issue of illegality about this in which that, if laws were broken, the of course the

perpetrators need to face the full force of the law, I think, in answering to that.

And the other issue, I think, that's really struck a chord -- and I agree with this -- is just the way Cecil was killed, you know, with a bow

and arrow and it took 40 hours, you know, when he was clearly in pain, to find him and then dispatch him with a rifle shot.

So I think for those reasons, these are very legitimate reasons why the world has really reacted to this case.

PLEITGEN: How often do things like that happen?

How often is it that people veer off, hunt animals where they're not allowed to hunt them, especially in regions like that?

I'm sure it's very difficult to remain in control over these wildlife reserves.

And how long does -- how often does something like this happen?

HUNTER: It is really difficult to know, actually, Fred, and that's part of the problem with how legal trophy hunting can be managed and

regulated because, in principle, Zimbabwe's an example of a country that uses legal trophy hunting as one of the mechanisms to generate revenue that

it puts back into conservation.

Now of course the issue with that is just how well it's regulated and how robustly science informs that process --

(CROSSTALK)

PLEITGEN: -- the concept of putting money from hunting into conservation, how well does that actually work?

HUNTER: That's also debatable, Fred. It's certainly one of the tools that African governments are using to be able to generate revenue and I

think that's --

(CROSSTALK)

PLEITGEN: Luke, I'm very sorry; I'm going to have to interrupt for one second, because we're going to go to our sister network, CNN U.S., to

hear --

[14:15:00]

PLEITGEN: -- U.S. President Barack Obama unveiling a major climate change plan in Washington. Let's listen in.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- fighting this issue and sometimes, you know, at great odds with others but are willing to take

on what is going to be one of the key challenges of our lifetimes and future generations.

I want to thank our surgeon general, you know, who's just been doing outstanding work and is helping to make the connection between this

critical issue and the health of our families.

You know, over the past 6.5 years, we've taken on some of the toughest challenges of our time, from rebuilding our economy after a devastating

recession to ending our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and bringing almost all of our troops home, to strengthening our security through tough and

principled diplomacy.

But I'm convinced that no challenge poses a greater threat to our future and future generations than a changing climate. And that's what

brings us here today.

Now, not everyone here is a scientist.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: But some of you are among the best scientists in the world. And what you and your colleagues have been showing us for years now is that

human activities are changing the climate in dangerous ways.

Levels of carbon dioxide, which heats up our atmosphere, are higher than they have been in 800,000 years; 2014 was the planet's warmest year on

record. And we've been setting a lot of records in terms of warmest years over the last decade.

One year doesn't make a trend but 14 of the 15 warmest years on record have fallen within the first 15 years of this century.

Climate change is no longer just about the future that we're predicting for our children or our grandchildren. It's about the reality

that we're living with every day, right now.

The Pentagon says the climate change poses immediate risks to our national security. While we can't say any single weather event is entirely

caused by climate change, we've seen stronger storms, deeper droughts, longer wildfire seasons.

Charleston and Miami now flood at high tide. Shrinking ice caps forced National Geographic to make the biggest change in its atlas since

the Soviet Union broke apart.

Over the past three decades, nationwide asthma rates have more than doubled and climate change puts those Americans at greater risk of landing

in the hospital.

As one of America's governors has said, we're the first generation to feel the impact of climate change and the last generation that can do

something about it.

And that's why I committed the United States to leading the world on this challenge because I believe there is such a thing as being too late.

Most of the issues that I deal with -- and I deal with some tough issues that cross my desk. By definition, I don't deal with issues if they

are easy to solve because somebody else has already solved them.

And some of them are grim. Some of them are heartbreaking. Some of them are hard. Some of them are frustrating. But most of the time, the

issues we deal with are ones that are temporally bound and we can anticipate things getting better if we just kind of plug away at it, even

incrementally.

But this is one of those rare issues, because of its magnitude, because of its scope that, if we don't get it right, we may not be able to

reverse. And we may not be able to adapt sufficiently. There is such a thing as being too late when it comes to climate change.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Now that shouldn't make us hopeless. It's not as if there's nothing we can do about it. We can take action. Over the past several

years, America has been working to use less dirty energy, more clean energy, waste less energy throughout our economy.

[14:20:00]

OBAMA: We set new fuel economy standards that mean our cars will go twice as far on a gallon of gas by the middle of the next decade.

Combined with lower gas prices, these standards are on pace to save drivers an average of $700 at the pump this year.

We doubled down on our investment in renewable energy. We're generating three times as much wind power, 20 times as much solar power as

we did in 2008. These steps are making a difference.

Over the past decade, even as our economy has continued to grow, the United States has cut our total carbon pollution more than any other nation

on Earth. That's the good news.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: But I am here to say that if we want to protect our economy and our security and our children's health, we're going to have to do more.

The science tells us we have to do more. This has been our focus these past six years. And it's particularly going to be our focus this month.

In Nevada, later in August, I'll talk about the extraordinary progress we've made in generating clean energy and the jobs that come with it and

how we can boost that even further.

I'll also be the first American president to visit the Alaskan Arctic, where our fellow Americans have already seen their communities devastated

by melting ice and rising oceans, the impact on marine life.

We're going to talk about what the world needs to do together to prevent the worst impacts of climate change before it's too late. And

today we're here to announce America's Clean Power Plan, a plan two years in the making, in the single most important step America has ever taken in

the fight against global climate change.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Right now our power plants are the source if about a third of America's carbon pollution. That's more pollution than our cars, our

airplanes and our homes generate combined. That pollution contributes to climate change, which degrades the air our kids breathe.

But there have never been federal limits on the amount of carbon that power plants can dump into the air. Think about that.

We limit the amount of toxic chemicals like mercury and sulfur and arsenic in our air or our water and we're better off for it.

But existing power plants can still dump unlimited amounts of harmful carbon pollution into the air.

For the sake of our kids and the health and safety of all Americans, that has to change. For the sake of the planet, that has to change.

So two years ago I directed Gina and the Environmental Protection Agency to take on this challenge. And today, after working with states and

cities and power companies, the EPA is setting the first-ever nationwide standards to end the limitless dumping of carbon pollution from power

plants.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Here's how it works. Over the next few years, each state will have the chance to put together its own plan for reducing emissions,

because every state has a different energy mix. Some generate more of their power from renewables, some from natural gas, from nuclear or coal.

And this plan reflects the fact that not everybody is starting in the same place. So we're giving states the time and the flexibility they need

to cut pollution in a way that works for them. And we'll reward the states that take action sooner instead of later, because time is not on our side

here.

As states work to meet their targets, they can build on the progress that our communities and businesses are already making. A lot of power

companies have already begun modernizing their plants, reducing their emissions and, by the way, creating new jobs in the process.

Nearly a dozen states have already set up their own market-based programs to reduce carbon pollution. About half of our states have set

energy efficiency targets. More than 35 have set renewable energy targets.

[14:25:00]

OBAMA: Over 1,000 mayors have signed an agreement to cut carbon pollution in their cities. And last week, 13 of our biggest companies,

including UPS and Walmart and GM, made bold, new commitments to cut their emissions and deploy more clean energy.

So the idea of setting standards and cutting carbon pollution is not new. It's not radical. What is new is that, starting today, Washington is

starting to catch up with the vision of the rest of the country. And by setting these standards, we can actually speed up our transition to a

cleaner, safer future.

With this clean power plan, by 2030, carbon pollution from our power plants will be 32 percent lower than it was a decade ago. And the nerdier

way to say that is that it will be keeping 870 million tons of carbon dioxide pollution out of our atmosphere.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: The simpler layman's way of saying that is it's like cutting every ounce of emission due to electricity from 108 million American homes

or it's the equivalent taking of 166 million cars off the road.

By 2030, we will reduce premature deaths from power plant emissions by nearly 90 percent. And thanks to this plan there will be 90,000 fewer

asthma attacks among our children each year.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: And by combining this with greater investment in our booming clean energy sector and smarter investments in energy efficiency, and by

working with the world to achieve a climate agreement by the end of this year, we can do more to slow and maybe even eventually stop the carbon

pollution that's doing so much harm to our climate.

So this is the right thing to do. I want to thank, again, Gina and her team for doing it the right way. Over the longest engagement process

in EPA history, they fielded more than 4 million public comments. They worked with states. They worked with power companies and environmental

groups and faith groups and people across our country to make sure that what we were doing was realistic and achievable but still ambitious.

And some of those people are with us here today.

So, Tonya (ph) Brown, Tonya (ph), wave, go ahead.

There's Tonya (ph). Tonya (ph) Brown has joined up with moms across America to spread the word about the dangers climate change pose to the

health of our children, including Tonya (ph)'s daughter, Semay (ph).

There is Semay (ph) right there.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: Dr. Sumita Khatri has spent her career researching the health impacts of pollution at the Cleveland Clinic and helping families whose

lives are impacted every single day.

Doctor, thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Sister Joan Marie Steadman has helped rally Catholic women across America to take on climate.

Sister, thank you so much for you leadership.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: And she's got a pretty important guy on her side, as Pope Francis made clear in his encyclical this summer.

Taking a stand against climate change is a moral obligation and Sister Steadman is living up to that obligation every single day.

Now, let's be clear. There will be critics of what we are trying to do. There will be cynics that say it cannot be done. Long before the

details of this clean power plan were even decided, the special interests and their allies in Congress were already mobilizing to oppose it with

everything they've got.

They will claim that this plan will cost you money, even though this plan, the analysis shows, will ultimately save the average American nearly

$85 a year on their energy bills.

They will claim we need to slash our investments in clean energy. It's a waste of money, even though they are happy to spend billions of

dollars a year in subsidizing oil companies.

They will claim this plan will kill jobs, even though our transition to a cleaner energy economy has the solar industry -- to just name one

example -- creating jobs 10 times faster than the rest of the economy.

They will claim this plan is a war on coal to scare up votes, even as they ignore my plan to actually invest in revitalizing coal country and

supporting health care and retirement for coal miners and their families and retraining those workers for better paying jobs.

(END OF AMANPOUR HALF HOUR: FULL OBAMA REMARKS AVAILABLE ON CNN DOMESTIC)

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