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Trump Skips First Major GOP Candidate Event; Sources: Biden Has Not Ruled Out White House Run; Investigators About To Examine Plane Debris. Aired 7-8:00p ET

Aired August 3, 2015 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:12] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, where is Donald Trump? Nearly all of the republican candidates gathering at this moment on stage together for the first time. Noticeably absent, Mr. Trump. Is it payback?

And the search for MH370 expanding tonight. Investigators about to analyze the debris that is almost certainly from the doomed plane.

Plus, as outrage grows over the killing of Cecil the Lion, another American is accused of illegal hunting in Zimbabwe. Are Americans now being targeted? Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, Trump is a no-show. At this moment, nearly all of the republican presidential candidates -- you are looking right now at live pictures -- they are gathering on stage in New Hampshire. It is the first time that we're seeing so many of them on one stage together. You see them all right there. One notable exception that you're going to see as this camera pans is the Republican Party's front-runner, Donald Trump, who chose to skip it even though he is now topping the polls in the granite state.

A new poll just released is showing Trump with a clear lead in New Hampshire, 24 percent of republican support. This is the first time any of the republican candidates has held a statistically significant lead in this important first in the nation primary state. And nationally, Trump solidifying his lead as well. A FOX poll also just released showing Trump with 26 percent support. His nearest rival, Jeb Bush at 15. And a new Monmouth University poll shows you probably get Trump now holds a two to one lead over Bush. These new polls will help determine which candidates make the cut for the first republican presidential debate. And that of course is Thursday. It is almost certain at this point that Trump will be center stage that night. But which of his rivals will he then face?

Athena Jones is at the GOP forum in Manchester, New Hampshire for us tonight. Athena, at the last-minute, three of the candidates that are running for president, Senator Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Rand Paul they all decided and announced that they are staying back in Washington for a Senate vote. They are going to be now participating via satellite. Also missing, Donald Trump. Why?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate. Well he has given several reasons. He said at one point that he was angry, his camp said he was angry about a critical editorial in the Union Leader newspaper. That's who is sponsoring the event. They published an editorial poking fun at Donald Trump after he questioned the heroism of Arizona Senator John McCain. That was just a couple of weeks ago. You know of course that John McCain was a P.O.W. in Vietnam for nearly six years. The Union Leader published that Tongue-in-Cheek editorial that said, you know, Trump knows more about heroism because of his, quote, "countless harrowing entanglements with legions of gorgeous blondes."

So, that joking editorial did not sit well with the Trump camp. But he also says he is not coming because he thinks there are too many candidates taking part in this forum for if they ever have any point. And he is not coming because he believes the newspaper, the Union Leader will not endorse him. I should mention to you Kate that the organizers here say this forum is about the voters. It is really targeted at the early voting states, not just here in New Hampshire, but also South Carolina, in Iowa. It is going to be airing on stations in those states and it's a chance for more candidates to be heard. And they will not appear on stage and other than in the opening shot and that ending shots. They will be appearing one by one to answer a Q and A for about five minutes. So, that's what is taking place here tonight. Trump is not coming. But from the looks of those recent polls it's hard to tell if it's going to hurt him. He's in the lead -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Nothing has hurt him so far just by what many people have said. Athena, it's going to be a very interesting night there in New Hampshire. Athena Jones is there for us. Thanks so much.

So, as Athena points out, Trump may not be on that stage tonight but he is most certainly on the other candidates' minds. Just look at those polls.

Sara Murray is OUTFRONT.


SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (Voice-over): For Donald Trump, it's another day on top. Today a Monmouth University poll puts Trump in the lead with 26 percent support among republican voters. A whopping 14 points ahead of his closest competitor, Jeb Bush. Yesterday it was an NBC Wall Street Journal poll putting Trump in first.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My poll numbers started to shoot up like a rocket ship, and they continue to go up.

MURRAY: On Thursday, Trump takes center stage once again. This time, at the first GOP debate in Cleveland. The bombastic former television star is downplaying expectations.

TRUMP: I am going to be Donald Trump. I think if I'm not Donald Trump, it's not going to look good. I'll do my best. I've never done it. Before.

MURRAY: And promising to play nice. TRUMP: I think I am a nice person. I really do. And I think

that's why my numbers always go up. As they get to know me better. I think that frankly I would like to discuss the issues. I am not looking to take anybody out or be nasty to anybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they attack you.

TRUMP: I've always counterpunched. And you have to counterpunch.

[19:05:20] MURRAY: Our CNN polling average has Trump on top of the GOP pack, and smack in the middle of the stage on the first debate. On either side, his closest rivals in the polls, Jeb Bush, and Scott Walker. Filling out the right and the left, we have Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, and Marco Rubio. But that leaves Kohn Kasich, Chris Christie, and Rick Perry on the bubble, waiting to see how FOX calculates their averages. And down playing anxiety about whether they will make the cut.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In terms of being on the stage in that big debate I'd like to be there. But you know, this debate comes six months before the selection of a single delegate.

MURRAY: And that could mean one of Trump's toughest critics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's get a pull up bar out there.

MURRAY: Definitely then make the stage.

RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I would expect to be on the stage but as a lot of people recognize this, it is not one- shot pony here.


MURRAY: Now, any polls that come out before tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, including that FOX News poll that shows Trump in the lead could be a factor in moving these numbers and determining who makes the debate stage. We'll be keeping an eye on that as well as how these candidates plan to take on Donald Trump -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Sara Murray, thank you so much.

OUTFRONT tonight, Donald Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski. Corey, great to see you. Thank you so much for coming in.


BOLDUAN: So, we heard -- Athena laid it out a little earlier as Sara was talking about it as well. We heard the excuses about why Mr. Trump is not at tonight's event. Does this really come down to the fact that he was not happy about an editorial in the newspaper there? LEWANDOWSKI: No, of course, that's not the case. You know, what

is really happening here is politicians love to talk. They want to get in front of the camera, they want to talk, they want to talk, they want to talk, don't want to get anything done. Mr. Trump is busy creating jobs today.

BOLDUAN: He likes to talk.

LEWANDOWSKI: He is preparing for the debate on Thursday, the polls clearly indicate that his message is resonating with the American public. Twenty six percent is double the polling numbers of any other candidate. And today WMUR has said, there is a clear frontrunner in the granite state, and that's Donald Trump. The numbers don't lie. He is in first place for a reason because people are tired of politicians who want to get on stage and talk and make promises that aren't fulfilled. It's time for someone who has a proven record of getting things done.

BOLDUAN: And Corey, you mean, the polls definitely speak for themselves, he is leading in all these national polls, he's leading in New Hampshire. It seems every time you are coming on, you are showing me another poll, and you are right. He is leading them. You are talking about preparations, you say he is preparing for the debate. Up until this point he has made it very clear that kind of in the Tongue-in-Cheek way saying, he is not really preparing other than just reading up on the news. If he is not preparing in public, how is he preparing in private?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, here's what he said. He said he has never debated before. And a number of these politicians debate every day, they stand up and they talk and they have rhetoric and they say things that they don't mean.

BOLDUAN: Why not take the opportunity tonight to practice.

LEWANDOWSKI: The format tonight is not conducive to actually getting your ideas across. You've got 16 or 15 people on the stage, you get five minutes to make an opening statement. And you sit down and you wait for 14 other people to talk. The debate is on Thursday, that's when Mr. Trump will participate and that's where he will share his ideas with America.

BOLDUAN: And Corey, I want you to listen here, I spoke with the moderator of tonight's GOP even earlier today. And here's what he has to say. Listen.


JACK HEATH, GOP FORUM MODERATOR: I really don't think Donald Trump is going to be a big part of the forum tonight. I think if candidates -- I'd be surprised if many bring buy him up at all. I intend to kind of have a Trump-less forum talking about issues that voters here in Iowa and South Carolina think are important and they want to hear answers to their questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: A Trump-less forum. That's what he was hoping for,

because he wasn't going to show up. But, remember, and this is important, this is being broadcast to South Carolina voters, Iowa voters, New Hampshire voters. Trump needs those voters.

LEWANDOWSKI: Let's talk about the polls in South Carolina that came out today. Greatest to the poll is Donald Trump is at 30.4 percent in the poll. His next closest rival is at 10 percent. We take nothing for granted. Mr. Trump has been to South Carolina many times, he's been to Iowa many times.

BOLDUAN: He doesn't think this is important?

LEWANDOWSKI: No, that's not the case at all. Mr. Trump was very clear that this is not proper format to have a presidential level discussion with all the candidates on stage getting five minutes, there is no interaction, you can't have any conversation, it is a five minute discussion. And then on your way, when we go to New Hampshire traditionally, Mr. Trump talks to hundreds of thousands of people in the particular audience. And that's what we look forward to doing next time we're back there.

BOLDUAN: If I don't see it before Thursday, what is the one thing I should be looking out from Mr. Trump come Thursday's debate?

LEWANDOWSKI: I think you will see him very presidential and sharing his ideas with how to make America great again.

BOLDUAN: Presidential, define that when it comes to Mr. Trump.

LEWANDOWSKI: Presidential, just exactly what I said, presidential.

BOLDUAN: All right. We will see. He seems to be redefining the presidential race so far. We'll see if he redefines presidential comes Thursday. Corey, thank you so much.


BOLDUAN: Joining me now, Bill Kristol, the editor of The Weekly Standard. Bill, it's great to see you. You heard it right there, from Corey Lewandowski. Corey saying it, this format is not conducive for a man like Donald Trump. It is not conducive for a presidential level debate. What do you think?

[19:10:24] BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": He is doing fine following his own instincts. So, I'd be the last person to say, he should be up there in New Hampshire. He probably thinks it's more likely for him to make a mistake. Or kind of come down to the level of the other candidates. He is beginning to act like a real front-runner, you know, shunning the other candidate. Only showing up for the really big occasions. But honestly, I said a week ago, I thought we would pick Trump, I thought he would only go to slide downhill. I'm a little premature in that judgment but I still think his plateau going out pretty soon. And at the end of the day, the republican primary voters are enjoying, sticking a finger in the eye at the media, the liberal establishment, the republican establishment, and saying we like Trump. But Donald Trump is not going to be the republican nominee.

BOLDUAN: But every time someone has set a growth feeling for him he blows right through it. Just take a look at the polls out tonight. The FOX News poll, the -- poll, he is at 26 percent.

KRISTOL: Now, look -- and I spent a long time earlier on -- I think this one I was ahead of the curve saying, take Trump seriously, take the issues he is raising seriously, including illegal immigration, which all the establishment candidates are shying away from. Take some of the other populist issues she's raising seriously. On the other hand, think of this Kate, in July, the end of July, early August, 2003, Howard Dean was leading the democrat field. In 2007, Rudy Giuliani was leading the republican field and Hillary Clinton was leading the democratic field.

At this time, in 2011 I think Rick Perry had just taken the lead on the republican side, he was just about to get in the race. So, in the last three cycles, except for incumbent presidents on the competitive side of things, the front-runner at this time was not the person who won the nomination. I really think, Trump has been expressive. I do not mean to take anything away from him. He has great talents but I don't think we are seeing the high water mark. Maybe this debate Thursday night will be the high water mark in the whole Trump.

BOLDUAN: Now, we will see. And the big question will be in the next couple of days, what are the candidates do about Donald Trump, ignore him or take him on? We'll discuss. Bill, it's great to see you. Thank you.

KRISTOL: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of course. OUTFRONT next, draft Joe Biden. The movement is growing tonight. Is the vice president going to be jumping into the race?

Plus, the search for MH370. It is growing, as investigators prepare to examine their best lead yet. Are we any closer to finding out what happened to that missing plane?

And also, we have some breaking news. An arrest just made in the fatal shooting of a Memphis police officer as we hear for the very first time what happened on the scene.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a traffic stop and he was armed. The subject bolted out. It was a traffic stop.



[19:16:01] BOLDUAN: Will he or won't he? Sources tell CNN Vice President Joe Biden has not ruled out another run for president. It's something that he is son, Beau, who passed away in May, reportedly wanted him very much to do. So what does that mean for Hillary Clinton, though?

Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.


JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm Joe Biden, I'm looking for a job.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Looking for a job. But the question for Joe Biden is, which one? He has long eyed the presidency. And he's still considering joining the 2016 race. The summertime speculation has suddenly hit full boil over whether he will challenge Hillary Clinton for the democratic nomination. One factor weighing heavy, his son, Beau Biden, urged his father to run before dying of brain cancer in May. And now, one of Beau Biden's close advisors is joining a grassroots movement called draft Biden. And the vice president is holding political meetings of his own with his old network of supporters to see if there is interest in backing a new campaign. Questions about Clinton's candidate see hangover the Biden boomlet. A recent Quinnipiac poll showed only 37 percent viewed Clinton as honest and trustworthy while 57 percent did not. For Biden, it was the reversed, 58 percent found him honest and trustworthy, 34 percent did not.

New Hampshire democrat Mary Carey Foley is all but begging Biden to run.

MARY CAREY FOLEY, LONGTIME FRIEND OF BIDEN FAMILY: Hillary does have a problem with trust in this country right now. And I do believe that when and if he decides to run, Joe will add a new dimension to this race.

ZELENY: Biden has run for president twice before. He has never ruled out a third time. If he did, the gaps for more than four decades in politics would surely follow him into the race. Like this famous expletive right before President Obama signed the healthcare law.


He told CNN's Gloria Borger last year, he would make his own decision.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Would you run if she runs?

BIDEN: Absolutely. That's not the reason not to run or to run. The question is, am I convinced I am best positioned of anyone else to lead the country?

ZELENY: But Clinton has a big head start. She is airing her first TV commercials tomorrow.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that when families are strong, America is strong. It's your time.


ZELENY: Now, Kate, the bottom-line is this -- several friends and advisors to the Vice President tell me that he is thinking about running. But anyone who believes he has already made up his mind is just wrong about that. They say he is going to think about it over the next month or so. He is spending this time with his family in Wilmington, Delaware and then he is going to make a decision. Now, as for the Clinton campaign, how they are reacting to all of this. They say that they never expected an easy path to the nomination. And now, Kate it looks like it might not be quite so easy whether or not the Vice President gets into the race -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: That's an excellent point, Jeff. Great to see you. Thanks so much.

ZELENY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT with us now, Michael Thornton, a long time Biden supporter and Van Jones, a CNN political commentator. Great to see you, both. So, Mike, you heard Jeff kind of laying out everything in his report. From your perspective, why does this race need Joe Biden?

MICHAEL THORNTON, LONGTIME BIDEN SUPPORTER: Because he just said, I think he is best qualified. For one thing, his last seven years of service as Vice President has been one of great distinction. Whether there was a crisis abroad in China or Ukraine or Iran. Joe Biden was the person that was inevitably sent out there to sort it out and did a very good job on that. Domestically, he has been one of the few people in Washington able to work on bipartisan basis. He has great respect in the Congress among Republicans as well as the Democrats. And finally, you look at his personal characteristics. He has great courage. He -- in these days when you worry about authenticity, there is no one that questions Joe Biden's authenticity. He certainly says what he believe and what he stands for. And finally, he is not a polarizing person. He is the type of person that can bring this country together I think to a degree. So, I think he would just make a great president.

BOLDUAN: So, Van, with all of that being said, you think that Joe Biden would be wasting his time if he did. That's a pretty strong statement for a sitting vice president. Why do you think that?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, just because he is a beloved figure. He is a respected figure. Nobody would argue that he is not. But there is simply no great hunger in the Democrat Party outside of a very small circle of people for Joe Biden in particular to do anything. He is loved. He is respected. He is liked. But nobody is sitting around saying, God, I just wish Joe Biden would get in this race. People are concerned about Hillary Clinton. But if Hillary Clinton implodes, John Kerry could jump in. Biden could jump in. Al Gore to jump in. Corey Booker could jump in. Any number of people could jump in and have just as much support in this party. I just think that it is a waste of his time for him to imagine -- he is too close to and too much like Hillary Clinton. The rising part of our party is economic populist. Therefore Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. He is no Bernie Sanders, he is no Elizabeth Warren. I just don't see the space for him in our party. He is a beloved figure but I think he actually hurts himself by trying to run.

[19:21:28] BOLDUAN: Now, Michael I want your kind of take on that. But also I want to ask you about all of the reporting is suggesting that Beau Biden is the one who really sparked this push to get Joe Biden to consider -- or to talk about another run. Do you think that Beau is likely the driving factor here and everything that you know? And also, most importantly, do you think it's enough to get his father to run?

THORNTON: I think it's unquestionably a factor. But it's certainly not the only factor. Joe Biden has been interested in becoming president of the United States for many, many years. And he has been talking about it in the last few years as a matter of fact. Well before Beau urged him to do so. As to whether he is wasting his time or not, I think that's for him to determine. He is going to consider this carefully. He knows a lot about the process. He's still going through a grieving process right now. This is not the easiest time for him in any respect. But I'm confident by the end of this month, or sometime in September he will be in a position to make a good decision.

BOLDUAN: Now, real quick Van, I mean you talk about the fact that everyone loves Joe Biden but they are not yearning for him to jump into the race. An important thing with these politicians with running is do folks trust them. Recent polls show that Americans, they not only like Joe Biden, they trust him, 58 percent in a recent Quinnipiac poll, that's to Clinton's 37 percent in trustworthy. Clinton continues to face a trust deficit with voters. Doesn't that leave a real opening that you say doesn't exist?

JONES: Listen, I think that if -- listen, this is not a Democratic Party that's only going to go based on trust and those factors. Obviously people have some concerns right now about Hillary Clinton. I think that Hillary Clinton is going to get stronger as she goes forward. But here's the reality. We have an actual Democratic Party that has an actual shape to it. What's rising in this party are two wings, the economic populist wing and the racial justice wing. Joe Biden has not appeal to either wing. So, you have to win a primary by appealing to somebody. That the Black Lives Matter folks, the dreamers, the people who want more racial inclusion, they like him, but they don't see him as a champion.

Certainly, the Elizabeth Warren wing doesn't see him as a champion. So, he just doesn't have a pathway. And instead, he is in the same lane as Hillary Clinton. If she blows up, other people can jump into that lane. Listen, I think he should just stay where he is as a respected beloved Vice President and let him go out that way. For him to jump into this race, he is just going to prove to a lot of people that he never had the chops to become president. Why should he do that to himself when right now he can only go down in his esteem?

BOLDUAN: Van Jones, Mike Thornton, thanks so much. THORNTON: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT for us next the search for MH370 debris expanding once again tonight as investigators are set to analyze what very well could be a part of the missing plane's wing.

Plus, another American is now accused of illegally hunting a prized animal in Zimbabwe. My guest tonight, the Texas hunter who paid $350,000 to kill an endangered black rhino. Was it worth it? He is here to discuss.


[19:28:48] BOLDUAN: The search is expanding now for more possible MH370 debris after a wing flap that might to be from the missing Malaysia jet washed up on a remote island. And authorities remain optimistic tonight that they may find more debris after confirming the wreckage is from a Boeing 777, the same model that vanished really without a trace 17 months ago. And tonight crash investigators are about to get their first chance to examine the debris.

Rene Marsh is OUTFRONT.


RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Reunion Island shoreline is being searched inch by inch. Every object that washes ashore scrutinized by investigators looking for parts of the missing Malaysia airliner. The hunt for even more aircraft debris has now expanded to nearby Seychelles and Mauritius Island. CNN onboard a boat with volunteers are looking for anything floating at sea that could belong to plane. So far nothing as promising as this find which officials now confirm is a piece of a Boeing 777's wing.

LIOW TIONG LAI, MALAYSIAN TRANSPORT MINISTER: It is a Boeing 777 part, but whether it is a MH370 part yet to be verified. I want to emphasize it is yet to be verified.

MARSH: Wednesday, investigators will begin running tests to verify if it's part of the missing plane. The French lab where the flaperon will be examined has sophisticated equipment and experts to quickly identify which plane it belongs to. The paint is one of the many things they will examine. Steve Wang's mother was on board MH370. He tells CNN's Will Ripley he still listens to her last voice mail. Even if this is confirmed to be part of missing plane, Wang says it won't bring closure.

STEVE WANG, SON OF MH370 PASSENGER: I think the only closure will come at the time when they find the plane and find everybody and find the truth.

MARSH: Malaysian officials and French investigators met today in Paris ahead of Wednesday's test which could ultimately determine if this is the first piece of tangible evidence connected to aviation's biggest mystery. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: And, Kate, a source close to the investigation tells me that tomorrow, investigators, including the NTSB and Boeing will meet at the lab in Toulouse. They are expected to work with the Malaysian investigator in charge to develop a game plan for examining this Boeing 777 debris. And on Wednesday, that in-depth analysis is supposed to get underway.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Everyone will be watching, that's for sure. Renee, thank you very much.

OUTFRONT now, Richard Quest, and David Gallo, the director of special projects at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

Gentlemen, great to see you.

So, Richard, how quickly as Renee is laying out, they are going to meet and start analyzing. How quickly do you think it will take for them to determine if this is MH370?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, before we get to that about it let's talk about why it is taking so long --

BOLDUAN: Yes, please?

QUEST: -- to get to this part.

There's a prosecutor involved, because, of course, it was France, as we saw in Germanwings. There's a prosecutor involved. You have then got all the different countries involved. And you've got to make sure you protect and you decide exactly how you are going to start analyzing this piece of evidence.

BOLDUAN: This wasn't -- this system wasn't set up already.


BOLDUAN: Because France hadn't been involved to this point.

QUEST: But they know what they are doing in the ends of it.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

QUEST: They are going to take it slowly. They are going to take it slowly, with great care and make sure that everybody is on board at every step of the way. And if that means starting on Wednesday, then so be it, that's what they will do.

But they cannot afford to sort of hack away at this thing and open it up and see what's there. Everybody has object on board.

BOLDUAN: There is that, David. When this process begins, walk us through it. What are they going to do to analyze this debris? And what do you realistically think they are going to be able to learn from this piece? DAVID GALLO, CNN ANALYST: I think that, Kate, what they will

begin to do is look for serial numbers. But they may examine the skin first because they can learn a lot from the skin and especially with this piece, where the leading edge, the front of that piece is in fairly good shape. The trailing edge, the back of it looks like it's in tatters.

So, I'm sure they will examine that, examine every way it was attached to the aircraft. They'll try to make some assumptions about how it got separated from the aircraft. Then, they will look inside. They'll look at the barnacles for sure, the life living on it, see if it's that's consistent with being in the ocean for so long. So, they'll do all those kinds of forensic things. And, you know, Richard is absolutely right. Everything is going to be done by firmly established protocols. And statements will probably come out in a very rigid way.

And certain press releases. You won't see any more leaks coming out of the BEA. I can promise you.

BOLDUAN: Yes, they want to get it right rather than get it fast. I think everyone can understand that.

And, Richard, so what they're also going to use and you say it's fairly common that they do this -- to use a special microscope to look at the material, how it's stretched, how it's pulled apart, how it's torn, how it's ripped.

Do you think they will be able to confirm this is MH370 through this process?

QUEST: That's the big unknown.

If there is no single serial number, but there are parts numbers -- so we know it's from a 777 --


QUEST: -- the least satisfying outcome for the families is that they are told it's from a plane and we deduce it's from the one that your loved one was on. That may well be as far as we can get with this.

BOLDUAN: Wow, really?

QUEST: Yes, because --

BOLDUAN: That's not going to be enough for these families.

QUEST: Well, that's the reality of this situation. If there is no serial -- we are deducing. They are make assumptions at this point. And if there is no hard serial number on it, that will be the end result.

BOLDUAN: So, David, you also -- as Richard is laying out, it might be difficult the put it all together. But you also talk about how they are going to look at chemical residue on this flap. What can you get from chemical residue on this plane at this point? I mean, remember, it has been floating in the ocean for 500-plus days.

[19:35:04] GALLO: Well, as it does said, though, Kate, it will pick up the chemistry of the oceans, too. Some of the organisms living on there will have built their shells and bodies out of sea water. So, they will have a very particular kind of chemistry.

There may be residue left on there from the plane -- from either the fuel or from -- if there was an explosion perhaps, but I don't think it would have survived 500-some-odd days at sea. But, you know, you are absolutely right. In the case of Air France 447, we had a lot of pieces of the aircraft that were floating on the surface.

But the family really wanted to see the plane itself, the remains, the wreckage on the sea floor, and most importantly, the recovery of the black boxes and their loved ones.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and it sounds -- the more excitement there is, it does sound like they may still be far off from getting the answers they really truly want.

Richard, thank you so much. David, thank you.

Coming up for us, OUTFRONT next, as outrage grows over the death of Cecil the Lion, another American is accused of illegally hunting in Zimbabwe. My guest, a Texas man who paid $350,000 to kill an endangered black rhino. Why did he do it?

Plus, breaking news: the suspect in the shooting death of a white police officer has just been arrested. What was the motive? That story is next.


[19:40:19] BOLDUAN: Tonight, officials in Zimbabwe are identifying a second American accused of illegally killing a lion. The doctor, who is not being named by CNN, is from Pennsylvania and according to Zimbabwe's park authority killed the lion back in April. This accusations come of course after the killing the beloved lion named Cecil by Minneapolis Dentist Walter Palmer. As we speak tonight, government officials in Zimbabwe are trying to get him extradited to face charges for killing Cecil.

David McKenzie is OUTFRONT from South Africa for us tonight.

So, David, there are now two Americans accused of illegally hunting lions. Do you get the sense that Zimbabwe is targeting Americans in any way?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, I don't think so in the first case because it was after that worldwide outcry about the alleged illegal killing of Cecil that the Zimbabwe authorities actually started to comment on this one way or the other. In a way, they were following that outcry with their statements of trying to extradite Dr. Walt Palmer. In this case, perhaps. You know, they are naming an American

saying this happened way back in April of this year. They aren't exactly accusing that doctor of anything specific. But they do sort of list him as if he should be allegedly involved in a crime.

So, yes, you know, the U.S. and Zimbabwe are on some pretty tricky situation right now in terms of relations. So, they could be trying to score cheap points here. But it's too early to tell until they actually outline exactly what they say happened -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Excellent point, may be some politics at play as you well point out, though.

At the same time, big game hunting happens all the time in Africa. Why do you think these cases have touched such a nerve?

MCKENZIE: I think it's because Cecil was such a well-known lion in Zimbabwe. The fact that he was lured out of this park, and then killed in such a manner that they stalked him for 40 hours injured, and then shot him -- you know, all of these things came together to really touch a nerve with public opinion.

And I think people didn't realize that this kind of hunting necessarily went on. So, that's why it generated this interest. Where it goes on from here -- one thing to remember, poaching, the issue of illegally killing animals for trade, is on some level a far bigger issue for wildlife populations than professional or amateur hunting. But certainly, it's put a spotlight on this issue of trophy hunting. Some people are saying it must now be banned -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: A very bright spotlight at that.

David McKenzie, thank you.

And OUTFRONT tonight, Corey Knowlton, a big game hunter who traveled to Namibia earlier this year to hunt a black rhino, paying $350,000 for that trophy hunt.

Corey, thank you so much for joining us.

COREY KNOWLTON, BIG GAME HUNTER: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

I want your reaction to what David McKenzie and I were just talking about. What do you make of the fact that the Zimbabwe government is now pointing the finger at two Americans for illegal kills?

KNOWLTON: I think they are probably just trying to do the best due diligence they can. The spotlight is on them, and as they should. If it turns out it was a crime -- especially the first case, it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But I think the rule of law should prevail here and we should wait and see what actually happened. I think you are getting a lot of talk and a lot of different opinions, some from anti-hunting organizations, some from maybe more credible sources, but I don't know that the truth has yet to come out on this.

I'm really just being patient and waiting to hear more things before I just make a judgment call on it.

BOLDUAN: What more do you want to hear, Corey? What are the questions you have?

KNOWLTON: Man, there is lot of questions to it. It seems like everybody has gone straight to the hunter in this case. I feel like the professional hunter -- those who have hunted in Africa or travelled around the world and hunted, you have to understand the professional hunter is the boss. If you go over there and he presents you the documentation that you are going on a legal hunt and this guy paid $55,000 for this hunt. It wasn't like he paid $5,500 for that hunt. That's probably around the going rate for that hunt in that part of the world.

So, it leads me there is a good chance that Mr. Palmer was duped. Now, the other thing, you know, was it ethical, some of the things that he did? That -- definitely a lot of the aspects of it were legal. You can shoot a lion in Zimbabwe with a collar on it. You can shoot a lion with a bow and arrow. There were a lot of things that came out at first that weren't well and true. Those are the things as well as the lion actually having a name to it that blew this situation up so high.

[19:45:02] I think if it was another lion that was killed by an Africa poacher that happens all the time, I don't -- Kate, I don't think we would be sitting here talking about it right now.

BOLDUAN: Corey, let me ask you about that, because in the case of Dr. Palmer at this point, he is now facing potentially extradition. He has faced death threats and he's now gone into hiding. You have also faced death threats following your hunt. Kinds of makes you wonder -- makes me wonder -- is the personal toll worth it to continue with this sport? Does this now give you second thoughts?

KNOWLTON: It doesn't give me second thoughts at all. I mean, death threats are -- I had -- I can't tell you the amount of death threats I had. And what I went on was one of the most legal vetted hunts in the history of the world.

And what you need to understand -- I think the population is missing this on this -- is the vast majority this hunting habitat, especially for lions, is hunting areas. And the vast majority of the dollars that are protecting these animals are from legal hunting.

So, keep this in mind, too. The people that are the game scouts in these areas and the people that are prosecuting these crimes, they are paid for with hunter's -- their salaries are paid for with hunters' dollars. If you take this out of it -- you take it out, you are losing a gigantic area of has been at that time. You lose the prey animals. You lose the whole situation.

So, absolutely, it's worth taking some death threats from some people who don't understand the reality of the situation in Africa and the reality of keeping these animals and what it takes to keep them on the face of the earth.

BOLDUAN: It has definitely gotten thrown into the spotlight. Where the money goes, that is disputed I know as you well know by critics of the sport. But that is not for the discussion tonight.



KNOWLTON: Yes, I understand what you are saying. But if they look it up, you can find out where the money goes.

BOLDUAN: There we go.

KNOWLTON: You just have to dig.

BOLDUAN: Dig up that information.

Corey, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

KNOWLTON: Thanks Kate. You have a great night.

BOLDUAN: You, too.

OUTFRONT for us next, we have breaking news.


DISPATCH: Checking, you are advising that the officer is down or the suspect?


Call the ambulance! Call the ambulance!


BOLDUAN: Wow. A massive manhunt is finally over for a 29-year- olds suspected of gunning down a Memphis police officer during a traffic stop.

And also for us ahead, on a much lighter note, the stunt that made a professional biker tremble in his boots.


[19:51:06] BOLDUAN: Breaking news on the manhunt for a suspect accused of shooting and killing a Memphis police officer. Authorities just announced that Tremaine Wilbourn is in custody tonight. The 29- year-old has been on the run since Saturday, when police he opened fire on Office Sean Bolton.

Nick Valencia is OUTFRONT.


tonight announcing a man wanted for killing a police officer is in custody. Twenty-nine-year-old Tremaine Wilbourn turned himself in this evening, following a two-day manhunt. It began Saturday night when Officer Sean Bolton spotted an illegally parked car. As he approaches, police say he is confronted by Wilbourn, who opens fire. A citizen uses the officer's radio to call for help. But it's too late.

RADIO: 4-8-7, 4-8-7, (INAUDIBLE) Summer Lane, 487 Summer Lane. He's shot.

DISPATCH: Officer is shot?

(INAUDIBLE) now advising there is an officer down in front of the location.

TONEY ARMSTRONG, MEMPHIS POLICE DIRECTOR: This is just a reminder of how dangerous this job is.

VALENCIA: Bolton, a former marine who served in Iraq, had been on the force nearly five years. Investigators believe heave he interrupted a drug deal Saturday night and that's why Wilbourn, a convicted felon, shot the officer multiple times.

Memphis Police Director Toney Armstrong visibly emotional shortly after the shooting.

ARMSTRONG: As a community, we say so often there is a thing, do black lives matter? At the end of the day we ask ourselves, do all lives matter? Regardless of creed, color, economic status, what profession that person holds, all lives matter.

VALENCIA: In the last four years, three Memphis police officers including Bolton have been shot and killed in the line of duty.

ARMSTRONG: When you look at this individual, you are looking at a coward. He is a coward.


VALENCIA: Wilbourn's arraignment is scheduled for tomorrow. In his initial interrogation with police, he told them, quote, "I am not a cold-blooded killer, I am not a coward" -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Nick Valencia, thank you very much.

VALENCIA: You bet.

BOLDUAN: Coming next for us, surfing like you have never seen it before.


[19:57:48] BOLDUAN: So, walking on water, of course, always seemed like the impossible feat. But biking on the water, we leave that to Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It makes walking on water seem lame.

Stunt biker Robbie Madison didn't just ride on water. He rode the waves in Tahiti, no way, you say.

ROBBIE MADISON, STUNT BIKER: It's an overwhelming experience.

MOOS: It took three years of experimentation, culminating on a dirt bike on two skis with tires protruding through cutouts, custom made paddle tire, propelling the bike from the rear like an old steam paddleboat.

How many times over the course of the project did you actually sink the thing?

MADISON: About, 30, 40 times easily.

VALENCIA: No wonder his bike wears airbags so they can recover it. The video coincidentally released the same weekend as the annual dog surfing contest in California. The pooches managed cool moves on their surfboards.

None of them hot dogs like this?

Madison's past stunts ranged from doing a flip over London Bridge to a leap over a Greek canal. He has been a stunt double for James Bond -- though none of that compared to this.

MADISON: It was one of the most terrifying situations I have ever been in.

MOOS: But you don't see the scariest part of the stunt when Madison was missing for several minutes.

Launching from a barge with a ramp he caught one of Tahiti's monster waves.

MADISON: It picked me up. Slammed me. The motorcycle drove me into the back. I lost all the air in my lungs.

MOOS: For four minutes he was under water able to surface for a breath three times. And gave up fighting and saw the peaceful lightness of a near-death experience.

To be continued when the behind the scenes video is released later this month, never has a dirt bike been cleaner.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


BOLDUAN: Can you imagine when he turns to his friend, you guys I have this awesome idea. I am going to surf with my dirt bike? I would love to have win in the room then.

Thanks for joining us everybody.

"AC360" starts right now.