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GOP Hopefuls Take Stage in New Hampshire Forum; Ted Cruz Makes Machine Gun Bacon in New Video; Officer Sued: School Cop Handcuffs Kids with ADHD; New Yorker" Profiles Ex-Cop Darren Wilson. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired August 04, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[09:00:12] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, a horrifying night at the circus. A tent collapses, killing two, injuring dozens. What happened?

And who's in? Who's out? In hours we could know which Republicans will be sitting on that debate stage. We break down the latest polls.

Plus, a shocking video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now you need to behave the way -- this is what we should do. Always start with the consequences.

COSTELLO: An 8-year-old boy in handcuffs. The officer, handed a lawsuit.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

By the end of today we will know which Republican candidates will appear on that debate stage on Thursday. By 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time a final tally of the Poll of Polls will be taken and 10 Republicans will be able to express their views on a primetime stage.

And by CNN's account here's how it ought to go. Donald Trump widening his lead over the pack, gaining the support of 23 percent of registered Republicans or Republican-leaning independents. Jeb Bush and Scott Walker are next, trailing Trump by double digits. Everyone else -- Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, John Kasich -- only scoring in the single digits, but still enough to make it on that primetime stage.

Those numbers coming as the majority of the field took the stage in a preview of sorts last night in New Hampshire.

Joining me now to talk about is CNN political reporter Sara Murray and CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Welcome to both of you and thank you so much for being here. I

suppose we should talk about Trump's surge because, Sara, it continues to grow.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. The Trump movement does continue to grow. Some of the latest polls have him with support from one in four Republican voters. So we're talking about a pretty wide set of support, not just sort of the angry disenfranchised voters that seem to initially gravitate to Trump. And look, I think we saw a little bit of either candidates trying to speak to that base in the forum last night.

For instance, when you have Ted Cruz, you know, bashing Washington, bashing lobbyists, that is aiming for the supporters who are right now following Donald Trump. And I think we're going to see more of that, other Republicans trying to pick away at the Trump base of support.

COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's play for our viewers some of what's said at that forum last night.

Nia-Malika, I'd like you to listen to Lindsey Graham. Here's what he said about Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm fluent in Clinton speak. You want me to translate, Jet? When he says, Bill says, I didn't have sex with that woman, he did. When she says, I'll tell you about building the pipeline when I get to be president, it means she won't. And when she tells us, trust me, you've got all the e-mails that you need, we haven't even scratched the surface. So I understand this crowd and I can beat them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Your thoughts, Nia-Malika?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks like -- I mean, if we look at those polls Lindsey Graham will not be on the debate stage on Thursday night. But that is what he's known for, those kinds of zingers that have some sort of humor but also a bit of an edge. But again he probably won't be on that stage.

You can see last night people trying to break through, people trying to show off their personality. You can also see how confining the debate stage is going to be. You're going to have 10 folks on that stage. A lot of them appeared rusty, I think, in terms of delivering their one-liners, particularly Jeb Bush trying to get off a line about his father and his relationship to his family and his last name.

So we'll see what happens on Thursday in terms of how this sort of preview prepped them for Thursday night.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Sara, let's listen to one of the newbies, Scott Walker. Here's what he had to say at last night's forum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I've won three elections in four years. The last two of which I won after a lot of people were upset on the Democrat side of things. And we did it by making big bold actions and got -- and got results because of that. I'd love to go against whether it's Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. I'm a new fresh face versus a name from the past. I'm someone from outside of Washington with a proven track record. And most of all I've gotten things done in a blue state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And, Sara, he's -- he's showing, Scott Walker is showing some improvement in the polls.

MURRAY: Yes. And Scott Walker is sort of giving us a hint at what his strategy is going to be going into the debate stage. He did not want to take on Donald Trump. He doesn't want to try go head-to-head with him. This is a guy who while he has become more well known, a lot of America doesn't know him. And so he wants to talk about his record. He wants to cast himself as sort of a new generation of politician, as a fighter but someone who can also get things done. And so I think that we should expect to hear a lot more comments like that in the actual debate on Thursday.

COSTELLO: So Rick Perry likely won't make it on the stage in the primetime debate? I kind of hope he will, though, because he talked about immigration in a way that's directly opposed to Donald Trump. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[09:05:03] RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can secure the border. It takes boots on the ground. It takes the security fencing in the metropolitan areas and you have aviation assets. And I'm talking about from Tijuana to El Paso to Brownsville, flying 24/7 looking down with the technology to be able to see what's going on and identifying where there's activities that are obviously illegal or suspicious and fast response team.

That's what you have to do. I know how to secure that border. If you elect me president of the United States, I will promise you one thing. The will to secure that border will reside in the Oval Office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Nia-Malika, he's very effective when it comes to talking about border security.

HENDERSON: He is. And he's also been pretty effective in going after Donald Trump. He's been one of the most vocal antagonists of Donald Trump. But, remember, last go-round, A, he didn't do so well in that debate, that oops moment. But also he got in trouble with the Republican base for being more of a moderate in terms of immigration reform. So I think on stage on Thursday you're going to see the entire spectrum of the Republican Party. Sort of Trump's very boisterous and sometimes poorly-worded rhetoric in terms of immigration and reform and illegal immigrants, and then you'll hear more moderate voices of people like Jeb Bush.

COSTELLO: All right. Can't wait until Thursday, I must say.

Sara Murray and Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

And as the candidates prepare for their moment on stage this Thursday, there will likely be no debate over gun violence, despite the fact an unbalanced man managed to buy gun -- or buy a gun legally, walk into a Lafayette, Louisiana, movie theater and open fire. Perhaps the unresolved nature of that tragic case -- is what makes some of Ted Cruz's machine gun bacon spoof so unsettling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course in Texas, we cook bacon a little differently than most folks. There's grease coming down. Mm. Machine gun bacon.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So I wrote an op-ed about America's cavalier attitude towards guns. I know my op-ed made an impression, 225,000 users checked it out. I argued that we no longer respect our weapons, we forget that guns can actually kill. If you want the facts to back that up 100 children were killed in unintentional shootings between December 2012 and 2013. The year after the Newton shootings, by the way. And there have been 1,104 accidental shootings so far this year.

It's great Senator Cruz loves guns. Nothing wrong with that. But seriously, while a jury in Colorado decides whether James Holmes gets life or death for killing 12 people, should you fry bacon on your machine gun?

Joining me now to talk about this and more, Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz and a conservative writer, and Ben Ferguson, conservative radio talk show host and CNN political commentator.

Welcome to both of you.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SEN. TED CRUZ: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, Amanda, Ted Cruz is not alone in his zeal for zany video clips. I get it. Trump is entertaining so why not join in the fun. But at what point do you cross the line or is there no longer a line to cross? CARPENTER: Well, I think Ted Cruz is very ready and able to talk

about the gun control issue and doing something about mental health and reducing gun crimes, which I think -- you know, that I would like to see debated on the Republican debate stage tomorrow night. It's an important thing to have. With Chuck Schumer coming out with new legislation, we should have a very respectful debate over keeping weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill who commit many of these mass shootings.

So we can have that discussion. At the same time, you can have a fun video. I don't see, you know, this reduces his credibility in talking about the legislation that we may need to pursue to strengthen the existing criminal record system.

COSTELLO: Should we have respect for our weapons, though, Ben?

FERGUSON: Well, we do have respect for weapons and I think Ted Cruz has respect for his weapon.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Frying bacon on the muzzle of a gun?

FERGUSON: I think you just didn't like the way he did this or talk about it. But, look, Ted Cruz has talked about gun violence very often. Bobby Jindal is another great example. He was in Louisiana and he talked about gun violence and mental health issues afterwards. Both these men are very articulate about mental health and issues of buying guns, but I think what you saw from Ted Cruz was Ted Cruz was having a little bit of fun.

And shooting can be fun. He was also in a range. He was also shooting the right way. No one's criticized the way he handled that weapon in any capacity during that video. And I think he was saying, you know what, I love the outdoors, I like shooting, I like guns. I'm going to have a little fun with bacon at the same time. It was a spoof to get to know him and I don't think it has anything -- any issues to do with gun violence or not wanting to go tough on people that commit gun crimes or background checks or anything else.

[09:10:03] COSTELLO: Seriously, though, Amanda, can't he just say he loves guns? Why did he have to fry bacon on his machine gun?

CARPENTER: I think he would tell you any day of the week that he loves the Second Amendment and what --

(CROSSTALK)

CARPENTER: And that video does show that. At the same time we can be responsible and reduce gun crimes at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: And most people that are buying guns, by the way, illegally -- COSTELLO: So, Ben, when do you -- do you seriously think there will

be -- do you seriously think there will be a big gun debate on that debate stage on Thursday?

(CROSSTALK)

CARPENTER: I don't think there --

FERGUSON: I don't think there's going to be one -- I don't think there's going to be one coming up maybe this week, a big debate. I think later on in the election you're certainly going to see it. But we also had a big debate barely a week ago, a week and a half ago in Louisiana. Every presidential candidate was on the record talking about that shooting that happened including Bobby Jindal who will be on that stage.

So the idea that there hasn't been into gun is a little bit of unfair. There has been one and they've all been on the record and they've all spoken at NRA events and different things like that so there are very much going to be a debate on guns. It's just not one of massive gun control on the GOP side.

COSTELLO: Amanda, I'm trying to keep an open mind here. You were going to say?

CARPENTER: No, I'll just say, I think this is something that can be talked about. Republicans are not shy about talking about how to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and making the existing system work.

COSTELLO: But nothing ever changes.

CARPENTER: We can all acknowledge that there --

COSTELLO: Wait, nothing ever changes. Nothing. Nada. Nothing.

CARPENTER: Yes. And I'm actually a little -- I'm excited about what Chuck Schumer and Amy Schumer are going. She is tackling the mentally ill problem. And this is where the debate has always needed to go but has always started from the fact that we need to expand gun control and take rights away from law-abiding Americans. We need to focus our resources on the people most likely to commit these crimes.

FERGUSON: I agree.

CARPENTER: And where red flags are being raised and are being missed.

COSTELLO: OK. OK. OK. I hear you.

CARPENTER: This is something that Republicans are willing.

COSTELLO: So, Ben -- so, Ben.

FERGUSON: Yes.

COSTELLO: If one of these question-askers at Thursday's debate asks any of the Republican candidates if they would jump behind Senator Schumer's idea to strengthen background checks, would any of those Republican candidates say, sure, I'm with Chuck?

FERGUSON: I think a lot of them would say they'd be more than happy to sit down with Chuck and look at the details. But the devil is always in the details. And many times you have Democrats, they will claim that they're trying to do something on mental health when in reality they're trying to ban a gun that in their eyes look scary regardless of what that gun actually does or shoots or the size of the bullet that it has.

And so there is a big trust issue here when it comes to this. If you want to sit down bipartisan and deal with mental health laws, I think every governor in the -- in this country, the Republicans and every congressman and senators willing to have that conversation and actually push forward legislation.

Bobby Jindal is one of those that obviously after what happened in his state is more than willing to come to the table and talk about that. So I think that's common ground they can actually agree on.

COSTELLO: I hope you're right, Ben.

Ben Ferguson, Amanda Carpenter, thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, crying third graders handcuffed by the upper arm, outrage growing and now there's a lawsuit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:06] COSTELLO: Two people are dead and dozens injured after a circus tent collapsed in New Hampshire. A CNN affiliate WMUR reports a father and his young daughter were killed. About 100 people were inside the tent when a severe thunderstorm struck. Officials are investigating whether the tent setup contributed to the tragedy.

A news conference is expected in the next hour. Stay right here and we will bring that to you live.

In northern Kentucky, just across the river from Cincinnati, simmering outrage has turned to a boil largely because of this video.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

COSTELLO: That is an eight-year-old boy crying out, saying he is in pain. He had acted up and a school resource officer handcuffed his arms behind his back. The same officer did the very same thing to a nine-year-old girl. Both children are diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. And now their mothers are suing.

CNN's Martin Savidge is here with more for you.

Good morning. MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Yes, this incident, we should point out, occurred in November of 2014, in other words the last school year. And the reason the video is coming to light now is because of this lawsuit you mentioned. And what the accusation is, that the use of handcuffs here was just too excessive in this case.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER: Now, you can either behave the way you know you're supposed to or suffer the consequences. It's your decision to behave this way.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): This controversial video is difficult to watch.

OFFICER: You don't get to swing at me like that.

SAVIDGE: The sheriff's deputy now facing a federal lawsuit by the ACLU restrains the third grade boy with handcuffs. According to the complaint, the boy's arms pulled with excessive force behind his back. He can be heard crying out in pain.

The small eight-year-old child who according to the lawsuit suffers from disabilities related to ADHD and a history of trauma. He's shown in the 15-minute video cuffed at the biceps, his wrists apparently too small for the adult-sized restraints.

OFFICER: You can do what we've asked you to, or you can suffer the consequences.

CHILD: Ow, that hurts!

OFFICER: Now sit down in the chair like I've asked you to.

SAVIDGE: That officer who works at Latonia Elementary identified in court documents as Deputy Kevin Sumner of the Kentucky sheriff's office. Also named in the lawsuit, the sheriff of the Kenton County, alleging his failure to adequately train and supervise Sumner.

OFFICER: If you want the handcuffs off, you're going to have to behave and ask me nicely. And if you're behaving I'll take them. But as long as you're acting up, you're not going to get them off. Are you done yet?

SAVIDGE: The complaint was submitted on behalf of the young boy from the video identified only as "SR", as well as another special needs student, a nine-year-old girl who was also handcuffed in the same manner by Officer Sumner on two separate occasions, causing pain and trauma according to the lawsuit.

[09:20:08] RICKELL HOWARD, CHILDREN'S LAW CENTER: There was no legitimate law enforcement purpose there. Neither child committed a crime, and all of their behavior was related to their specific disabilities. OFFICER: Look at me for a minute. Look at me for a minute. Look at

me. If you want the handcuffs off, you go to stop kicking. You want them off or not?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Carol, I want to read to you now the statement that we got from this independent school district about this incident. And it reads like this, "SROs are law enforcement officers who are assigned in the schools to maintain the safety of the students and staff and they act in accordance with their training as professional law enforcement officers. They are not called upon by school district staff to punish or discipline a student who engages in a school related offense."

The other thing I learned is they do not routinely videotape these kinds of actions. The question is, why did someone record this particular event? We're still trying to track that down -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. I'll let you back to it. Martin Savidge, reporting live for us this morning -- thank you.

SAVIDGE: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Still to come in THE NEWSROOM: surprising new information about the Ferguson police officer who killed Michael Brown is coming your way next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:30] COSTELLO: Next Sunday, August 9th, marks the one-year anniversary of the fatal police shooting of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown.

The man who pulled the trigger, former Ferguson Missouri Police Officer Darren Wilson. He's pretty much dropped from sight since then.

Well, now, "The New Yorker" magazine has published an in-depth profile of Wilson and what his life is like now. Among other things, he and his wife have moved and they have an infant daughter.

During his time with Wilson, "The New Yorker" writer pressed for more details on the day he killed Michael Brown. This is from the reporter. These are his words: "I asked Wilson repeatedly to discuss this moment with me, but he declined, noting that Brown's parents are pursuing a civil lawsuit and that he didn't need details in print they're going to try and spin."

Let's bring in CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill, and former New York City police detective, Joseph Giacalone.

Welcome to both of you. I appreciate it.

JOSEPH GIACALONE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Thank you. COSTELLO: I must say this article is fascinating. I want to start with what Wilson's life is like now. He's unable to work because the media tracks him down. He can't go to the grocery store because people come up and ask him questions. He can't play outside with his children.

He says he eats in restaurants, quote, "but only at certain places. We try to go somewhere -- how do I say this correctly -- with like- minded individuals, you know, where it's not a mixing pot."

Marc, what do you make of that?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, let's be clear, and throughout the article, he does this. He doesn't like to name race. He doesn't like to talk about race, but he likes to invoke race.

He says he likes to go to places where they are like-minded. When you walk into a restaurant, you don't know what's in people's minds, not even their stomachs. What you know is what race they are.

What he meant is, I don't go to places where there are black people. Later in the article, he talks about culture, I don't go to, you know, certain cultures have problems. He meant black communities. Again, these are all things that he talks about.

But to the key part of what you talk about just now, I'm sure he's living life almost like a prisoner. I'm sure he is living a life that is hellish for him. And I don't wish that on anybody, but it's also hard to muster too much sympathy when I think about the parents of Michael Brown and many other parents of slain teenagers.

COSTELLO: And, Joseph, I think Officer Wilson is surprised by all of this. In fact, he was surprised by the initial reaction after the shooting of Michael Brown, because he says, he told "The New Yorker" he was prepared to go on with life, with life as usual.

Quote, "Neither one of us," Wilson and his wife, "knew what the reaction was going to be the next day. You know, a typical police shooting is you get about a week to a week and a half off, you see a shrink, you go through your internal affairs interviews and then you come back."

Joseph, what does that say about Wilson's training?

GIACALONE: Well, I mean, there is no such thing as an ordinary police involved shooting. I mean, these things are very traumatic for everybody, including the police officer. But the community, they really misjudged what was going to happen. Social media is a big game changer for a lot of these things with video and, you know, Twitter and Facebook and everything else.

So, they really underestimated the response by the community and also the lack of information that they put out. It made it look like they covered up everything from the beginning. So, they have to look back on this. And this other police departments

have looked back on this and seen basically a model of what not to do in a police involved shooting.

HILL: Yes.

COSTELLO: And the reason this surprised me so much is because Officer Wilson claimed he liked working in black communities. In fact, when he worked in Jennings, before he worked at Ferguson, he reached out to a friend of his to better deal with a community because he said it was a different culture and he didn't understand it, Marc.

HILL: He said I like working around black people they're funny.

COSTELLO: They cracked him up. That's what he said.

HILL: They cracked me. That's what his exact words were, they cracked me up.

It's fascinating. I don't think Darren Wilson has malice in his heart. I don't think he wakes up in the morning and says, I wanted to shoot a black person in August 9th, 2014.

I think he sees himself as a good natured person. I think he sees himself as just doing his job. The problem is he has normalize certain assumptions about black people, about policing, about crime, about community, about human nature, that brings in that sort of smuggles in white supremacy, that smuggles in racism, and smuggles in really dangerous notions of what role police are supposed to play in our community.

That's what makes Darren Wilson so dangerous. The fact is he's not a monster. He's an ordinary person who's part of a monstrous system.

COSTELLO: Well, the other interesting thing is that he had a tough background himself. His family life was terrible. So, some people might say that he should understand other's backgrounds and what makes them tick, right? But this is the thing that you were talking about Marc before, and I'm going to read another quote from the article.

He was talking about the culture in Ferguson. He said, quote, "It's a pre-gang culture where you're just running in the streets, not worried about working in the morning, just worried about your immediate gratification. It's the same younger culture that is everywhere in the inner cities."