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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Child Handcuffed by School Cop; Race for the White House; Darren Wilson Breaks Silence. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 04, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much, everybody, for joining us "AT THIS HOUR." A tough way to end it. My goodness.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Republican candidates pledging allegiance before having their say at a voters' forum. Each one got a shot at being a star, but it's not justice for all. At the next debate, when only 10 get to play, who is going to make the cut?

Also ahead, a year after the death of Michael Brown and the firestorm in Ferguson, the officer who pulled the trigger breaks his silence about the 45 seconds that changed his life and so many others.

And exactly who are those registered sex offenders living on your street? Maybe not the monsters or molesters you might think. In fact, some may be just the opposite.

Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW. It's nice to see you again.

I want to begin with a video that is really capturing a lot of attention nationwide and it may have shocked you already. And if it didn't, it might now. A Kentucky school resource officer, a sheriff's deputy, handcuffing an eight-year-old child, trying to stop him from acting out. But the child suffers from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. You may know that as ADHD. It's quite common. The child's so small that the handcuffs actually have to be positioned around his bicep so that they won't fall off his tiny wrists. As CNN's Martin Savidge reports, apparently this is not the only time this has happened at this school and now there is a federal lawsuit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OFFICER: Now, you can either behave the way you know you're supposed to, or you suffer the consequences. But it's your decision to behave this way.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This controversial video is difficult to watch.

OFFICER: You don't get to swing at me like that.

SAVIDGE: The sheriff's deputy now facing a federal lawsuit by the ACLU restrains the third grade boy with handcuffs. According to the complaint, the boy's arms pulled with excessive force behind his back. He can be heard crying out in pain. The small eight-year-old child, who, according to the lawsuit, suffers from disabilities related to ADHD and a history of trauma, is shown in the 15-minute video cuffed at the biceps. His wrists apparently too small for the adult-sized restraints.

OFFICER: You can do what we've asked you to or you can suffer the consequences.

CHILD: Ow, it hurts! Ow!

OFFICER: Now sit down in the chair like I've asked you to.

SAVIDGE: That officer, who works at La Tonya (ph) Elementary, identified in court documents as Deputy Kevin Sumner in of the Kentucky Sheriff's Office. Also named in the lawsuit, the sheriff of Kenton County, alleging his failure to adequately train and supervise Sumner.

OFFICER: If you want the handcuffs off, you're going to have to behave and ask me nicely. And if you're behaving, I'll take them off. But as long as you're acting up, you're not going to get them off.

CHILD: (INAUDIBLE).

OFFICER: Are you done yet?

SAVIDGE: The complaint was submitted on behalf of the young boy from the video identified only as S.R., as well as another special needs student, a nine-year-old girl, who was also handcuffed in the same manner by Officer Sumner on two separate occasions, causing pain and trauma, according to the lawsuit.

RICKELL HOWARD, CHILDREN'S LAW CENTER: There was no legitimate law enforcement purpose there. Neither child had committed a crime and all of their behavior was related to their specific disabilities.

OFFICER: Look at me for a minute. Look at me for a minute. Look at me. If you want the handcuffs off, you've got to stop kicking. Can you do that? Do you want them off or not?

SAVIDGE (on camera): The school district has issued a statement saying that the law enforcement officers are there first and foremost to protect students and staff members and then they went on to say in their statement, quote, "they are not called upon by school districts to have to punish or discipline a student who engages in a school- related offense." That district is not part of the lawsuit. Instead the lawsuit is focused squarely on the sheriff's department.

Martin Savidge, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: So much to talk about. With me to do that, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and also Kelly Wallace of CNN Digital, who covers parenting issues, and I don't think I could have two better guests.

I watched this and I was sort of so astounded at two aspects, how this officer clearly did not know how to handle a special needs child and how this child was so traumatized and in pain.

Paul, let's start with the legal side of it. Is there a case here, certainly a federal case here? Is that officer, that school district, are they in trouble?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the federal case has been filed and, you know, it's very interesting because I'm used to handling excessive force cases involving the police or wrongful conviction cases where you see what we call a 1983 federal action. That's the action that's been brought here on behalf of the child saying that this was an excessive use of force by someone who's employed by the state in violation of the child's constitutional rights. And I think from this film we all cringe when we see that child, you know, really in pain, I think, with those handcuffs behind him.

[12:05:28] The real issue, though, are the permanent damages. You've got to prove two things in a lawsuit. One, that you were damaged and that those damages have some permanence. And I think that's where they may get into some problems. Hard to prove that this will scar him for life.

BANFIELD: So, Kelly, I think there's a - there are two different schools out there watching this right now -

KELLY WALLACE, CNN DIGITAL: Yes.

BANFIELD: The parents who don't have children who are special needs and aren't traumatized themselves in trying to raise special needs kids who can be horrifyingly, painfully difficult. Some parents don't know how to deal with children who are unmanageable. Other parents think, I've never seen anything this awful in my life.

WALLACE: Right.

BANFIELD: I don't know what to say about this officer. He is in an environment where he has to deal with children, whether they're special needs or not. But what do you say to the professionals out there who have to deal with special needs kids and can't deal with them the same way?

WALLACE: Well, you raise so many important issues there. Number one, we want to make sure that our professionals who are dealing with kids with special needs have the training that is required. The school district even said in this case that the school resource officers are not supposed to be punishing or disciplining a child for any kind of offense going on there.

So, a, you have to raise that question, did this officer have the right training? Was he - did he have the grounds to do what he did under the, you know, Kentucky board of education own law that you can't use handcuffs on a child unless that child looks like it's going - the child is going to hurt himself or someone else. But I think we also have to talk about dealing with special needs kids. We know, you know, we were talking about it, physical restraints should be a last resort.

BANFIELD: And only if the child's going to hurt him or herself or someone else, right?

WALLACE: Exactly. We want to be active listening, using a calm voice. Paul and I were talking about it. I remember dealing with, you know, a tantrum - a child having a tantrum. You hold their arms from behind them -

BANFIELD: Yes.

WALLACE: And you talk to them in a calm voice and say, "calm your body, calm your body."

BANFIELD: And can I just tell you, tantrum children will - an ADHD child can be that on steroids day after day after day.

WALLACE: Right.

BANFIELD: But regardless of that, Paul, if this officer did not know the difference in dealing with a tantrum and a kicking and hitting child, if that's what was happening, is there Mensrhea (ph) there? Is there something where he truly thought what he was doing is restraining the kid from hitting him, or hitting himself or hurting himself, or doing something that was punitive, which is entirely different?

CALLAN: Well, it is entirely different. And you eluded to Kentucky law. Kentucky has a statute that says you can restrain a child that child is going to hurt himself or somebody else. This individual from the sheriff's department, by the way, is a former teacher, Kentucky officials said, and although he's in a law enforcement capacity, you would think he's got experience in handling kids. I think we've got to step back from this case a little bit, though, and find out what was going on at the time the officer put the restraints on.

BANFIELD: Before the video. It's always before the video.

CALLAN: I mean was it really horrific?

WALLACE: Yes.

BANFIELD: No, I know.

CALLAN: Was he - was he trying to hurt somebody? I'm not hearing that in the reports. You know, the only thing that's reported is that this third grader took a swing at the cop's elbow. Well, what's the big deal there? So it does sound like an overreaction from the beginning to end, but we've got to see all the facts.

BANFIELD: I have to leave it there, sadly.

CALLAN: Yes. BANFIELD: But there is a difference between handling kids as a teacher or handling special needs kids and there's so much science that's now out there. I mean you're just scratching the surface -

WALLACE: Right.

BANFIELD: With the immense amount of work that you're doing, Kelly. I think this is not the last we've heard of this story. Thank you both.

WALLACE: OK.

CALLAN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

Coming up next, 14 Republican candidates each got a real shot in the spotlight at a big event in New Hampshire. Maybe that's because you know who wasn't there sucking up all the oxygen and all the key lights. We've got the key lights, the highlights, the lowlights and a look ahead to Thursday, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:12:30] BANFIELD: The day after 14 of his opponents each enjoyed a rare few moments in the spotlight, Donald Trump is more of a GOP front-runner than ever. Just take a quick gander at our latest poll of polls factoring in four new surveys just completed over the weekend. On average, Trump holds a 10-point lead over his nearest rival Jeb Bush with no one outside the top three candidates even in double digits. The top 10 candidates, as judged by Fox News, well, they're going to take part in the first official debate. I know you can't wait It happens on Thursday.

But all of them, all of them were invited to this fancy forum last night in New Hampshire, home to the nation's first presidential primary. A single moderator questioned each man and woman for five minutes. And though the name Trump never did come up once, another rival's name came up a whole bunch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As to the Clintons, I've been dealing with this crowd for 20 years. I'm fluent in Clinton speak. You want me to translate, Jack? When he says, Bill says, "I didn't have sex with that woman," he did. When she says, "I'll tell you about Bill and the pipeline when I get to be president," it means she won't. And when she tells us, "trust me, you've got all the e- mails that you need," we haven't even scratched the surface. So I understand this crowd and I can beat them. And if we can't beat them, it doesn't matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, one candidate did talk a lot about a political figure that he admires greatly. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My dad is probably the most perfect man alive, so it's very hard for me to be critical of him. In fact, I've got a t-shirt that says - at the Jeb swag store that says, "I'm the - I'm the - my dad's the greatest man alive. If you don't like it, I'll take you outside."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, them's fighting words.

I'm going to take this conversation down to Washington now with CNN political director David Chalian and senior political reporter Nia- Malika Henderson.

Hello, you two.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Hey there.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Hello.

BANFIELD: I'll bet you're getting so excited for Thursday, so let's just dig right in, shall we? I just wanted to ask right off the bat, while they were all having their way and say, nobody took pot shots at each other. Is that just sort of around the corner? Is that Thursday? And I'll start with you, David.

CHALIAN: I'm not even sure we're going to see that Thursday, Ashleigh. I said - you know, if you listen to that Lindsey Graham sound there that you just played, I mean that's what we call red meat for the Republican base, right, take on Bill and Hillary Clinton, and the crowd really enjoys that. I think we're going to see more of that Thursday. I think some of these folks, obviously, need to differentiate themselves and they will do so and the moderators will work very hard at trying to expose those differences. But it's still early and I think that we have tended to see that early debates are less about sort of really trying to punch someone out and more about getting your name out there, introducing people to yourself and getting the Republican base excited about your ideas.

[12:15:34] BANFIELD: Well, I always love seeing these lineups, and we just had that up before we went to the three shot of us, that when you saw all of them walking out on to the stage, it almost felt like, er, er, awkward. It looked like the rusty walk towards, "I hope I make it." And I'm wondering if that's just because it's only early in the game and we haven't seen a lot of these guys and girl or if they are kind of awkward and they're not going to get their stride and this rustiness is going to prevail.

Nia, what do you think?

HENDERSON: Well, possibly. I mean you did see some rustiness there. Jeb Bush trying to get off that line, I guess it was supposed to be funny. Hard to tell what the punch line was there. But you saw some of that with him. By Thursday hopefully he'll sort of have some of that rust knocked off. And we'll just have to see. I think, of course, the unknown factor here that must make everyone

nervous is Trump. He's sort of like a Tasmanian devil, I mean, in terms of just being very unpredictable. So I think he'll be - he'll be that way on Thursday, even though he's kind of promised to be the good version of Trump, meaning that he doesn't - he doesn't expect that he'll go after his opponents.

But, again, I think that crowd there will be a kind of sixth man, right? Real factor in this, and these folks like Marco Rubio, who's low in the polls, who's - Rand Paul, who's become sort of an afterthought as well. They'll try to rise up in the polls, but they'll have to deal with the specter of Donald Trump, who will be front and center.

BANFIELD: David, let me ask you this real quickly. When Thursday comes around, we know for sure that Donald Trump, you know, he gets a shoe in for sure in the ten spots. But when he's up next to a bunch of guys who are really good with arcane policy, that's not where he shines. He shines in the bumper stickers. He shines in those things that people like to cheer on reality TV shows. Does that matter at all anymore given the runaway success he seems to have?

CHALIAN: Well, I don't know that you want to get, no matter who you are on the stage, mired in arcane policy because, again, I think the name of the game here is to have to have a moment - and Nia is right, you don't want to necessarily have that moment just by punching at Trump because he's already said, if you punch me, I punch back. He usually wins those fights. But I do think you need to find some space to introduce yourself to these voters. I think Donald Trump also, Ashleigh, has been boning up on policy. So I wouldn't be too surprised if he comes in here and has a little more sort of policy cred in his game than we've seen so far.

BANFIELD: I can't wait. I really can't wait. I've heard him say, "I don't like to debate." And I'm like, dude, you have to do this. Just for our sakes alone, we need you to debate.

Thank you to the both of you.

HENDERSON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And I know I'm going to see a whole lot more of you, so I hope you don't lose your voice like I did. We'll see you soon, guys, thanks. Cheers.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Ashleigh.

HENDERSON: You too.

BANFIELD: By the way, for the very latest, I want you to have a gander at our website, cnnpolitics.com, because I know you're a junkie and I know you can't get enough and one hour of TV is just not enough for that. So, take a look.

Coming up next, one year after the shooting death of Michael Brown, what is life like for that former police officer who pulled the trigger? He is talking about it and you'll hear about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:22:06] BANFIELD: Michael Brown died a year ago this week. The shooting that set off a national firestorm. And now the former Ferguson, Missouri, police officer, who shot and killed him, is breaking his silence. And it is in a whopper of a "New York" magazine interview. The article includes this new photo of Darren Wilson. In it, the former cop says he cannot find another job in law enforcement and he insist he was just doing his job the day he killed Michael Brown. Brown's family, infuriated by his comment, but not surprised, they say. CNN's Boris Sanchez reports on this thorough profile of Officer Wilson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Darren Wilson speaking out almost a year after shooting and killing unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown. A new photo of the former Ferguson police officer accompanying an over 20 page in-depth interview by the "New Yorker" magazine. The reporter, who spent several days with him in March, says the now 29-year-old lives in an undisclosed new home. Very few know where.

DARREN WILSON: We just want to have a normal life.

SANCHEZ: Far from Wilson's wish proclaimed for he and his wife in an interview with ABC News nine months ago, Wilson now says he'll only go to places where there are "like-minded individuals" and it's "not a mixing pot."

And about the death that sparked national outrage? Wilson says he doesn't think of Michael Brown as a person because, quote, "it doesn't matter at this point." When asked if he thought Brown was truly a bad guy, Wilson said, "I only knew him for those 45 seconds in which he was trying to kill me, so I don't know." Brown's family says they're not surprised.

ANTHONY GRAY, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: There are so many inconsistencies and hypocrisies throughout the article itself. It just perpetuates the view of Darren Wilson as being self-serving.

SANCHEZ: Wilson admittedly has not read the Justice Department's report on the systemic racism in Ferguson. The former cop says he's "not going to keep living in the past." Wilson says, "if you live in a high crime area with a lot of poverty, there's going to be a large police presence." He claims, "it's not a race issue."

Wilson goes on to say that in Ferguson there is "a lack of initiative to get a job." The youth are "running in the street," he says, "not worried about working in the morning." The 29-year-old claims that culture is "everywhere in the inner cities."

JEFF ROORDA, BUSINESS MGR., ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS ASSN.: Darren Wilson is no racist. I know him well. I think the article misrepresents who he is. SANCHEZ: Boris Sanchez, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Well, it was a year ago there was a hashtag that came out, just hashtag, "black lives matter." And one year later, it is not just a hashtag. That is a movement. So what does Michael Brown's death one year ago mean for the movement? And where are we headed? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:28:35] BANFIELD: Darren Wilson is breaking his silence just days before the anniversary of Michael Brown's death. The former Ferguson, Missouri, police officer, who shot and killed Michael Brown, tells the "New Yorker" magazine that he is not haunted by his actions and was just doing his job. He also says that he and his wife were surprised by the reaction to Brown's death.

In the article, Wilson says, "neither one of us knew what the reaction was going to be the next day." He goes on the say, "you know, a typical police shooting is: you get about a week to a week and a half off, you see a shrink, you go through your internal affairs interviews and then you come back." That did not really happen here now did it?

Joining me now to discuss Wilson's comments and how the Ferguson community has changed and really the vast community across the United States since the year Mike -- since the year since Michael Brown died is St. Louis Alderman Antonio French, who took a leadership role in trying to keep Ferguson protests peaceful, along with CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander, who's also the past president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives.

Welcome to you both. I'm glad to have you both on this, you know, very sad anniversary. It's coming up on Sunday. And if I could start with you, Cedric, I just want to get your feelings. I don't know if you've had a chance to read this exhaustive interview, by I'm sure you've seen the highlights and I want to get your opinion on what these words say to you or mean to you from Darren Wilson.

[12:30:08] CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, -- well, thank you for having me, Ashleigh.