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Gunman Opens Fire in Nashville Movie Theater; Malaysia Confirms Debris Is From MH370; GOP Rivals Prepare To Face Off With Trump. Aired 7-8:00p ET

Aired August 5, 2015 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:10] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. A gunman opens fire in a dark movie theater, also armed with a hatchet, pepper spray and wearing a surgical mask. The latest on this breaking story.

Plus, the search for MH370, confirmation today that the debris found in the Indian Ocean is, in fact, from the missing plane.

And was Bill Clinton actually the one who pushed Donald Trump to run for president? We have new reporting tonight about a very important phone call between the two men. Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, a gunman opens fire in a Nashville movie theater. The shooter's face was covered by a surgical mask. He was armed by a gun, a hatchet and pepper spray. Listen to the tape we're just getting in of the gunshots.


You hear multiple rounds there. Police shot and killed the gunman but not before three people were injured. One man was cut, apparently, by the gunman's hatchet. Police described how the shooting went down.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gunman, the suspect raised his weapon toward that officer, pulled the trigger. That officer then fired on the suspect and then backed away from the theater.


BOLDUAN: The shooter also had a backpack and a satchel. A bomb squad was called in to investigate those.

Boris Sanchez is OUTFRONT for us tonight with much more. So, Boris, you have to say it. This is the second attack of a movie theater in less than two weeks. What more are you learning about what happened here?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, we're getting a clearer picture exactly what happened in that movie theater. Investigators tells us that at about 1:15 today, a 51-year-old while man set off canisters of pepper spray inside a showing of "Mad Max: Fury Road" in Antioch, that's a small community in Nashville. Apparently, as he set off the canisters, three people ran out of the theater and got the attention of two police officers who were actually attending to a nearby car crash. The police officers responded to the scene within two minutes. One of the officers went inside the theater and was shot at by the gunman.

He returned fire and slowly got out of the theater. That's when the S.W.A.T. team showed up and shot and killed the gunman as he was trying to escape. As you said, Kate, he was discovered wearing a surgical mask. He had obviously a gun, a hatchet as well as pepper spray and two backpacks. The bomb squad investigated those backpacks. They took a closer look at them saying that they found things that made them uncomfortable. So, they were detonated this afternoon. The silver lining and all this is that only three people sustained minor injuries. No one had to be taken to the hospital. But as you said, Kate, we're dealing with another attack on a movie theater in the United States.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And what more can you tell us about the victims here?

SANCHEZ: There were three. They were a family. There was a 58- year-old man named Stephen, a 53-year-old woman and their 17-year-old daughter. All of them sustained injuries from the pepper spray. Obviously, their eyes were burning. And also, the man was hit with that hatchet as you mentioned. He sustained a bruise on his shoulder. All of them expected to be okay. He actually spoke to cameras this afternoon saying he was thankful for the swift response from law enforcement.


STEVEN, WITNESS TO THEATER SHOOTING: My family does not want any kind of 15 minutes of fame. We were not looking for any of this. We did nothing to bring this upon ourselves. And I am very, very grateful that no one else got injured here today other than the person who perpetrated this.


SANCHEZ: You can hear the emotion in his voice there, Kate. He also went on to say that his faith in humanity was restored after he saw the way people attended to his 17-year-old daughter who was hit in the face with the pepper spray.

BOLDUAN: Boris, thank you so much. That man clearly shaken and understandably so.

OUTFRONT for us tonight, Cina Thomas. Cina, you heard the shots from outside the movie theater. If you can, walk me through what you heard, what you saw, what happened.

CINA THOMAS, WITNESS TO THEATER SHOOTING (on the phone): Okay, I was headed to the library. And when I got out of my car, police were everywhere. They told me to get back in my car, in my vehicle. And I did. And then I realized how bad the situation was. There were police and S.W.A.T. were everywhere. I tried to just leave, because I was nervous. I didn't know what was going on. But they turned me right back around. I did see the victims on my video, you can see them on the grassy area. They are hunched over because their faces were sprayed. At the time, I could see their faces were red, but I did not know they were the victims.

BOLDUAN: And Cina, did you hear -- you heard the gunshots? Those gunshots rang out.

THOMAS: It was after I turned back around, yes. You could hear the gunshots. At that time, I didn't know what it was. I mean, I thought it was gunshots, but everything was so crazy at that moment. I heard so many pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. And then, you know, people started screaming and running. And even before that, people were running out of the theater screaming and crying.

[19:05:26] BOLDUAN: And you mentioned the victims you saw them right after the attack. Can you describe a little bit more of what the scene looked like?

THOMAS: At that time, because I was there well before the police got there, they were sitting on the -- they hadn't been attended to by paramedics yet. They were just really red in the face and they were crying. The young lady, she just was crying and bent over. And I don't know if it was her father or a man helping her. But I did not know at that time that they were the victims.

BOLDUAN: Cina Thomas, thank you so much for jumping on the phone. I'm sure you are shaken as well. This is not how your afternoon thought was going to be turning out. But thank you so much.

OUTFRONT with us now, CNN law enforcement analyst Harry Houck, he's also a former NYPD detective. Fran Townsend, CNN national security analyst and former Homeland security advisor to President George W. Bush. And CNN legal analyst and former police Officer Phillip Holloway.

So, Harry, we are now talking about a second attack on a movie theater in less than two weeks. Why theaters?

HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, theaters are targets of opportunity because they have a large amount of people in a small area. If you're going into a small theater where there's about several hundred people in there, there's only several different ways out. Not too many. And once you go in there, if you are a shooter, if you just fire into the crowd, you are going to hit somebody. So, it's a very easy place to attack.

BOLDUAN: Now, Harry, Fran, Phillip, hold on. The police chief is talking right now. Let's see if he has an update for us.

CHIEF STEVE ANDERSON, NASHVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're working on the outside. But at some point we will know more and know exact details. But at this time, we do not know exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we know the officer fired.

ANDERSON: We do know that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when the suspect left the theater outside and turned and threatened the S.W.A.T. team, did he fire at the S.W.A.T. team sir?

ANDERSON: I do not know that at this time. But again, they engaged him with fire. We do not know if the officer that fired in the theater actually hit him or not. We do not know that at this time. That's something we will be able to determine at a later date.


ANDERSON: We had some erroneous information -- and we identified someone. But that is not the person, the person we have. We have -- we're working hard to exactly confirm the identity before we release it, before we notify family members. But we believe the suspect is 29 years old.


ANDERSON: He is a male white. He is from this area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know what type of firearm he was using?

ANDERSON: At this point, we've not located the firearm. They're still processing the crime scene back there again as we're able to go in fact inside the theater. Look around and completely process, we will know more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we know if he had a firearm?

ANDERSON: The first officer saw a firearm, yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before the shooting, there were -- there were (INAUDIBLE) around this area. Do you know anything about that?

ANDERSON: I do not. We had some information that someone saw him. But again, I think that we may attribute that to the first information about the 51-year-old individual. So, in fact, we do not have any information at this time. Detectives all across are looking at every business. We have people downloading video that might be available from some of the businesses. So, again, this will be pieced together piece by piece, slowly as we go along. And this is preliminary information at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you describe the firearm, high powered, handgun?

ANDERSON: I do not know at this time. The officer was engaged in what he considered to be a fire fight starting to fire -- starting to occur. So he immediately backed up and to get assistance. So, we have his account at this point. But he is not -- he cannot exactly describe the weapon at this time. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the challenge in identifying the

suspect? Does he have an I.D. on him or?

ANDERSON: He has an I.D. on him. But we want to make sure through fingerprints and other identification that we can exactly confirm his identity before we release it and before we notify family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you describe what he was doing to the patrons in there at this time, best as you know? When the officer walked in, what had he done to those patients? How was he threatening them in?

ANDERSON: At this time, we are interviewing the patrons in the theater and we will find out more. But we know at least that he used the ax in some threatening manner, actually striking one individual and was pepper spraying people. But at this point, I do not know exactly what he was doing that alerted people to call for help, to run to our officers for help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he say anything to indicate why he was --

ANDERSON: I do not have that information at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still believe he had two backpacks on him? One was detonated, were both taken care off?

ANDERSON: He had two backpacks on him. The one that remained on his person had what you might term as hoax device. It was a device configured to look like an explosive. It was not. The backpack inside had nothing in it that was harmful in any manner.

[19:10:31] BOLDUAN: We're leaning right there to the police chief in Nashville giving an update. And it is clear, they have -- they are working to try to piece together exactly what happened in that movie theater regardless, we do know that there was this attack in this Nashville movie theater. The man is a 29-year-old white male. Let's just continue this discussion. From a little bit from what we've heard though Fran, this gets back to the main question, movie theaters are soft targets. They go into this category. And it makes people wonder when they see something like this, can you be safe in a movie theater? The fact of the matter is, can you ever make them 100 percent safe?

FRAN TOWNSEND, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, and it's not just movie theaters. Right? It's any -- all entertainment venues. Right? We worry about football games and baseball games. They're all soft targets. And so, look, what you have to understand here is we don't know what the motive is and we're not likely to know for a little bit. Right? That we don't really know what else was in the backpack. We don't know what he said, if anything, and that people heard. We don't know what's on his computer at home, which they are likely to want to go and look at.

And so, we will learn more over the coming days. We can't -- this may be someone who was an emotionally disturbed person who went off. On the other hand, we're particularly sensitive right now in the last 24 hours, al Qaeda issued a call for lone wolves. We know ISIS has reached out on social media to inspire people. We know from the FBI director that he is worried about terrorism here. I think that combination of things makes us very worried. But what we know is, there's a lot we don't know yet. Even the police chief is saying he needs some time to piece this together.

BOLDUAN: Yes. They have had already some discrepancies in the information that they had. I mean, one thing that has been catching my eye Phillip is the fact of what this guy had on him. He had a gun, he had a hatchet and he had pepper spray and a surgical mask. What do you make of it? And these bags of -- they don't believe it was anything threatening. But something that could have been fashioned to look maybe like it was a bomb. What do you make of that?

PHILLIP HOLLOWAY, FORMER POLICE INSTRUCTOR: Well, Kate, what this was -- this was a suicide by cop in the style of James Holmes as a copycat type situation. This individual went in this movie theater probably not knowing that he was going to make it out alive. Probably assuming that he would not make it out alive. He had those -- he had the mask. He had other items in his hand, the hatchet things like that because he wanted to terrorize the individuals inside there. He wanted to imitate someone like James Holmes so that when he went out, he was going to go out in style. And that is what this was.

And I got to tell you, the Police Department did an excellent job in this active shooter situation by engaging the shooter. They actually went to the gun, so to speak, because by doing that, they were able to immediately contain him so that he was not able to do any more damage than he did. And fortunately, no one lost their lives due to the outstanding response of these police officers.

BOLDUAN: And still a lot to be learned this evening about what happened in that movie theater. We will going to be following that. Phillip, thank you so much. Fran, Harry, thank you guys so much.

OUTFRONT next, officials confirm the airplane debris found off the African coast is from MH370. So, will it led investigators to the rest of the plane now?

Plus, new details of a phone call between Bill Clinton and Donald Trump just before Trump announced his run. Did Clinton push him into the rate?

And how a debate can turn on just a few well-placed words.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy.



[19:17:54] BOLDUAN: Breaking news in the search for flight MH370. Malaysia confirming tonight that the piece of debris recovered on a remote island is indeed from the plane that vanished with 239 people on board. That part of the wing is the first piece of debris to wash up some 2,600 miles from where the jet is believed to have crashed.

Saima Mohsin is OUTFRONT tonight in France where investigators are now examining the flaperon.


SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Malaysia's prime minister made the longed awaited announcement.

NAJIB RAZAK, MALAYSIAN PRIME MINISTER: An international team of experts have conclusively confirmed that the aircraft debris found on Reunion Island is, indeed, from MH370.

MOHSIN: The debris, a piece of the wing called a flaperon found eight days ago on Reunion Island off the African coast. It's now being tested at a specialized laboratory in Toulouse in France. Joe Reynolds, who has worked on high profile crash investigations like Air France 447, showed us as an aviation forensic lab in Maryland how investigators will use a high powered microscope to match a small part, even the paint, to a specific plane.

JOE REYNOLDS, RTI FORENSIC SERVICES CEO: If we know that Malaysia Air painted their aircraft with a certain color, a certain material paint, we would then look at the outer paint on the aircraft itself and match that to what Malaysia Air had applied to the airplane.

MOHSIN: Australia officials say the search area off the coast of Australia won't change despite finding the piece of debris more than 2,000 miles away. And today, an Australian Science Agency released an updated drift model showing how floating debris could possibly have crossed from the search area across the ocean to the South African coast. Shortly after the Malaysian prime minister spoke, a French prosecutor took a less definitive stance saying instead that the confirmation is not 100 percent and more tests need to be done.


MOHSIN: And that disparity between the confident conclusion from the Malaysians and the reluctance to confirm from the French has only led to more questions, less clarity. And so, to me no closure for the loved ones of the passengers and crew members onboard Flight MH370. Now, today, at this lab, investigators spent more than four hours looking at that flaperon. They all had to be together to open the sealed container. There are more tests to be done Thursday, likely to be sonograms, x-rays, 3-D imagings, not to just tell us that this is a part from MH370. But also to tell us potentially how that plane went down in the Indian Ocean. The why in that question though has to come from those flight data recorders -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: And that's still very far off right now. Saima, thank you very much. OUTFRONT with us now, CNN safety analyst David Soucie, he is also

a former FAA safety inspector and David Gallo, the director of special projects at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Guys, it's great to see you. So, David, I want to pick up right where Saima was kind of leaving off. You know, the Malaysian prime minister saying, conclusively confirmed the debris is from 370. Then you have the French prosecutor just a short time later essentially saying, there is only a very strong presumption, that is from 370. Shouldn't they be reading from the same script at this point, why the discrepancy?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: They should have been from the beginning, honestly, Kate. You know that this has been going on forever, ever since the aircraft disappeared, was that the Malaysians made announcements and then retracted. Said, wait a minute, we said that little too soon. So, it's not uncommon in this multi-national group to have this miscommunication going on at all.

BOLDUAN: And David Gallo, this new animation I want to ask you about. It was released today by the Australian investigators. And it's really fascinating to see. It shows where the floating debris could have drifted, kind of taking everything into account. And it covers, understandably so, a vast area of the Indian Ocean. With that in mind with your expertise going forward now, where do investigators look?

DAVID GALLO, WOODS HOLE OCEANOGRAPHIC INSTITUTE: Well, for more floating debris, they could be looking any place. I took it -- with that model and you know, with time, the ocean disburses all of those items that began their journey all in one spot, more or less. And so by now, 515 or 16 days, they could be any place in the southern Indian Ocean. So, certainly, they should focus around the area of Reunion. But that doesn't exclude any other place in the entire Indian Ocean.

[19:22:48] BOLDUAN: So, it leaves a whole wide open, ocean to keep looking for this stuff. And David Soucie, the French prosecutor also said today that they are examining that suitcase that was also recovered on Reunion Island. There's a lot of skepticism around that piece of debris. And it is also very different from being part of a plane. How will they determine if a suitcase was, in fact, on that flight do you think?

SOUCIE: Well, they will be determining that it wasn't rather than it was. Because it's just -- it could be a suitcase from anywhere. And the chances are, as David said, when things get disbursed, the reason they are dispersed is because they have wind, if it's sitting above the ocean at all, any part of it, the wind will drift it one way. Then you have the ocean currents taking it in another. So, the change of that large object would have ended up so close to where this small piece of debris landed is highly improbable, I would say.

BOLDUAN: And we know that the flaperon, getting back to this part of the wing, David Gallo, it's made to be lightweight. At this point now 500-plus days out, what other parts of the plane from your experience and vast experience in this area, what other parts do you think would still be floating? GALLO: Well, in the case of Air France 447, where there was

quite a bit of debris on the surface, many of those floating things were, in fact, control surfaces like bits of the flap and from the main wings and the tail section of the plane. So, similar items would be floating. On the other hand, many items like the galley from inside the aircraft were floating as well. So, it all depends on how light it is and how well it's able to keep water out.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Well, all the focus now still in the water. And the focus now in that lab in France to figure out exactly what they can learn from that flaperon. David Soucie, David Gallo, thank you, gentlemen. It's great to see you.

OUTFRONT for us next, CNN is learning tonight that Bill Clinton called Donald Trump. They spoke on the phone just before Donald Trump announced his run for president. Did Bill Clinton push Donald Trump to get into the race?

Plus, running Trump's campaign from an apprentice contestant to a former Sarah Palin staffer, meet his small but very powerful inner circle.


[19:29:06] BOLDUAN: Tonight, the most highly anticipated event of the presidential race so far, just about 24 hours away. The republican presidential candidates' first debate. Right now, those candidates are behind closed doors locked in last minute preparations for their first face to face encounter. Much of the focus tonight on the man topping the polls, Donald Trump. The only candidate who has never participated in a political debate like this before. So, is he prepared? And the candidate in second place, Jeb Bush, plagued by a series of stumbles. How will he perform before his largest audience to date?

Dana Bash is OUTFRONT from Cleveland, Ohio, the site of tomorrow's debate.


DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The biggest event at this Cleveland arena these days is when LeBron James is playing. But all these satellite trucks are lined up for political support. The first republican 2016 presidential debate.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're not a reality television.

BASH: Sources close to the nine GOP contenders sharing the stage with the unlikely frontrunner Donald Trump insist he will not be their focus.

RUBIO: All of us who were running, all voters an explanation about who we are, what we plan to do if we were elected. And that's what I plan to focus on it.

BASH: As for Trump, he insists, he wants to focus on issues.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not looking to hurt anybody. I'm not looking to embarrass anybody. If I have to bring up deficiencies, I will bring up deficiencies. But certainly, I'm not looking to do that. I'd rather go straight down the middle. But you don't know what's going to happen.

BASH: And tries to lower expectations, politician-style.

TRUMP: I have never debated. My life has been a debate, but I have never debated before. These politicians, all they do is debate.

BASH: The question is whether the man who retaliated against an opponent by reading his cell phone number on live TV can help himself.

TRUMP: I don't know if it's the right number. Let's try it, 202 --

BASH: Trump's hard charging lawyer warns, maybe not.

MICHAEL COHEN, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Look what happened to Lindsey Graham, not even in the debate. Look at what happened to Rick Perry, not even in the debate. You attack Donald Trump, he's going to come back at you twice as hard.

BASH: But while Trump may be the most entertaining, Jeb Bush may have the most to lose. He is still the favorite among many establishment Republicans. This is a critical chance for him to prove he is worth the record $100 million-plus he raised.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm -- my dad is the greatest man alive. If you don't like it, I'll take you outside.

BASH: That shaky performance at a New Hampshire forum earlier this week has some worried. Not to mention, this stumble yesterday when talking about funding for Planned Parenthood.

BUSH: You could take dollar for dollar -- I'm not sure we need a half a billion dollars for women's health issues.

BASH: But his campaign is trying to stay on message in a new cheeky way, the Jeb Bush swag store, selling things like this vintage tank top.

BUSH: This was a serious decade.


BASH: And Bush sources say they are well aware that he has a lot to lose in tomorrow night's debate. They say that what he is prepping is to introduce himself to the Republican electorate and really the country in a way that maybe they don't -- they haven't seen him before.

They know his name. They know his family. But -- and they know the way his opponents have been painting him. But not necessarily from their perspective, the conservative record that he did build in Florida. So, that's the thing you can expect from Jeb Bush. He's also expecting perhaps the moderators to try to mix it up between him and Donald Trump. We'll see if he is ready for that.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHO: You can be sure of that at least. Great to see you, Dana. Thanks so much.

OUTFRONT tonight, 2012 presidential candidate and former Minnesota governor, Tim Pawlenty, along with Brett O'Donnell, who helped prepare Mitt Romney for presidential debates in 2012, and this time, he's advising -- debate advising, Senator Lindsey Graham.

It's great to see both of you.

So, Governor Pawlenty, four years ago, ah memories I'm sure you are saying tonight. You were on that stage with almost as many people. But no Donald Trump that time. How does the Trump factor change the game do you think?

TIM PAWLENTY, 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think it's an opportunity and a challenge. The opportunity if somebody dares to break out by using an attack or engagement with Donald Trump as their strategy, that could make them stand out and break through, particularly, if you are a second or third tier candidate.

But here's the challenge, he is very gifted at counter-punching and attacking. It might backfire. So, he's a loaded grenade there, and it could go either way.

BOLDUAN: He sure can. That's why I'm sure they are preparing for every contingency. That's where you come in, Brett.

What are the candidates -- except for Donald Trump who says he is not preparing. What are all the candidates doing right now 24 hours out?

BRETT O'DONNELL, DEBATE ADVISER TO SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, I think they're doing last minute rehearsal. They're going back to some of the questions, making sure that they know the answers to issues that they want to drive their message on. They are finding ways to pivot to their message.

But most importantly, they are probably going through some live practice and rehearsing how they'll handle Trump, how they'll handle some of the other candidates on the stage.

And I tend to agree with Governor Pawlenty. You know, it's how you handle Trump that might make the difference for how you get out of this debate tomorrow night at 9:00. The great thing is the happy hour debate at 5:00 promises without Trump to be I think more substantive.

BOLDUAN: Offers the man you are advising the opportunity to break away. That should be Senator Lindsey Graham in the happy hour debate.

And, Brett, you have said this before, you can't win an election in a debate, but you sure can lose one.

And, Governor Pawlenty, you faced a tough moment like that in the 2012 cycle on stage, not taking the chance to repeat your attack line of Obamney care against Mitt Romney.

From that, what is the debate lesson learned for you?

PAWLENTY: Well, in that case, I just muffed the answer.

But a couple of things, if you are established and you like your position in the race, I think you have to reinforce your brand and reinforce your message and hopefully not have a boomerang moment with the Donald.

If you're in a second or a third tier candidate, you've got to break through, because it's not just your people who are going to be watching the debate, it's all the people that will be watching the clips. They will only play the clip if it's interesting.

[19:35:00] So, if you are Lindsey Graham, who's kind of funny and provocative, or Chris Christie, the blunt talker, or Rick Perry, the tough Texan, you have been trumped. Somebody in the race is bigger, louder, more interesting, more entertaining.

And so, the previously entertaining subgroup is going to have to find a find to either show substance or re-engage at a level that will get the press' attention. That could work but it also can get preposterous if you take it too far.

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly, what is your headline going to be the next day? That's one big question.

So, Brett, Trump is now saying that he wants to play nice on stage. That he is only going to attack if attacked. First off, do you believe that? And second, how do the candidates prepare?

O'DONNELL: Well, first of all, I don't believe that. I don't know how Trump can keep himself from attacking. That's what he has made a living out of doing since he got into this race. He's attacked everyone. In fact, he said he wasn't going to attack and in that same interview, he talked about how the people that have attacked him have fallen off in the polls deservedly so.


O'DONNELL: So, he attacked them.

And I think that that's probably going to happen tomorrow night. He will attack without saying he is attacking.

The question is, if you are another candidate, how do you handle that? Do you effectively counter punch in a way that lets you know that you've got the command of the stage? If that happens for you, then you're going to come out on top.

It's going to be tough. I think the governor is correct that Trump is well-experienced at this. I mean, he's made a living out of attacking celebrities on his show. So, I don't think he will find it hard to go on offense in a political debate. I don't think he separates those things.

BOLDUAN: One thing we know that he's not good at is staying to time, though. When you have seen the interviewed he has done, that's going to be the thing the thing that they are working against, is there's little time to get the point across when there are ten folks on stage and questions and also times for rebuttal. It's going to be fascinating to watch.

Great advice here. It's great to see you both. Thanks so much.

PAWLENTY: Thanks, Kate.

O'DONNELL: Good to be with you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

OUTFRONT next, new details about a phone call between one President Bill Clinton and Donald Trump just before Trump jumped into the race.

And, growing outrage tonight over this video of a sheriff's deputy handcuffing an 8-year-old little boy. Tonight, an OUTFRONT investigation reveals this harsh treatment is surprisingly common.


[19:40:21] BOLDUAN: New reporting tonight that is raising a whole lot of eyebrows and boosting some conspiracy theories. We are learning Bill Clinton called Donald Trump before Trump jumped into the race. The call, according to a Clinton aide, came after Trump reached out to the former president.

Suzanne Malveaux has more on this late-developing story.

A whole lot of people are going to want to know about this, Suzanne. What more can you tell us about this very important phone call?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely. I mean, interesting here, Kate, is the timing of the call. Hillary Clinton, she was in the race. And Trump was in the final throes of trying to make his decision about this.

And an aide is telling us that the presidential race was not discussed during this conversation here. But they did talk about Trump's influence. The Clintons had attended Trump's third wedding in 2005. So, they had been social in the past. And also, Trump has contributed to the Clinton Foundation.

So, this is a big, big talker. But tonight what we're doing is going behind the scenes, taking a really close look at team Trump and the inner circle.


TRUMP: Tana, you are a good leader. You're a hustler.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Tana Goertz was almost hired once by Donald Trump, on "The Apprentice".

TRUMP: Very much the opposite of Tana. And for that reason, I'm saying, Kendra, you are hired.

MALVEAUX: Now, ten years later, the Iowa mom and reality TV coach has landed a top gig inside Trump's campaign. As Trump's Iowa co-chair, Goertz describes herself as the candidate's hype girl.


MALVEAUX: Seen here in an infomercial she made for Bedazzler.

Then, there's Trump's legal guy, Michael Cohen.

COHEN: They say I'm Mr. Trump's pit bull, that I'm his right hand man. I mean --

MALVEAUX: No stranger to cameras, a key insider on the business side at the Trump Organization since 2006. Back on TV defending Trump, just a week after making controversial remarks denying marital rape, which he since apologized for.

COHEN: In all fairness, who hasn't said something or done something that they regret simply trying to protect somebody they care about?

MALVEAUX: Trump said Cohen doesn't speak for the campaign. But despite the backlash, stood by his longtime aide.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You're not going to fire him or get rid of him?

TRUMP: No, I'm not.

MALVEAUX: In 2011, Cohen helped kick off when his billionaire buddy flirted with the idea of running for president.

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: The polls clearly indicate that his message is resonating with the American public.

MALVEAUX: Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski. He's a former New Hampshire state director for Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group backed by the billionaire Koch brothers.

TRUMP: And if you would, get me the articles, get me those couple of articles, Hope and Corey.

MALVEAUX: Hope Hicks, the poised 26-year-old, plucked from Ivanka Trump's staff, to work PR for the Donald, most recently, the communications director for the Trump Organization, described as the consummate professional, opposite of her boss. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Trump's national political director is Michael Glassner. He's a seasoned political operative with more than 30 years of national campaign experience. The former adviser to Sarah Palin. He's going to lay out the big picture strategy.

And recently, fired by Trump, Sam Nunberg. He was fired after racist posts discovered on his Facebook page. Now, Nunberg denies writing them.

But ironically, Nunberg had been fired by Trump previously from his 2012 presidential campaign before he was hired back again this year, before being let go, Kate. So, he does a lot of hiring and firing.

BOLDUAN: A lot of -- we know he does a lot of firing, that's for sure. I think that was the name of a show, part of a show maybe. I don't know.


BOLDUAN: Suzanne, it's great to see you. Thanks so much.

And joining me now is chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

So, Gloria, we can talk about the inner circle. But I have to ask you about this phone call that Suzanne was reporting about.


BOLDUAN: This call between Donald Trump and President Bill Clinton in the lead-up to Trump's presidential announcement. What do you make of it?

BORGER: Well, it's very clear that Bill Clinton was returning some phone calls from Donald Trump. You know, as Suzanne pointed out, there was a pre-existing relationship there. Trump has been a donor to the Clinton Foundation. The Clintons went to Donald Trump's third wedding.

But it seems very clear to me that Trump wanted to talk to Clinton about politics. You know, wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall in that conversation?

But if you want to get conspiratorial about it, if Trump is considering a presidential bid, why wouldn't Bill Clinton say, yes, that's interesting, you know?

[19:45:08] Yes, maybe you could speak to the party base. I mean, the more the merrier as far as Bill and Hillary Clinton are concerned on the Republican side. The more discord the better. So, why would Bill Clinton do anything to discourage Donald Trump?

BOLDUAN: It's so fascinating, and probably we will continue to feed some of what we heard in the conspiracy theories. Many conservatives saying, could he be a Democratic mole? I mean, it has been out there.

BORGER: I don't think so.

BOLDUAN: I'm with you, Gloria. I'm just tossing it out there.

BORGER: Yes, yes.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you. Thank you.

BORGER: Good to see you.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, this disturbing video. You have seen it. A third grader handcuffed for acting out in class. Next, why this outrageous scene is actually a widespread practice.

And Jeanne Moos on why it's not the long answers, it's those memorable moments that make debate winners and losers.


RICK PERRY (R), THEN-2012 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: OK. Commerce, Education and the --



BOLDUAN: It's a grade school incident caught on camera sparking outrage across the country. This video shows an 8-year-old boy being handcuffed. His wrists so small the sheriff's deputy had to latch the cuffs around the boy's biceps, the boy has ADHD. He had been acting out. The sheriff's department is defending the deputy's actions saying he was doing what he was sworn to do.

[19:50:03] As shocking as this video is, incidents like this happen more than you might realize.

Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT with our special report.


KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is a child just 8 years old cuffed at the upper arms buy a deputy, the school resource officer.

CHILD: Owww! It hurts!

OFFICER: You can behave the way you know you are supposed to or you suffer the consequences.

LAH: Shocking and heartbreaking but not the only time a child has been put in handcuffs. In Tecumseh, Oklahoma, this police officer's body camera captured his exchange with this 9-year-old boy handcuffed after the police say he threatened school staff. Investigations by the police department and the FBI found the officer acted appropriately. In Stone Mountain, Georgia, a 6-year-old handcuffed by the school

officer after the school says he was violent and a danger to himself and others.

Across the country, U.S. Department of Education data shows in the 2011 to 2012 school year, more than 70,000 students were physically restrained during school, 75 percent of those restrained were students with disabilities.

OFFICER: Calm down.


LAH: Law enforcement often called as a last resort. In this video, a frustrated parent calling the police trying to control his disabled 11-year-old child.

And the shocking video from Kentucky law enforcement experts say you can't just blame the officer.

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I'm putting the whole blame on the school here. I'm not putting it on the officer at all. The school has people that are trained to deal with these type of children. Police officers aren't.

LAH: The school says it is cooperating in the investigation and that the district calls on law enforcement to maintain safety of students and staff.

STEPHANIE MARCY, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL LOS ANGELES: I completely believe it's a symptom of a problem.

LAH: Psychologist Stephanie Marcy works with disabled children and school districts and says school systems are too often reactive, not proactive. Underfunded, the teachers often overwhelmed.

MARCY: Until the entire system is looked at, I think we are going to continue to see incidents like this happen, we are going to continue to be upset and distressed by how the children are being treated, and the police are going to continue to be vilified and put into situations that make them look bad.


LAH: Unfortunately, there is no easy solution for all of this other than time and money. The U.S. Department of Education did issue some official guidelines in 2012 recommending that seclusion, restraint never be used unless there is imminent danger.

BOLDUAN: Kyung, thank you so much.

OUTFRONT for us next, we have Jeanne Moos with the special debate moments that define a candidate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:57:24] BOLDUAN: So, Donald Trump says if he is attacked in

the debate tomorrow, he will be forced to retaliate. Well, to prepare us all, a history lesson from Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We tend to watch debates -- hoping to see a train wreck. Instead, we are left with memorable moments. Sarah Palin winking.

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How long have I been at this, five weeks?

MOOS: Ronald Reagan demanding the sound system not be turned off.

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT: I am paying for this microphone, Mr. Green.

MOOS: A line he picked up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you shut me off when I am paying for this broadcast.

MOOS: From Spencer Tracy in the movie "State of the Union".

TV magnifies everything. The sweat glistening on Nixon's chin that he had to wipe off.

To Al Gore's exaggerated --

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: That's what a governor gets to do.

MOOS: -- exasperated sighs.

BUSH: There's differences.

MOOS: Resuscitated by "SNL".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rome came to life in gladiator.

MOOS: What was I going to say again? Oh, yeah, unforgettable, forgetful moments.

PERRY: Commerce, Education, and the -- what's the third one there? Let's see.

MOOS: Rick Perry's oops moment.

PERRY: Oops.

MOOS: And Arizona Governor Jan Brewer's brain freeze.

JANE BREWER (R), FORMER ARIZONA GOVERNOR: That we could possibly do. MOOS: And this was just her opening statement.

You know what a televised debate isn't the time for? Checking the time as President George Bush did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How has the national debt --

MOOS: Debates are a time for memorable zingers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy.

MOOS: And one-liners. For instance, from a relatively unknown canned candidate for vice president.


MOOS: And whatever you do -- candidates, don't invade your opponent's personal space.

As Hillary's Senate once rival did.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here, sign it right now.

CLINTON: We'll shake on this, Rick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I want your signature.

MOOS: Or when Al Gore crept up on George Bush.

BUSH: But can you get things done. I believe I can.

MOOS: There is nothing about debatable behavior to liven up a debate.

BUSH: There's differences.


CLINTON: Thank you.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are we not doing the talent portion?

MOOS: -- New York.


MOOS: There is a talent portion in the CNN debate. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. When in doubt, Donald Trump, just wink at the camera.

Thanks for joining us, everybody.

"AC360" starts right now.