Return to Transcripts main page


Republicans Clash At First Debate; Carly Fiorina Reacts To Debate Performance; Trump: "I've Been Preparing All My Life." Aired 7- 7:30p ET

Aired August 6, 2015 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:08] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. Donald Trump says he has a bull's eye on his back as his fellow Republicans attack him in the first debate of the 2016 race. My guest tonight, Carly Fiorina who took Trump on directly.

Plus, all eyes are on Jeb Bush tonight as well. Can he recover from his stumbles on the campaign trail? And more airplane wreckage found off the coast of Africa, if it's from MH370, what could it tell investigators about how that plane went down.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett tonight. OUTFRONT tonight, we have breaking news taking on Trump, republican style. Republican candidates on a debate stage for first time in the 2016 race trying to break out of the pack and move up to their party's top ten. But among the 17 republican hopefuls in Cleveland for these debates, Donald Trump is clearly the man of the night. Trump and his wife, they made what some would describe as a presidential-like arrival in Cleveland as the two stepped off a private jet. Trump gave only a small hint of his debate strategy.


DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES: I have been preparing all my life. We have to make our country great again.


BOLDUAN: Preparing all his life. And while Trump has made a point of saying that he is not really prepping for the debate, he appears to be doing just that or at least reading a binder on the way to Cleveland. This is a picture his daughter Ivanka shared on social media earlier. And for the candidates in the second tier debate, that just wrapped up, it was a chance to go after Trump, who was referred to as the elephant not in the room.


RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have had my issues with Donald Trump. I talked about Donald Trump from the standpoint of being an individual who was using his celebrity rather than his conservatism. CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I didn't get a phone

call from Bill Clinton before I jumped in the race. Did you get a phone call from Bill Clinton? I didn't. Maybe because I didn't give money to the foundation or donated to his wife's Senate campaign.


BOLDUAN: The main event though the debate with the top ten republican candidates, it is less than two hours away. And even at this early stage of the campaign, the stakes could not be higher.

Dana Bash is OUTFRONT for us tonight in Cleveland where the first debate just wrapped up. So, Dana, the candidates were asked about Trump even before they discussed ISIS.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That was kind of remarkable. Wasn't it? But look, the candidates I'm pretty sure all of them only two of them spoke -- you played that about Donald Trump. I'm sure all of them had their lines ready to go. Rick Perry has been trying to pick a fight with Donald Trump for some time, which was one of the many reasons he was -- I know was bummed out that he was not on the stage with Donald Trump. Which is going to happen later tonight. And for Carly Fiorina, it was an interesting moment. Because they probably have the most similar resumes and kind of reason for running, the fact that they are both business people who have never been in elected office and so forth. So, it was clearly a moment that was stirred up by the moderators and probably not unlike what we're going to see later but a very different kind of response since Trump is going to be in the man in the center stage later tonight.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And Dan, you talked about Carly Fiorina. Listen to Carly Fiorina taking on -- talking about the Iran nuclear deal.


FIORINA: On day one in the oval office, I would make two phone calls, the first one would be to my good friend BB Netanyahu to reassure him. We will stand with the state of Israel. The second will be to the supreme leader of Iran. And the message is this. Until you open every nuclear and every military facility to full, open, anytime, anywhere for real inspections, we are going to make it as difficult as possible for to you move money around the global financial system.


BOLDUAN: Now, we will going to be talking to Carly Fiorina in just a moment. But Dana, she's been getting a lot of praise already for her performance tonight. Would you consider her the breakout star?

BASH: Absolutely. In style, in substance and also in performance, as you said. Look, there is a very diverse field this time around on the republican side. You have two Latino candidates. You have an African-American candidate. You have an Indian American candidate. You only have one woman who was unfortunately not at the debate with the big boys, so to speak, that has to do with polling. I understand that. But it certainly was a moment. Because I talked to a lot of Republicans, even here, you know, how these events work. You have members of the Republican National Committee are kind of milling around. Campaign aides who are current and former and a lot of people kind of the buzz is, you know, why isn't she getting more traction? I think the answer is probably going to be, she likely will for those who are watching this happy hour debate that just happened.

[19:05:02] BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Happy hour and then the big event happening in just under two hours. Dana, you're going to be there. Thanks so much.

And this is just the beginning folks. OUTFRONT for us tonight, the republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, we were just talking about it, congratulations on getting through the first 60 minutes of the big campaign.

FIORINA: Thanks. We know it's not the first 60 minutes of the campaign.

BOLDUAN: Very true.

FIORINA: And it's not going to be the last 60 minutes of the campaign.

BOLDUAN: That's true.

FIORINA: It's one set of 60 minutes in the campaign.

BOLDUAN: How did you think you did tonight?

FIORINA: Well, I was pleased. You know, I went into this knowing that only 40 percent of Republicans even know who I am. So I have the lowest name I.D. of anyone in the field. It shows up in national polling. And so this was a chance for people who had never seen me before to see me. And that's important for somebody like me. I also was pleased that we had limited time, but I had some time to really deal with some issues of substance. Because I do think our nation is at a pivotal point. This isn't a game. You know, it's not a sport. Politics and politicians and the policies they pursue impact every single American's life for better or for worse. And I think we're at a pivotal point where we need a new kind of leadership.

BOLDUAN: You say you have the lowest name I.D., well, I'll tell you, that must be changing tonight. Because I'm told that Google trend says that your name is topping -- is the top searched name in more states of any of the GOP candidates in that debate. So, that's changing. And that's for one thing. So, you also -- you are talking about delving into some of the issues. One of the issue you took on very quickly, you came out swinging against Donald Trump and that phone call between him and President Bill Clinton just before Trump announced his candidacy. What were you getting at there?

FIORINA: You know, I'm not sure, frankly, I would call that a substantive issue. I was responding to a question specifically about him. I think the substantive issues we talked about were Iran and ISIS and the economy and the fact that we have woven people's lives in webs of dependence. But I was asked a question. I am curious about why he got a phone call from Bill Clinton. I presume it's because they have been family friends. That's what they both said. I asked a serious question of Donald Trump as well. And that is because he has changed his mind on issues that matter to me and to Americans on amnesty, on healthcare, on abortion, what are the principals by which he will govern?

BOLDUAN: Now, after the debate, you took on Jeb Bush as well over his comments on funding for women's health. What is your problem with what Jeb Bush said?

FIORINA: Because unfortunately, he played into Democrats' talking points. The democrat talking point is that the Planned Parenthood videos that late-term abortion is about women's health. It is about nothing of the kind. The Planned Parenthood video is about picking over babies for body parts. In fact, that's what the employees of Planned Parenthood call them in this video, babies. They are picking over them for body parts. That has nothing to do with abortion or women's health, pro-life or pro-choice. It's an abomination. And secondly, it's hypocrisy for Democrats to say they care about women's health when they continued to push for late-term abortion. The majority of Americans now agree that abortion for any reason at all after five months is a problem. And it's also unfortunate that the majority of Americans don't understand that the Democrat Party platform -- Hillary Clinton's platform is that it's not a life until it leaves the hospital. That is an extreme position. People need to know that instead of falling into the trap that somehow this is a discussion about women's health.

BOLDUAN: Now, I have to get this last one in for you. Because I'm sure you have a lot do. But at one point it almost -- almost sounded like Governor Perry nominated you for secretary of state. Listen here.


PERRY: I would rather have Carly Fiorina over there doing our negotiation than John Kerry. Maybe we would have gotten a deal where we didn't give everything away.


BOLDUAN: Now, Carly Fiorina, is that a job you would be interested in?

FIORINA: You know what? Maybe I would nominate Rick Perry as secretary of commerce, because he and I did a lot of business together. And he did a good job in attracting businesses to the state of Texas, which is where we first met when I was the CEO of Hewlett- Packard. I took it as this. I negotiated a lot of deals in my life. Not an Iranian nuclear deal. But I know there are some cardinal rules of deal making that carry an Obama Brook. So, rule number one. Know what your goals are and be prepared to walk away if you don't get them. President Obama laid out a set of goals that he said were important, imperative for the American people. He caves on every one.

Rule number two, walk away from the table. Because if you don't sometimes, then no one believes you ever will. And John Kerry, Barak Obama never walked away from the table which is why we got such a terrible deal. Yesterday Barak Obama, as usual, presented a false choice to the American people. It's either war or it's what I've done. Actually, the better alternative, the better choice was a better deal. But now we're with a terrible deal which will make the world and the region a far more dangerous place.

BOLDUAN: Carly Fiorina, you are hitting all the message points tonight. Congratulations on the first debate. Looking forward to seeing more of you on the campaign trail. Thank you so much.

FIORINA: Thank you, Kate.

[19:10:16] BOLDUAN: Of course.

We will bring out our John King right now. John, so we heard -- we are hearing a lot from Carly Fiorina. She's getting a lot of applause on social media for her performance tonight. How did she do?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She did very well. She is the breakaway, Kate. Go online, look especially among conservative commentators who have influence with republican voters. They say Carly Fiorina is the runaway winner tonight. We are in the first hour of the Carly Fiorina boomlet. How big it would be? How long will it last? How strong will it be? We can't answer that question. But if she keeps this up, she will down the road, maybe not in debate number two, but maybe by debate number three or debate number four, find herself in the prime-time event.

She does have a decent organization in Iowa, she's got a decent organization in New Hampshire. And she said right there, she hasn't taken off yet but she also understood the cardinal rule of going into a debate as a politician, understand what your goal was. Right? She knew this was hello. She knew this was the first time she was going to get this level of exposure, make your points, make them strongly and she enjoyed herself. Look, the fact checkers will go after her, some of her critics will question. Some of what she said. But in terms of a performance with substance and with some energy and joy, she had a great night.

BOLDUAN: And John, were you surprised how quickly the debate turned to Donald trump and do you think when it did turn that direction the attacks were effective?

KING: Well, I think what happened, it was Carly and Governor Perry who went after Donald Trump with vigor. Carly Fiorina with humor as well actually working Bill and Hillary Clinton into the criticism of Al Sharpton. Pretty smart. She's saying, he's a flip flopper. And she is right on what she just said. She's changed his position in abortion. She's changed his position on immigration. She once support an assault weapon's ban. Now grown-ups change their minds. That's fine. But she's putting the pressure on him to explain those to conservative voters who might not know about Donald Trump's history, might not know back in 1999 he thought about running for the reform party.

Ross Perot's old party. Nomination as the third party candidate. And he said, I'm quite liberal on healthcare. Talked favorably about the single payer system. So, a lot of Trump's supporters may not know his history. Carly Fiorina, that's a sparked debate. Kate, the way I judge them is do they grow? If you go back and look at when Carly Fiorina ran for Senate a couple years ago and you look at her now, she is a vastly improved candidate. And she's going to make at least a ripple in the republican race tonight. We will see if it turns into something bigger than that.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And we have another -- a part two or I guess we call it part one and this was a part .5. We're not really sure. We have the main stage event coming up in just a little while. John, it's great to see you. Thanks.

KING: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Of course, OUTFRONT for us next, tonight's debates promise to cut down the republican field. Who wins? Who loses? And who breaks from behind?

Plus, Donald Trump's campaign has been long on sound bites, short on specifics. Will he finally be forced to talk policy tonight?

And also, harsh words for Hillary tonight. She is called a liar on Benghazi and her emails ahead. We're going to put those charges to a top democrat.


[19:16:25] BOLDUAN: In less than two hours, ten republican presidential hopefuls will be squaring off in a debate that is unlike any political match that we have seen in recent memory. The candidates have now made their way to Cleveland, including the frontrunner, Donald Trump, who spent part of the afternoon signing autographs as the other nine candidates, well, tonight IJ Review is giving us a glimpse into how they are preparing.


JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Before the debate, I normally call my mom to get advice. Hey, mom, I can't say that on television.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have a video from a couple of my very trusted political advisors.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R-WI), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For a debate, I go out and run. It's a great way to relax. You can't take any phone calls. You are not reading e-mails. You're not looking online. You are just out running and that clears your mind.

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I take these hundreds of pieces of paper, because they have all the advice that people have given me about what to say during the debate. And light them on fire. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: What is Megyn

Kelly going to ask at the FOX debate?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me check on that.


BOLDUAN: And OUTFRONT now, CNN political commentator Ana Navarro, she's also a Jeb Bush supporter. CNN political commentator Jeffrey Lord, he's also written favorably about Donald Trump. And Alice Stewart, communications director for Mike Huckabee's campaign.

Great to see all of you. Jeff, great to have you here. So, we have talked about this a lot. Donald Trump has spent a lot of time recently down playing expectations, lowering expectations. From your perspective as we walk into this, what does he have to lose?

JEFFREY LORD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, AMERICA SPECTATOR: Well, you know, if you notice, he had downgraded expectations and suddenly this afternoon we have gone to Donald Trump saying, there's a bullseye on his back. So, I think he is suddenly upgraded here. I think he got a lot of help today from Rick Perry and Carly Fiorina.

BOLDUAN: How so?

LORD: Well, I think you have to help him, in the sense that when you go after him, the experience we've seen so far is that when people go after him, his numbers go up. People are looking at a lot of these folks -- I'm not sure that they look at Carly Fiorina this way, but certainly some of these others, Rick Perry, they look at him and they see politician. And this is exactly what they are so upset about. I mean, these folks are embodying this. So, when they attack him, they are helping him. And I just am sort of continually amazed that they pursue this line, because all they're doing is helping him.

BOLDUAN: Yes. It sounds to me what he is saying right now Ana is that Donald Trump has nothing to lose as he walks into that debate. Isn't that what makes him so dangerous?

ANA NAVARRO, JEB BUSH SUPPORTER: Well, I think he actually has a lot to lose, because he's the frontrunner. When you are the frontrunner and when you are going into a debate, you have got a lot to lose. You're frontrunner style. I was surprised to see what a big part of the first debate Donald Trump was. You know, and, yes, Carly Fiorina and Governor Perry went after him pretty hard. I suspect that means that he is going to be part of the second debate, too, a question on Trump.

BOLDUAN: Ana, real quick, on your candidate, on Jeb Bush, he has been struggling recently to say the very least on the question of his family, how he differentiates himself from his family. Tonight, is the big moment. How is he going to answer that in a winning way and not fumble it?

NAVARRO: I think Jeb is going to talk about his time as governor, his record as governor, who he is, try to have the American public get to know Jeb. I don't think you are ever going to see Jeb throw his family under the bus for the purpose of promoting himself. So, if that's part of the litmus test, that's one that's going to always be hard for him. He loves his family. And I don't think it's, you know, something that he feels comfortable doing.

BOLDUAN: Go ahead, Jeff.

LORD: There's one thing. In addition to problems in terms of his own family that is what I call the Reagan Bush divide, which is basically the division between the Reagan wing and the Republican Party and the Bush wing. And I think that he may have a problem with that. It will be interesting to see which candidates there take him on as representing quote-unquote, the bushes or moderate wing of the party as opposed to the Reagan wing of the party.

BOLDUAN: Let me bring in Alice on this. Alice, let's talk about your candidate. Let's talk about Governor Huckabee. A veteran and political reporter. We know him well. I know you know him well. He offered up some pretty frank advice for your candidate today, leading into this. Let me read it to you. Fournier says, "Relocate your sense of shame. I have known you longer that you have been in politics, Governor and yet I barely recognize the desperate cynical man who accuses our president of leading Jews to the oven door."

Desperate and cynical Alice, is the governor going to be changing his tone tonight? Give us a preview.

ALICE STEWART, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR MIKE HUCKABEE CAMPAIGN: First of all, start off by saying, Ron Fournier is a good friend of mine. But he does use colorful words lately in his description of Governor Huckabee. In terms of that comment, the governor strongly believes every word that he said when he was talking about the problems with the Iran deal and the consequences it has for America but for Israel as well, which is our greatest ally.

[19:21:18] Unfortunately, President Obama does not acknowledge that. But what he's going to do tonight on the stage, he's going to take every precious moment he has to talk about his views for the future, his plans for this country. He has been traveling around the country talking with people in Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina about what's important to them, issues like jobs and the economy, the bad foreign policy infrastructure we currently have. And these are the things that he's going to talk about. There's valuable precious time they have on the stage. And all these candidates realize, you are not going to win a campaign on the debate stage, but you sure can lose it.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Sure.

STEWART: So, they're going to be very cautious in how they display their views tonight.

BOLDUAN: Alice, who is a bigger target for your candidate? He's fourth in the polls right now. Is his bigger target Donald Trump or is his bigger target Jeb Bush? STEWART: He is not looking at it from that perspective. He is

looking at it from the standpoint, this is an opportunity for him to get out there and talk about what people are concerned with, jobs and the economy. He's not going to waste any time with the other candidates in terms of attacking them. That's not his nature. That's not what got him on the stage in the first place. He is there to talk about Mike Huckabee and his policies and what the American people out there are asking him to do and that's talk about jobs and the economy, safety and security of our country, immigration reform and also the current problems with this disgusting Planned Parenthood videos and defunding Planned Parenthood.

BOLDUAN: Well, it sounds like Governor Huckabee is going to play nice. Donald Trump says, he's going to play nice. Jeb Bush is going to play nice. This debate is not going to be any fun. But actually, let's just see what happens. Great to see you all. Thanks so much.

LORD: Thanks, Kate.

NAVARRO: It cannot be any less fun than the first debate. That was the most humorless hour and a half of my life recently.

BOLDUAN: Well, we're going to see what you say about this next one. Thanks, guys. Great to see you.

OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump making a dramatic entrance just hours before the first big debate. Is tonight the night Trump's non-answers come to an end?

And Hillary Clinton slammed by republican candidates in tonight's first debate. My guest, a top democrat. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, she's going to fire back.


[19:27:16] BOLDUAN: Just hours before the first republican debate of this 2016 election, Donald Trump made a dramatic entrance. He and his wife Melania stepped off their private jet in Cleveland. Some might say that they were going for a presidential-like arrival. His daughter Ivanka posted this picture on Instagram showing the frontrunner preparing for the event where he says he will be a target.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald, what's it like to have the bullseye on you tonight?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have got the bullseye. There's no question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your greatest fear tonight sir?

TRUMP: I have no fear.


BOLDUAN: No fear he says. But will he be more specific about his policies than he has been over the course of his campaign so far?

Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.


JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump arriving in Cleveland today with a swagger in his step for the first presidential debate of the season. And his career.

TRUMP: I have been preparing all my life.

ZELENY: On the campaign trail for only 52 days, he is driving the republican race. We have heard Trump talk tough.

TRUMP: We're tired of being pushed around, kicked around and acting and being led by stupid people.

ZELENY: Seldom going a day without giving an interview. But his confident answers are usually missing one thing, specifics. Whether it's building a wall at the U.S. Mexico border.

TRUMP: Mexico will pay for the wall. I will make sure it gets done properly.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST, "THE O'REILLY FACTOR": But how? What are you going to do to Nieto? What are you going to say to him?

TRUMP: I'm going to say, Mexico, guess what, this is not going to continue. You are going to pay for the wall. I have said they will pay for the wall and they will pay for the wall.

They're not sending their best --

ZELENY: Or Mexico sending dangerous immigrants over the border.

TRUMP: Mexico pushes back people across the border that are criminals, that are drug dealers.

ZELENY: A certain statement with little follow-up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you seen any evidence here to confirm your fears about Mexico sending criminals across the border?

TRUMP: Yes, I have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What evidence specifically have you seen?

TRUMP: We will be showing you the evidence.



ZELENY: Or ObamaCare.

TRUMP: Repeal and replace with something terrific. ZELENY: Something terrific but just what exactly has so far been

left to the imagination.

TRUMP: That is not a big a deal.

ZELENY: But tonight, as Trump takes center stage, he could be pinned down by debate moderators or his rivals. Rand Paul says he is ready to rumble.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like to mix it up. So my staff is all saying, oh no, we need to be cautious. And I'm like, I like to mix it up. So, I plan on getting into it with the other candidates.

ZELENY: The question is whether it's with Trump or someone else. Rudy Giuliani, the early leader of the PAC in the 2008 campaign, said Trump's elusive answers may be enough for now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of stuff Ronald Reagan said didn't sound realistic. I think Americans are thirsting for somebody who is tough.


ZELENY: Ronald Reagan, of course, was a two-term California government who already had a record in office when he ran for president. Trump's appeal is rooted in his success as a businessman and his bravado that he's not a politician. So far, that's worked for Trump. He'll have to get more specific eventually.

But, Kate, don't look for any deep policy answers in tonight's debate. Responses are limited to about 60 seconds.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Exactly. They may only scratch the surface.

Jeff, thank you so much.

So, how do you handle a debate as a moderator?

Let's talk to two people who know how do that. Joining me OUTFRONT, chief political analyst Gloria Borger. She helped moderate Democratic presidential debate in 2004. And political analyst and author Jeff Greenfield, he helped moderate Republican and Democratic debates in 2000 and 2004.

Great to see you both.

So, Gloria, he is not -- of course, we're talking about Trump right now. He is not known for giving specifics. So, how do you nail down a Donald Trump in a debate like this?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, let me say the normal rules don't seem to apply to Donald Trump but they do apply to the other candidates. So, you attack Donald Trump at your own risk. I think what happened earlier this evening is very instructive.

Carly Fiorina, who did very well as you have been saying in the first debate, and Rick Perry decided when asked about Donald Trump that they would take him on from the right. That they -- you know, Carly Fiorina made the point, he changed his mind on healthcare, he's changed his mind on amnesty, he's changed his mind on abortion. And so, you know, they are attacking him from the right saying he is not conservative enough.

I guarantee you the moderators who are all good journalists are going to try and get into some of these questions about Donald Trump. I think it will be up to them, once they do it, some of the other candidates like Rand Paul as Jeff's piece showed might get into it with him.

BOLDUAN: Jeff, you have written some great stuff about all of this. I mean, does Donald Trump -- Gloria is talking about they took him on his record but also on the issue of specifics, does he need to get specific? Because to the point of the piece that you have written, voters don't seem to care so far.

JEFF GREENFIELD, POLITICAL ANALYST AND AUTHOR: No. I think Mark Cuban nailed it, the reality show star of his own, saying it doesn't matter what he says. It has nothing do with this. This is an unusual candidate.

Therefore, the normal kind of a debate question, the kind of question that Tim Russert and Ted Koppel excelled at, where you take away the tapes they have stored in their heads, and you said, we know you said X, but what about Y and Z, it's irrelevant.

In Donald Trump's case, it's a different question I like in general, which is not a gotcha, not a boxers and brief question, but a question that tries to reveal character like, when were you most afraid? What did you learn from it, is an interesting question.

In Trump's case, if the moderators have the stones, one question might be, you valued your name -- you valued your brand at $3 billion, at least four of the enterprises that you put your name on went belly up. When they did, you said had you nothing to do with them. Can't we at least learn that you overrate the value of your name?

Now, that's provocative. It will give us a chance to see how Donald Trump deals with that kind of question.

BOLDUAN: And, Chris -- Jeff, Chris Wallace, one of tonight's moderators, he's even acknowledged that part of tonight is the Donald Trump show. Can they avoid that? And I guess the question is, is it even a bad thing?

GREENFIELD: As I said, what makes this one interesting -- by the way, I generally think to overstate the importance of the debate six months before the first Iowa caucuses -- you know, we don't want to -- defining moments, iconic moments, no. But Trump does make it different because he is such an unusual candidate. That's why I think there's no way to deal with him the way you would deal with a conventional candidate.

He has made sure, to the surprise of most of us certainly including myself, that the normal political rules, the normal political liabilities that could hurt a candidate, they just don't apply to him.

BORGER: And, you know, here is the other thing. If the moderators do try and take him on, Donald Trump will do what lots of candidates do. It works for them. Which is -- he has done in this campaign so far is take on the press.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

BORGER: In a Republican primary, there is nothing wrong with taking on the press. That clearly works for you. And, you know, I guarantee you --

GREENFIELD: As Newt Gingrich showed us, yes.

BORGER: And Newt right, I guarantee you, he'll get shoved into a -- if he gets -- feels like he gets shoved into a corner, he will lash out at whoever is asking the question. And that will work.

You know, I think -- I talked with campaigns and they have these one-liners somewhere in their pockets kind of with humor to try and deflect Donald Trump a little bit. They're a little afraid of going after him, because they don't want to make this about Donald Trump, because this is their moment to introduce themselves to the American public and show how they are not Donald Trump.

[19:35:10] We'll see what Rand Paul does in the end. I'm curious about it.

And, by the way, look out for Mike Huckabee. He was great in 2008. He could kind of up-end this, because he's the only one of the ten who is actually been on a presidential debate stage before.

BOLDUAN: Yes, we will see. We will absolutely see in just a few short minutes. Guys, thank you so much.


BOLDUAN: Of course.

OUTFRONT next, the schedule is set for the Democratic debates now. Does it actually help Hillary Clinton how it's set up?

And the search for MH370. New debris, windows and seats discovered in the Indian Ocean. Are they also from the missing plane?


BOLDUAN: The candidates at tonight's second tier debate, they were asked to give two words to describe Hillary Clinton. And they did not hold back.


GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Divisive and with no vision. No vision at all.

[19:40:01] CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not trustworthy. No accomplishment.

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Secretive and untrustworthy.

RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's go with three. Good at e-mail.

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R-LA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Socialist and government dependent.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not the change we need at a time we need it.

JIM GILMORE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Professional politician that can't be trusted.



And when the top 10 GOP candidates take the stage tonight, they're not likely going easy on her, of course. She won't be able to fight back in a Democratic debate until October 13th. That's when CNN will hold the first of six Democratic primary debates.

OUTFRONT tonight, the DNC chair, Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida.

Congresswoman, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming in.

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL), DNC CHAIR: Thanks to you, Kate. Good to be with you.

BOLDUAN: In this first debate, Hillary Clinton, you saw it, you heard it, she was a key target. And we haven't even gotten to the main event tonight.

How is she going to push back against this onslaught that is clearly only beginning?

SCHULTZ: Well, you know, whether it's secretary Clinton or any of our presidential candidates, at the end of this process, I'm confident that because of the really clear contrast between any of our candidates and the entire pack of 17 Republican candidates, the American people are going to support our party's nominee because they will fight for the middle class. They will make sure that whether it's fighting for an increase in the minimum wage or equal pay for equal work or expanding access to quality affordable healthcare, compared to all of the Republicans who support repealing the Affordable Care Act and taking aware healthcare from 16 million Americans or focusing on tax cuts for the wealthiest and most fortunate Americans.

That contrast is clear. It was clear in 2012. And that's why the American people supported Barack Obama's re-election and they will support our party's nominee next November.

BOLDUAN: So far in the campaign trail, it has been clear that Hillary Clinton has been hitting Jeb Bush and taking it to him at every opportunity. But, Donald Trump, as you know, he is the frontrunner in the Republican Party right now, in the Republican primary. Why not take him on instead?

SCHULTZ: Well, as you can see, even the happy hour debate candidates couldn't avoid Donald Trump. This is really going to be the Republican primary debate starring Donald Trump.

Look at Jeb Bush specifically. He has a lot at stake tonight. I mean, he's been trying to downplay expectations. Some people are saying that he hasn't been in a campaign in a long time.

But remember, he has got his father and his brother's debate consultants. He has debated no less than 25 times. He has to bring it tonight. If he doesn't, and Donald Trump who is ahead by double digits, who has never debated -- you know, that's going to say a lot about the prospects for his candidacy to say nothing of the fact that he is dramatically out of step, like the rest of the field, with the priorities of the people who are going to go to the polls and vote.

BOLDUAN: But, Congresswoman, is it just understood that Hillary Clinton thinks that Jeb Bush is who she will take on, not Donald Trump? Why not take on Donald Trump?

SCHULTZ: You know, I know Hillary Clinton and all of our candidates are focused on making sure that people understand where her priorities are, where Democratic values are and drawing a contrast.

Like I said, Democrats are for increasing the minimum wage. Republicans are opposed. Democrats -- any of our candidates are for equal pay for equal work.

Republicans, like Jeb Bush, you know, have dismissed it. Jeb Bush didn't know what the Paycheck Fairness Act was. You have guys like Chris Christie who actually vetoed equal pay legislation.

So, when it comes to the economics, middle class economics that are going to be what this election turns on, the contrast could not be more clear. It will be on full display tonight.

BOLDUAN: Let me ask you about the Democratic debates. You announced the dates for the six debates today.


BOLDUAN: For comparison, Republicans, they're holding at least nine in the cycle. I bring that up only because one of your candidates, Martin O'Malley, is not happy about the debates for the Democratic primary. His top strategist says this is like facilitating a coronation. Of course, he is talking about Hillary Clinton. How do you respond to that?

SCHULTZ: Well, we're really thrilled that Martin O'Malley and all five of our Democratic candidates for president of the United States are going to be participating in our six DNC-sanctioned debates. We believe that that will give them an opportunity to really demonstrate their policy positions and contrast one another. And there will be lots of other opportunities where I'm confident there will be other candidate forums where we will have an opportunity -- there already have been some. We will have all the candidates at our DNC summer meeting in Minneapolis at the end of August.

So, there will be plenty of opportunity over the next 18 months, and particularly leading up to when we have our convention in July for them to showcase their own policy positions.

BOLDUAN: And we will note, CNN will be there, because we're hosting that first debate. You know we will be there, Congresswoman.

SCHULTZ: That's right. You sure are. Right out of the gate. We're looking forward to it.

BOLDUAN: We are, too. Thank you so much. Great to see you.

SCHULTZ: Thanks, Kate. You too.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, more debris washes up on Reunion Island, pieces of windows, pieces of seats.

[19:45:05] Are they from MH370?

And Jeanne Moos with Jon Stewart taking a few final moments tonight.


BOLDUAN: Tonight, potential new and critical clues into the disappearance of Flight MH370. Investigators are right now examining new pieces of debris that include a possible seat cushion and a piece of window. The items were discovered on the same island where Malaysia confirms it found the missing jet's wing flap. Also tonight, France is just hours away from launching new crews to search for debris by air and by sea.


SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As investigators wrap up their second full day in Toulouse, France, today reports of chilling new discoveries -- seat cushions, pieces of windows and aluminum material, the Malaysian government says all washed up on the same shore on Reunion Island where that large wing part was found.

DATUK SERI LIOW TIONG LAI, MALAYSIAN TRANSPORT MINISTER: There are many items collected and they are sent to the authority over at (INAUDIBLE). But that I cannot confirm is the MH370. All of these need to be verified. NAJIB RAZAK, MALAYSIAN PRIME MINISTER: We now have physical


SERFATY: The Malaysian prime minister says the wing part or flaperon is from MH370. But French investigators inspecting the parts have yet to confirm with certainty it belongs to the missing plane.

The mixed messages represent another public tug-of-war between officials, which has set off the families of the missing victims.

[19:50:08] Desperate for answers, today, they stormed into the Malaysia Airlines office in Beijing, demanding to know the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We will go to the site to check it out by ourselves. We don't believe any of their words which are all lies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, we lack a lot of confidence in the Malaysian government. Whatever they say, we feel they rushed it.

SERFATY: In the lab, French analysts continue to focus in on the flaperon, using equipment like these high-powered microscopes to analyze paint chips and metal fatigue. Doing everything they can to find out for sure if the piece is from MH370. And maybe even learn what happened to the doomed plane in its final moments.


SERFATY: And even more mixed messages coming in tonight. The head of Australia's safety board today questioned whether any additional debris beyond that flaperon was found at all. He says at this stage, nothing has been retrieved and nothing confirmed to be associated with the plane, Kate, let alone, MH370.

BOLDUAN: Mixed messages for sure, we are getting from all of the officials. And the investigation continues. Sunlen, thanks so much.

OUTFRONT with me now, David Gallo, the director of special projects at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

So, David, you heard, Sunlen, kind of laying, they have two pieces of debris, obviously, they need to find out if they're MH370.

I want to throw up the, new drift models we have been talking about. They show how the debris could have been blown, been drifting due to wind and ocean currents. And it really shows, viewers could see anywhere in the southern Indian Ocean.

Do you think it is possible that these items, part of a window and seat, do you think they're from the missing plane?

DAVID GALLO, WOODS HOLE OCEANOGRAPHIC INSTITUTION: It's possible. But you know it is going to take some analysis. I don't know why Malaysia got so out in front of this to make that kind of a statement. Even though they said they can't confirm it is from MH370, it is still wound, drives those wounds deeper in the family and loved ones of the victims.

BOLDUAN: It is so true. You have the investigation of the flaperon, part of the exterior of the plane. Can you learn something different from items that might be from the inside of the plane like the seat cushion?

GALLO: Absolutely. I mean, not so much the cushions, but the -- maybe the window about how it might have come apart. But more importantly is how it drifted. These three thing thousands would look entirely differently, float entirely differently. And how did they end up coming to the same spot in the ocean. Normally, that doesn't happen like that over this much of time.

So, it will help with the drift models a tiny bit. So, we'll have to wait and see as to French --

BOLDUAN: Fascinating, because you speak with a lot of experience here, Air France Flight 447, how things drifted there. That's a great point about the flaperon, a huge -- a much larger piece looking at the shape of a cushion or a window -- or piece of a window. What do you think would explain that?

GALLO: Right.

It beats me, Kate. It's one of the things, the drift modelers would have off to tell us how that is even possible. But my understanding always is that depending on how these things sit in the -- in the water, depends on where they'll end up.

BOLDUAN: And we will see. The investigation continues as the families continue to wait.

David, thank you so much.

GALLO: You're welcome, Kate. Bye-bye.

BOLDUAN: Bye-bye.

OUTFRONT next: as he wraps up "The Daily Show", Jeanne Moos has a look at the many faces of Jon Stewart.


[19:57:58] BOLDUAN: Tonight, Jon Stewart signs off "The Daily Show" for the last time. Jeanne Moos shows us what we will miss the most.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Who needs actual language when comedian has so much body language?

These are the faces of Jon Stewart that many of us will miss.


MOOS: From stroking his chin to -- placing a finger to his lips, a la Dr. Evil. And of course --

STEWART: Shut up!

MOOS: Exploding in false outrage for instance how Donald Trump eats pizza.

STEWART: Are you eating it with a fork! A (EXPLETIVE DELETED) fork?

MOOS: But the face we'll really miss is the signature stare.

The stare that was there coming out of the video.

Sometimes startled stare that preceded the joke or replaced it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wonder if suburban women were turned off --

MOOS: OK. Not everyone is smitten by Stewart's signature stare. Tweeted one critic, "Mugger of faces, was never funny, #boring."

STEVEN CROWDER, FILMMAKER: Plus, he makes funny face sews we know when to laugh. Ha-ha-ha.

MOOS: Stewart himself said the other day the staff had a running joke he could do the show without saying anything.

STEWART: That I could just make stupid faces and grunt.

MOOS: That's what he did for more than 3:30 minutes.

Stewart came face to face with his own face. When actress Melissa McCarthy showed up in a kimono. Plastered with Stewart's mug.

STEWART: I am all over you like a cheap suit.

MOOS: Jon Stewart and his mannerisms are going out with a bang. Make that a --

STEWART: Boom! Boom! Boom!

MOOS: Jeanne Moos --


MOOS: -- CNN --

STEWART: Boom! Boom!

MOOS: -- New York.


BOLDUAN: You can't top it. Why would I try?

Thanks for joining us, everybody.

"AC360" starts right now.