Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Conservative Event Disinvites Donald Trump; Terror Group Shifting Focus on to Mass Casualty Attacks; South Carolina Officer Shoots and Kills Unarmed White Teen; Trump Remains Front Runner Despite Controversial Comments; Marches Mark Michael Brown's Death; Aired 1-2p ET

Aired August 08, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And by the way, not in my opinion. In the opinion of hundreds of thousands of people on Twitter because it has been a brutal day. In one way a great day for FOX and another day, in the Twitter sphere it's been very bad because she's been very badly criticized.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR, CNN TONIGHT: Let's take a -- let's take a look at --

TRUMP: Hey, she's a lightweight. I could care less about her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Trump then tried to clarify his comments this morning by tweeting this, saying, quote, "You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever," and then in parenthesis nose. "Just got on with thought."

All right. Making the decision to disinvite Donald Trump from the event this evening in Atlantic, Erick Erickson, the head of the RedState.com, which is hosting the conservative gathering, spoke out on his side of the story this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERICK ERICKSON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, REDSTATE.COM: I disinvited Donald Trump.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

ERICKSON: Hang on. Just hang on. For those of you who haven't heard, you all deserve an explanation. I'm glad despite some of the comments that the Trump team made last night, I can honestly say this event was sold out before we even announced he was coming.

I've given Donald Trump a lot of latitude because he's not a professional politician. He's been a very blunt talker. I've said some dumb things in my life but I've apologized for them. I reached out to the Donald Trump campaign last night and said, is Mr. Trump willing to apologize or clarify that he wasn't suggesting that a national reporter who asked him a tough question was having her period?

And the campaign manager said Mr. Trump was talking about her bleeding out of her eyes. She was bleeding everywhere, all over Mr. Trump. I said that's -- the bleeding out of the eyes part wasn't the problem. It was what came after that. And the campaign manager refused to even knowledge that he had said that. And so I told him -- he asked me to send him an e-mail, I put the exact quote in the e-mail and I said, everyone myself included is interpreting it this way.

I think it was inappropriate. I really think it was inappropriate. I've got my wife here, I've got my daughter here, I've got 800 friends of mine here. It's a family friendly program and if he's not going to clarify that this isn't what he meant, I don't think I want him at my event. And --

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

ERICKSON: So the campaign manager called me back and said Mr. Trump had said whatever, he was trying to move the questions along, that she was bleeding out of her eyes or whatever, trying to get Don Lemon to move beyond or at least he meant whatever. And I asked him if he was going to clarify that publicly, they I said no. So I said I'm sorry, I would prefer Mr. Trump not come to the event.

Now immediately thereafter the Trump campaign promptly -- well, first of all, after we had reached out to them, before I'd even gotten involved, I was at dinner, our staff here reached out to the Trump campaign to ask if he had actually said this. And instead of responding to is they immediately sent out a press advisory that he was going to speak. So that was kind of an indicator.

So after all of this was over, Mr. Trump went on Twitter and said that I was a weak and pathetic leader, which is OK. I actually think it's really weak and pathetic to take a tough question from a journalist and assume she's having her period and that's why she asked you a tough question.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's talk more about this now. Let's bring in Mark Preston, our executive editor for CNN Politics who is live for us in Atlanta, at the event today.

So help us understand what we were hearing in the audience. When he first said that Donald Trump was being disinvited. You heard applause but you also maybe heard some boos. Is that right? I mean, was there, you know, some support and opposition, you know, right there in the audience?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Yes, I that you're right, Fred. I mean, overall Erick Erickson has received the support of the attendees here at Red State for his decision to disinvite Donald Trump. There are people here that are upset, though, that Mr. Trump was asked not to come and participate in this event. By and large, though, this is an event now that has been overshadowed

by Donald Trump. Yet another day where Donald Trump has overshadowed the whole race for the Republican presidential nomination. In many ways frustrating for the other candidates who are trying to get their message out. But we have heard different opinions here today about Donald Trump being disinvited. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump's comments towards Megyn Kelly were just totally reprehensible. There's no room in that, there's no room for a candidate like that to become president of the United States. It's just -- you know, I think he's taken himself out of the race.

[13:05:16] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that he should not have been disinvited, but Erick Erickson had a right to, it's his event and he chose not to have him tonight. A lot of people are disappointed. And not because they're Trump fans. They're Trump fans of his outspokenness. They're not Trump fans as far as looking at him as a really serious presidential candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PRESTON: And I think that's an important point that the last woman made right there. There are folk in the Republican Party, certainly in the conservative movement, who think that Donald Trump has done a service to the race and the fact that he's been able to push issues that they feel are important to the forefront, primarily immigration. So we've heard from the folks here at Red State, these conservative activists. These very influential conservative activists who come across -- from across the country, here to Atlanta to talk politics and policies.

But we're also hearing from the presidential candidates, the rivals of Donald Trump. We've seen Carly Fiorina, we've heard George Pataki, we've heard Mike Huckabee, we've heard others including John Kasich who just put a statement out, the Ohio governor. Let's me just read you a quick thing that John Kasich said.

"Everyone deserves respect and dignity whether they agree with you or not. You don't tear people down just because they disagree with you or stand up to you or question you."

So again, Fredricka, another day on the campaign trail. The race in the Republican presidential nomination, Donald Trump is dominating the headlines.

WHITFIELD: Very fascinating stuff and still dominating even though he's been disinvited there and dominating conversation as well.

All right. Thanks so much, Mark Preston.

All right. Of course the next time we will see as many of the Republican presidential candidates at once on television and on stage will be the debate on CNN next month, Wednesday, September 16th, and the following month CNN hosts the first Democratic presidential debate. And you can watch all of that right here on Tuesday, October 13th.

All right. So let's talk more about what is or isn't happening on the campaign trail right now. Let's bring in Republican strategist Liz Mair, also Karen Agness, founder of the Network of Enlightened Women, and Rachel Campos-Duffy who is a national spokesperson for the LIBRE Initiative.

All right. Good to see all of you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for having us.

WHITFIELD: OK. So, Liz, let me -- let me go to you first. The fact that RedState.com has disinvited Donald Trump this evening, Erick Erickson, who's had his own history with speaking inappropriately as it pertains to women, he says that Donald Trump, his words are just not appropriate and he should apologize and so thereby he's disinvited.

So, Liz, in your view, is that the right thing to do? Does this only call more attention to it? How do you interpret all of this?

LIZ MAIR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it's 100 percent the right thing to do. And I absolutely commend Erick for having the guts to do it. Frankly I think that the move was extremely well received here. I was in the ballroom this morning when Erick made the announcement that this is what was happening. I only really heard two people who were loudly were booing. One was I believe the gentleman who was interviewed and you showed a clip of him. Another was a lady behind me who was booing rather loudly.

Everybody else seemed to be very enthusiastic about the move. I think people recognize that Donald Trump has crossed a line. He's been crossing multiple lines. This may be the final straw for a lot of people at this gathering. And let's bear in mind, these are 800 people who come from all around the country who donate to candidates, who volunteer their time, they really are the grassroots of the Republican Party, and if they're not happy about it, he's got a problem.

WHITFIELD: OK. And meantime, Republican presidential hopeful Carly Fiorina is also there and she tweeted this, saying, quote, "Mr. Trump, there is no excuse."

So, you know, Karen, while other candidates might be happy that he is not, you know, at this event, look who is still, you know, dominating. In fact this is what, you know, Donald Trump had to say about Carly Fiorina last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She ran for senator against Barbara Boxer in California and she lost in a landslide. And I'm not knocking her. I couldn't care less. She's not going to win. OK. I'm going to say she's glib. So what she's glib? It takes a lot more than being glib. But she's not going to win. But, you know, she had fired and she ran for office and she lost in a landslide. You know, I don't see that as being necessarily great credentials.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, Karen, you know, he minces no words, he's, you know, critical out loud. He thinks out loud, you know, about anyone and all things. How does this change the dynamic perhaps among the candidates when they do find themselves on the same stage?

KAREN AGNESS, FOUNDER, THE NETWORK OF ENLIGHTENED WOMEN: Well, I was glad to see Carly Fiorina come out strong against him and be the first one to tweet against his comments. They were rude, they were inappropriate.

[13:10:03] And we have to remember things like the Red State gathering, one of the main points of it is to give the grassroots the opportunity to hear these different candidates. So I was glad to see them disinvite him, so now people don't give him that opportunity to have that national stage. And I think as more people learn about Trump and hear comments like this, I'm confident that they are going to find other candidates to support.

WHITFIELD: And, you know, Rachel, during the night of the debate there was a lot of criticism, you know, echoed by people who said, you know what, the other candidates missed an opportunity to be critical of what Donald Trump had to say at the very top. Carly Fiorina was not on, you know, stage that night but today she came out, you know, guns a blazing by way of Twitter.

So does this now give, in your view, kind of impetus for other candidates to be a little bit more critical of Donald Trump as opposed to, you know, being relatively silent? Yes, we heard from, you know, Huckabee today, and Pataki as well. But do you see that there is going to be I guess a greater incentive for other candidates to comment or even criticize their opponent Donald Trump?

RACHEL CAMPOS-DUFFY, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR THE LIBRE INITIATIVE: Sure. Carly came out strong but I think some others were a little more cautious. I think what you have to look at here is that there's a danger, right? I mean, I think Erick did the right thing but the danger is in making the point for Trump. So he said in the speech I don't have time for political correctness. And this country doesn't have time for political correctness. And it was a winner line.

The crowd erupted and a lot conservatives feel like they are muzzled, that if they have the wrong position they might lose their job. If they have the wrong position on a particular issue. A lot of conservative white men feel like they can't say certain things so he resonates with them in that regard.

What I think he did here, though, is he showed that he is really a newbie to the conservative movement because Rosie O'Donnell is fair game and will get you a loud -- reply from the crowd if you diss her, she's red meat material. Megyn Kelly is a darling of the conservative movement. Every guy wants to date her who's a conservative and every conservative mom wants their daughter to be like her. So he really stepped on it, and I think that he is getting the backlash on the love that a lot of conservatives have, especially conservative women. for Megyn Kelly.

WHITFIELD: And Liz?

MAIR: Yes, I generally agree with that. I mean, the fact of the matter is, in many respects, I think when Rachel says that Donald Trump is a newbie to the conservative movement, that's true when you look at his policy positions. But it's also true when you look at generally what his perceptions are as to what demeanor will be tolerated.

But I would just make a couple of interesting points. I think perhaps in him responding to Carly Fiorina, he may be doing her a favor by raising her profile. I think if people actually go and look at that race, I consulted on that race, in actual fact Meg Whitman lost by much more than we did, even though Carly was the more conservative candidate. So I think that's actually something that can be very appealing to a lot of conservatives taking a look.

And I think Carly probably appreciates Donald Trump throwing her name out there and raising her name ID. In addition to that I think, you know, people are now sufficiently tired of Trump here and sufficiently convinced that he's not one of them and he's not a conservative, with his support for socialized medicine, which he went on the record about yet again in the debate. And I think now people are really looking forward to hearing from Jeb Bush and Scott Walker later today, and people are moving on.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, Karen, do you believe that people are moving on? I mean, what if his poll numbers, you know, don't take a hit as some are believing it might, you know, as a result of these comments and, you know, his performance during the debate? Well, what if he remains a constant, dominating the other candidates?

AGNESS: Well, we have to remember, first, the poll numbers we're looking at right now are national polls. And that's not how our primary works. Right? It's going to matter how his numbers are in those primary states. And secondly we're talking early on in the election cycle. I heard Carly Fiorina say that only 40 percent of Republicans even knew her name before the debate. Right now it's a celebrity contest. So it's no surprise that Donald Trump's name ID and popularity is high.

CAMPOS-DUFFY: I would just add that, you know, conservatives feel like they were handed a bad rap on the last election. They got unfairly smeared on the war on women and they are not going to let this happen again. And I think that's why Erick Erickson and some of these power players that have influence over the grassroots base that's weighing right now, that's why they want to put a stamp on it.

And that's also why they like Carly Fiorina. Carly Fiorina is a woman. There are certain things she can do and say against Hillary Clinton that the rest of the guys can't. And I tell you what, when Carly Fiorina says, hey, don't you want to see a debate with me and Hillary Clinton? The base of the Republican Party says heck, yes. We want to see it because they know it will be about issues and she won't be able to play the woman card on that one.

WHITFIELD: All right. Liz Mair, Karen Agness, Rachel Campos-Duffy, thanks to all of you. Appreciate it.

And be sure to watch CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER" tomorrow, 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern Time. Jake sits down with Republican candidate Carly Fiorina and Ohio Governor John Kasich.

[13:15:07] And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. News now of a string of insurgent attacks in Afghanistan. A U.S. soldier is among more than 50 killed. Hundreds more were injured. The U.S. State Department is condemning the strike which comes just days after a U.S. intelligence warning that ISIS is seeking the capability to inflict mass casualty attacks in the United States.

Joining us right now from New York former FBI special agent Jonathan Gilliam, also a former police officer and Navy SEAL, and via Skype from Portland, Oregon, retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

All right, Col. Francona, good to see you again. And Jonathan as well.

Let me begin with you, Colonel. So what do you make of this apparent strategy shift?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, I think it's not just a shift. I think it's an addition. I think that we're going to continue to see ISIS going its lone wolf outreach trying to get people to do things inside the United States. They're also adding on additional capabilities. Now that they own space, they own territory, they're setting up the training camps. They want to train people to do the sorts of things that al Qaeda did, that Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is doing right now. They want to achieve that capability, they want to inflict these mass casualties. They want to replace al Qaeda as the major threat to the United States.

WHITFIELD: And, Jonathan, you know, will the intelligence and military communities be able to make a shift to address this?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, they should be able to. And I always love being on with the colonel because we see eye- to-eye on all this stuff. And the reality is we're not seeing anything new. The problem is that we are focused, so focused heavily on individual groups, and not this ideology. It's one ideology. It doesn't matter if it's al Qaeda or ISIS.

[13:20:00] And I say this over and over again. We have to start realizing. There's not going to be a new attack that hasn't been done before in some form or fashion, whether it's -- you know, recruiting an operative from inside the United States or trying to, you know, hijack a plane to crash into a building. Whether it's a big attack or small attack, it's been done before, we need to start looking at this as an ideology so we're not surprised by these attacks. It's all possible mow.

WHITFIELD: OK. And now let's talk about strategies as we know it or as the use of resources particularly when we talk about Turkey and the access of the air bases. How might that assist U.S. military operations?

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Colonel, yes. I'm looking at you and forgetting to even say your name.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: Sorry about that, Colonel.

FRANCONA: I think access to the Turkish bases could be a real change in the dynamic of the air campaign. Right now our pilots are having to fly 800 to 1,000 miles just to get to the target area. Once we get operations up and running in Incirlik and we don't have the manned aircraft there yet, but when we do, we'll be only minutes away from the targets. Sixty miles from the border is where their base is. So it will really change our ability to inflict a lot more air power into northern Syria, into northern Iraq.

The problem will be is how do we develop the targets for that. So we're going to have to have continued surveillance, more drone operations and all that. But this could be -- and I hate to use the term, Jon Stewart didn't like my use of it, but game-changer.

WHITFIELD: And I hate to inject a little politics, but it is the topic of the day, gentlemen. So last night our own Don Lemon asked one of the Republican contenders, Donald Trump, about how he would handle ISIS and the war in Iraq. And Trump said back in 2004, he knew that invading Iraq was not the answer. And this is what else he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Just like I have great vision by saying in 2004 don't go into Iraq. If you look at -- if you look at the papers back in those days, OK, Reuters, you'll see that -- and that's unlike any other candidates. I am the most militaristic person. I would create military so strong. But we shouldn't have used it in Iraq because we could destabilize the Middle East, which is exactly what I said would happen, and Iran will take over Iraq and ISIS will take over the oil and, you know, lots of things are going to happen that are very bad after spending trillions in lives and wounded warriors and everything else. So you know, you have to have vision.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: All right. So, Colonel, you first, do you see a relationship between Iraq and Iran as he puts it in terms of being a threat?

FRANCONA: Well, I think that Iran has emerged the winner here. Clearly they are the rising star in the Middle East. They're hegemony is going to spread throughout the region. This nuclear arms deal plays right into that plan. If you look at what's happened, you've got Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon all in their spear of influence, and now we see it in the span of it in Yemen. Yes, Iran is on the rise, but did we see that in 2004? Maybe or maybe not.

WHITFIELD: OK, Jonathan.

GILLIAM: Well, I think whenever you inject politics into war fighting, you get -- this is -- we're doing with the war on terror is exactly what we did with the war on drugs. We are not fighting a war, we are fighting individual cartels and individual groups. When you look at Iran versus ISIS or al Qaeda, you know, you do have the Sunni- Shia split. But as soon as Iran gets a nuclear weapon, anybody that thinks that they won't use that as the largest terror attack in history, they're kidding themselves.

And I think the greatest thing that could ever happen as far as this goes is if one of these two groups, the Sunnis and the Shias, get a foothold on the other one, say Iran gets a nuclear weapon, the other one, this thousand-year-old, you know, break between these fundamental Islamic mindsets, if that ever came back together, it's -- we're in a world war like we've never seen before. That's my biggest fear.

WHITFIELD: All right. OK. Jonathan Gilliam, Colonel Rick Francona, thanks to both of you gentlemen, appreciate it.

FRANCONA: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:56] WHITFIELD: A South Carolina family says the police shooting of their unarmed teenage son was not warranted. And they believe the case has escaped the national headlines because their son is white.

Nick Valencia has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): July 26th, 2015, 19-year-old Zachary Hammond is on a date with 23-year-old Tori Morton who is the target of a drug sting. When they pull into a Hardy's parking lot, police are waiting.

According to the police report, Hammond, who was driving, attempted to strike an officer with his vehicle during the attempted arrest. He's shot twice. He dies at the scene. CHIEF JOHN COVINGTON, SENECA POLICE: It is a horrible situation. I

mean, you get put in a predicament sometimes. You know when you sign up to be a police officer that that potential is there during your career that you might have to use deadly force.

VALENCIA: The Seneca police chief says his officer is a victim, too.

ERIC BLAND, ATTORNEY FOR ZACHARY HAMMOND'S FAMILY: A victim of attempted murder, that's what the police chief says.

PAUL HAMMOND, VICTIM'S FATHER: I have a hard time believing it when my son is no longer here.

ANGIE HAMMOND, VICTIM'S MOTHER: That he is the victim.

VALENCIA: The Hammonds say police have not given them answers. So they went looking for their own. An independent autopsy they conducted shows their son was shot from behind and at close range. The family attorney adds the results show the car was stopped at the time of the shooting.

A. HAMMOND: It's been very hard. Not only are we grieving that our son is gone, we don't know why it happened or what happened. And we're just trying to find answers.

VALENCIA: Lieutenant Mark Tiller, the officer involved in the shooting, is a 10-year veteran and has no history of getting in trouble. In a statement, Tiller's attorney put the blame on the 19- year-old Hammond. "In order to stop the continuing threat to himself and the general public, two shots were fired by Lieutenant Tiller in quick secession. If not for Lieutenant Tiller's quick reflexes and his ability to push off of the car, Lieutenant Tiller would have easily been run over by Mr. Hammond."

On Friday, Hammond supporters held a vigil in hopes that attention to his killing will bring them answers from police.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[13:30:06] WHITFIELD: All right. That was Nick Valencia reporting.

All right. Still ahead, Donald Trump on running as a third party candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm leading as a Republican. That's what my choice is. And if I'm treated fairly and with respect --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll talk to our panel about whether Trump wants more respect than he is willing to give.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Mortgage rates inched up this week. Have a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We're tracking the fallout from Donald Trump's latest controversial comments. The Republican presidential candidate is getting heat after describing to CNN's Don Lemon how he was treated by FOX anchor Megyn Kelly during this week's Republican primary debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. And, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her -- wherever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. That comment got him dumped from the RedState.com conservative political gathering in Atlanta tonight. Trump's political opponents have also been critical of his comments including GOP rival Carly Fiorina who said simply, quote, "There is no excuse."

Joining me right now is CNN political commentator Ross Douthat and CNN contributor Bakari Sellers, he is a former state representative in South Carolina.

[13:35:04] All right, good to see both of you.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: All right. So here we go again. Trump becoming the story and not necessarily any proposed policies or the Republican Party as a whole or even the other candidates in the race, you know, for the White House, so he is still leading the polls as far as we can see.

So, Ross, will these latest comments hurt him or is it just instep with the Donald Trump that we have been seeing on the campaign trail?

ROSS DOUTHAT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, it depends what you mean by hurt him, right? I mean, Trump is not --

WHITFIELD: In terms of his popularity and his --

DOUTHAT: Trump is -- Trump is not going to be the Republican nominee. There's never been a universe in which Donald Trump was going to be the Republican nominee. So the only question is basically how long does it take him to -- sorry, terrible choice of words.

WHITFIELD: Oh boy.

DOUTHAT: To -- yes. That's -- there's a clip for you.

WHITFIELD: I get it real quick. DOUTHAT: How long does it take for him to slowly sink from where he

is now. He's been at low 20s in the polls down to the 10 percent or so of the primary electorate who might vote for him just because there's always 10 percent of the electorate who would vote for, you know, any kind of ridiculous (INAUDIBLE) figure.

And I imagine that this speeds that process up a little bit. I think it puts -- I think what you saw at RedState, I think you'll see more pressure to exclude Trump sort of institutionally within the part. I bet there are people in the party --

WHITFIELD: But then what's the interpretation when that happens, the exclusion, when the party has been, you know, really on a path of being more inclusive and then now you're going to exclude a candidate because he is fiery or he is unfiltered, he sometimes says offensive things?

DOUTHAT: Because he says extremely offensive things and he's not running a real campaign and he is saying -- I mean, I don't know, look, the Republican Party, it's a party. It's not -- you know, there's no constitutional guarantee of the right to appear on a debate stage in a Republican primary. So I think that, you know, yes, they'll -- when Trump is excluded he'll make a lot of -- you know, he's already put out a ridiculous statement about being excluded from RedState, he'll put out more ridiculous statements.

But over time I just think he'll be there sort of as this permanent side show. And the question being, how long does he find it fun to be that side show?

WHITFIELD: All right, Bakari, I want to, you know, get your sentiments on that. But first I also want to show this short exchange from the primary debate Thursday night. It wasn't openly directed at Donald Trump, but it did single him out when he answered the question about whether there would be a third party to consider here. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS DEBATE MODERATOR: Is there anyone on stage, and can I see hands, who is unwilling tonight to pledge your support to the eventual nominee of the Republican Party, and pledge to not run an independent campaign against that person?

Again, we're looking for you to raise your hand now, raise your hand now if you won't make that pledge tonight? Mr. Trump. So, Mr. Trump, to be clear you're standing on a Republican primary.

TRUMP: I fully understand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. So, Bakari, you know, he stands out once again even at the risk of being excluded. I mean, how do you interpret him on the campaign, his potential future and whether he continues to be a real threat. SELLERS: Well, that's a part of his appeal. Many people thought that

Donald Trump's comments about John McCain were going to sink him. And that didn't. It only propelled him to higher numbers.

I actually think that the Republican Party has a severe problem now, a Trump problem now, because even in Georgia and South Carolina he's not polling in the low 20s anymore. He's polling in the low 30s right now. And he's the front runner so for all of this talk about a third party candidacy, they need to deal with the fact that apparently Jeb Bush and Scott Walker and all the rest cannot beat Donald Trump. And that is sincere and serious problem for many of them.

WHITFIELD: OK. So -- yes.

SELLERS: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

WHITFIELD: No. Yes -- no, so really on that point then, for the other candidates then, you know, here we are talking about Donald Trump. I mean, everyone is talking about Donald Trump and we can't stop talking about him. You know, but the other candidates, it's killing them, you know, Ross. And so what can they do?

DOUTHAT: Yes. It's not --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: The other Republicans at this point, what can they do to upstage even if he steps in it?

DOUTHAT: I don't agree that it's killing them.

WHITFIELD: You don't?

DOUTHAT: I think -- I think actually a lot of Republican candidates had a very good night the other night. And you know, because of the Donald Trump factor that debate got huge ratings because lots and lots of people tuned in who wouldn't tune into a normal presidential debate. And they watched some of the candidates, Rubio, Kasich, a few others, have pretty good nights on stage. And I would expect -- I would expect candidates, those candidates, to see, you know, slight increases in their polling numbers and over time, again, the Trump phenomenon has been going on for about month, a month and a half now.

[13:40:17] And if I were -- you know, for candidates who are trying to compete with him directly, yes, Trump is a problem. But for candidates who are serious about winning the nomination, I think what they need do is stay on their game plan and use the attention that's being afforded to the primary debates to basically appear presidential.

WHITFIELD: OK.

DOUTHAT: And appear like people who could beat Hillary Clinton.

WHITFIELD: So, Bakari, last word on that quickly. Do you believe that, you know, Donald Trump is not necessarily upstaging everybody, but maybe even from the debates the other night there are others now who have won a bigger spotlight as a result of him?

SELLERS: Well, Reince and the rest of the RNC need to send Donald Trump a thank you card because 24 million Americans watched the debate that otherwise probably wouldn't watch if Donald Trump wasn't participating. It was a "Let's watch and see what Donald Trump may say." So that's definitely a plus. But, you know, the person who shined the best, and I think he's won Facebook, he's won Twitter and all social media is Marco Rubio. Had a great showing. He needs to thank Donald Trump that many people were there to watch.

But Trump is polling in the 30s. And with all these candidates, he doesn't need to get any higher than 20 to 25 percent to win one, two, three or four primaries. And if he starts rolling then we'll have us back and we'll have this discussion on another Saturday because Trump may be the Republican nominee even in this --

DOUTHAT: I will be here ready to eat my words.

WHITFIELD: OK. We may have to hold you to that then, right? And we'll have you here to -- whether it happens or not.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: All right, Bakari Sellers, Ross Douthat, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

SELLERS: Thank you.

DOUTHAT: Appreciate it.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much.

All right. And meantime, we just learned that Donald Trump will be on "STATE OF THE UNION" tomorrow 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time, live with our Jake Tapper.

And the next time that we will see a large number of the Republican candidates on stage together will be the debate on CNN next month, Wednesday, September 16th. And the following month CNN hosts the first Democratic presidential debate, and you can watch that right here on Tuesday, October 13th.

All right. Also coming up a year since the shooting death of Michael Brown, and now there's a new police chief. CNN's Sara Sidner is live for us in Ferguson and she spoke to the interim chief -- Sarah.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he was very candid in his comments talking about the changes that have been made and the changes that still need to be made. What people are saying. What he is saying about how the city has changed. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:46:21] WHITFIELD: All right. Nearly one year ago an unarmed black teenager was shot and killed by a white police officer in Ferguson, Missouri. Today with their hands in the air shouting "Don't Shoot," crowds came out to celebrate Michael Brown's life and this protest movement led by his father, Michael Brown, Sr. They took part in a march which began on the street where the shooting took place. It ended at the Normandy High School where Brown graduated. Tomorrow is the actual anniversary of the shooting.

Brown's death sparked months of protests around the country and the federal government even launched an investigation into the Ferguson's police department.

CNN's Sara Sidner joining us now live from Ferguson.

And so, Sara, you spent a lot of time there. What has changed since you last visited?

SIDNER: There have been a lot of changes, although some people see those as the city moving forward. Other people see those as a bit of a smoke screen. A lot of new names and city government. But a lot of those new names have interim in front of their titles. One of those new names is the new interim police chief, Andre Anderson. We're able to sit down and talk to him for a very candid conversation about what he sees in the department and what needs to change.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDRE ANDERSON, FERGUSON POLICE CHIEF: I just really wish we had peace. We don't need this. No one needs this. It's not just the police officers that I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about everyone.

SIDNER (voice-over): This is the man leading perhaps the most scrutinized police department in America right now, the Ferguson, Missouri, Police Department. The city where an explosion of anger against police tactics erupted a year ago when Officer Darren Wilson killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown after the two scuffled at the police vehicle.

(On camera): When you were looking from afar at what was happening here in Ferguson one year ago, what was your take on all that was going on here in Ferguson?

ANDERSON: It bothered me. It really did.

SIDNER: What was it that bothered you? What disturbed you?

ANDERSON: To see the divide that was evident in this community. That's what bothered me. It just didn't feel like we should be this way in America. But I understand that there are differences and I wanted to be part of making a change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Failure to disperse may result in arrest and/or other actions.

SIDNER (voice-over): That change coming in big part after the streets of Ferguson looked more like a warzone than small city America. Protesters took to the streets for more than 100 days straight with sometimes violent outbursts. Their persistence influencing the Department of Justice to

investigate. The investigation cleared Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting but issued a damming report on the department as a whole, saying it helped create the racial tensions by unfairly targeting, searching, and ticketing black people to help fill the city's coffers.

(On camera): What happens if your bosses, the city manager, comes to you and says we need to generate more money, we need you to ticket more people? What do you say to them?

ANDERSON: I won't do that.

SIDNER: You'll just say no?

ANDERSON: I will. And they won't do that either. I have had conversations about the new leadership, and I didn't sign up as a police officer to go out and write tickets to generate funds. That is not our job.

SIDNER (voice-over): This year a new law has been passed to stop Missouri cities from using their police departments as ATMs, lowering what they can make on traffic fines. For Ferguson, that means a reduction from a maximum of 30 percent to 12.5 percent of its operating revenue.

[13:50:01] The new chief said his officers are eager to move forward. Black officers have been hired, though still make up only 10 percent of the force while the community they serve is 67 percent black.

(On camera): Does Ferguson have a racist view? Is there a problem within the department?

ANDERSON: I think that in the department there are individuals and factions that don't understand the community. But, in fact, there have been some issues with respect to having race problems. There has been. And I think that the police department is doing a good job -- has done a good job at getting rid of people that have caused those types of problems.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: You know, some of the city have come here and who live here have come out to commemorate the death of Michael Brown. His death is really a polarizing force, even still here, in Ferguson, and in conversations across America, across the racial divide, those who say that, you know, what created this situation was some of his actions and the DOJ report and the grand jury report that came out that exonerated the police officer who killed Michael Brown saying that his shooting was justified.

There is still a lot of anger in this town from both sides of the aisle, those who see this town as something that was good before all this happened. It has gotten much more difficult -- much more difficult to have conversations with other people and those who say it's finally brought people together to talk about a very difficult subject and that is race in America. WHITFIELD: All right. Lots of contrasting emotion, indeed.

Sara Sidner, thank you so much.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:55:58] WHITFIELD: All right. A look at stories making news right now. Police have shot and killed a man who they say went on a stabbing rampage in Long Beach, California. Six people were stabbed. Some at an apartment complex. The others at a convalescent home. Their wounds range from superficial to critical. Police are investigating the motive.

And Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer says he will not support the Iran nuclear deal. He made the announcement after President Obama spent a week pitching the Iran pact to Congress. The Republican-controlled Congress is expected to pass a measure disapproving of the deal. But the president has pledge to veto that and the Democrats are confident they have the votes to sustain it.

President Barack Obama discussed the pact when he sat down with CNN's Fareed Zakaria for an exclusive interview. To watch the full interview be sure to watch "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" tomorrow 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

And people in Colorado are being told to avoid a river that turned orange after federal clean-up crews accidentally dumped about a million gallons of waste water. The EPA says one of its teams was using heavy equipment to enter the abandoned Gold King Mind instead of pumping and treating contaminated water from the mine as planned. The team caused the water to spill into the river.

All right, we've got so much more straight ahead in the NEWSROOM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)