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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI

Terror Attacks on US Consulate and Forces; Trump's Latest Controversy; Protests in Ferguson Turn Violent; Movie Fans Going Too Far?

Aired August 10, 2015 - 15:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:10] HALA GORANI, HOST: Tonight a day of violence across Turkey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Multiple attacks at security forces and the U.S. Consulate while the country ramps up its role in the fight against ISIS.

Also, uneasy calm on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri today after a night of unrest and violence; we're live in Ferguson.

Plus, Donald Trump is refusing to back down. The U.S. Presidential Candidate stands behind his comments about women despite widespread

criticism.

And to film or not to film? Actor Benedict Cumberbatch issues an unusual appeal after he says smartphone wielding fans are going too far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Hello, everyone, I'm Hala Gorani. Happy Monday everyone, we're live at CNN, London, thanks for being with us. This is The World Right

Now.

Well as Turkey ups its stake in the battle against ISIS, its own internal conflicts are certainly coming into focus this evening.

There's been a wave of attacks in the country and in two Turkish regions. The most deadly was in the country's south east; four police officers were

killed by a roadside bomb. And a soldier was killed in the same region after a helicopter he was travelling in was fired on. The government is

blaming a Separatist terrorist organization and apparent referenced to the militant Kurdish Workers' Party, the PKK.

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GORANI: Now in the country's biggest city, Istanbul a police station was attacked. One person was killed as well as the two attackers 10 were

injured. And across time two suspected leftists staged an armed attack on the American Consulate. There were no casualties in that attack but you

can see that it was really across the country.

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GORANI: It comes even as the U.S. and coalition forces gain greater access to Turkish airbases cutting the flying time to those ISIS positions in

Syria and Iraq substantially.

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GORANI: The U.S. is sending F16 fighters to Southern Turkey. CNN is covering these developments with CNN - with our senior international

correspondent in both Turkey and Syria. In a moment we'll speak to Fred Pleitgen, he's in Damascus. First let's turn to Nick Paton Walsh in

Istanbul.

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GORANI: First let's talk a little bit about these attacks. Are they linked? Have there been any claims? What do we know?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well so far we know that the two in the South are (inaudible - technical difficulty) .

authority is blamed on the Kurds, the two you mentioned there.

But in the capital, in the commercial capital it's a much more confusing picture.

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WALSH: A Marxist Leninist group (inaudible) the DHKPC or the Revolutionary People's Liberation Party, now they are blamed by the authorities for

trying to attack the U.S. Consulate. One of the gunned women there said to be in her 40s and perhaps even known to the authorities according to one

state news media report as a potential suicide bomber, her picture circulated. She was tracked down injured by police to an apartment block

where she was arrested, her accomplice still free we understand.

It's not clear who was behind the truck bomb and subsequent fire fight on the police station in the east of this city. But one key thing to point

out here is all this violence has yet to have any claimed responsibility to ISIS. It comes a day after U.S. jets arrived in that southern military

base Incirlik and potentially in the days ahead begin bombing runs against ISIS targets inside there. This happens 24 hours, a pretty unprecedented

wave of four separate attacks in two separate areas of the country but it doesn't seem necessarily to be linked to the ISIS fight at this stage.

It shows you either the volume of political violence inside Turkey and potentially also what that decision by President Erdogan and the

authorities here to move against the Kurds as well as ISIS is perhaps doing internally here inside Turkey in a time when tourism's so important, they

have this commercial capital city, now bracing itself frankly to see if there's any more attacks in the days ahead, Hala.

GORANI: All right certainly its involvement in these operations against ISIS spreading far beyond to Kurdish positions as well in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Let's go to Fred Pleitgen who is in Damascus, a rearview inside of Syria, Fred. These war planes now being deployed from Southern Turkey as

opposed to having to fly from Gulf countries against ISIS positions is the sentiment that they would make a dent against ISIS in Syria here.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh there certainly isn't.

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PLEITGEN: I mean when you speak to people on the ground many of them are very actually concerned about the advances that ISIS has been making here

against the Syrian forces. And if you speak to officials they'll also tell you they don't believe that it's going to make very much difference in

their fight against ISIS or generally in the civil war that's going on here in Syria.

[15:05:02]I mean one of the things that seems clear is that these jets first and foremost are going to try and seal the border between Turkey and

Syria to make sure that ISIS can't replenish fighters as fast as possible and get weapons across. But one of the things the Syrians are saying they

believe that there needs to be more muscle on the ground against ISIS and they believe that there's a bullwork against ISIS, at least if you speak to

Syrian Government officials here.

Nevertheless here people are very, very concerned at the games that ISIS has been making. Palmyra certainly was something that caused people a lot

of concern.

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PLEITGEN: Then there was another Syrian town that was taken just last week where many Christians had to flee. And then the incident when ISIS showed

up all of a sudden in Yarmouk camp in the middle of Damascus.

So people here -- about a year and a half ago the last time we were here Hala people couldn't fathom that ISIS would come anywhere near Damascus and

that certainly is not the same sentiment that you hear today, Hala.

GORANI: All right, let's - we're in Damascus with Fred, also of course in Istanbul with our other senior international correspondent, Nick Paton

Walsh.

Nick, let's talk a little bit about what Turkey's been doing since it said that it has entered the fight against ISIS. Of course many of its

airstrikes have targeted Kurds. Kurds are fighting ISIS so in fact they're - you could argue attacking both sides of the same battle here. What's its

aim?

WALSH: Well it makes the position for the United States extraordinarily complex. While they are supporting out on paper at least the attacks

against the PKK who the U.S. also prescribe as a terrorist organization, I think they're aware of the complexity here. We're talking about Kurdish

militia. Many say the PKK often just switch the badges on their uniforms and then perhaps go and fight alongside the YPG too which is the Syrian

branch of the Kurds.

It's extraordinarily complex to get to the bottom of it but really there's I think a feeling amongst the Kurds that you say that they have been at

times very effective ground troops, awkward as it is for the U.S. on the ground pushing ISIS away from targets of U.S. Airstrikes be that in Kobani

we saw last year or Tell Abyad more recently, along that border. And it puts the U.S. in a very complex situation because Turkey has clearly

decided they want to keep the Kurds is that for their own separate political reasons. There's an argument saying from critics for the

government here they're looking to shore up nationalism ahead of a potential snap election. The politics in this country very precarious

right now. Or is it simply more militarily that Turkey is keen not to let any space it clears of ISIS automatically fall to the Kurds so they want to

weaken the Kurds at the same time.

It's extraordinarily complex situation for the United States. And they're trying to keep the Turkish on board as an allay who's based in the south

and Incirlik to be able to reduce the kind of service time for the jets and drones they're using to hit ISIS targets in Northern Syria. While at the

same time recognizing that Turkey is making their job extraordinarily hard as well. Hala?

GORANI: All right, its complex not just for the United States, it's almost difficult to follow for people who follow this story every single day at

this point. Thanks very much, Nick Paton Walsh is in Istanbul; Fred Pleitgen is inside Syria in Damascus. Thanks to both of you and we `ll get

more of Fred's reporting from the Syrian capital later this hour so stay tuned.

Let's take it to the United States now.

There's been a year since the shooting of Michael Brown by white police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, Daren Wilson. And it ignited really a wave

of protests and discontent across the country with cases as well of other black men shot by white police officers in the United States.

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GORANI: Now they're back out, the protestors in Ferguson, a day after violent erupted in the streets. Take a look at some of this video here.

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GORANI: You can see an arrest there, the latest demonstrations in St. Louis near Ferguson, organizers are calling it a day of civil disobedience

and a national call to action.

No reports of any clashes in that particular case but that was not the case on Sunday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: The day started with peaceful vigils in memory of 18 year old Michael Brown, one year after he was killed. A white police officer

fatally shot the unarmed black teenager. Now as night fell on the anniversary police say protestors hurled rocks at them. Nearby officers

came under heavy fire from a gunman. Sara Sidner was there when the chaos broke out.

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I was there for all three separate shootings that police have now confirmed one person has been shot

and is in critical condition. Another two have been shot, both of them in the chest.

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SIDNER: Gun shots ring out on the streets of Ferguson on the one year anniversary of Michael Brown's death.

Erupting into chaos overnight when gunfire sent protestors and police running for cover. Watch as this video captures another angle of the

moment the shooting breaks out.

[15:10:00] JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: The suspect engages them with gunfire, the plain clothes detectives return fire from the inside

of the van.

SIDNER: St. Louis County police say officers were involved in heavy gunfire in two shootings Sunday night. In one incident police say a

suspect shot directly at plain clothes officers with a stolen 9mm.

BELMAR: There were four officers who were in the van, all four fired at the suspect and the suspect fell there.

SIDNER: I captured some gunshots on camera as I interviewed Ferguson's Interim Police Chief.

This graphic video posted by searchforswag on twitter shows a man who was shot while fleeing police. Police say he had fired at them. Police also

say a stolen handgun was found on the scene.

Angry protestors clashing with police, hurling bottles and bricks at officers. Police deploying tear gas to disperse the grounds.

Two businesses were damaged and looted. These images capture bullet holes in unmarked police cruisers caught in the crossfire. The night of unrest

following a day of peaceful vigils to remember Brown's death and the movement it started.

Demonstrators marched and observed four and a half minutes of silence, one minute for every hour that Brown's body lay on the street after he was

shot. Brown's killing by a white officer sparked outrage and protests nationwide though the officer was later cleared by both a grand jury and

the Department of Justice investigation. Anger bubbled over; violence then mirroring violence now, one year later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: The St. Louis County Police Chief coming out very strongly and saying that what happened on West (inaudible) this time with the shooting

had nothing to do with protestors, that these were criminals taking advantage of the situation. We do know that at least one officer has

lacerations to her face hit with a brick.

We also know that police are telling us that two vehicles, two of their undercover vehicles were hit by bullets as well. Saying that the person

that they were pursuing in this case and ended up shooting began shooting at them.

Back to you guys.

GORANI: Sara Sidner there in Ferguson. Well prosecutors in Missouri now identify that gunman as 18 year old Tyrone Harris of St. Louis. They've

actually charged him with multiple counts. He remains hospitalized in critical condition. Sara Sidner joins me now live from Ferguson, Missouri.

What's the latest on these charges and the arrest Sara?

SIDNER: Hala like you said, several charges, more than 10 charges have now been put against Tyrone Harris, 18 years old. But some of his family

members do not believe what police are saying, that he shot at them. Police saying that he indeed did and they fired back.

I can also tell you that this was supposed to be a day that was planned for civil disobedience; meaning that people would go to the streets, they would

go to the highways, they would go in front of government buildings, in front of big box stores and try and keep people out, try to stand their

ground in solidarity with this movement.

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SIDNER: And that has happened in front of the St. Louis County Justice Department. Basically what you're seeing today is people getting arrested.

There are at least a dozen people that we know have gotten arrested including a very well-known activist speaker and intellectual named Dr.

Cornell West that is known worldwide. He has been arrested as well, we got confirmation of that just a moment ago.

He was here not too many months ago and was arrested right out here, outside of the Ferguson Police Department saying that, you know people need

to be able to stand up for what they think is right and he's continued to do that through his life even though he is, you know, an older gentlemen

who still believes that young people should have a voice in this country.

And it is indeed young people who started this whole new rebirth of a movement saying that police need to recognize that black lives matter as

much as white lives, and treat them as such. Hala.

GORANI: Sara Sidner in Ferguson thanks very much with video you were referencing Cornell West, video there of Cornell West in handcuffs.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GORANI: Thanks very much. A lot more ahead on the World Right Now.

GORANI: Donald Trump is not apologizing after some controversial comments he made about a female Fox news anchor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Could the U.S. Presidential Candidate's latest misstep cost him in the polls? It is not looking like it. We'll be right back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[15:16:41] GORANI: Well, Israel now has a crucial opportunity to try to sway American lawmakers on the Iran nuclear deal that opposed so much.

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GORANI: In no uncertain terms we heard it from the Prime Minister and others. That's because nearly 60 members of congress are in Israel right

now as we speak, a trip paid for by a pro-Israel lobbying organization. Many of whom had already met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

who thinks this Iran deal is a historic mistake.

The timing of the trip gives the Israeli government the chance to voice its concerns just weeks before congress must decide whether to approve the

agreement.

Our Oren Liebermann got a chance to speak with one of those visiting congress. Oren joins me now live from Jerusalem.

Let's talk a little bit about what they told you, what there plans are as well when they return to Washington Oren.

OREN LIEBERMANN: Well we spoke with the leader of the Democratic delegation. 22 Democrats here as part of this nearly 60 member delegation,

and that leader is Congressman Steny Hoyer, a Democrat from Marilyn.

He says what he heard from Netanyahu was nothing new in terms of the message. We all new Netanyahu was against the deal, he just expressed his

concerns. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: And Hoyer said he's heard these concerns before. He wouldn't indicate whether he was going to vote for the deal or against the deal, but

he does say what he heard from Netanyahu resonates - he said resonated with some of the concerns he had about the deal which is about the snapback of

sanctions.

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LIEBERMANN: As well as whether the inspections can verify whether Iran is trying to build a nuclear weapon. He says it's an imperfect deal. He says

even President Obama would call it an imperfect deal. But he says what people need to vote on, what Republicans and Democrats need to vote on is -

is it the best deal right now and does it keep America safe, Israel safe?

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LIEBERMANN: And does it keep Iran from getting a nuclear bomb. He says that's what's at the crux of this deal and that's what everyone, the

congressmen need to vote on.

Now he does disagree on one point very sharply with President Obama. Obama has said that it's either vote for the deal or set the U.S. on a path to

war with Iran. That is where Congressman Hoyer very much disagrees with the President. Here's what he had to say.

STENY HOYER,U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: I do not believe that if the agreement were not approved that that is a path to war. We imposed the sanctions

through congress with the cooperation of the Administration. The sanctions in my opinion brought Iran to the table. And the first steps of course

would be to a) keep sanctions in place and b) perhaps to make sanctions even tougher. So that I don't agree that we would set the country on a

path to war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: Congressman Hoyer says he's been to Israel 14 times. So think about this Hala; if Netanyahu has trouble convincing a congressman who's

been here 14 times to vote against the deal it seems like he would have a very difficult time convincing any other Democratic members of congress to

also vote against the deal.

GORANI: And I'm also seeing there based on the notes you sent the producer that he also talked about Donald Trump. All the way over there in Israel?

LIEBERMANN: He laughed; I had to ask the question because it's the big news in terms of Trump leading the Republican pack. He laughed when I

asked the question and he said a couple of things. First he said Trump's comments about the Fox news anchor were absolutely disgusting and

completely unfit for somebody trying to run not only for public office but President of the United States.

[15:20:10] He also said those comments say as much about the Republican Party as they do about Trump.

GORANI: All right, there - it's always about politics no matter where you are in the world (laughing). And you have an opportunity to say, to make a

comment. Thanks very much, Oren Liebermann is live in Jerusalem with that.

There could be more - we just spoke about Trump. There could be more fireworks ahead for that U.S. Presidential candidate.

It's just been announced that the Republican front runner will appear on Fox news tomorrow morning. That's the media giant he's been feuding with

since last week when he made those controversial remarks about one of their most prominent anchors, Megyn Kelly.

Trump has rejected calls for him to apologize for any of those comments. Here's a wrap up with Athena Jones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATHENA JONES: Donald Trump on the offensive.

DONALD TRUMP: All I was doing was referring to her anger. I said nothing wrong whatsoever.

JONES: The latest controversy surrounding the billionaire erupted after he said this about Fox anchor, Megyn Kelly, one of the moderator's on

Thursday's debate to CNN's Don Lemon.

TRUMP: She starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions, and you know you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out

of her wherever.

JONES: Trump was upset with what he calls unfair questioning from her during the Republican primary debate.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX ANCHOR: You call women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.

JONES: The GOP front runner appeared on four Sunday shows to defend himself, including CNN's State of the Union saying he never intended to

suggest Kelly was having her period as many interpreted his comment.

TRUMP: I was going to say nose and/or ears because that's a very common statement, blood flowing out of somebody's nose. It's a statement showing

anger. Do you think I'd make a stupid statement like that? Who would make a statement like that? Only a sick person would even think about.

JONES: In a sign of growing concern in GOP quarters Trump was disinvited from a Conservative/Republican gathering over the weekend after the

comments about Kelly. Many but not all of Trump's GOP rivals criticized the remarks.

JEB BUSH, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do we want win? Do we want to insult 53% of all voters [applause]. What Donald Trump said is

wrong.

CARLY FIORINA, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They were completely inappropriate and offensive comments, period.

JONES: A comment that drew fire from Trump on Sunday when he tweeted "if you listen to Carly Fiorina for more than 10 minutes straight you develop a

massive headache."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Athena Jones there with the latest on Donald Trump. We don't have any polls so this is interesting we don't have any actual polls that we can

reference to go by post-debate to determine with accuracy and reliability, whether or not Donald Trump is holding onto his lead. But we're getting

sort of anecdotal evidence that he's continuing to appeal to Republican voters.

Certainly one poll a few weeks ago suggested that part of his base were white Republicans without a college degree. So a blue-collar base is

helping him.

We're going to discuss all of these aspects of Donald Trump's it has to be said, fascinating run for the Republican nomination a little bit later in

the program.

Coming up we go to South Africa and we ask is this the world's most dangerous job?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: We'll go underground to see how migrants are risking death mining for gold in South Africa that ends up in stores all around the world. Stay

with us.

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[15:25:09] GORANI: In South Africa thousands of illegal gold miners are risking their lives for next to nothing.

Our David McKenzie takes us underground to show us some terrifying conditions down there in what may be the world's most dangerous job.

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DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Blessing Ndlovu fled Zimbabwe to seek his fortune here in South Africa. But he's been cursed

with perhaps the world's worst job.

An undocumented migrant Blessing earns his living in the one place the police are too afraid to follow.

They are the illegal miners of Johannesburg or Zama Zamas tapping into a subterranean city of gold.

But to really get a sense of this we have to go underneath with the illegal miners to see just what it's like.

Squeezing down coffin size tunnels it's a terrifying descent into hell. And Blessing does it each day.

When I came to South Africa he says I never thought I'd have to do this to eat. It's dangerous work and Zama Zamas die all the time mostly forgotten.

Every one of them has lost a friend.

RESPECT MOYO, ILLEGAL MINER: I don't like it.

MCKENZIE: Why not?

MOYO: I've seen something.

MCKENZIE: Was it scary?

MOYO: Yes I'm scared about the story. I don't know (inaudible) sometimes (inaudible) shake.

MCKENZIE: Sometimes the mine shakes and the rocks fall says Respect Moyo. When they become loose they fall down the shaft and hit us.

It's hard to believe that anyone would take risks like this just for a few dollars a day. But on the ragged edges of Johannesburg there are few

opportunities. Half of South Africa's youth are unemployed and illegal migrants are at the bottom of the pile.

So they've swarmed under the abandoned mines that once help build this city. Blessing says he's been robbed at gunpoint for his gold. Zama zamas

even kill underground for just a sack of stone.

We're always going down in twos he says. I work with a friend but when we go down we find other people working there. Even now there are people

doing this job even deeper than us.

And going up is harder than coming down but it offers some relief. And you can just imagine after hours or even days being underneath here trying to

carry up rocks. It's just a thankless job.

Zama zama means take a chance and Blessing and Respect gamble everything to survive in what has to be the worst job in the world.

David McKenzie, CNN, Johannesburg.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: I'm all claustrophobic from just looking at that, I got a little anxious there. David McKenzie went right in there though. Unbelievable

working conditions.

We're going to have a quick look at the headlines when we come back.

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GORANI: Plus U.S. fighter jets move closer to ISIS targets as Turkey lets in the American military. We will attest what impact the move could have

on the fight against ISIS. I'll speak to the former U.S. Ambassador to Turkey coming up.

And Benedict Cumberbatch is staring and in an adaptation of Hamlet; but it is as we said outside of the theatre that is getting people talking today.

We'll be right back.

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[15:31:22] GORANI: Here's a look at our top stories. An outbreak of violence has rocked Turkey's largest city. At least one police officer was

killed today.

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GORANI: That officer was killed when police say two attackers assaulted an Istanbul police station and they say the attackers also wounded at least 10

people before they were killed by authorities.

Elsewhere in the city police have arrested a woman and are seeking another after an attack on the American Consulate. We'll be talking more about

this in a moment.

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GORANI: Protestors are back out in Missouri after a night of violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Take a look at the latest demonstrations in St. Louis near the (inaudible) city of Ferguson. On Sunday night police say they shot a man

who was firing at officers near a protest. He's in critical condition facing charges and this of course is the one year anniversary of the death

of Michael Brown at the hands of a white police officer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: At least five people have been killed and more than a dozen injured after a suicide bombing at Kabul International Airport.

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GORANI: The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack saying that they were targeting foreign forces entering the airport.

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GORANI: And in Sweden two people have been stabbed to death at an Ikea. A third victim was serious injured.

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GORANI: And police say they've arrested a man on suspicion of murder. They have not provided more details. It happened in a town about an hour

away from Stockholm.

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GORANI: As Turkey wrestles with a spate of attacks today across the country the United States is increasing its presence in the country to

fight the war against ISIS.

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GORANI: Turkey has allowed the U.S. Air Force to deploy 6 F16s to the Incirlik air base in the country's south. This comes as last week media

reports indicated that the first unmanned U.S. drone had already been launched from that same base to attack ISIS targets in Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Let's get more insight now on what's happening in Turkey, not just with regards to ISIS but with regards to Turkey's attacks on Kurdish

(inaudible).

I'm joined by Francis Ricciardone, in Washington. He was the U.S Ambassador to Turkey between 2011 and 2014. And he's now vice-president at

the Atlantic Council.

Thanks Ambassador for being with us. Let's talk a little bit about today's violence though. Is it surprising that suspected Kurdish groups are

attacking police stations and military targets in Turkey after the events of the last few weeks.?

FRANCIS, J. RICCIARDONE, VICE PRESIDENT, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: I believe whether it's surprising or not it's a terrible mistake on their part and

it's rather odd two enemies of Turkey who are also enemies of the United States each made very serious strategic mistakes recently in attacking the

Turkish state.

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RICCIARDONE: One being the PKK, the Kurdish terrorist group that you've just referred to basically ending the ceasefire that they had enjoyed for a

couple of years. And then of course ISIS at about the same time made the mistake of attacking in Turkey. And this naturally has brought on the

response of the full Turkish National Security apparatus.

GORANI: But if you look at the Turkish militaries what's been billed as its involvement finally its reluctant involvement in the fight against

ISIS, it seems as though there are more bombings, more attacks on Kurdish positions in Iraq than there are really fighting against ISIS positions.

Is there - is that really its primary aim do you think in all of this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICCIARDONE: The Turkish state has been in a hot armed conflict with the PKK for years and years, that's not something new.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:05] RICCIARDONE: What had been new for the past couple of years was a cease fire and a very hopeful political process that a lot of people,

a lot of Turks, and certainly the United States hoped would lead to a political solution, the laying down of arms and the withdrawal of the PKK.

That ended.

At the same time ISIS chose to engage Turkey, to be involved in an attack inside Turkish soil even at a time when there was increasing public demand

for the Turkish state to take a more open position against ISIS. The two things rather go together.

I think as far as the United States is concerned, the focus has been on involving the Government of Turkey more actively against ISIS. But as far

as PKK goes there has been no change, the United States has always stood by Turkey in confronting the PKK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: But it has to be a little bit - I mean this is such a complicated situation. This isn't Turkey and its relationship with the Kurds before

ISIS.

Now the Kurds are the fighting force on the ground in Syria, and Iraq against ISIS. The United States has to be slightly troubled right that

some of the bombing targets of the Turkish military are the very ones fighting against ISIS militants right?

RICCIARDONE: Well no it's not right entirely; we make the distinction and I believe the Turks - the Turkish state is also making the distinction.

When you say "the Kurds" there are people who live in several different recognized states and one failed state and there are different parties,

different groups among them. For example within Turkey alone there are great many people who are Kurdish who are ethnically citizens of Turkey and

many of them are quite in the - in the government. There are four Kurdish members of the parliament, or there were. There is a party that

predominately represents Kurdish interest that is in the political constitutional process of Turkey.

And there may be some affinities with the PKK but they make a very sharp distinction between themselves and the PKK who have declared war on the

Turkish state. Similarly the Kurds of Syria exist in several different groups. And the one we usually think about when we talk about "the Kurds"

of Syria are also known by their English acronym of the PYD, and that is the group that the United States has been working with.

They have said explicitly they have no quarrel with the Turkish state. So although they're affinities with the PKK, they are different. And the

United States treats them differently, and the government of Turkey treats them differently.

GORANI: All though I imagine on the ground it would be a little bit more difficult for a Kurd in Syria fighting force against ISIS to not - to not

think that those targeting - those (inaudible) targeting Kurds in Iraq are something that they might take issue with right? But how do you - is this

going to be - how - Turkey's involvement against ISIS right now, is it wholehearted? I mean you were Ambassador, you know the country very well,

you lived there with your family. It's been accused for years of allowing militants into Northern Syria to join some of the most extremist groups to

just allow its border to be open. Is it wholeheartedly in this fight?

RICCIARDONE: I think much like Americans for that matter, they wanted to avoid the fight. They wanted to avoid involvement in the Syrian civil war.

There is no popular sentiment in favor of Turkish boots on the ground in an Arab country. They have memories going back only to their grandparents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICCIARDONE: So the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and very, very unhappy memories between the people who became the Turks of the modern Republic and

their former colonial subjects. So they have not wanted to get involved in that civil war.

With respect to ISIS or the various fanatic groups, the armed fanatic groups there. I never detected any Turkish sympathy for them as such. I

did detect a reluctance to get involved in a war with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Well not sympathy but based on many, many reports at the border, for years it was quite clear they were turning a blind eye to a huge flow

of foreign fighters joining these extremist groups. I mean you have to agree with that right?

RICCIARDONE: Sure, please understand I'm not here to defend the Government of Turkey and I don't represent the United States Government either. I'm

trying to explain the Turkish attitude towards them. They just saw this group as trouble makers and indeed they would turn to us in the west when

we would say why don't you do more against these people, and they would say why do you send us your garbage. If you know that these are criminals and

have violent intent, why don't you stop them from leaving their countries in Western Europe? What do you expect us to do if you can't deter them -

if you won't jail them and if you won't deter them from travelling, how do you expect us to stop them at our borders?

[15:40:11] Now that can be a little disingenuous of course but that was their response. It was a counter resentment if you will that the outside

world wasn't preventing the flow of these people too.

GORANI: All right.

RICCIARDONE: I think we've over commented on both sides and they've done much more to send that flow as the outside world has done too.

GORANI: Ambassador, it's a complicated picture, that's an understatement right ..

RICCIARDONE: Yes it is.

GORANI: . when it comes to what the developments seem to add one layer of complication after another. Frances Ricciardone, an Ambassador to Turkey

for many years for the United States, thank you very much for joining us from Washington, we appreciate it.

We'll be right back on The World Right Now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Donald Trump refusing to back down from remarks many have called offensive.

I'll talk to CNN's political commentator S.E. Cupp to get her take just ahead.

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GORANI: Let's return now to the controversy engulfing U.S. Presidential Candidate, Donald Trump. The Republican front runner is refusing to

apologize for comments he made to CNN about a female T.V. News Host from Fox news who asked him tough questions in last week's debate about women.

Trump insists that he was not inferring Fox News' Megyn Kelly, was menstruating but for Carly Fiorina the only woman seeking Republican

nomination, Trump's explanation doesn't suffice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINI: Understood that comment and yes it is offensive. I started out as the secretary and as I made my way up in the business world, a male

dominated business world, I've had lots of men imply that I was unfit for decision making because maybe I was having my period. So I'll say it, OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Carly Fiorini - Trump responded to her on twitter with the candor that he's known for, he tweeted "I just realized that if you listen to

Carly Fiorini for more than 10 minutes straight you develop a massive headache, she has zero chance."

Many now are wondering what affects these comments will have on Trump's chances and his standing at the top of the Republican polls. CNN's

Political Commentator, S. E. Cupp, a Republican joins us now live from our Washington Bureau.

Thanks for being with us. First of all have we had any reliable polling out since the debate to gage whether or not Trump has held on to his lead?

S. E. Cupp, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, Trump will tell you that he's won all the polls right, and he won the debate but there actually isn't any

reliable polling out.

It's not just since the debate but since he made the comments after the debate to Don Lemon about Megyn Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: And that was about three days after the debate. So we'll want to see what kind of reaction American voters, and specifically his supporters,

have to that minute in addition to his debate performance. Two separate things I think.

[15:45:00] GORANI: OK. Let's talk a little bit about what he's weathered and in fact what he's come out stronger from.

Just to remind our international viewers; he insulted John McCain's war record, he was a POW. He went on twitter, as we said a twitter tirade

against Megyn Kelly, this was before the blood coming out of her eyes comment.

His top senior advisor, Roger Stone, departs the campaign. All of this is happening and other things, and he's still, at least according to the last

reliable poll was maintaining his lead. So is the expectation that this too won't hurt him?

CUPP: Well look Trump supporters seem really immune not only to his gaffs but to the fact that his record's not very conservative, they just don't

seem to care, right. They like the way he talks. So I'm sure among that small group of people he will retain some support. But I think for

Conservatives who were understandably looking for a different kind of candidate and thought maybe Donald Trump was it. I think the past week,

the past few days has shown them that he's not - he's not the answer. So I expect a slight dip in his polls and especially since Marco Rubio, and John

Kasich, and I think Chris Christie, had a pretty good debate performance, I expect them to rise a bit.

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CUPP: So I expect a slight dip, I don't know if this is the thing that will you know be the guillotine of Donald Trump's campaign.

GORANI: Will kill his campaign, because it's been - that campaign - right, that campaign has been declared in serious trouble before it has not been

the case before. But I've got to - got to ask you about his appeal because internationally OK, he's a household name internationally Donald Trump.

But people still shake their heads and I get asked this a lot, why are Republican voters supporting him with a 10 point lead ahead of his nearest

rival. What is it about Donald Trump that's appealing to a part of the Republican party right now?

CUPP: Yes, I think it's the same thing that is appealing to some Democrats for Bernie Sanders, right. They don't talk like politicians. Bernie

Sanders is a politician but he calls himself a socialist and Democrats don't even blush about that. It's amazing what you know world we're living

in now.

I think it's a real testament to the disaffection that a lot of American voters have with politicians. No-one believes what they say, no-one

expects them to deliver on promises, no-one thinks anyone's being authentic or actually trying to solve problems. We look at politicians as career

politicians..

GORANI: . But they think that of - sorry to jump in they think that of Trump. They think OK, he's brash, OK he's saying crazy things but at least

he's authentic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Yes, I think people are confusing candor and straight talk with sort of just winging it fly by the seat of your pants, say anything that comes

to mind stream of consciousness. And I think the good lesson for the rest of the candidates on the left and the right is people want to hear you talk

like a real person. That's a good lesson out of Trump gate. But I think the bad lesson would be to think that you should just go out there and say

what's on your mind, not worry about how it comes out, or.

I mean I think the presidency Mr. Trump needs to know is as much about diplomacy and discretion as it is about a show of strength. And people

still want to know that the pilot of the United States of America isn't going to crash the plane into the mountain.

GORANI: S. E. Cupp, thanks very much, pleasure talking to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Trump tweeted Roger Ailes called him and assured him everything was good between Trump and Fox News.

We'll be right back, stay with us.

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[15:50:14] GORANI: He's best known for his talents on stage and on screen but a performance by Benedict Cumberbatch outside a London theatre has

people talking today.

The star is currently performing in an adaptation of Hamlet but when he noticed that people were filming it while he was on stage he left the

theatre and had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH, ACTOR: Don't use social media and I would really appreciate it if you didn't, tweet, blog, hashtag the [bleep] out of this

one performance. (Inaudible) this is part of it (inaudible) would have a outside fine. I can see cameras, I can see red lights in the auditorium,

and it may not be any of here that did that but its blinding obvious like that one there, that little red light, it's very, very obvious.

(Inaudible) To Be or Not To Be (inaudible) harder I can see a red light in the outside row (inaudible). It's mortifying and there's nothing that's

supportive or enjoyment as an actor being on stage experiencing that, and I can't give you what I want to give you which is a live performance that you

will remember hopefully in your minds and brains whether it's good, bad or indifferent, rather than on your phones.

So please don't and it will get strict from now on. They've got devices that are coming in on Monday that will have people detected and evicted.

So I don't want that to happen, that's a horrible way to have to police what's a wonderful thing.

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GORANI: Earlier I spoke to director, Julie Taymor who directed an won a Tony award for the Broadway hit The Lion King. A big name in musical

theatre. I began by asking her whether she had experienced people filming some of her shows.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE TAYMOR, THEATRE AND FILM DIRECTOR: Well yes, of course in the notorious Spiderman people were because they were so excited and interested

to get there before the critics, they start coming at the first preview and even the critics start to preview - to critic - to have comments before

you're ready.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYMOR: And the whole previous process really has to be for the actors and the director and the team to get ready to do the show. They need to be

able to make mistakes, they need to be able to try things out, they need to get the audience reaction. So it is very trying for many directors. I

know a lot of my comrades have gone through this on Broadway and many actors have actually told the audiences to stop right in the middle of the

production.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAYMOR: Or I think there was one where Patti Lupone actually grabbed the cell phone out of the person's hand without them knowing.

GORANI: She did absolutely. Now Benedict Cumberbatch of course is playing Hamlet at the Barbican, here in London, not far from our studios. We sent

a camera crew down there to ask this ordinary West End theatre goers what they thought of what he told the audience saying it's just unnerving,

please enjoy the moment, this is what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of what goes on on stage is Intellectual Property and a performance that already really shouldn't be filmed in a

venue like this, I think it was rightful for him to ask that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And part of what's brilliant about it is that it is live. And I think when you capture it forever then you're taking away part

of what's essential about the theatre experience.

So his reaction makes a lot of sense to me and yes I think defending his image and his performance as being an individual moment each time it's

performed is an essential part of what that performance is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I actually think it's quite rude, being terribly British about it. So yes I think he was right to ask and he's done it in a

very nice way from what I read in the article again. And I think that if his fans respect him they'll honor his wishes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe he should have one performance where everybody can take it. But for the majority of the performances I think he's quite

right. Turn your phones off.

All right well so you heard Julie Taymor there, all the people we spoke to agree with Benedict Cumberbatch but what do you think needs to be done? I

mean is this just kind of - are we - are the older generation fighting in vain? Is this just the way it's going to be in the future?

TAYMOR: No, I think they should park their cell phones at the door. I think they have to - there are many places where you can't bring your cell

phone in and I think that they should park it because it's not just the recording of it. It's also the fact that when those cameras are up its

disturbing to the audience, to the rest of the audience, you see that bright light, and it's very - it takes away from not just the actor's

performance but from the enjoyment of the audience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYMOR: And I think that we just have to solve that. And the other thing when I heard one of these people speaking, it is being recorded, it will be

shown live HD, national theatre, or whatever it is.

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TAYLOR: Live, across the world. So it's not like they're doing it for posterity, it will be done very well and people will be able to see it

taped. But I think that they have to understand that it is slightly stealing a bit of the soul.

[15:55:05] You know usually - in the old days when you took a photo of somebody who didn't know what a camera was they felt like their soul was

being taken. And this - this is - I'm not exaggerating here it really will destroy the heart and soul of the actors on that stage as they're trying to

do their work, especially as this was their first preview.

GORANI: One last one on the generational divide. When I was speaking with my team today about people in theatres filming or taking photographs of the

stage and the actors, I went to see the audience with Kristen Scott Thomas, not a single person had their phone out.

Now arguably you could say that perhaps the spectators, the theatre goers in that case were older. Is it also because Benedict Cumberbatch attracts

that much younger crowd, could that be part of it?

TAYLOR: I think that's absolutely true. Definitely he has that profile and attracts them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR: But a lot of this is about being able for people to brag and say I've been there.

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TAYLOR: It's not - it's not about them having the performance of Hamlet on their cell phone, it's really about likes. It's about I'm here you're not,

you should feel bad because I'm here. It's - there's so many disturbing things about what it means to have 30 seconds of this actor on your cell

phone has nothing to do with the play. How could you possibly be - even be listening to the play, taking it in, enjoying it, if all you're doing is

sticking up your phone and seeing if you can get a nice picture. You're just not there.

So I think it really - it really is so indicative of many things about how people are experiencing life now or in my opinion not experiencing life.

GORANI: Well there you have it, the view of a musical theatre giant on how filming things on your phone means you're not experiencing it. I mean it

does make sense doesn't it? One of the problems we have here in the studio is that I actually forget that the camera's on sometimes. We have our own

little red light and I fail to notice it. Not a good idea.

What do you think? Have your say on my Facebook about this and other stories. I updated you as well on a Human Rights Activist in Syria there

who was freed today by the regime. Facebook.com/halagoranicnn.

This has been the World Right Now, I'm Hala Gorani. Quest Means Business is next.

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