Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Donald Trump Gives First Big Speech Since Debate; Trump Still Leads the Latest Poll; Trump Leading in Iowa, New Hampshire Polls; Hillary Clinton to Turn Over Private Email Server to DOJ; Two Dozen Arrests in Ferguson. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 11, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:17] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
Tonight, a lot of firsts including Hillary Clinton agreeing to give the justice department her private email server, trying on quiet the controversy that has been hanging over her campaign for months now. And by the way, it is something she said she would not do previously.
We begin, though, with another first. Donald Trump's first big speech since the news making GOP debate. Tonight in Bergsman (ph), Michigan on the road between Flint and Saginaw which we'll go to momentarily.
Also, the first serious polling about Trump and the other GOP candidates since the debate. And for the first time that polling shows Donald Trump leading in Iowa. He says it proves he is right about how he's running the race. Some of the numbers though, not such good news as you'll see shortly but overall, good news for Donald Trump. In addition, new voices in the party calling for actions to stop him on the Republican side. All of that ahead tonight.
Let's listen in to Donald Trump live right now in Michigan.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Supposed to be a positive thing. So the American dream which we know very much it is. But I'm going to make it bigger and better. Right? So I go home and I see my wife. And she says, Malania (ph), she'll make a very beautiful first lady. I can tell you and a great first lady. She has a great heart. She cares more about those women issues that Bush doesn't care about. She cares more about that between Malania (ph) and Evanka (ph), believe me.
So I go home and my wife says to me, darling, that was a rough statement you made tonight. It is on the national news. I said what? I thought did I great. I got a standing ovation. The crowd was packed. What are you talking about? You said the American dream is dead. I said what? The American dream is dead. I said let me see it so replayed it. You know, you have this things like you think it is really great. You can replay it from ten years ago. It is unbelievable.
So here I am. I'm standing here and I'm saying, the American dream is dead. Cut. Off to the next story. I said that's terrible. That's terrible. No. It's dishonest. OK? It is very dishonest. It's true. Very dishonest.
Could I tell you stories? You know, I've always found, with financial, it is a little easier to figure. But I've always found the financial media to be pretty good, you know. You have some guys there too but pretty good. But the political media and the coverage, wow! It's tough. And I tell it to people because I want you to know. A lot of time what you're reading is just not the truthful it's just not the truth.
Now, the biggest problem with my saying that, you know, is that they will now go and report that Trump made a terrible speech, very unenthusiastic crowd. The place wasn't packed and there aren't a thousand people outside trying to get in. But who can blame them? Hey. I probably would do the same thing if I heard this.
So you look at what is going on at the border where Mexico is absolutely destroying us at the border, and others. By the way, they're coming from all over the world, people. They're going through the border. But they're coming from all over the world. They're coming from the Middle East, folks. I hate to tell you. They're coming from the Middle East. But Mexico is also brilliantly killing us on trade. Mexico is the new China. Mexico is taking plans. And for cars, it is going to be - I mean, you can forget Detroit what it used to be. This is going to make Detroit look like small potatoes in its prime. Because they're taking our factories and they're rebuilding these massive plants in Mexico.
So in Tennessee, they were going to build a plant. It was a done deal. A big German car company. Practically a done deal. At the last moment, they decided that they are going to build it in Mexico. Watch. You know how? Like here. Believe me.
So let me just tell you. Now, now we have a great company, Ford. A great company or a good company? What do you think? Good company, right? I like them. I don't blame them. I don't blame them. And it is very appropriate because I'm making this speech. I've told this story. People hate this story but they love it because it really explains it. But they hate the story. It is very depressing.
So Ford is building a $2.5 billion plant, right, in Mexico. They're building it in Mexico. So you say, now, how is that good for us? So I said to myself, right? No good. We don't have to be business geniuses to figure, well, they're building a plant. It is a massive plant, one of the biggest in the world. They are going to make all these cars, trucks, and parts. It so big, they'll make the parts, the trucks. And I actually gave them a good idea.
Why don't we just let the illegals drive the cars and trucks right into through the border? It's true. No, I gave them that, save a lot of money. That will be next. They'll be doing that next.
So they're building this massive plant. And I said to myself, OK. Let's say that Jeb Bush or Hillary or one of these politicians, all talk, no action, all controlled by lobbyists and special interests and donors. People like me from previous months, OK? Total control. Bing, bing, bong, bong, you know what that is, right? So I said let's say that Jeb Bush is president. Now, he's not a
stupid person. I agree with you, but --. You know, he was so nice to me at the debate. And by the way, they said I won the debate. Is that nice? Is that nice? The polls came out and said I won. And boy, did I have nasty questions. I stood up there and said, I don't believe this. Some of those questions. Actually, Rosie O'Donnell saved me. This is one time. She saved me. I never thought I would be giving credit to Rosie. But in this case, she was great.
But I look at what's going on. I say supposing Jeb is president. Now, he knows it's not a good thing to have a $2.5 billion plant over there and plants from Michigan and all over the place are just going, boom, let's close them up. Boom. We're going to Mexico, right? No tax no, nothing. Cars get make, no tax.
So I said, what would Jeb Bush do? He probably say that's not a good thing. And if he ever said it strongly which he wouldn't because there is no energy there. No energy. We need energy! We need tone. You know? Tone. We need tone. It's true.
Jeb and Hillary on the same day. They said Donald Trump has too strong a tone. Too strong! We have heads being chopped off because they're Christian in the Middle East. We have borders where people are being killed. The world is cracking up and they're worried about my tone. I should be toned down.
[20:05:08] COOPER: Mr. Trump's first speech since the GOP debate.
CNN's Sara Murray is there for us tonight. Describe the scene around you that you're seeing.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: This is a very fired up crowd, Anderson, tonight for Donald Trump. People are stomping on the bleachers. They're cheering. At one point, he actually got a standing ovation when he was talking about building a wall and securing the border in Mexico. I don't know if you know, people throwing back a couple beers and glasses of wine while they were waiting for Trump who was running late or just really excited to see him here in Michigan tonight.
COOPER: I understand a little while ago he addressed if he would run as a third party candidate. What did he say?
MURRAY: Yes. So there have been some rumors going around that Trump may finally dismiss this idea that he is going to make a third party run. If that is the case, Trump was clearly not ready to do it tonight. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want to run as a Republican. That's what I'm doing. I'm leading in every poll. The local and the national polls leading and by substantial margins. I hope that I will be the Republican nominee because that's the best way to win. I'm going to keep the door open on the other. If I'm not treated fairly. And the word is fairly. I want to run as a Republican. I don't want to run as a third party or as an independent. I want to run as Republican as long as I'm treated fairly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now, Anderson, you can see, it is clear Donald Trump wants to hold out this leverage over the Republican Party. He's not ready to dismiss the third party run and he knows how disruptive that could be to the GOP.
COOPER: He also talked about how he thinks he will do with Hispanic voters and female voters, right?
MURRAY: Yes, and that's when (INAUDIBLE) fiery exchanges with Megyn Kelly on the debate state and his comments afterwards. But if he is worried about it, he is certainly not showing it. He is coming out tonight and says he will do great with women. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:10:08] TRUMP: We're going to do very well with the Hispanic vote. We'll do great with the women vote. If you look in Nevada, they can the poll and I'm leading in the Hispanic vote because I create jobs and I'm going to go and I will be creating tremendous numbers of jobs.
So I think we are going to do great. And then the women's health issues, I'm for that. I watched Jeb Bush give the worst answer the other day. I think that's going to be his 47 percent. Now, he then went and he said he misspoke. How do you misspeak about that? I will be great on women's health issues. I cherish women. And I will be great on women's health issues. Believe me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: And Trump doubled down on that attack on Jeb Bush here tonight in front of this crowd. I do want to know, I talked to a couple of the women in attendance ahead of this event and they said they don't think that Donald Trump is going to suffer with women. They thought the debate was just politics as usual and they are still on team Trump.
Back to you, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Sara Murray, thanks very much.
I want to get perspective from our chief political analyst Gloria Borger, senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash, and senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson.
It is interesting, first of all, Dana, let me start with you. It is interesting to see Trump - I mean, he clearly is very relaxed. He is giving - he is hitting on a number of themes using comments he said before. But overall, does it seem to you he sort of has begun to shift a little bit since this controversy that occurred in the last couple days over the debate? DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Look,
right now he is feeding off the crowd just like an entertainer does or, you know, to be fair, a politician does. He is having fun. You can see that with it his gestures. You can hear that with what he is saying.
COOPER: And they're clearly enjoying him as well.
BASH: And they are clearly enjoying him, absolutely. It is a two-way street. The press conference that he gave before, Sara showed a couple clips from that, I was really struck, Anderson, by how mellow he was. He actually was praising some of the reporters on their questions. Now I'm sure they weren't total soft balls. I'm sure they were questions, you know, maybe not as tough as he got in the debate but they were real questions. And it was a very different vibe that he was putting out there at that press conference. And it really struck me as something that could not have been just chance.
COOPER: And Gloria, he was also, during the press conference very focused on issues to the extent, you know, there wasn't a deep dog on a lot of things. But on China, on trade, for Donald Trump, there was a deep dive on a number of issues more than one traditionally hears.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, he said in a couple weeks we are going to have some plans. But I want to tell you what I know with the businessman is that you can't have a 19-point plan because, you know, situations are going to change.
So, you know, we didn't hear a lot of details. It was kind of a stream of consciousness just like this speech but the message was, trust me. Because I'm a success and I want America to succeed and I want you to succeed. And for right now, if you look at the audience and you talk to people who are Trump supporters, that seems to be enough. I don't know how long that will last because his opponents are going to start attacking him from the right as they started doing today saying, you know, he's an imposter. He is not a real Republican. So he is going to have to answer them. But no invective tonight, as Dana was pointing out. He's clearly taken a turn.
COOPER: And Nia, even Scott Walker now is starting to attack Donald Trump. Something he had been holding back from doing. Clearly, I guess he wasn't happy with the way maybe he came out of that debate and feels he needs to be more aggressive.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. Scott Walker is taking him on. Rand Paul was taking him on as well. He, of course, did take him on face-to-face in that debate in Cleveland.
I think the big question is Jeb Bush start to take him on in any substantial way? He did go down and criticize him. He went to the Red State Convention that Trump was disinvited to and criticized again Donald Trump for his tone, his comments about Megyn Kelly. But when they are on that debate stage, what does Jeb Bush do?
I think this criticism of Jeb Bush that Donald Trump is lobbying, that he lacks energy and he lacks passion. That's credible criticism and it is criticism that you hear from, you know, sort of Republican pundits and Republican strategists who say this is a guy, Bush, who rolled out the sort of shock and awe campaign. And now all of the sudden, it is sort of a shock and uh-huh in many ways because he was sort of bystander in that last debate and the poll reflect that.
COOPER: Yes. And Dana, you know, it is interesting. I had Roger Stone on the program last night who over the weekend was either fired by the Trump campaign or resigned depending on whom you believe. His take on it, he wasn't bad-mouthing Trump, but he was saying he doesn't believe that Trump should kind of get into these feuds in a deep way. That it brings Trump into a cul-de-sac. That he should stay on kind of big picture issues, on immigration and things which have gotten him where he is, you know, high ranking in the polls. Leading now pretty much all the polls.
It does seem, whether or not it was Roger Stone's influence or not. It does seem like Trump is attempting to do that. There has been some sort of (INAUDIBLE) with FOX. Clearly there was a phone call with Roger Ailes. It seems like he is trying to kind of reposition now or kind of retake the -- change the focus over what has been the last couple days.
[20:15:39] BASH: It does seem like. That having said that, Anderson, you know, you and I talked after I interviewed him in New York a couple weeks ago. And you and I both had that same feeling from him in a way he was talking to me that he is sort of more zen. That he wasn't as bombastic and then he was pushed and he pushed right back.
So the question is, if he does do this as a strategy, whether or not he has, you know, the will power to sustain that, to not do the kind of hit back that he is used to doing, that he did for years and years and years, when he was just kind of a celebrity billionaire, whether it was Rosie O'Donnell or anybody else who --.
COOPER: In which, by the way, a lot of his supporters like.
BASH: They love it, absolutely.
Dana, thank you. Gloria Borger, Nia-Malika Henderson.
Now more on the actual polls that have come out now since the debate. The poll that show Donald Trump out ahead for the first time in Iowa. They also do contain some signs that his support across the board might have some limits. But we want to kind of look at these numbers deeply because there is a lot of information to read in them.
Chief national correspondent John King has been sifting the new data. He joins us and he's finding out by the numbers -- John.
So John, what if any effect has the first debate had on trump's poll numbers?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, he is leading in the two key first states, Iowa and New Hampshire. But we have to put him on the watch list, if you will. If you look at this, the Suffolk University poll in Iowa, Trump at 17,
Scott Walker at 12, Marco Rubio moving up to 10 percent. Trump at 17 percent. Now, we are comparing the Suffolk poll to NBC/Marist poll. But that's the same number trump was at pre-debate. So he didn't bump up. He is in first place now. He was in second in the fire poll, but he held steady at 17 percent. So keep an eye on that. He can say he's leading. Some people say it might be the signs of a bit of a decline.
Let's move to New Hampshire. Again, Trump on top at 18 percent. But in the other polls conducted just before the debate, he was up in the 20s. So, is Trump coming down a little bit or is the field just shaking out? We have to keep an eye on this. He can certainly make the case, Anderson. He is still in first place. It is Bush, then Kasich behind him in New Hampshire.
Let's look deeper into the numbers about Trump. Favorable, unfavorable. In Iowa, 45 percent say favorable, 37 unfavorable. Split in New Hampshire. 46-46. Those aren't great, but they're not bad especially when you compare to some of the other candidate.
Here's where you see some questions for Trump's post-debate. In Iowa, 55 percent of Republicans in this brand new poll say they're less comfortable with Donald Trump's candidacy after the controversial debate performance, 23 percent say they're more comfortable. But that's a big number, 55 percent less comfortable.
And moving on to New Hampshire, 41 percent say they like some of Trump's ideas but they don't think he has the temperament. Lacks the temperament to be president of the United States, 29 percent in New Hampshire said they support him at all. So Anderson, that's 70 percent, 41 plus 29, 70 percent of New Hampshire Republicans say I don't support him at all or I don't think he has the temperament to be president. That means not as much from growth.
COOPER: And back in 2012, I mean, I remember, we saw the Republican race change pretty significantly from debate to debate. Have there been any shift in terms of the rest of the field? I saw Fiorina look likes she move up a little bit.
KING: She did. And that's the most noticeable one and there are several. But let's go first to Carly Fiorina. You mentioned her. In Iowa, she was in seventh. She is in seventh place now, at seven percent. She was nowhere at the bottom of the pack before that. In New Hampshire, at nine percent which puts her in fifth place, not at the top, but still she has jumped up dramatically. Why? Because of her performance.
The people who watched the afternoon, the junior varsity debate or the second tier debate, look at this number. Who impressed you the most? She was the runaway winner, 82 percent say she most impressed them during afternoon debate. And again in Iowa, should Carly Fiorina be invited into the top tier debate next time? Ninety three percent of Iowa Republican said yes, she should be. So she gets the biggest bounce. If you go back to the other poll and look, you know, Marco Rubio moved
up in Iowa here. Ted Cruz no doing bad in Iowa here. Scott Walker, that's a bit of a trouble mark for him in Iowa. Keep an eye on that post-debate. But, just like 2012, a shake-up after the debate.
And then in New Hampshire, the man getting the most attention is John Kasich. He, again, has been moving up steadily. Now in third place in New Hampshire. Ted Cruz also up a bit in New Hampshire and there's the Carly Fiorina number.
So we will see what happens after our debate a month from now. But no question, just like 2012, Republicans watch that debate, they reassess.
COOPER: John King. Thanks, John.
KING: Thank you.
COOPER: As much support as Donald Trump has among primary voters, there are a number of Republicans who say Trump has to be stopped for the health of the GOP. They say his brand of politics is toxic to the party.
Coming up, we'll look more on that. How a top Trump insider answers critics like that.
We are live the next two hours. There is so much politics on the stories tonight. Stick around.
[20:23:15] COOPER: Donald Trump speaking tonight in Michigan. We played a lot of that at the top of the broadcast. He is ending the day, you can surrounded by supporters. A lot of people very happy to see him there in Michigan. He began the day in the company of skeptics. He appeared on FOX and friends after apparently bearing the hatchet with FOX News' boss Roger Ailes. No one asked him about his debate dust-up with Megyn Kelly. He talk about his tone with "NEW DAY's'" Chris Cuomo this morning after columnist Rich Lowery and Rupert Murdoch's "New York" post called him quote "the most fabulous whiner in all of American politics."
Here's Trump's answer. And some of the key moments from Chris's interview.
TRUMP: I do whine because I want to win. And I'm not happy --
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are whiners winners?
TRUMP: And I am a whiner and I am a whiner and I keep whining and whining until I win. And I'm going to win for the country and I'm going to make our country great again. Our country right now is a debtor nation. We have airports to the third world airport. We have roadways that are falling apart. We have bridges that are coming down and that are unsafe. Sixty percent of the bridges in this country need work and they're unsafe. CUOMO: How do you pass that infrastructure? How do you work with
government? You can't just come back at everybody.
TRUMP: Chris, I've been better in working this government. I have made, Chris, I'm worth more than $10 billion. I've been working with government all my life.
CUOMO: But you've also been very rough on people over the years. It has worked for you. But in politics it is a little different.
TRUMP: Well, sometimes you have to be rough, though, Chris.
CUOMO: I know. But you can't always be rough.
TRUMP: I know you and your brother. And your brother is a rough cookie, OK, and he is a good guy.
CUOMO: And there's a price for being rough --
TRUMP: And you get things done. You're a rough guy.
CUOMO: A lot of people judge you for what you say because they don't have the policy ideas to test you on. And that's going to be something that will have to test you.
TRUMP: Chris, I have policy and I know policy better than anybody.
[20:25:02] CUOMO: But you have to give the ideas, Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: You can't just go and say we are going to do with is. It has to be flexible. I know policy better than anybody. I know politics as well as anybody. I've been doing it all my life and I have been doing it from the other side. In a certain way it gives you a better perspective. But you will see what will happen.
COOPER: Donald Trump with "NEW DAY's" Chris Cuomo now.
Joining us, Michael Cohen, Trump organization's executive vice president and special counsel to Donald Trump.
You have to be happy about the polls that have come out.
MICHAEL COHEN, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Very happy. And the post-debate numbers that came out show Mr. Trump leading.
You know, it is interesting. I was watching the guy go through the numbers on the poll, 18 percent, number two, at 12 percent. You know, it's funny. There is an old expression. Numbers don't lie. People do. It is how you want to play with the numbers. The thing I see, I see he's leading the number two guy by 33 percent. He is very happy. And we expect him to stay there. And we do expect him to be the GOP nominee. COOPER: We had Roger Stern on the program last night. And I don't
want to get into who fired who, who quit, whatever. That's sort irrelevant. One of the things he was saying and he was saying very positive things about Donald Trump.
COHEN: He and Mr. Trump still remain friends and they probably will post this, whatever happens.
COOPER: Yes. He said they have a long history. They have done up and down. But one of the things he was saying I thought was very interesting and it, he was saying he didn't believe that Donald Trump should get into this sort of, you know, this fight with Megyn Kelly and FOX. That it brings the campaign into what he described as a cul- de-sac where is the campaign should stay big and on the big broad make America great again slogan and ideas, which is where Trump has gotten where he is and folks on illegal immigration.
Whether or not this is because of Roger Stone or whether this id Donald Trump's doing, it does seem like just in the last day, that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing. Just watching him tonight, talking to the press, watching him in Michigan. He is comfortable. I mean, he is making jokes. The crowd is liking it. But he is talking about his experience as a businessman and what he has learned from that. Whether he is going into deep specifics on what the policy issue was going to be in the Trump administration, he is talking more as a candidate about issues which he is going to have to deal with. Is that a conscious thing, do you think?
COHEN: Donald Trump is a wonderful speaker. An incredibly bright guy. I'm sure Roger must have said to him, you know, I think you should bring the tone down. Donald Trump doesn't listen to anybody except for himself. And he is only going to be himself. The guy is the highest paid speaker that is out there on the circuit. He is really comfortable speaking. He is really comfortable speaking before large audiences especially in places like Michigan.
He understands the problems going on in Detroit. He understands the problems going on in Michigan. What is killing him, and it is the reason why he is running. It is the reason for his slogan, make America great again. You have a plant that is going to be built in Mexico. That plan should be in Detroit. The money should be going to Michigan. Their economy thrives off the auto industry.
COOPER: The campaign. How are decisions made in this campaign? All campaigns grow. People come. People go. But it seems to me that this is a relatively small intense group that Donald Trump has at this stage in the campaign. And, you know, he is not, I mean, he is spending time tonight in Michigan. He's been in Iowa. Obviously, been in New Hampshire. But it is very New York based. And yet, he is able to, however he does it. Capture the company. He has defied the laws of political gravity.
COHEN: Donald Trump is a phenomenon. This campaign will go down in history as a phenomenon and I expect my grandchildren will one day in a poly-sci (ph) class. COOPER: But at this point, I mean, how are decisions made? Is it top
down him kind of deciding? You know what, my gut tell me, let's do this.
COHEN: Very much the way he runs the organization, top down. And there is input from other people. No one man can do everything by himself.
But, you know, a friend of mind from Michigan called me up today and he said to me something very interesting. When he sits in his window and he was talking for all people in Michigan. And we see the politicians going down the street, in his mind, the politicians are looking at poverty. They're at trouble. They're looking at real tough issues they're going to have to handle. When Donald Trump is driving, the same person sitting in the window. They see Donald Trump's feeling is opportunity and hope. It is a totally different mindset.
COOPER: You're saying there is an aspirational feeling that people link into.
COHEN: Yes. And that is exactly what he has tap in to.
COOPER: I want to ask but something that Rand Paul said. So I got to say I was surprised by this comment that he said. And I don't know if Donald Trump has responded to it yet or if he plans to. Rand Paul was asked, I guess Donald Trump tweeted something about Rand Paul saying, he was a spoiled brat. Paul said today quote "if we're talking about who is a spoiled brat or not, my two kids work minimum wage jobs. Do you think the Trump kids have been working at the local Pizza Hut?"
I was surprised that he brought so Donald Trump's kids into this.
COHEN: It's a nasty comment by a guy who is clearly frustrated. He feels that as a politician, that he is automatically entitled to the numbers. He is automatically entitled to be, you know, I'm taken seriously in this political arena. Who was Donald Trump to come in and to do anything? Who was he to be the front-runner for seven weeks? So he is angry. And do you know what? Not a nice comment. The children are great kids. Mr. Trump has raised wonderful children. All of them. And they should not be a target.
COOPER: Who do you - who does the campaign see as their biggest threat in terms of opposition? In terms of from the GOP side?
COHEN: I don't think we see any of them as a threat. Maybe the media.
COOPER: But really, you don't - there's not a board in the office with like - OK, today we are going to focus on Scott Walker. Today - because Walker now, it seems like he's going after Trump. Today we are going to focus on Jeb Bush. It doesn't work that way.
COHEN: No. Not at all. Not at all. And again, one of the reasons for this whole issue that took place with Fox, one thing Mr. Trump only wants is to be treated fairly. COOPER: What does that mean to Donald Trump to be treated fairly?
COHEN: He wants to be treated the same way everybody else is treated. He is not looking for them to come at him. Don't be a part of the Rand Paul's or the Scott Walker's attacks against Mr. Trump, because he is not establishment.
COOPER: Do you expect - I mean there has been talk about position paper that's may be put out. Sort of putting more meat on the bone. Do you expect to see that in the coming weeks?
COHEN: Well, look. Donald Trump is a really smart guy. And he understands the positions. The problem is positions change on a daily basis. What happens and what's good today.
COOPER: Well, that seems to be his message tonight, which is actually an interesting, critics can say it is an interesting way to avoid giving specifics.
COHEN: It's not.
COOPER: Supporters will say ...
COHEN: It's not. It's - right now, we have, what? 19 trillion of debt? 15 million unemployed, 45 million on food stamps. We can go on and on about all the problems, as Mr. Trump will say, crumbling bridges, we have roadways of the third world. Who caused this? Not Donald Trump. They're the problem. Donald Trump is the solution.
COOPER: One of the things I found very interesting to hear him talk about tonight, and I think it seems effective, certainly to the crowd tonight. Him talking about his own personal business experiences, whether it's some resort, which I forget the name in Florida or the post office in Washington. The Washington - he said all these people wanted to build it. I went down there, I punched and I punched and I got it. I think that seems - people respond to that.
COHEN: Absolutely. Why would they not respond - Donald Trump is the quintessential deal maker. Possibly the best deal maker in the history of this country. What is America looking for? They're looking for job security. They're looking for a good life. They're looking to be able to leave something better for their children than they have right now. Without someone like Donald Trump, we are not going to have it.
COOPER: We'll see how the message holds up. Michael Cohen, it's always great.
COHEN: Always great to see you.
COOPER: Thank you.
When we come back, what is driving the Trump ground? So, Gary Tuchman talks to people who waited, some of them just about all day for a chance to see Donald Trump speak there tonight. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They gave it a big beautiful renewal. 28 shows. I think it was 28, but a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Donald Trump just wrapped up tonight in Michigan. Earlier today, a former George W. Bush adviser and Washington Post columnist Michael Gerson wrote a piece that's getting a lot of talk tonight about why Donald Trump will flame out and why Republicans need to make it happen sooner rather than later. He joins us to expand on that along with CNN senior political analyst David Gergen.
Michael, you make the argument that it's inevitable that Donald Trump is essentially going to implode, or going to fade. Why do you think that?
MICHAEL GERSON, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, this is silly season. It is early. There are six months until any vote here. Donald Trump has had saturation media coverage and he has universal name recognition and this is a large field. And that has yielded the result that we've seen. But I do think it's going to be important for Republicans to confront him sooner rather than later, because his brand is really toxic for the Republican Party. And the longer this goes, the more likely he is to pursue a third party candidacy, which I think would be the ultimate problem for Republicans. It could easily cost them the election.
COOPER: You think the longer he is out on that stage, getting that attention, he is not going to want to give that up?
GERSON: Yes. I think, you know, at some point you convince yourself that you can be president of the United States, you can hear hail to the chief. If Donald Trump reaches that's point, he may well try to do a third party candidacy. But if he is marginalized early, which I think is likely. Then I think that worst outcome for Republicans becomes less likely.
COOPER: David, do you agree with Michael that the idea that Republicans have to basically, if they want to try to weaken Trump now, or even get him out of the race, they have to start hitting him harder and sooner?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I don't. Michael has written an awfully good column and I think everyone should read it. But I sense, Anderson, Trump is defying gravity. As you said last night. He is going to come down. But if you - if the Republicans get, everyone gets to attack him, what it's going to be, it's just an extended debate going past last Thursday night on into the future and into August and into September.
And if they were to force him out early, I think by beating up on him, I think that he would be more likely to run the third party candidacy if he feels victimized. Everybody gangs up on him. I think he is more likely to run third party. If on the other hand, the candidates almost to a person begin putting forward what they believe. What their agendas are. What they would like to see happen in a way, say, John Kasich has.
GERGEN: That seem to be a much smarter way to deal with them. Let the press beat up on him. There are plenty of commentators out there right now who are going after him day after day after day. He - I think he to an extent enjoys that. The jousting. He likes the attention. But I don't think it is the right strategy for all the Republican candidates to start - trying to force him out of the race right now.
COOPER: Michael, what about that? I mean do you risk kind of doing more harm? You know, kind of poking somebody who is more than willing to fight back and fight back twice as hard?
GERSON: Well, I think Republicans have seen what happens when they don't really confront him. And he takes the stage and knows how to take it. I think there's a serious issue here. This is not all fun and games for the Republican Party. There is one type of populism that is kind of against Obamacare. Is concerned about government's role in our life. And the Republican Party has incorporated that populism, the Tea Party populism. There is another kind of populism that is xenophobic. That is - the resentment of outsiders, of Mexico and China and immigrants. That's more like a European right wing party, or National Front in France. Republicans can't incorporate that. They have to make clear that there are lines here. This is not the party. And that is going to take, I think, a serious early effort to define that clearly.
COOPER: Michael Gerson, again, I recommend people read your piece. David Gergen, thank you.
Coming up tonight breaking news in the Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation. Late today, an announcement that she will turn her private server over to the Justice Department. Something she had said she would not do previously. That's next.
COOPER: More breaking news tonight, Hillary Clinton handing over to the Justice Department the private e-mail server she used while she was secretary of state. She is also handing over copies of her work- related e-mails, which she's already given to the State Department. Joining me to talk about this and more, CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, the CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Paul Begala, co-chair of a pro-Hillary Clinton super-PAC and a long-time adviser to former president Bill Clinton in the 1990s.
Jeff, this news that Hillary Clinton is turning over her server, she previously said she was not going to do that. Didn't she? JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: She did, Anderson. She was very defiant in that. Remember that press conference she had back at the United Nations? It was back in March. Some five months ago, and she said that server will remain private. Well, a lot has happened since then. This has just really been series of ongoing issues with this email. The congressional investigation is still underway. Now the FBI just a week ago was wanting to look at that server, that private email server, to see if there was any classified information on it. To see how it was protected.
So this is a vast difference from what she said a few months ago, because the reality is, this has had an impact on her campaign. It has affected the credibility, how voters view her. Her trust and honesty. So to me, by making this sudden change of heart here is the first big acknowledgment that the Clinton campaign actually realizes this has been a potential problem and they want to try and move on with it as quickly as possible.
COOPER: This drip aspect of the whole email controversy. How - to Jeff's point, how big of a problem is it? Getting - I mean hitting at those incredibly important issues of how much people can trust her?
PAUL BEGALA, CO-CHAIR, PRO-HILLARY CLINTON SUPERPCOOPER: Well, people are always going to attack any politician. But this is a good example of what we in Clinton land have always called the Clinton rules. Remember how we all freaked out and there were government investigations when Mitt Romney left the governor's office in Massachusetts and he and his top aides all wiped out and destroyed all of their computers, and all of their files. No, there was no outcry, actually. They didn't just like keep private servers. They destroyed them. All of the computer records. And nobody cared. But OK. Hillary is a Clinton, so we'll hold her to a different standard. That's fine. I think it is good that they're doing it, but let's look at it and move on to the next thing. At some point we're actually going to talk about issues that matter to people.
COOPER: You don't think this issue matters to people. I mean it certainly seems to when you see - I mean you look at polls probably closer than anybody. But when you see her unfavorability ratings, when you see the kind of a lack of trust people have in her, you don't think this affects that.
BEGALA: I don't think that's what drives the election. I think what drives - and voters have one question, what are you going to do for me, for my family, for my country? It's three questions. Sorry. But that's what they care about. And she's breaking through. I thought her position this week on student loan reform and college debt. Trying to let middle class and poor kids go to college debt-free. Much more important. And it's going to matter a lot more when we get into the real election a year of 2016. They're going to have to clear out this underbrush. That's fine. Once again, Hillary. As you know, there is a different set of rules for you. Different standard for you. Fine. She'll rise to that standard. But it's not fair. Let's not pretend it's fair.
COOPER: Jeff, it does go to all the criticisms that have been leveled at the Clintons over the years. That I mean, you know, Paul can say it's a different set of rules. And her critics will say she lives by a different set of rules.
ZELENY: You are absolutely right. And that's why we are in this position to begin with, because she decided to use a private server back in January of 2009, she made the decision for whatever reason. She said it was for convenience. She used a private server. So, that's why this is still being discussed and that's why, Anderson, this is going to be discussed through Iowa, through New Hampshire, for however long it's going to be. Whether it's fair or not, it is reality. And the Clinton campaign is acknowledging that reality today by finally handing over that private server.
COOPER: I want to ...
GERSON: And you think, Jeff - If I may say - I worked in the government. I think everybody who works in the government should use a government server. I think Jeff is right. He didn't say, but - I think that was a mistake. I think everybody who works in the government should use government e-mail. But where I disagree, we'd be talking about something else. I'm old enough to remember. I work in the Clinton White House. There was a congressional investigation, lasting over a year looking into the Clintons' Christmas card list. Christmas card list. Anything that the Republicans can use to try on tarnish them. They literally investigated their Christmas card list. So, we would be arguing about some other trumped up investigation, if it wasn't for this. But he should have used government e-mail.
GERSON: I think that's a valid point.
COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, Paul Begala. Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up in this hour, police release surveillance video they say shows 18-year-old Tyrone Harris pulling out a gun in Ferguson two nights ago. Harris, you may remember, was injured in a shoot-out with police Sunday night. His family had denied that he actually had a gun. You will see what the video actually shows. The latest from Ferguson, next.
COOPER: Welcome back. About two dozen arrests in Ferguson late last night into the early morning hours. Various acts of violence surrounding the one-year anniversary to killing of Michael Brown. And today St. Louis police released surveillance video that they say shows 18-year-old Tyrone Harris pulling out a gun two nights ago. He was wounded in a shoot-out with police Sunday night. We may have, we have not independently confirmed this is Harris in the video, but that's what the St. Louis County police are saying. Sara Sidner joins us now from Ferguson. So, talk about what police are in particular saying about the surveillance video they released, because the family of this young man, at least his aunt as I recall, said he did not have a gun.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's correct. She said that he was unarmed.
SIDNER: This is video from West Florissant where the shootings, several of them, happened overnight on Sunday night into Monday morning. And what you see there, people are scattering. That's after the initial gun shots went off. But then suddenly you see a figure, a man, pulling a gun from his waist band and then holding it and running with it. Police say that person is Tyrone Harris and they say it is the same person who eventually ended up shooting at police and police shot back hitting him several times. He is still in critical condition in the hospital, but he is alive. His family again, earlier before all this came out said that they did not believe that he was armed, that he was shot, it was the wrong person at the wrong time in the wrong place. But this video, police say, shows otherwise. Anderson?
COOPER: There is also more information coming out about Tyrone Harris from his Facebook account, correct?
SIDNER: That's right. Police say that they are investigating this Facebook account that is named Ty Glock, Glock's being - Glock being the name of a firearm. And on that account, there are numerous pictures of someone holding a gun. This particular picture, police are looking at, they say they believe this is actually Tyrone Harris holding those two guns sitting on the couch there. Using this in their investigation into him and, of course, into the shooting that happened overnight Sunday night and to Monday morning.
COOPER: All right. Sara. Sara Sidner. Thank you from Ferguson tonight. An update on the breaking news, at the top of the hour, Donald Trump speaking at his first major campaign event since the debate. Still leaving the door open to a third party run, still taking shots at his opponents. Highlights and analysis when we continue.