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What Will Trump Do If/When He Wins; Inmates Allege Torture, Abuse from Guards after Upstate N.Y. Escape; Massive Explosion in China. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired August 12, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: He talked swimmingly about how he would get along with Vladimir Putin. But he had never held public office before.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's move on to his plan to build a wall from keeping the "bad dudes" -- a direct quote -- from crossing over into Mexico. Here's what he said on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: It's 100 percent they're going to pay. If they don't pay -- it will be paid, but we need the wall. We have to stop these killers from coming in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: He says, case in point, of success, look at the Great Wall of China.
LEE: Immigration is the issue that has propelled Trump to the top, but there are some holes in the way he has talked about how he would address illegal immigration. The first question is this wall. How would you pay for it? He's been asked this over and over again. I think he has literally said they will just give us the money. Where does he get that confidence from?
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Who is the "they"?
LEE: Right. Who is the "they"? Maybe it will be a -- look, I got this. They're going to pay for it, so don't worry about it. The second question is what to do about the millions of undocumented immigrants currently in the country. That's the question that dogged him and an area where conservatives said he is not the conservative, he says that he is. He talks a good game but when you look into the details of what he talks about and how he talks about illegal immigration, he is not so conservative and haven't always had that record.
BALDWIN: OK. Next, Donald Trump, in an interview, proposed health savings accounts to replace Obamacare and this is where his opponents have accused him of the flip-flop. LEE: Right. Another area where he has a record in the past doesn't
necessarily line up with where he says he is now. Look, Obamacare is also an issue where Republicans -- it's easy for them to say we will repeal the law, and Trump has said that. He has said, the first day in the White House, I will get rid of the law, but also said, I will repeal and replace with something terrific. So what is that something terrific? What are the actual policy proposals that you would get to make sure that the millions of people who are currently insured and benefiting from Obamacare that they would be taken care of?
BALDWIN: M.J. Lee, thank you very much. He keeps saying wait until the next debate, I'll give you the details. We'll see.
Thank you.
Next new fallout from Upstate New York. The inmates left behind are telling they're own stories about allegations of beatings and torture and even, in one case, a death threat as these frustrated prisoners search for answers.
Plus, a picture of a massive explosion. Dozens of people injured. Where is this and what's happening? We'll have the details for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:37:21] BALDWIN: Clinton Correctional Facility -- you know the name by now. -- that prison in Upstate New York where those two inmates, convicted killers, escaped back in June. Now some correctional officers are facing allegations of prisoner abuse. Complaints that several officers assaulted, tortured, and even placed inmates in solitary confinement for weeks on end. This started the day after the escape was held. The allegations are these guards went on a, quote, "campaign of retribution."
The reporter who broke the story, Michael Schwartz, is with me now in New York. Also, with me, Karen Mutagh, the executive director of Prisoners' Legal Services of New York, the organization where the complaints were filed.
Welcome to both of you.
Michael, congrats on a phenomenal piece of journalism.
We're starting to hear these stories. Let me begin with a man named Patrick Alexander, who was in a cell adjacent to these two guys, what did he tell you?
MICHAEL SCHWARTZ, REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: He was living next door to Richard Matt, and on the morning these two were found missing, obviously, he's in a position to know something or at least that's what correction officers and investigators suspected.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHWARTZ: These individuals cut large holes in the back of their cells. He was interrogated several times throughout the day and towards evening was taken for interrogation but this time instead of the standard interrogation he was used to he was taken to a broom closet, beaten up by what he claims three correction officers he says that he had his head slammed against the pipes in the room, had a plastic bag put over his face and was punched in his face as correction officers shouted questions trying to get information about where these two were headed or what they had in mind. When he claimed he didn't know anything, he said the beatings got worse.
BALDWIN: And there was another inmate in the piece who talked about how he was tossed in solitary confinement for a number of weeks, and when he went back to his cell, a lot of his belongings were missing including his wedding rings.
Karen, how many complaints has your office received or letters?
KAREN MUTAGH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PRISONERS' LEGAL SERVICES OF NEW YORK: Well, it's now up to 71 complaints that we received.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Wow. What are common themes in those letters, complaints and also, what are you seeing as far as inmates being pressured to sign statements that they were not abused?
MUTAGH: Well, common themes are we were whisked away in the middle of the night, taken to other facilities, put in solitary confinement, without any disciplinary report or any due process and held in solitary confinement for three to four weeks with only the clothes on their back, in the same underwear they were in when they were taken from Clinton. Not given any phone privileges, not given any stamps to write, which is a great concern of ours because PLS was created to be a voice for prisoners who need a voice on the outside, and they were unable to reach us for a significant amount of time.
(CROSSTALK)
[14:40:54] BALDWIN: Please continue.
MUTAGH: And other complaints were similar to what Mike just mentioned to you in terms of being beaten. One individual said they took a plastic bag and tied it around his throat in an attempt to suffocate him. So those are the types of complaints we have been seeing.
BALDWIN: Let me jump in. This is what Clinton Correctional Facility, how they responded to your piece. They said, "The complaints have been referred to the state attorney general. Any finding of misconduct will be punished to the full extent of the law."
I had a question for you, Michael, on the Honor Block where these two lived. One of the details that came about during the whole search was a lot of times overnight these correctional officers were asleep and inmates joked that were the cockroaches. Do the inmates think that's the issue?
SCHWARTZ: This is investigators who have suggested that there was nobody patrolling those cell blocks between the hours of say midnight and 5: 00 in the morning when they have their first count. Investigators believe not just inmates that this allowed Mr. Sweat, I think, primarily, they think now, to spend hours night after night for a number of months even going into the cat walks and boring into the tunnels looking for a way out and eventually found this steam pipe that led to his escape. It is unclear at this point at what point Matt and Sweat carved the holes in the back of their cells. That obviously would have caused a fair bit of noise. They apparently used hacksaws to do so. Another inmate we talked to said they heard nothing and it's clear for anybody is sawing somebody would have heard something.
BALDWIN: Even Governor Cuomo, asking that.
Karen, final question to you. You're reading through all these complaints and you hear what the prison system is saying. How is this fixed and what happens with these inmates who say they have been abused?
MUTAGH: Well, we will investigate all of the allegations. Right now they're just allegations. We'll interview witnesses and the clients. Foil documents. If these allegations prove to be true, we would represent them in advocacy and litigation if necessary to make them whole. But the department of corrections is also doing their own internal investigation. The commissioner has been very responsive to our complaints and I think that we need more oversight, we need more transparency and may have to work on changing the culture of the prisons. But it doesn't happen overnight. It's going to take a lot of work. A lot of training. And we just have to do it because we never want something like this to happen again.
BALDWIN: Karen, let me follow up, and I promise I'm finished. I'm curious, you mentioned the 71 complaints you received, do the correctional officers, do those within the facility, do they know when these inmates write these complaints? Are the inmates flagged?
MUTAGH: They may or may not know. There's an internal grievance process where a prisoner, if the he is harmed, is required to file a grievance in order to exhaust his administrative remedies before he can go in to court. They may find out through that. But they should not find out through a prisoner writing to us because they're not allowed to read legal mail.
BALDWIN: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: I was just wondering as far as potential punishment or allegations, have they got worse based on the complaints.
We'll leave it here.
Karen Mutagh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
And, Michael Schwartz, with "The New York Times," thank you.
SCHWARTZ: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Really appreciate it.
MUTAGH: Thank you for having me.
[14:45:10] BALDWIN: Breaking news into CNN. We have got this video. This is a massive exPLOsion you're about to see. It was felt and heard miles and miles away. Dozens of people reportedly injured. We will take you there live and explain what happened, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:49:55] BALDWIN: Breaking news out of China. A massive explosive that rocked the city of Tianjin in the northern part of the country. Multiple injuries reported.
Will Ripley is live in China. He's on the phone.
Will, what happened?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, we just learned from the Public Security Ministry that there were firefighters fighting a chemical fire, a city of 15 million people. This chemical fire, as the fighters were on scene, exploded and this fireball and mushroom cloud and tremors were felt several miles away from the scene. We're told enough to jolt people awake in the city. Thankfully, the area where it happened was relatively a new development separated from the downtown area. It's still too soon to know the cause. We know that 18 firefighting teams are on the scene right now and firefighters missing, and that have been injured, and an unknown number of other casualties right now. We're seeing gruesome videos surfacing showing people lying on the ground. Just don't know if those people are unconscious or something worse has happened.
We are on the way. As soon as we get more information, we'll let you know.
BALDWIN: Will Ripley, thank you so much in Beijing.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(EXPLOSION)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:32] BALDWIN: Since I know you are glued to your TV's each Thursday night watching our original series "The Seventies," tomorrow night, it's all about music, from disco to rock, punk, and everything in between.
My colleague, Bill Weir, has the best job at CNN, when he's not traveling the works, he talks to rock stars, like singer, Sheryl Crow. They talked about the '70s. They were just kids during that decade. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHERYL CROW, SINGER: Yes. Records. This is what you did.
BILL WEIR, CNN HOST: Yes.
CROW: You went like this.
WEIR: As, kids, don't you remember sitting down on the floor and peeling the plastic off for the first time?
CROW: I do. I remember unzipping the zipper of Sticky Fingers.
(LAUGHTER)
(SHOUTING)
CROW: Yeah, it was an event.
WEIR: Let's go through them. Graham Parsons.
CROW: Graham Parsons? Yeah, there was a whole period of country music for me that was Emmy Lou Harris and Graham Parsons and the Rolling Stones. The first two Fleetwood Mac records were monumental for me. It was the first time I heard and seen a woman go out in front of a band and really rock and, yet, keep her womanliness.
1970, I was eight years old. For 10 years I got to experience what it was like to hear every different kind of music on the radio.
WEIR: The '60s was about peace and love. '70s was about the hangover and the walk of shame a little bit.
CROW: Yeah. Short of switched mid '70s into a more corporate sound. It wasn't as emotional. It was more sort of calculated. And then you had the introduction with the Bee Gees to disco music.
WEIR: What did you think of disco?
CROW: My memory was getting grounded for sneaking out and going to see "Saturday Night Fever".
WEIR: You were too young.
CROW: I'm too young, yes. I mean --
WEIR: That was risque stuff.
CROW: It was risque stuff.
(SINGING)
CROW: Just makes me sound like I was born in the dark ages --
(LAUGHTER) -- but we would dial the radio on Sunday nights to Chicago to get "King Biscuit Hour." That's when we heard what was happening.
WEIR: What was your first live show?
CROW: Peter Frampton.
(SINGING)
CROW: And it was during "Frampton Come Alive." I was 13. We drove to the coliseum in Memphis and stood outside the back door waiting for him to come out.
WEIR: Oh, there's your boy right there.
CROW: There he is right there. Gorgeous.
WEIR: The best part of this album is you get this effect. Open it up and get the full Peter.
CROW: Yeah, you get the full -- wow.
(LAUGHTER)
CROW: OK. All right. You said it, not me.
WEIR: You know what I mean?
CROW: Yes.
(SINGING)
CROW: And then I met him many years later and I told him, I was in an elevator in Australia, and I said, Mr. Frampton, you were my first concert, and he just kind of looked at me like, oh.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEIR: She's so cool.
BALDWIN: Oh, my gosh.
WEIR: She is so cool.
BALDWIN: You're so cool. So you're in Sheryl Crow's barn going through her personal records?
WEIR: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
WEIR: Do that. Drop by, if you're outside of Nashville. She's very friendly.
BALDWIN: OK, I'll drop on by.
First live show. What was your first live show?
WEIR: It was the World Series of Rock. I think it was 1981. It was Foreigner, 38 Special.
(SINGING)
WEIR: Remember that? Like arena rock, corporate rock.
BALDWIN: I'm a little bit younger. Born in '79. But Bruce Springsteen.
WEIR: Yeah, Springsteen. But this episode, the capstone of the series.
BALDWIN: Yeah. This is the one.
WEIR: You had Bowie experimenting and the Stones in a steamy basement in the south of France.
BALDWIN: People rocking. There's no auto tuning.
WEIR: Exactly. We had to start of hip hop. It was started to morph. Some went disco.
BALDWIN: And the influence is still alive in music today.
WEIR: Exactly.
BALDWIN: Cannot wait, Bill Weir.
WEIR: What was your first concert?
BALDWIN: The Four Tops and the Temptations in Atlanta, Chastain.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Listen, I love my Motown. I grew up with it. I grew up with a -- what you call it -- in my kitchen. I'm blanking out on my words. The little album, the --
WEIR: Jukebox.
BALDWIN: Jukebox. My goodness.
WEIR: Jukebox, OK.
BALDWIN: I do know it. Yeah, a lot of Motown in my house growing up.
