Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Political Stampede At Iowa State Fair; Police Detective in Alabama Beaten Unconscious With His Own Gun; "Des Moines Register" Wants Donald Trump Out Of 2016 Race; Sex Scandal Rocks Michigan's State House. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 15, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:16] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. 3:00 Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow.
It is a busy day in the world of politics. Happy to be joining you this afternoon from Atlanta. And we begin in the Hawkeye state, where it is a political stampede at the famous world renowned Iowa state fair. 2016 hopefuls from both parties are mingling with voters in the first caucus state. At any moment, Senator Bernie Sanders is set to step up to "the Des Moines Register's" soap box.
Just a short time ago, though, guess who, Donald Trump, arrived at the fairgrounds and did not waste any time taking shots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Let me turn to our reporters on the ground there.
CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny and CNN political reporter Sara Murray are there.
Well, you guys were certainly in the thick of things.
Sarah, I'm going to go to you as Jeff fixes his microphone. Tell me about that moment just in the last hour, running alongside Donald Trump.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. So it's amazing. Immediately, as soon as he came in to the fair, he showed up on a golf cart and there was a crowd of people that's just surrounding him. If you compare it to what we saw with Jeb Bush, there were reporters, but Donald Trump could barely move. He could barely breathe. (INAUDIBLE).
But people were really excited. They were screaming, you know, we love you, Donald. There were some kids who got a chance to walk up and say hi to him. They were very excited. So it was a very limited sort of voter interaction. It's not like he was able to stop and really get a lot of Q&A with these folks. But he did get to see a little bit. So we did ask him, though, what he thought about Hillary Clinton's
email controversy. Let's take a look at what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Do you think Hillary made a mistake in making light of her emails, making that snapchat joke about how snapchat gets erased?
TRUMP: That's not her problem. Her problem is emails. That's a big problem for Hillary. And you know, hopefully it will work out for her, but she's got a really big problem.
MURRAY: Do you really think she should suspend her campaign?
TRUMP: I think that's ultimately beginning to happen. At some point, she's got to. Look at General Petraeus. He was destroyed over much lesser crimes. So we'll see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now you can see Donald Trump is not ramping down his controversy over Hillary Clinton at all today. Standing by that. Even saying that this email controversy could be what thwarts her campaign. Back to you.
HARLOW: Right. And Sara, let's keep talking. Let's pull Jeff back into the shot. I think he got his microphone back on there.
Jeff Zeleny, come back in there with us. Hey, Jeff, it's Poppy here. Let's talk about your interaction with Hillary Clinton just a few hours ago. That become and forth about her emails.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Poppy. I mean, this is a day of, you know, photo ops and pounding the pavement. But that doesn't mean the campaign stops. And it doesn't mean the controversy stops. And the private email controversy is really hanging over her campaign.
She made a bit of a joke of it last night at the surf ballroom in Clear Lake, Iowa. She said she's using snapchat now so her emails can disappear. So we asked her if it was a serious problem. And if it will affect her in the general election. Let's take a listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not anything that people talk to me about as I travel around the country. It is never raised in my town halls. It is never raised in my other meetings with people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: It's not raised in some of those meetings, but Democrats certainly have questions about this. It's one of the reasons, Poppy, that vice president Joe Biden is still considering a race. It's one of the reasons that Democrats worry allowed about whether she will be a wounded general election candidate.
But it's clear the Clinton campaign is doubling down on this, trying to rally Democrats behind this and make it look like a partisan story. Rather than something that's actually a legitimate inquiry. But there's no question that is hanging over her appearance here. But now she's already left the state fair after only about an hour here. She's flying to Martha's Vineyard where I'm told she's attending a birthday party tonight.
HARLOW: And we have Jeremy Diamond with us as well from CNN politics.
I mean, Jeremy, you're on the ground. You guys are on the ground. I know a lot of this sort of hoopla has been around Donald Trump, but who are the voters on the ground there most interested to hear from?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, at least when Trump was walking around, it was clear they were pretty interested in Donald Trump. I mean, there were hundreds of people thronging him as he walked through here. Of course, you have a lot of interest in all of the candidates here. This is Iowa. People are interested in politics. And you've got Bernie Sanders, who's talking on the soap box today, and a lot of people are asking where he was at as well. So there's definitely interest in all the candidates.
As far as Donald Trump, when he was here, it was really a rock star kind of reception. It was unclear if some of the people were there just because of the celebrity factor, or because they were interested in him and actually going to vote for him. But there was certainly a lot of supporters here for him, people with Trump shirts, people looking to get pictures with him. And it was a pretty incredible scene.
[15:05:32] HARLOW: Yes. And some of those kids got helicopter rides in the Trump chopper.
I want to talk you live now to listen to senator Bernie Sanders who topped one of the recent polls in Iowa over Hillary Clinton. Actually, New Hampshire. My apologies. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN LIVE SPEECH COVERAGE)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we understand also is that when we live in a competitive global economy, we need the best educated work force possible. It makes no sense to me that we have hundreds of thousands of bright, qualified young people who want to get a higher education, are unable to do so because their family lacks the income. That's wrong. And that is why I have introduced legislation and will fight for as president of the United States to make sure that every public college and university in America is tuition-free.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: And we have also got to deal with the disgrace of outrageously high student debt. There are millions of Americans, young and not so young, who are paying seven, eight, 10 percent on their student debt, 20, 25 percent of their limited income. If you can refinance your home at two or three percent today, you should not be paying eight or 10 percent on student debt.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: And the government should also not be profiteering on student debt held by working class families. And when we talk about raising the minimum wage to a living wage, we have also got to talk about pay equity for women workers.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: Women cannot continue to earn 78 cents on the dollar compared to men workers.
Many of my Republican colleagues talk about family values. Their values are that a woman should not have the right to control her own body. I disagree! Their values are that our gay brothers and sisters should not be able to get married or enjoy all of the benefits of American citizenship. I disagree!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: But my family values -- I've been married 27 years, got four kids, seven grandchildren. My family values are that the United States has got to earn the international embarrassment of being the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee paid family and medical leave.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: When a woman has a baby in this country, regardless of her income, she should be able to spend three months with that baby getting to know that baby, love that baby, that's a family value.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: And when we talk about American values, when we talk about where we want to go as a country, I want to end the absurdity of the United States being the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as a right.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: And that is why I strongly support a Medicare for all single payer program.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
[15:10:11] SANDERS: And when we talk about our responsibilities as adults, as parents, as citizens of this earth, we have a moral responsibility to make certain that we leave this planet in a way that is habitable for our kids and our grandchildren.
The debate is over! Climate change is real. Climate change is caused by human activity. Climate change is already causing devastating problems in our country and around the world.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END LIVE SPEECH COVERAGE)
HARLOW: All right, you're listening to Senator Bernie Sanders there speaking on the famous "Des Moines Register" soap box at the Iowa state fair. This is the man who's coming in at latest polling among Iowa caucus towards Democrats at 31 percent behind Hillary Clinton's 50 percent.
I want to bring Jeff Zeleny back in, senior Washington correspondent for us there.
Jeff, you know, there's one really interesting poll that stands out to me from Iowa caucus goers about Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton when it comes to honesty. Here's what it shows. Clinton coming in at 28 percent, when asked which candidates more honest, Sanders topping her at 35 percent. How important is that for the voters on the ground there?
ZELENY: I think trust, credibility, and honesty, always very important to voters. Particularly when -- you know, in this age of not liking Washington, and this age of distrust in our institutions, mistrust of our politicians. So I think that is a critical number.
But, Poppy, I think even more importantly this year is authenticity. And, you know, the same thing that's driving the Trump candidacy, the same thing that is causing people to pay attention to this is a sense of anger at the status quo. And that's what Bernie Sanders is tapping into as well. He's getting very big crowds across the country, as you know, and here in Iowa as well. So yes, Hillary Clinton leads him by 19 points in our latest CNN poll. But he is tapping into a lot of support out there. So he's certainly someone the Clinton campaign is watching.
HARLOW: I think watching the support he is getting, watching the support Donald Trump is getting, authenticity is the word, Jeff. It is the word. That's what people are looking for. Thank you for your reporting on the ground there. More from Jeff and everyone on the ground there later on the show.
Also, got to remind you, you do not want to miss the second Republican debate. It is right here on CNN September 16th at the Reagan library in California. Again, CNN will host the first of six Democratic debates October 13th, the debit will be from Nevada also right here.
Coming up next, a police detective in Alabama still not recovered from a vicious beating. His attacker now charged with attempted murder. The police officer saying he could have used deadly force, but he didn't. Why did he hesitate? Find out why next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:16:30] HARLOW: Welcome back. A police detective in Alabama who was beaten unconscious with his own gun says he didn't use force on the man who beat him because police in this country, he says, are in under such scrutiny right now.
There is something else. Take a look at these pictures that were posted online. They were taken by a witness to the beating who posted them online along with nasty comments instead of helping the badly injured officer.
Our Nick Valencia has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sucker punched and pistol whipped, with his own service weapon. A Birmingham, Alabama, police detective says he chose not to use force against a man attacking him because he didn't want to be another headline. The brutal beating occurred during a routine traffic stop. The detective, a six-year veteran, noticed a man driving on the interstate erratically. So he pulls the car over.
The two end up here at this shopping center, where the detective calls for backup. It's during this time, according to police, that the suspect gets out of his car and gets aggressive with the officer. Instead of following policy to try to get the man back into his vehicle, the detective says, he hesitates. It's just enough time, police say, for 34-year-old Jenard Cunningham to sucker punch the officer, knocking him unconscious. He then allegedly grabs the police officer's gun and uses it to pistol-whip him.
Adding insult to injury, witnesses do nothing to help him. Instead, some post images of the attack on social media, bragging about it. Quote "pistol-whipped his ass to sleep", one user wrote, employing the #fthepolice. Another mockingly offered the officer milk and cookies for his nap time.
HEATH BOACKLE, HEAD, BIRMINGHAM'S POLICE UNION: I believe in god and I believe that is the reason why the detective is with us today.
VALENCIA: Heath Boackle, the head of Birmingham's police union says fearing media scrutiny, more local police officers are second guessing their actions.
BOACKLE: We're walking on egg shells to make sure we do everything the way that it should be, not that it should ever be in question, but we want to be treated with respect or kindness, just as if anyone else would be.
VALENCIA: It's a sentiment the injured detective knows all too well. He was unwilling to go on camera with CNN or be named for safety reasons. But in an interview with us, he said, a lot of officers are being too cautious because of what's going on in the media. I hesitated because I didn't want to be in the media like I am right now. It's hard times right now for us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Nick Valencia with me live to talk about it. It was hard to swallow something like that, that he felt like he
couldn't do anything because of the criticism he would get. He gets beat unconscious with his own gun. How's he doing now?
VALENCIA: He's scared. He thinks he could be dead right now. He said he thanks God for being alive and he is very lucky to be alive. He has a concussion, 15 staples in his head to close that gash that was caused when he was pistol-whipped. No telling when he's going to come back to work yet, Poppy. But his chief is saying he ordered that he has right now is just to rest and recover and spent time with his family.
HARLOW: What about the policy as a police officer, how he should have by the book handled that situation, and are they changing any of the rules in the wake of this?
VALENCIA: So according to the policy, he should have had that man get back into his car. If it took force to get that man back into his car, that's the policy that that local police department has in Birmingham. He chose not to do that. He chose for it to play out, simply because he's a white detective, and this was a black suspect. He didn't want the headlines, he didn't want the criticism. He says right now there's a lot of officers across the country that are just like him that are walking on egg shells and second guessing their actions because of the criticism that they're facing in the media. He says that he's not alone in this. He thinks that more officers could be hurt because of their actions right now.
[15:20:09] HARLOW: Fifteen staples in his head. I hope he's OK.
Nick, thank you very much for the reporting as always.
VALENCIA: You got it.
HARLOW: Ahead, he is the opposite, you could say, of the common man, a billionaire New York real estate developer. Yet Donald Trump has struck a chord. He has a significant lead right now among GOP voters in Iowa, so what is his appeal to the voters there? As he is on the ground at the state fair today, does it all come down to blunt talk? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:24:22] HARLOW: Will he or won't he? That is still a big question surrounding the presidential ambitions of a man who came in third in a new CNN poll of Iowa Democrats. We're talking about vice president Joe Biden. He has not decided yet, at least not publicly, whether or not he will run for president in 2016. Supporters laying the ground work in case the answer is yes.
Here's what Carl Bernstein said on CNN's "NEW DAY."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARL BERNSTEIN, JOURNALIST/AUTHOR: The big beneficiary of this environment, this changing environment, is Joe Biden if he chooses to enter the race. He's looking at it right now. His people believe he may do it. Some say yes. Some say no. But the distrust factor with Hillary Clinton, the whole Trump excitement and bubble that will probably burst gives a great opportunity to Biden to capture the imagination of the press, of this race, of Democrats who don't want to see Hillary Clinton, who are worried about the distrust factor with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:25:25] HARLOW: Capture the imagination. Those words from Carl Bernstein, who knows politics incredibly well. Anything could happen. It's still early on.
Sunlen Serfaty joining us from Washington. Still no word from the Biden camp on this. How much do you think he should shake things up on the Democratic side?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, it has a potential to be a major shake-up. You know, Hillary Clinton is leading the polls right now. And so this potential late entrance by Biden could do a lot to take away support from Clinton and do a lot to really boost up the support that Bernie Sanders is seeing. And certainly for the moment, this sort of big question mark, will he or won't he, as you say, get into the race, remains an important part of the equation on the democratic side that just is not filled in.
Now, we are told that Biden remains undecided, but we know that he spent a significant amount of time over the past week, especially while he's been on vacation with his family in South Carolina, really working the phones, reaching out to some of his supporters to gauge interest, and most importantly, to really get a political reality check. What are his chances, what would a potential campaign look like, how would his campaign organization be set up. Can he raise the money, how much money would there be for him to grab. So all of these are important questions that are swirling right now within Biden, his family, and his supporters.
[15:00:16] HARLOW: Here's another important question, right? Would he jump in without the support of the full backing of President Obama, and that certainly puts the president in quite a situation, sort of deciding between his vice president and his former secretary of state.
SERFATY: Absolutely. And this has really almost been the elephant in the room. President Obama has really tried to walk a fine line, obviously. And he is the vice president. But Hillary Clinton was the secretary of state as well. So these are definitely important questions that Biden himself has got to ask, and his supporters as well.
HARLOW: Sunlen, thank you very much for the reporting.
Let's keep talking about Joe Biden, contemplating a run. There are even some rumors that former presidential candidate Al Gore. He has been considering whether might throw his hat in the ring, although he vehemently denies that. Many people brushing that off when that news broke yesterday. So is this a sign of desperation on the part of some Democrats, or are they just exploring their options and it is very early on?
A lot to unpack here. Let's turn to CNN political director David Chalian. He joins me from where else, the place to be this weekend, my friend, Iowa state fair. What's your take? What's your crystal ball on Joe Biden?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: God, I'm so out of the crystal ball business on this now. I've been surprised by everything this political cycle, Poppy. But I think what is happening right now with the vice president is obviously he's still going through a grieving process about the loss of his son, Beau. And he is very keenly aware of what is happening politically. He's got his own ambitions. And I think if he sees this as sort of an opportunity to push forward with his lifetime of public service in the way that his son wanted him to do and expressed that to him long before he got sick through his illness, up until his death, then it maybe something that he will look at seriously.
But we shouldn't overstate just how difficult this would be, or we shouldn't understate how difficult it would be because Joe Biden would have a mountain to climb here. He's not organized here at all. The money thing would have to come into place. Hillary Clinton does have a formidable lead. There are some Democrats who are concerned that the email controversy continues to hang over her in a much more substantial way than they would have hoped by five months into the process now. And that is giving Joe Biden a bit of an opening and a bit more time to think through this.
HARLOW: It is. And when you look at the latest polling among Democratic caucus, caucus scores in Iowa, Joe Biden, who's not even running, does come in third at 12 percent behind Bernie Sanders, 31 and Clinton's 50 percent.
Let me ask you this. Jeff Zeleny was saying earlier in the program, the word of the day really, or the election is authenticity and quite people are reacting to Bernie Sanders. It's why they are reacting to Donald Trump. Joe Biden has been known to speak his mind. Could he come in there and really play up that card?
CHALIAN: He could and he would if he chose to get in. But remember, Poppy, Joe Biden's done this twice before and didn't emerge as an Iowa winner. It's not like this unfamiliar process in or that he somehow has become more authentic since then. So Iowa Democrats have had a chance to sort of kick the tires with Joe Biden. Now, more people obviously know him as vice president. But it hasn't worked its sort of magic before for him.
I will say you're right to bring up Bernie Sanders, too. I just came from his event at the soap box by "the Des Moines Register" soap box. He's drawn one of the largest crowds I've ever seen as a state fair to hear the speech. And he is making quite a play here in Iowa and around the country.
[15:30:19] HARLOW: And he's topping Hillary Clinton when voters there in Iowa are asked who they think is more honest. And that's very important when you're electing the next president. All right, David Chalian, thank you, my friend.
CHALIAN: Sure.
HARLOW: We will be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the film industry, there are very few people of color. I think people feel shut out. As an editor for over 40 years, picks up the pace, makes it more exciting. I thought, I'm going to help the people who need the help the most.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Growing up, I loved film and television. But my childhood was mostly taking care of my dad. He was pretty ill. I really didn't have like the opportunities to pursue my dreams.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In improv, you always say yes. Yes to everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We bring in industry professionals to teach low- income and minority youth how to make films.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Action.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The training we provide is hands-on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once the camera is set, you'll want to shoot everything you possibly can from that angle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Screen writing, directing, camera, editing, producing, casting. It's necessary that they learn all these skills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to make emotionally impacting films here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The students who graduate find jobs through contacts with studio personnel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't even imagine a world without the program. Words can't say much about how much appreciation I have for Fred. When my dad passed away, like, he's given me good advice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're looking for a more diverse future for our students in Hollywood. And they're achieving that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:35:41] HARLOW: Donald Trump has a commanding lead in the race when it comes to likely caucus goers in Iowa. In a CNN/ORC poll, he tops the field, 22 percent of support there. And he's seen in that state as the most likely candidate to win the general election.
But not everyone is giving Trump a warm reception in Iowa. The editorial board of "the Des Moines Register," major paper there, called on him to drop out of the 2016 presidential race. Here's how Trump responded today when he was asked why he was not speaking at "the Des Moines Register's" soap box.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In my opinion, not relevant to me. Just not relevant. And I notice a number of other people aren't speaking there. No, the paper is not relevant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VALENCIA: Very relevant when it comes to the world of politics.
Joining me now from "the Des Moines Register" is political columnist Kathy O'Bradovich. Thank you for being here.
KATHY O'BRADOVICH, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, DES MOINES REGISTER: Thanks for having me.
HARLOW: So, you know, our team was talking before the show and this kept coming up. Who would have thought that a billionaire New York real estate developer, and this is coming from a Minnesotan here, would be topping the polls in Iowa. Does Donald Trump defy the law of political gravity or reality in this election so far?
O'BRADOVICH: Well, he was certainly defying gravity here at the Iowa state fair, after the state fair board told him he could not have his helicopter here. He brought it anyway, parked next door, and flew around the fairgrounds, and everybody had to look up, and there's Donald Trump flying by the state fair. So he definitely breaks the rules and he does things his own way.
HARLOW: But what do you think it is about him sort of coming from -- look, this is not an Iowa guy. This is not a Midwestern guy, right? And I know that's not what you have to be to resonate with voters there or voters across the country. What is it about him that you think is resonating so much? Is it because he's frankly not in politics until now?
O'BRADOVICH: Absolutely. That's exactly what it is. Voter after voter that we ask says, you know, what is it about Donald Trump? He is not a politician. He tells it like it is. He cuts through all the BS that people are used to hearing from other politicians. And, you know, they feel like he's not going to take no for an answer or be too politically correct to get the job done. And it's a very unanimous sentiment from people who say they really support him in Iowa. Now, having said that, it is very early.
HARLOW: Yes, it's a very good point. It is very early. Look. We heard from Hillary Clinton earlier today at the fair answering a lot of questions about her emails as secretary of state and her private email server. I want you to listen to what Donald Trump had to say about her emails extensively.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: There's a lot of pressure on Hillary right now. It's been brutal. It's been brutal for Hillary. And I think at some point, she's perhaps not going to be able to run. It is going to have to end her campaign. That seems to be the thinking by so many.
And I was saying that two months ago and everyone would thought what you, you know, not right, but it looks to me like what they've done -- this is top secret stuff. Look. General Petraeus, his life was destroyed with a tiny fraction of what she's done. So it's very unfair to him, if they're going to destroy him over doing by comparison nothing, I don't see how she can run. I think she's got much bigger problems than running for office. Yes, ma'am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Jeff Zeleny pointed out to Donald Trump when he reiterated that today that his email, Petraeus' emails were more classified, hers were not, at least as we know up to this point. Does that resonate the email argument, does it resonate with voters?
O'BRADOVICH: You know, I hear it a lot more in the press than I hear it with voters. I think the only place where you can see that email controversy resonating is in the polls. People say that they find other candidates more trustworthy than they find Hillary Clinton. Even if they maybe supporting her, they are finding that other candidates are more trustworthy. That is something that Hillary Clinton has been working on every time she comes to Iowa. She is spending time talking directly to voters and trying to tell her story through the people that she meets on the campaign trail.
HARLOW: So in a sense, you bring up -- and we'll pull up those poll numbers because it comes down to honesty, right? In a sense, is Donald Trump helping a Bernie Sanders when he keeps harping on the email controversy?
[15:40:06] O'BRADOVICH: Well, you know, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump draw from I think the same well of contempt for the Washington establishment. They're both outsider. They're both outspoken outsiders taking on the establishment. And you hear, you know, Donald Trump's support crosses party lines in some sort and so does Bernie Sanders. People are really kind of fed up with Washington. And they want things to change radically. And so the people who are supporting Trump and Sanders, I think come from the same place, although perhaps at the opposite end of the political cycle.
HARLOW: Quickly asked you about that with the fascinating report in "the Washington Post" about that this morning about Trump drawing even some Democrats. Do you believe, are you hearing from voters there in Iowa some maybe consider themselves to mainly vote Democrat, switching to the Trump camp?
O'BRADOVICH: Yes. I mean, you know - yes, I mean, the Iowa caucuses, you can register for whatever party you want at the caucus, so you don't have to necessarily be a lifelong Republican or lifelong Democrat to caucus with them. But I think what Trump is doing mostly is drawing people in who have not been part of this caucused before. They may have a D or an R on their voter registration card, but this may be the first time they actually get involved and actually caucus for a presidential candidate.
HARLOW: Well, it's got a lot more people involved, that is for sure, the more people involved in the political process.
Kathy O'Bradovich of "the Des Moines Register," thank you.
Up next, my conversation with the man who helped get another man off of death row 30 years after he was wrongly convicted. What he has to say, especially about the black lives matter movement right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:24] HARLOW: We've all read a book that has changed our life, and when the Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz read "just mercy," he was driven to find the author Bryan Stevenson. Schultz traveled to Stevenson's hometown and meet him earlier this year. Bryan Stevenson is the founder of the equal justice initiative and he fought to free a man who spent 30 years of death row for a crime he did not commit.
This week in Chicago, I sat down with Stevenson and Schultz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: You spent your life fighting for civil rights and for justice. And you say the opposite of poverty is justice. Not wealth, justice. What's going on in this country right now?
BRYAN STEVENSON, AUTHOR, JUST MERCY: Well, I think we've really been disconnected from our kind of core values. I think we've let the politics of fear and anger really create some disastrous policies. And so for the last 40 years, all the politicians have been competing over who can be the toughest on crime. And that's why we went from 300,000 people in jails and prisons to 2.3 million today. To have the highest rate of incarceration in the world, to have six million people on probation and parole, 70 million Americans with criminal arrest is a crisis that we have to fix.
And I'm excited that people from both political parties now seem to recognize that. But that era of anger and fear shaping policy is the challenge that we face, and it manifests itself in all kinds of ways, and what we're doing in criminal justice. I think we haven't dealt with our legacy of racial inequality and the issues that we're seeing manifest now is a function of the presumption of danger and guilt that gets assigned to too many people of color which is why I think we got to change that. And I just think if people saw what I see on a regular basis, they would want something different and that is the reason why --.
HARLOW: Because you work with these kids in --.
STEVENSON: That's exactly right. And what I see is that all of us are more than the worse than we've ever done. I believe that for every person I've ever met.
HARLOW: This is a book about a case of racial inequality to the extreme.
STEVENSON: Yes, that's right. Well, I mean, the main case is actually a case set in the same community where Harper Lee grew up and wrote "to kill a mocking bird." But it's more about what's happened the last 40 years, the way in which we have over incarcerated, we've used punishment unfairly, what we've done to children and the mentally ill. It's about injustice and how we can get close to it and confront it.
HARLOW: So let me ask you about the Black Lives Matter Movement. This may have been a movement born in Ferguson, but this is a nationwide movement now. And we've seen it very much play into the presidential campaigns. Are the politicians addressing the Black Lives Matter Movement correctly right now? What do they need to understand?
STEVENSON: Well, I don't think Black Lives Matter movement wants people to address their movement. What they want them to address are a set of issues that have to be addressed, like mass incarceration, like police violence, like the way in which too many people are disconnected in our communities. The movement is an engine to get attention on a set of issues. And I think too often we focus on responses to movement and movement people, when it's really the issues.
You know, I was fortunate to be on a task force on policing that the president created to create recommendations on how to create more trust and legitimacy in every community, between community members and the police. That's the priority. You know, we've got one in three black male babies is expected to go to jail or prison during their lifetime. That's a crisis. That's an absolute crisis. And we can change that by decriminalizing some of these drugs and creating a different attitude around mandatory sentencing and criminal justice (INAUDIBLE). That's the priority. That's the focus. And whether you're active in black lives matter or the civil rights movement or the human rights move. Or the social justice movement, that's what people want. They want policymakers and politicians to create new policies that create more hope and more justice.
HARLOW: To you, Howard, on the black lives matter movement, how should action be carried out? It seems like politicians are trying to figure out.
HOWARD SCHULTZ, CEO, STARBUCKS: This is a very complicated issue, but it's not a new issue. And you think about why we're specifically here in Chicago today, with 5.6 million young people who are disconnected, not in school, not working, many of whom are African-American and Latino, who feel as if there's no hope for them. They don't see themselves in the American dream. That is a large part of the issues that we are facing in this country. We just can't leave a significant group of people behind who feel as if they are not connected to the future of the country. And so this is a complicated issue. But I think the foundation of the issue is a lack of hope and opportunity that we must turn around. And of course it is the responsibility of government and government leaders, but it's also the responsibility of citizens and in this case businesses. And here we are, we've convened companies today, foundations, non-
profits, the mayor, all coming together to try and address this problem. And so, it has to be addressed at multiple levels. And I think the work that Bryan has done and the book -- the stories in the book and raising awareness about the issues around incarceration, it's hard to believe. How could America be the number one country in the world in terms of people in jail?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[15:50:30] HARLOW: You will see Stevenson's book "Just Mercy" in Starbucks stores starting on Tuesday. The profits will go to the Equal Justice Initiative.
Still ahead here, it is the sex scandal rocking Michigan's statehouse. A lawmaker apologizing after an alleged affair with the colleague. But the bizarre part is how one of them tried to cover it up. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:55:03] HARLOW: Happening now, Dr. Ben Carson, Republican presidential candidate, speaking to voters, this at a vast barbecue in Nevada, one of the critical early voting states. Carson, of course, chasing the nomination. Worth noting that he is currently polling second in the GOP race in Iowa.
Also this, an alleged affair between two Michigan state lawmakers sparking calls for them to step down, not for the affair but because of the bizarre cover-up involving a bogus email and a story about a male prostitute.
CNN's Ryan Nobles has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the first time, the female state representative at the center of a sex scandal rocking Michigan's state capitol, is speaking out.
STATE REP. CINDY GAMRAT, MICHIGAN: I know that I have made some poor decisions as they relate to my personal life.
NOBLES: Cindy Gamrat and her fellow Republican Todd Courser are accused of engaging in an extramarital affair. Both are conservative lawmakers with spouses and children. The alleged affair came to light after the Detroit news obtained an audio recording captured by a staffer where Courser hatches a self-targeted plan to send an email under a fake name falsely accusing himself of soliciting a male prostitute. The alleged goal? To distract attention from his relationship with Gamrat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does this do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need to, if possible, inoculate the herd against gutter politics that are coming. NOBLES: The salacious details are leading to calls for both Courser
and Gamrat to resign. A tearful Gamrat acknowledged mistakes but fell short of admitting to the affair and has refused down.
GAMRAT: My husband is here, Joe, and I have three children. They don't deserve what's come upon them. I take full responsibility.
NOBLES: Meanwhile, Courser who has admitted to the affair has released a 27-minute audio statement where he does admit to faking the email and describes himself as a broken messenger. But he, too, refuses to step down, claiming that former staffers let by political opponents are trying to blackmail him.
STATE REP. TODD COURSER, MICHIGAN: So I refuse to leave quietly and have decided this information needs to come out.
NOBLES: Back at the state capital, Michigan house speaker Kevin Cotter has ordered an investigation into the allegations and whether any house rules or laws were violated. It's an investigation Gamrat welcomes.
GAMRAT: I'm looking forward an investigation. I think that will vindicate me on that.
NOBLES: Ryan Nobles, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Ryan, thank you for the reporting on that.
Coming up next, the center of the political universe is in Des Moines, Iowa, this weekend. Donald Trump showing up and unloading on his fellow candidates and the press and more. Hear what he had to say at the Iowa state fair, along with the other top candidates next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
