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Trump To Announce Immigration Policy Tomorrow; Michigan Representative Speaks On Sex Scandal, Bizarre Cover-Up; COP Hesitated Because of Media Scrutiny; Hillary Clinton Criticized on E-mail Controversy, Makes Jokes; U.S. Convinced ISIS Used Mustard Gas; Teens Forced to Work for Drug Cartels. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 15, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:45] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. Five o'clock Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Good to be with you today. We begin this hour in Iowa where tomorrow Donald Trump says, he plans to release details on his immigration policy. Today he is at the Iowa State Fair where 2016 hopefuls from both parties are crisscrossing the fairgrounds, mingling with critical Iowa voters. Trump along with Hillary Clinton making waves in the Hawkeye State. Here's Donald Trump just moments after arriving at the fairgrounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've done so well because people hear my message. We're being ripped off by everybody in the world whether it's China, Japan, Mexico. Both of the border and -- the case of Mexico. Mexico is sort of becoming the new China in terms of trade. So many companies -- just yesterday I read where Nabisco, Nabisco is moving to Mexico. I mean, give me a break. So, we have to reverse that. We need jobs in our countries. We're not to worry about other countries. We're going to take jobs back from China, Japan. We're going to make our country great again. And that to me is going to be the challenge.

And we'll going to do it and it's not going to be that difficult. I spoke with Carl Icahn. He's a friend of mine. He's a great negotiator. He will help us. All of the best negotiators, we have the best businesspeople in the world in this country. They'll all help us. And believe me, when I get the right people negotiating with the right countries, we will come out on top every single time. And that's what we need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny live at the fair. Also with us, senior editor at "The Federalist," David Harsanyi. Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

Jeff, let me begin with you. This was a very quick mention by Donald Trump but perhaps the most important thing that he laid out today and that is he will announce details of his immigration plan tomorrow morning. The first specifics we will hear.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. But that is what he said, Poppy. He said he would announce his immigration proposals. Of course, immigration is one of the things that has thrust Donald Trump in the spotlight at least on the republican side. A lot of the controversy that he generated at the very beginning actually resonated with a lot of voters across the country, certainly here in Iowa and other early voting states.

So, we will, he says hear some specifics tomorrow morning when he does his interview on "Meet the Press." But Poppy, I can tell you, when he was walking to the crowds here today, people frankly just wanted to see him. He appeared to me as much more of a celebrity than a caucus candidate. So that of course will be his challenge going forward, you know, convincing people that he is a serious candidate, presidential candidate. So, that's why he's doing some policy proposals starting tomorrow.

HARLOW: Well, You have got a very engaged electorate in Iowa. The voters that want specifics. Maybe there's the initial celebrity but they want and will demand specifics as they go into the caucuses. David, to you, you've said about Trump, this is your quote, "Once the hissy fit is over, conservatives will find a more compelling and realistic candidate." How do you find someone more compelling than Donald Trump?

DAVID HARSANYI, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE FEDERALIST": Well, if you care about issues, as you just mentioned, I think that there are people who are compelling on issues, not just in personality. I mean, it will be nice to see some specifics because it's been basically just gibberish and maybe, you know, five percent actual policy proposal, which is mostly just this populism that I think plays into the worst instincts of some voters. So, I mean, I just don't think there's staying power. But maybe if he has some great policy prescriptions, people will be compelled by him.

HARLOW: We'll start hearing those sounds like tomorrow morning. Jeff, you spoke with Donald Trump a little while ago. I want people to listen to what he told you specifically as he took on Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's a criminal problem. I mean, it's going to be a very serious problem for her, Jeff. It's going to be about as serious as it gets. You look at General Petraeus, and he was destroyed over a much lesser event. So, I think she's got a very big --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But his e-mails were marked classified, hers were not?

TRUMP: Well, I think some of hers were. And it seemed like they took a lot of markings off. I mean, somebody's got a big problem and it looks like it's Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Any worry Republicans could overplay their hand on this e-mail controversy?

TRUMP: Look, it is what it is. It was a terrible thing she did, it was actually a very foolish thing. There was no reason to do it. And she's got a big problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, all the reporters on the ground are asking Trump and Hillary Clinton frankly about the e-mail scandal, Jeff. Is that what the voters are asking them about?

ZELENY: Some of the voters are, Poppy. Of course, it's not on the top of the mind at the Iowa State Fair. Look, you can see behind me here, people are having fun. It's the weekend. But when you talk to voters who are really engaged about what their concerns are, I heard it from a lot of Democrats, he's actually one of my surprising takeaways from talking to a lot of Iowa voters over the last several days, there are Democrats who wonder whether this e-mail controversy will be a problem in the general election campaign. In the Bernie Sanders crowd today, which was a huge crowd, a lot of Democrats said that could be a problem here. So voters are asking questions about this. No question.

[17:05:35] HARLOW: Let's listen to some sound from Bernie Sanders who got -- our political director here at CNN David Chalian was reporting earlier. One of the biggest if not the biggest crowd he's ever seen for a candidate at the Iowa State Fair. So, let's roll that Bernie Sanders sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, let me ask you, you've been doing a lot of rallies across the country. At some point are you going to turn your focus to Iowa counties specifically and start organizing here?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're doing it right now. We are doing it right now. See this guy? It's what he does. We're paying him a fortune to organize. He's having meetings all over the state. Robert, how many organizers do we have in Iowa now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty four on the ground, 14 offices.

SANDERS: We've got 14 offices, 44 people. We are beginning to put together the kind of grassroots organization that will able us to win the caucus here in Iowa.

ZELENY: What does this big crowd at the Iowa State Fair here tell you?

SANDERS: You know, it just tells me, the same as I've seen all over this country. And that is people have had it up to here. They are sick and tired of seeing this great nation, a great nation like ours, where almost all of the wealth and income are going to the top one percent while the middle class continues to disappear. They are sick and tired of a campaign finance system that allows the Koch Brothers and billionaires to literally buy elections. People did not fight and die to defend American democracy to have a handful of billionaires deciding who senators and presidents will be.

ZELENY: Would you welcome Vice President Biden into this race?

SANDERS: I've known Joe Biden for decades. He is a very decent guy. He is a friend of mine. If he gets in, that's great. If he doesn't, that's great. That's his decision. If he gets in, I look forward to an issue-oriented campaign.

ZELENY: Final question here, are the e-mails and the private server a distraction or a legitimate issue for Democrats to consider?

SANDERS: Speak to Hillary about that one.

ZELENY: Now, the Democrats are saying that it's a general election liability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: David, to you, just your reaction to Bernie Sanders drawing such a huge crowd, you know, beating Hillary Clinton among Iowa voters when it comes to honesty, how big of a threat is he?

HARSANYI: I don't know how big a threat he is. But I think this is the time in an election where, you know, idealism matters. People are so sick of the calculated politician that someone like that who speaks his mind, who obviously believes in what he's saying and is principled I think is very appealing to a lot of people. I think at some point voters start asking themselves, is this person electable, and that comes a bit later. Right now, you get to, you know, you get to latch onto someone who really speaks for you in an honest way and I think he does that for many Democrats.

HARLOW: Jeff, it was a great interview. And you were chasing after him there, as he was walking away, you're asking him about the Hillary emails. Why do you think he didn't want to address that?

ZELENY: Look, Poppy, I think that Bernie Sanders has been like that from the very beginning. He said, he does want to mudsling. He said he's never done it any of these campaigns. He does not want to do it now. So, he did not want to pile on or in fact, as you saw, even answer my question, if it's a legitimate issue or a liability. But I can tell you, Poppy, a lot of his supporters do want to talk about that. A lot of other Democrats do want to talk about that. And in fairness, some don't. Some supporters of Hillary Clinton believe that it is a distraction.

So, we're going to see a divide on that. But overall, I think, you saw Bernie Sanders there explaining why people are being drawn to him. His challenge now is turning that into support at these Iowa caucuses where organization matters much more than big crowds to.

HARLOW: Yes. All right, gentlemen, thank you both. Jeff, great work. I don't think you'll get a break, you're getting every big name that's there at the fair on the record, on camera. So, go chase more politicians and we'll talk to you in a few. Thank you, guys.

ZELENY: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right. Let's talk to a voter. I'm excited to have this next guest on. Stephanie McFadden, she is an Iowa voter, she's there at the fair and she is a self-proclaimed, huge, huge Trump supporter. Thank you for being with me, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE MCFADDEN, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Hi, I'm glad to be here.

HARLOW: So, let's talk about, why do you like Donald Trump so much?

MCFADDEN: You know what, I have a whole lot of respect for Donald Trump because I think he's just not afraid to say what he's thinking. I think he really represents what a lot of Americans have on their mind. You know, he's just not afraid to go out there and speak about issues that really affect all Americans, regardless of party.

HARLOW: Well, you say regardless of party, there was an interesting article in "The Washington Post" this morning talking about how some Democrats are even liking Trump thinking of voting for him. I don't know if you feel comfortable revealing your party or not but have you always been, you know, do you always vote republican or are you a democrat who likes Trump?

[17:10:08] MCFADDEN: You know, I'm the kind of voter who votes on a person based on really their values and what they stand for. I wouldn't say that I'm really party specific. Of course, I'll admit that I lean a little more republican. But if you can give me a democrat whose values and principles align with me own, I'd absolutely give them a serious look. I will admit that I was a big Mitt Romney supporter and I believe he is a very good human being. I think we are unfortunately in a situation but we really could have sort of used Mitt Romney right now. But yes, I think Trump, you know, he has a lot of good things to say and he's not afraid to say them.

(CROSSTALK)

Yes, go ahead.

HARLOW: Yes, sorry to interrupt you Stephanie. Sorry to interrupt you. I did want to ask you this, you have said that you think Hillary Clinton is a big bully. You use that word. Can you explain why and some other people have called Trump a bully. Do you think he is or no?

MCFADDEN: Well, no, I don't believe Trump is a bully. I think he's very outspoken and he speaks from his heart. I think he's not afraid to say what he thinks. I do believe that Hillary Clinton is very condescending. And I think there's a lot of really strong women in this country, you know, who could do a great job leading this country. And it doesn't necessarily have to just be Hillary Clinton.

HARLOW: Let's talk about Trump's record with women. Right? He said even when he landed there at the fair this morning, he said, I cherish women and he's said it over and over again. But you know the question he got from Megyn Kelly in the GOP debate about women, what he's said about women before. What he said about Megyn Kelly and the bleeding comments after that. Does any of that bother you as a female voter?

MCFADDEN: You know what? I think we get caught on all of that. I think that is just, you know, I think that's something we need to stop focusing on so much and let's just focus on, you know, really what values -- we just need to stop focusing on that kind of stuff. I think that really sidetracks what's really important.

HARLOW: So, let's talk about what's really important, right, it's jobs, it's the economy. It's big policy issues, right? Like immigration, et cetera, healthcare. Stephanie, I'm not sure what you do, what your business line is, et cetera, but I wonder if you could speak personally about what Donald Trump, you think, will do for you and how he would help you in your life and in business.

MCFADDEN: Well, I feel like what's really important right now is absolutely jobs and the economy. I mean, this is something that transcends party lines, and I believe that we're really stuck today on social issues. And I think at the end of the day, those things are not going to be as important as jobs. I can speak from personal experience myself. My husband has been unemployed. He is a very smart educated man. And the jobs just aren't there. We are true middle class and the middle class is suffering. Education is another thing. My daughter is going to be graduating from high school and we are now looking at colleges.

HARLOW: Right.

MCFADDEN: Colleges are very unaffordable, they're very expensive. And, you know, my daughter does not want to be in debt when she graduates from college. And we've got a lot of kids that are graduating very well-educated but the jobs aren't there. And when the jobs leave our country, they're not coming back. Job creation is a big thing.

HARLOW: Yes. Well, I think you speak for so many Americans when it comes to jobs. The employment numbers look great on the surface but there's a lot of pain out there still. Stephanie McFadden, thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

MCFADDEN: Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

HARLOW: All right. Take care.

All right. Coming up next, switching gears to a political sex scandal like you have never heard before. Two Michigan lawmakers in trouble for more than just an extramarital affair. It's the bizarre cover-up that has people calling on them to resign.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:27] HARLOW: It has been a nightmare travel day for thousands of people trying to fly in and out of major airports in Washington, D.C. and New York. The FAA says, hundreds of flights had to be delayed or cancel because of a problem with an automation system at an air traffic control center in Virginia. That computer glitch has been fixed. The damage though is done. CNN producer capturing this photo of stranded passengers at Reagan

National Airport in Washington, D.C. where that producer was also stranded. Roughly 25 percent of the scheduled departures there canceled today. Other airports including Dulles and Baltimore reporting delays of two hours or more. It still not clear what exactly caused the glitch. But they do seem to be turning the corner.

It is the political sex scandal that is rocking the state of Michigan. A state lawmaker accused of trying to cover up his secret affair by devising what appears to be a smear campaign targeting himself. The plan backfired and now his alleged lover, a fellow representative is speaking out for the first time.

Here is CNN's Ryan Nobles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN NOBLES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the first time, the female state representative at the center of a sex scandal rocking Michigan's state capitol is speaking out.

REP. CINDY GAMRAT (R), MICHIGAN STATE HOUSE: I know that I've made some poor decisions as they relate to my personal life.

NOBLES: Cindy Gamrat and her fellow republican Todd Courser are accused of engaging in an extramarital affair. Both are conservative lawmakers with spouses and children. The alleged affair came to light after the Detroit news obtained an audio recording captured by a staffer where courser hatches a self-targeted plan to send an e-mail under a fake name falsely accusing himself of soliciting a male prostitute. The alleged goal? To distract attention from his relationship with Gamrat.

REP. TODD COURSER (R), MICHIGAN STATE HOUSE: What does this do? I need to if possible inoculate the herd against gutter politics that are coming.

NOBLES: The salacious details are leading to calls for both Courser and Gamrat to resign. A tearful Gamrat acknowledged mistakes but stopped short of admitting to the affair and has refused to step down.

GAMRAT: My husband is here, Joe, and I have three children. They all deserve what's come upon them. I take full responsibility.

NOBLES: Meanwhile Courser who is not admitted to the affair has released a 27-minute audio statement where he does admit to faking the e-mail and describes himself as a broken messenger, but he, too, refuses to step down, claiming that former staffers led by political opponents are trying to blackmail him.

COURSER: So, I refuse to leave quietly and have decided these efforts really need to come out.

NOBLES: Back at the State Capitol, Michigan House Speaker Kevin Cotter has ordered an investigation into the allegations and whether any house rules or laws were violated. It's an investigation Gamrat welcomes.

GAMRAT: I'm looking forward to the investigation. I think that will vindicate me in that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: Michigan speaker of the house has called this scandal disturbing. He joins a growing crowd of people in Michigan calling for both of these lawmakers to step down -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Ryan, thank you very much for that reporting.

Coming up next, a police detective in Alabama still were covering from a vicious beating. His attacker now charged with attempted murder. The officer says he could have used force but didn't. Find out why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:24:38] HARLOW: A police detective in Alabama who was beaten unconscious with his own gun says, he didn't use force on the man who beat him because police are under such scrutiny in this country right now. There's also something else disturbing. These pictures were taken by a witness to the beating who then posted the pictures online instead of helping the badly injured officer.

Our Nick Valencia reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sucker- punched and pistol-whipped with his own service weapon, a Birmingham, Alabama, police detective says, he chose not to use force against a man attacking him because he didn't want to be another headline. The brutal beating occurred during a routine traffic stop. The detective, a six-year veteran, noticed a man driving on the interstate erratically. So he pulls the car over.

(on camera): The two end up here at this shopping center where the detective calls for back-up. During this time, according to police, the suspect gets out of his car and gets aggressive with the officer. Instead of following policy to try to get the man back into his vehicle, the detective says he hesitates. It's just enough time police say for 34-year-old Janard Cunningham to sucker-punch the officer, knocking him unconscious. He then allegedly grabs the police officer's gun and uses it to pistol-whip him.

(voice-over): Adding insult to injury, witnesses do nothing to help. Instead some post images of the attack on social media, bragging about it. Quote, "pistol-whipped his ass to sleep." One user wrote. #F Da Police. Another mockingly offered the officer milk and cookies for his nap time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe in God and I think that is the reason why the detective is with us today. VALENCIA: Heath Boackle, the head of Birmingham's Police Union says,

fearing media scrutiny, more local police officers are second-guessing their actions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're walking on eggshells to make sure we do everything the way that it should be. Not to be in question. But we want to be treated with respect or kindness just as if anyone else would be.

VALENCIA: It's a sentiment the injured detective knows all too well. He was unwilling to go on camera with CNN or be named for safety reasons but in an interview with us, he said, "A lot of officers are being too cautious because of what's going on in the media, I hesitated because I didn't want to be in the media like I am right now, it's hard times right now for us."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: According to the head of the police union here in Birmingham, the suspect in the attack, 34-year-old Janard Cunningham, spontaneously told police that the reason he attacked the officer is because of all the negative coverage of police across the country. He was arrested shortly after the incident and has been charged with attempted murder. We've attempted to reach out to Cunningham and his family. They've declined comment.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Birmingham, Alabama.

HARLOW: Our thoughts with the officer tonight.

Coming up next, Hillary Clinton makes a joke last night about her e- mail controversy. Will those remarks come back to haunt her?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Those messages disappear all by themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:11] HARLOW: Hillary Clinton is criticizing her Republican opponents for keeping the e-mail controversy over her use of a private server going on and on, calling the continued questions, quote, "partisan games." Today, the Democratic front-runner faced new questions over her use of that private e-mail server while she was secretary of state. She said the issue just isn't brought up when she meets everyday voters. She even joked about it last night at a campaign dinner. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: And I know that people across the country are following us on social media as well. By the way, you may have seen that I recently launched a Snapchat account.

(CHEERING)

CLINTON: I love it. I love it. Those messages disappear all by themselves.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN's politics reporter, Jeremy Diamond, joins me now from the Des Moines, Iowa, State Fair, where a lot of the candidates are today.

What do you make of that tactic, Hillary Clinton turning the page, making a joke about e-mails, because it's been such an issue to plague her campaign?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: I think Hillary Clinton would love for this whole e-mail issue to just vanish away just like a Snapchat message. But it's clear that they're using this tactic of trying to make a joke out of it, trying to be a little bit more light- hearted about it. That will play great with her base. Her base will eat that up. But at the same time, Clinton dismisses the scandal and says voters aren't talking to her about it, it's clear to some extent this is an issue, not just with the media but with voters overall. Some of the recent polls have shown a majority of Americans don't believe Clinton is honest and trustworthy.

HARLOW: Right.

DIAMOND: Those numbers can vacillate and change. But there's a lot of work to be done for sure.

HARLOW: Let's show those numbers. In Iowa, specifically, where you are, it shows that Hillary Clinton is seen as less honest than Bernie Sanders. She came in at -- 35 percent think she's less honest than Bernie Sanders. Do you think the e-mail scandal is helping Bernie Sanders who's running right behind her in Iowa?

DIAMOND: I think it's definitely one of the factors that might be propelling Bernie Sanders as he kind of gains all of this grassroots enthusiasm. He had a really large crowd here. Donald trump had a huge crowd as well. But Bernie Sanders also had a large crowd. And that's definitely one of the fabrics. People see Bernie Sanders as kind of very authentic and he's got that kind of appeal. So there's no doubt that when Hillary has all these issues with the e-mail scandal and other questions like that, that's going to help somebody else in the race.

HARLOW: What about the actual core issues, the issues that matter the most to people there -- jobs, the economy, immigration, health care, what about those issues? What are the voters saying they want to hear from these candidates?

DIAMOND: There's a lot of support here for Hillary Clinton, for sure. There's a good amount of support for Bernie Sanders as well. There's a little area here where you can put your corn kernel in a jar and vote for your candidate and Hillary Clinton's is the top just as she's at the top of the polls. Most Democratic voters are resonating with what Hillary Clinton is saying and her message. But there's the progressive wing of the party that Bernie Sanders has really tapped into there. And it's something that Hillary Clinton is going to have to try and steal that support back from him if she wants to continue to be successful in this election.

HARLOW: And her camp's always saying, this isn't going to be a coronation, this is going to be a tough fight. We're seeing it more and more, especially from Bernie Sanders.

Thank you, Jeremy.

DIAMOND: Thank you, Poppy. Appreciate it.

[17:35:13] HARLOW: Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: U.S. government officials this weekend, convinced, without a doubt, that ISIS fighters used mustard agent as a weapon in an attack in Syria. They're looking very closely into the aftermath of this ISIS attack, also in Iraq where it is suspected mustard agent was also used. The next step, checking a possible link between chemical weapons and the Syrian government. That could take the war on terror to a new level, especially for the United States.

Here's Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The patients came to this northern Iraqi hospital with blistered skin and respiratory distress. The Kurds say ISIS fired mortars at them containing a chemical agent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 38 rounds exploded, seven did not.

STARR: The U.S. is investigating and will test samples to find out if it was mustard agent, a chemical weapon is could possess in small quantities.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, FORMER AIR FORCE INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: It's a game-changer because what it means is an introduction of chemical weapons. When you do that, you have an issue with protecting troops and ensuring the safety of civilians in the battle zone.

[17:40:08] STARR: Samples from an attack a few weeks ago near Hasakah, Syria, confirmed mustard agent was used. Now two attacks this week in Kurdish northern Iraq are being low closely looked at. Officials hope more testing will tell them if mustard or possible chlorine, an agent the Kurds say ISIS used against them before, was used again.

(GUNFIRE)

STARR: Kurdish fighters have proven capable against ISIS but a chemical weapon would make their task more difficult.

LEIGHTON: They are much more exposed, much more at risk. So this is, for them, very dangerous and could really hurt their ability to fight.

(SHOUTING)

STARR: The question now, from where could ISIS have obtained the mustard agent. All the weapons from Saddam Hussein in Iraq, a secret stockpile from Syrian President Bashar al Assad that was somehow not destroyed in 2014 under an international agreement, or did ISIS manufacture the agent on its own?

President Obama once threatened military action if the Syrian regime used chemical weapons.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized.

(GUNFIRE)

STARR: Now that it's ISIS, what will the Obama administration do?

LEIGHTON: I think it's very important for us to send a signal not only to the Kurds but to ISIS as well that we are going to support the Kurds in any way that we conceivably can.

STARR: Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Kim Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst; and Bob Baer, former CIA operative and CNN intelligence and security analyst, are with us to talk about how significant this is.

Kim, let me start with you.

You were reminded in that Barbara Starr piece that President Obama, not that long ago, threatened a U.S. strike on Syria if the Assad regime used chemical weapons. Ultimately, we didn't see that strike. But if there is a confirmed link here, does that cross the line for the Obama administration?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: With the mustard agent, the implication is that it was in some stockpile that got overrun and ISIS got a hold of it without any cooperation with the Assad regime. There is another aspect to this that there are repeated claims by human rights organizations and Syrian rebel groups that the Assad regime is using chlorine. Chlorine wasn't part of the deal brokered with Russia and the U.S. to get rid of its chemical weapons. It's illegal under international law. But it's not part of that original deal. So at this point, I don't think you're going to see much of an escalation by the Obama administration against the Assad regime. HARLOW: Bob, he's talking about the fact that it is believed these

were from long leftover stockpiles and ISIS mixed the mustard agent themselves. Is that what you think is most likely?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY ANALYST: I think so. There's no evidence the Syrian regime gave these weapons to the Islamic State. You can't rule it out. But they've got technicians that could do this, put them on warheads, mortars and fire them against the Kurds. What the Kurds are concerned about, according to Kurdish sources, is they'll take this mustard gas and fire it into Erbil, close to yesterday's strike, causing the foreigners to flee the city. And that would be an absolute catastrophe to the Kurds. We may not react to the mustard gas attack by the Islamic State but the Kurds will for sure.

HARLOW: But is it more concerning if indeed ISIS was able to mix this itself, to see a terror group like ISIS, so well-funded, growing so much, taking so much more territory, able to essentially to make its own chemical weapons?

DOZIER: Absolutely. Even if they're only making them in small quantities. If they use them often enough, the U.S. and the coalition have to start thinking about, do we start supplying Kurdish forces and Iraqi forces with a way to combat this? Like a full bio suit and the training on how to put those suits on. And after each possible exposure, do they have to have a new one every time? Those suits cost up to hundreds of dollars. And they're hard to wear in that heat. So it adds, especially for the Kurds who suffered great losses through chemical attacks under Saddam Hussein a psychological impact degrading their ability to fight.

HARLOW: How does it change the way the Kurds fight? That the U.S. arms and equips the Kurds and others? How does it change the game on the ground?

[17:45:02] BAER: Well, I think it changes the game on the ground if there are widespread casualties thanks to gas on the part of the Islamic State. I think there's going to be more pressure on Washington to do more against the Islamic State. We just cannot let these crazies with chemical weapons shooting them in all directions. I don't know how many they have. But if they do have a lot and they manufacture this stuff, there's going to be a lot of pressure on the Obama administration to really move more than air strikes.

HARLOW: I'm interested, Bob, as a former CIA operative, if this surprises you. Certainly it's a headline that I think shocks a lot of people to see is, chemical weapons in the same headline. Does it surprise you they've been able to achieve this?

BAER: Not at all, Poppy. The fact is a lot of Saddam's experts have defected to the Islamic State. They know how to handle this stuff and how to manufacture mustard gas. They could build it locally. They know how to put it on mortars. It's very complicated. Without these former officers that had once been with Saddam, they wouldn't have managed to get this far. No, it's not a surprise.

HARLOW: Bob Baer and Kimberly Dozer, thank you as always for the perspective.

Coming up next, a story two years in the making, children as young as 12 years old telling CNN their role in bringing drugs across the Mexican border. Why they say it's a matter of life and death. You will not want to miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:40] HARLOW: Mexican drug traffickers are finding a new way to get drugs across the U.S. border: Drones. This week, two men pleaded guilty. They admitted to smuggling 28 pounds of heroin on a drone that crossed into California. U.S. officials say it is the first cross-border drug seizure involving a drone but it is not the first attempt.

This is a picture of a drone that crashed in a Tijuana parking lot in January. It was loaded with packets of methamphetamine. U.S. officials say the use of drones to smuggle drugs in from Mexico is an emerging and ever-growing threat.

Now I want you to see this. A special CNN report takes you into the life of teens, teens forced into doing the work of violent drug cartels. The names have been changed to protect the young men and their families because they may still be at risk for cartel retaliation. Here's the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometime they make you kill someone, sometimes they make you beat up someone, stab someone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've moved weed. I have moved cocaine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know I directly, me, myself, I have shot down like five people.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get recruited at any time by anyone and at any age.

I've moved weed. I've moved cocaine. I would teach illegals how to say U.S. citizen or I would hide them. You got to be ready to die at me moment. It's a fear of mine but I've accepted it as an inevitableability.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to do it because I knew they are bad people and they do bad things.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I grew up in Mexico and I went to the U.S. Here in the United States, the cartel, the drugs kill families.

(MUSIC) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you know a member from the drug cartels, they come to you and tell you, you want to join. But if you don't know them, sometimes they make you kill someone, sometimes they make you just beat up someone, stab someone.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I've been here in Eagle Pass, you know, I've crossed drugs, smuggled drugs, cocaine, marijuana, heroin.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, right now, after everything I've done, all of the problems I've caused, I just want out. I want out of all of this. But if they ever need me, I know that I have to go back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Thank you to our colleagues at CNN digital for that remarkable reporting.

Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[17:57:50] FRED HEINRICH, CNN HERO: In the film industry, there are very few people of color. I think people feel shut out.

As an editor for over 40 years -- picks up the pace, makes it more exciting. I thought, I'm going to help the people who need the help the most.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Growing up, I loved film and television. But my childhood was mostly taking care of my dad. He was pretty ill. I really didn't have like the opportunities to pursue my dreams.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You always say yes in Improv. Yes to everything.

HEINRICH: We bring in industry professionals who teach low-income and minority youths how to make films.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And action.

HEINRICH: The training we provide is hands on.

Once the camera is set, you'll want to shoot everything you can from that angle.

Screen writing, directing, camera, editing, producing, casting, it's necessary that they learn all these skills.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to make emotionally impacting films here.

HEINRICH: The students who graduate find jobs through contacts with studio personnel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't imagine where I would be without the program.

(LAUGHTER)

Words can't say much about how much appreciation I have. When my dad passed away, he's given me good advice.

HEINRICH: We're looking for more diverse future for our students in Hollywood. And they're achieving that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:59:30] HARLOW: What a great program.

Thank you for being with me.

Ahead tonight on CNN, "The Seventies," "Terrorism at Home and Abroad." From kidnapping and murder of the Olympic athletes to a member of the royal family, the 1970s witnessed a horrific series of kidnapping, hijackings and bombings. "The Seventies," "Terrorism at Home and Abroad," tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern on right here on CNN.

A reminder, you can get all of the latest news all of the time at CNN.com and on our mobile app.

I'm Poppy Harlow. Thank you so much for being with me. I'll see you back here tomorrow evening.

"Smerconish" begins right now.