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Dr. Drew
Donald Trump Bombarded By Supporters at Iowa State Fair; The Stump For Trump Sisters; Death of White Teenager Killed By A Police Gets Much Different Treatment by the Public; Mother Teaches Little Girl How to Steal. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 17, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:08] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Donald Trump, no matter what he says or whom he offends, could he really become president? The
stump for Trump sisters are here with me. Plus, this teen was killed by a cop. Is his death different from the others? I will speak to the family`s
attorney.
It all starts right now, though, at the "Top Of The Feed." Donald Trump bombarded by supporters at the Iowa state fair this weekend, where he took
children, of course, for a ride on his $7 million helicopter. Then, today, he showed up for jury duty in New York. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 2016 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will be doing jury duty on Monday morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SUPPORTER: Donald!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE PRESS: Donald! Donald Trump! Donald!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: I think he was the only potential juror this morning, who rolled up to the Supreme Court as here in lower Manhattan in a
black stretch limousine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 2016 all the way, Donald. It is going to be a landslide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Trump holds on to his commanding lead and significantly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: A brand new poll from Fox News, showing him well ahead in the national poll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Mr. Trump, you are not a nice person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SUPPORTER: We do not need one.
TRUMP: That is true, but actually I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER (voice-over): As for Trump, it was a claustrophobic chaotic spin through the fairgrounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: And, you can see here, everyone is trying to get that hand-on- hand, up close and person moment with Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Let us get a picture with everybody real fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He did take a bunch of kids onto his helicopter.
TRUMP: Let us give them a helicopter ride. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SUPPORTER: I got fist pumped by Donald Trump. Next president of the United States!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Sam Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.com; Areva Martin, attorney and legal consultant; Mike Catherwood, my "Love Line" and KABC
radio co-host. He is also the host of "Chain Reaction" on GSN. Omarosa, former contestant on Trump`s "The Apprentice," and Ryan Sorba, Chairman of
The Young Conservatives of California. Sam -- Sam, he keeps leading in the polls. Are people taking him seriously, finally?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Here is the thing, I think that America and Americans, they have this gross -- they love to be
entertained. OK? They love reality show characters, and they are somehow combining that. They do want this unfilteredness.
And, that is exactly what Donald Trump is giving them. But, I also think that, that is his strategy. I mean he goes on, and he talks about him
going to jury duty. We see this here but at the same token, he has been summoned for jury duty five times that he never went before, but now it is
convenient for him.
PINSKY: Well, apparently -- allegedly, he did not get, Mike, the previous five summons, because he has his name on so many buildings --
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: -- they sent them to previous buildings, and he did not get them.
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, HOST OF "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: Yes. I buy that.
PINSKY: That is what they are saying.
CATHERWOOD: I am buying it, because I am nobody with nothing. And, I do not get my jury summons, because it goes to some other address, you know?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL CONSULTANT: Oh come on. Come on.
PINSKY: Areva, are you hearing that?
MARTIN: Now, he does own half of Manhattan. So, it is possible that he did not get the original summons. But this guy is brilliant at turning
everything into a media show about him.
And, that is what he did with this jury duty. He shows up in a black stretch limousine, and he does not park where everyone else parks. He
parks in front of the courthouse. Meets all the media, and he makes this about Donald Trump.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Omarosa -- hold up. What is that Omarosa?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: You were trying to say something there.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH, FORMER CONTESTANT ON TRUMP`S "THE APPRENTICE": I was saying was he supposed to show up in a Prius. I mean
he is Donald Trump.
SCHACHER: But, it was a "No Parking" zones.
PINSKY: He has a limo.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: Not all billionaires ride around in limos with their, you know, in helicopters with their names on it.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: I mean --
CATHERWOOD: I am not in any way being pejorative to Mr. Trump. That is how he wants to live his life and he made his money his own way. But, you
know, there are billionaires who do not necessarily have to have a conspicuous consumptions.
PINSKY: And, Ryan, where are we? What does it say about us that we are captured by this guy? I will ask two questions; that and does he have a
liability of women? I think I am hearing a little push back from women these days.
RYAN SORBA, CHAIRMAN OF THE YOUNG CONSERVATIVES OF CALIFORNIA: I think that he is going to have the same liability with women that he is going to
have with Hispanics. I think that if people disagree with him, that he is going to have a liability with those folks. If they agree with him and if
they are fed up with the current system in which we got a bunch of republicans in office. They do not actually do anything and just cow tow
to the right, then they are going to --
PINSKY: Well, let me interrupt you.
SORBA: -- love Donald Trump.
PINSKY: Is it not the case that the RNC is the reason that he is being sort of pushed aside? If the committees -- the party organization, both
democratic and republican are as bureaucratically encumbered as our government?
SORBA: I believe that is true. I mean the RNC is the reason that we are having a problem right now with messaging. It is not Donald Trump`s fault.
Donald Trump is saying what the GOP should have been saying all along. But the GOP is filled with a bunch of social climbers. They just want to be
popular. They just want to be in power.
PINSKY: Well, hold on.
SORBA: They keep cow towing.
PINSKY: OK. Areva, your answer to that.
MARTIN: I am just excited to hear and I assume you are republican, right?
SORBA: Absolutely.
MARTIN: I am glad to hear the republicans critique themselves. We agree. The party is in a mess right now. So, for the democrats, we are excited to
hear you critique your own party.
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
[21:05:00] PINSKY: Omarosa, let me -- I want to read something for that Donald said back in 2011 in a radio show in Albany. Here is the quote. "I
have a great relationship with the blacks. I have always had a great relationship with the blacks."
(LAUGHING)
MARTIN: Oh, blacks.
PINSKY: Is that -- I mean --
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: No. That quote has been called to question, Dr. Drew.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well, the question -- but the question is, though, is that illustrative of the kind of bluster that he pushes through without thinking
about the impact. And, what he is saying -- and again, with women, is he going to have trouble because of his use of language?
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: Let me address this quote first. That question -- that quote has been called to question, first of all, "The blacks."
PINSKY: OK.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: First of all, he has a great relationship in our community. I do not know about anyone else`s experience, but my experience
is that Donald Trump can get along with just about anybody, and he relates to everyone.
There are people who are rooting for him, because he has tapped into something that most people underestimate, and that is the power of citizen
cynicism. And, people have become very cynical.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: That is interesting. Well, to that point, joining me via Skype is two of Mr. Trump`s biggest supporters, Diamond and Silk. Ladies, what has
he tapped into here? What is it about him that is captured your imagination?
LYNETTE "DIAMOND" HARDAWAY, DONALD TRUMP`S SUPPORTER: Well, look, he resonates with the average Americans. We are African-Americans, we stand
with the silent majority.
ROCHELLE "SILK" RICHARDSON, DONALD TRUMP`S SUPPORTER: Yes.
DIAMOND: And, he resonates with us. He speak our language. He tell it like it is, and that is what we like about him.
PINSKY: But, it seems to me that there -- I could not imagine somebody more divorced if terms of his experience and the kind of life he leads than
the rest of us and yet when he speaks, it seems to get through to the average person many times. Is that right?
DIAMOND: Because he use the common sense approach, Dr. Drew. He use a common sense approach. We, American people are tired of all of this
political -- the political babble gabble. Just give us the common sense approach to solve these problems.
(LAUGHING)
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: We need a solution.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: That is what we need.
SILK: That is what we need.
DIAMOND: And, that is why we look at him. That is why.
SILK: That is right.
PINSKY: And, yet he does not really give us any specifics yet.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: That is what I am concerned about.
PINSKY: But, he makes us feel like he is going to take care of it.
DIAMOND: They will not give him an opportunity to give us specifics. You see what happened on the last debate. Give him a chance to spill it out
for you and he will.
SILK: That is right.
PINSKY: And, yet, Ryan, you would say that he ought to not give any specifics because that will tie him up. And he needs to be just very vague
at this stage, I think it is.
SORBA: I think he needs to be vague and I think he needs to anchor the debate far to the right. So, that when it comes to the art of making a
deal, he has some wiggle room. I mean when you go to sell a car, you put 20-grand on the ad, but you are willing to take 18.
That is what Donald Trump, I think, is doing right now. He is anchoring the debate far to the right. And, when he goes to make a compromise he is
going to get exactly what he wanted all along.
PINSKY: Let us hear from our audience. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I find myself to be a Trump supporter. I like the way he says stuff. You can hold him accountable for
what he says, because he says it loud and clear and precisely.
PINSKY: And, usually -- well, Areva.
MARTIN: We just do not know what it is he is saying.
SCHACHER: Right.
MARTIN: These ladies said, he has not had an opportunity. He is on every -- they said he does not --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDINECE MEMBER: Oh, we do not know --
MARTIN: -- Let me just say this. They said he does not have an opportunity to tell us the specifics. He is on every television show every
day for hours. He is getting more airtime than any other candidate.
PINSKY: I think that -- but Areva, to be fair. I think they were talking about the debates that he did not really get his chance at the debates.
But, what are you hearing from him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I like the specifics of what he is talking about.
PINSKY: A war? A war?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The immigration -- the border patrol and better jobs for Americans. I like those subjects. He is saying it
loud and clear.
CATHERWOOD: Here is the -- the reality is, is that, you know, regardless if someone is coming from the left or the right, if you are going to run
for president, even at this preliminary stage, you definitely have something to lose, by alienating your base, by -- you know, maybe not being
able to then further your political career. Donald Trump is in the very dangerous and very admirable position of having absolutely nothing to lose.
PINSKY: You are right, and listen --
CATHERWOOD: If he gets buried after this primary, so be it. He has never been more famous. He is never going to make more money.
PINSKY: And -- You are right. And, people love the idea that he is not incumbent or somehow bought and sold by any special interests. People like
that.
MARTIN: People has a problem with that argument, Dr. Drew. He says he is not bought and sold. Everyone else is beholden to billionaires. But, yet,
he is a billionaire that is buying the race because he is a billionaire. That argument is so illogical.
PINSKY: But -- it is illogical and yet he is saying he is doing it on behalf of the people and speaking the people`s language, not the
billionaire`s language.
SCHACHER: But, there is one thing that Donald Trump knows how to doand that is how to sell. And, right now he is selling himself.
PINSKY: And, also, I think the people -- the elder -- the older population, like the Medicare age, this sounds like a president to them.
They remember when people used to talk like this.
And, the rest of us want somebody who just says, I am going to take care of things. I think that is all he is saying is I will take care of this. I
promise you, and people believe it.
CATHERWOOD: People --
PINSKY: We are going to continue. We got to take a break. Later, the public outrage -- where is the public outbreak about a Caucasian -- a white
teen killed by police? That young man unarmed killed by police. We will talk about it next.
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:09:55] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Jeb and Hillary on the same day, they said Donald Trump too strong a tone. Rand Paul, you have to understand, is a disaster in the polls.
The Iraq war is a disaster for the Bushes. That is why the last thing we need is another Bush.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have borders where people are being killed all over. The world is cracking up, and they are worried about my tone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Honestly, I think we are led by stupid things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Donald Trump, not afraid to slam his opponents any chance he gets. But in a Fox new poll, he shows a commanding lead over his GOP rivals.
Back with Sam, Areva, Mike, Omarosa, Ryan and the Trump sisters, Diamond and Silk.
Diamond, I read something that he said to NBC News, and Omaroso, you can tell me if this is a pocketful or not, but it is in 1989. Quote, "A well-
educated, black man has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market.
If I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black man, because I believe they do have an actual advantage. Diamond, he says stuff
like that, does not that get under your skin a little bit?
[21:15:09] DIAMOND: No, it does not get under my skin. Listen. I do not know why people love to run at the well-dressed lines to look at the naked
truth.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: He is telling the naked truth. Let him tell it and speak it the way he need to. That is why we love him.
SILK: That is right. That is right. That is why we love him.
PINSKY: Is there anything he said recently that has really caught your attention? I would love to hear what you consider the naked truth. In
other words, is there something he said recently --
DIAMOND: The naked truth is that he is going to secure that border.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: He went down there. He did not have to debate about it. He went down there, not to take events. But, naked truth is that he is going to
bring these jobs back over here.
SILK: Oh, yes.
DIAMOND: Where people are not only surviving, but they will be able to thrive again in this country. And, that is what everyone is so excited
about, Dr. Drew.
SILK: Oh, yes.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right. I am going to take comments from our audience. Now, thank you.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
TONY, AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think -- my name is Tony.
PINSKY: All right.
TONY: I think Donald Trump might win the popular vote. I call him Danny Warbucks, basically. I think because we are basically -- the country is
tired of the politicians from the 20th century.
And, they want something that is going to hear it to what is going on with their personalized jobs and the economy and so on and so forth. So, I
think he is riding on a wave right now. I think maybe he might win the popular vote. I do not know.
PINSKY: It can usually happen, guys. Omaroso, you are smiling through all of this.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: I like Diamond and Silk. She was filing her nails through the segment. And, she said he went down there to take
measurements. I love this. You see, Donald Trump is connecting to people you would not expect. And, you are going to see an incredible turnout for
this primary, and he will take the victory.
MARTIN: Now, I do not think Donald Trump is going to win, but I have been thinking about Donald Trump. And, you know who he reminds me of, Dr. Drew?
Arnold Schwarzenegger.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
MARTIN: So, if you are in California in the early 2000, when we recall Gray Davis, he jumped in to the race and swarms the people. You could not
go anywhere without thousands of people, you know, coming out to see Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was that celebrity in that governor`s race and that was
a game changer.
SCHACHER: But, what is that say about --
MARTIN: So, I will not give Donald --
SCHACHER: Yes.
MARTIN: -- before Donald, there was Arnold.
SCHACHER: But, what does that say about our culture, where people love the fact of electing a celebrity. And, I think that is the problem. As people
are really not only looking at -- yes, he is unfiltered. He says it like he means it. But, I think him being a celebrity is, it is the main reason.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, but that is --
MARTIN: We have a very similar message.
PINSKY: But that is the culture we lived in. But, Ryan, there was also a Jesse, too.
SORBA: Right. But, I think there is a key difference between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Donald Trump. And, that key difference is Arnold
Schwarzenegger went down after the ballot initiatives failed. I do not think Donald Trump will wimp out. Yes, I just called Arnold Schwarzenegger
a wimp.
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: By the way, Arnold, you are welcome to come in and debate anytime. You are welcome in this program anytime.
(CROSSTALKS)
CATHERWOOD: And, there is another major difference. And, you know, Donald Trump has not had children with his mate.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, I think he is making a mockery of the system.
SCHACHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean he is turning it into a popularity contest. And, this is not the school president, this is the
president of the United States. He got to take this seriously.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, he is trying to win it by throwing money at it and basically turning it into a popularity contest. He is a
Kardashian with better hair. That is what he is.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Omarosa, or is it just win by any means?
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: You know, I do not understand all this resentment towards reality personality. I have to tell you, I ran for office before
Dr. Drew. I ran for school board.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: And, it is because I was passionate about it because I believed that I could make a difference and I believe that Donald Trump
is passionate about what he is saying and he can make a difference.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: And, Ryan, you represent this young conservative group here in California. Are you behind Mr. Trump? Would you -- and if you are, would
you imagined yourself to be behind him?
SORBA: Well --
PINSKY: Or is this a surprise?
SORBA: Well, I will support Donald Trump if he is a nominee. And, I think that he is a great candidate. Because I think he is anchoring the debate
so far to the right that even if we compromise, we are going to still get what we want. And, I do not think any other candidate has been able to do
anything like that.
PINSKY: Are you going to break the gridlock in the Republican Party or do we need a new party?
SORBA: I mean, there has been a struggle -- the conservative movement is a fractious coalition of libertarian, traditionalists, neocons, crunchy cons,
and they are all --
CATHERWOOD: Crunchy cons.
SORBA: -- you know, competing for power within the party.
MARTIN: Can I ask one question, though? As a true republican, does not it bother you when he got on that debate stage and was the first and only to
raise his hand to say, if I am not the nominee for the Republican Party, I might run as an independent? That seems like that should bothered two
republicans.
SORBA: Again, I think he is being strategic. I think he is telling them, if you do not put me into power, you are going to have problems. And, I am
glad he is doing it because he is anchoring the debate to the right, and we need that so bad.
[21:20:05] PINSKY: Diamond, you want to ring in on this?
DIAMOND: Well, hey, he is telling the truth.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: He want to focus on us. Give him the opportunity to say what he wants to say.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: That is what they should have get on the debate stage.
SILK: Yes.
DIAMOIND: And, if the GOP, the Grand Old Party does not want to let him be in, then he may have to run as an independent.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(CROSSTALKS)
SCHACHER: I feel like this is like a funny guy sketch. I still cannot believe that people are supporting Donald Trump, somebody who is
marginalizing people left and right, making gross generalizations, throwing people under the bus, veterans, anybody.
(CROSSTALKS)
SORBA: We already know Donald Trump.
SCHACHER: That is not are good president for a nation.
PINSKY: Ryan. Hang on. Ryan.
SCHACHER: That is not a good president for our nation.
SORBA: People already feel like they know Donald Trump. You know, people know him. He has been around for a long time. They know Donald Trump is
not a racist. They know Donald Trump does not discriminate against people. They just know that Donald Trump loves America. Donald Trump wants what is
best for America --
SCHACHER: How is that unified people, though?
SORBA: And, he is not afraid to talk about it.
SCHACHER: How does that unified people.
MARTIN: Put numbers down for Donald Trump. We have to be clear, Dr. Drew, we are talking about a small percentage of the GOP Party. Donald Trumo is
negative --
SORBA: A very small? He is leading in the polls --
MARTIN: Donald Trump`s negative amongst people outside of the GOP are really high. This guys has really high negatives. So, if there was a two-
party race between him and Hillary Clinton or a democrat, the numbers say he would get crushed.
SORBA: Well, you do not know that.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: He would get crushed.
PINSKY: Hold on.
MARTIN: That is what the numbers are saying.
CATHERWOOD: Let us point out.
PINSKY: Mike.
CATHERWOOD: Let us point out. There has been enough time now -- there has been enough time now since he made those first, you know, inflammatory
comments about Mexican immigrants.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: You know, whether it would be the controversy over how he treats women, whether it would be these new comments about African-
Americans or -- you know he has --
MARTIN: "The Blacks."
CATHERWOOD: -- he has "The Blacks." Yes. He has thousands of --
PINSKY: A pocketful. We got it. We got it, a pocketful.
CATHERWOOD: He has thousands of employees and zero people. And, you know, Omarosa sits here as one of them. Zero people have come forward to say
that Donald Trump has ever in any way exposed any --
PINSKY: Discriminate.
CATHERWOOD: -- any type of racism, xenophobia --
PINSKY: Well, in fact --
MARTIN: Well, how about a woman that came forth, the breast-feeding, the lawyer --
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: Why do you always give examples, Areva?
(LAUGHING)
MARTIN: There are lots of people who have come forward, Mike, and say that --
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Wait. Hold on. And, my understanding is actually he pays more to women in terms of his executive staff.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. So, finish this up.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: You know, in fact, if you look at his organization, the women who are in high-level appointments compared to their counterpart
are paid double, triple in some cases. So, it is obvious in his organizational cultures that women are important.
CATHERWOOD: And, they are hot too.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: We are going to leave it there. Next up -- thank you guys. A white teenager killed by a police, but his death getting a much different
treatment by the public. We will debate this after we come back.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:26:34] UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: A 19-year-old Zachary Hammond was killed last month during a pot bust in a parking lot at Hardee`s. Well,
police say Hammond tried to run over the officer with the car. The family`s autopsy, though, disputes this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGIE HAMMOND, ZACHARY HAMMOND`S MOTHER: Zach did not do anything to deserve two bullets in his side. And, I need somebody to tell me why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC BLAND, ATTORNEY FOR ZACHARY HAMMOND`S FAMILY: There was no amber alert. There was no kidnapping. There was no murder suspect. There was
no gun. Nothing that would require deadly force to be used.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGIE HAMMOND: We just lost a lot of confidence. Confidence that we actually did have with the police. It is just shattered us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And the attorney for Zachary Hammond`s family says, "If Zachary were black, the outrage over this death would have been stunning" -- quote,
"Stunning." Back with Sam, Areva, Mike, Omarosa and Ryan. Omarosa and Ryan on the audience with us. Joining me via Skype, John Cardillo, WJNO
radio host and former NYPD Officer. So, John, is this shooting being ignored because there is not a racial issue?
JOHN CARDILLO, WJNO RADIO HOST AND FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Yes, most definitely. Absolutely, without a doubt.
PINSKY: Is it as egregious as it appears?
CARDILLO: You know, right now, I do not see a real tactical problem with what the cops did. There is this prevailing settlement --
PINSKY: What?
(LAUGHING)
CARDILLO: Well, let me finish. It is a prevailing sentiment that a vehicle is not a weapon. And, if the incident went down as the cop was
saying it went down. And driving past an officer who had to push off the vehicle, heading towards other vehicles and the public, subsequent to a
drug deal, firing at the driver, would hit him in the shoulder and back.
SCHACHER: A drug deal? A drug deal? Marijuana? Marijuana that is decriminalized in most of America.
CARDILLO: It does not matter.
SCHACHER: He deserves to be killed? Are you serious right now?
(CROSSTALKS)
CARDILLO: Hold on.
SCHACHER: First of all. You are assuming that this police report is accurate.
PINSKY: One at a time. One at a time.
CARDILLO: Well, hold on.
SCHACHER: There is discrepancy.
CARDILLO: But, hold on. It is not decriminalized to deal in a parking lot in South Carolina. That argument does not matter.
SCHACHER: It does not mean that he should be killed. He is 17. OK? There are a lot of teenagers out there.
CARDILLO: OK. So, let him run you over. Let him come at you with a car and when you get hit with a car, and you are in intensive care say --
SCHACHER: The autopsy does not match that. The autopsy does not match that. He was shot in the back and the side.
CARDILLO: Right. Exactly. If a car is coming at me, and I jump out of the way, and it is heading towards my partners, and I fire at that driver
as he is going by me. I am hitting him in the shoulder and in the back.
SCHACHER: Can we do better? Can we agree that we need to do better that we need reform. Why cannot we just come together and we all agree --
CARDILLO: Hold on. Is he doing better? Is people that are committing crimes, not trying to kill police with their vehicles?
SCHACHER: He is 17.
CARDILLO: Let us put the blame where it belongs.
PINSKY: Areva.
MARTIN: First of all, he was not committing a crime. This whole bust, this sting operation was targeted towards the woman that was in the car
with him. So, we should be very clear that he was not committing a crime.
CARDILLO: Areva --
MARTIN: And, it is just really, really disturbing when ex-police officers come on and talk about these cases where you have unarmed teens and when
you cannot figure out a better way to arrest someone or to deal with the situation other than to use lethal force, we are in trouble in this
country. We are in trouble. That young man did not deserve to die. If officers do not have better training --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CARDILLO: How do you stop a vehicle?
MARTIN: -- and we cannot trust what they are saying, because the report as Sam has said has been changed so many times. The police officers have
given so many inconsistent statements. And, they will not release the video dash cam. They will not release the tape.
[21:30:01] CARDILLO: Hold on. Let me say something. What is this expectation and this entitlement that investigations are not allowed to
take their course and we are entitled to videos the day after?
MARTIN: It is called transparency, John.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
MARTIN: It is called transparency. It is called transparency.
CARDILLO: As a lawyer you know it is called material evidence. And, it does not need to be released to the public before the investigation is
complete. It is ridiculous.
SCHACHER: Why not?
PINSKY: Let me go to the audience. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My father was a former NYPD. And, you know, there are a lot of extreme situations that law enforcement
officers have to endure.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, we are all human, we do made mistakes. But, there are also a lot of things that -- what do you call it
- situations that they do not train you for. You know certain people, not everybody is going to act calm like you or I. Some people`s natural
reactions are just extremely hyper, so you have to access it accordingly.
PINSKY: Is your father still with us?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No. He passed away of cancer.
PINSKY: I was just wondering -- I am sorry to hear that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Do not be sorry.
PINSKY: But I am wondering if what he would feel -- can you channel him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: My father was honorable. If you were honest with him, he treated you with respect. If you came at him in a
demeanor that seemed like you had something to hide, or you are doing something wrong then he began to question what you were doing.
The main thing is you are always supposed to treat people like people until you find a reason to question what are you really getting at? Are you here
to hurt somebody? Are you here to, you know, cause trouble? Once you see that, then you are supposed to assess from there.
SCHACHER: You mentioned training though. So, do you feel that our officers today? And, probably in no way, shape or form, by us having this
conversation are we saying that all cops are bad. I appreciate the cops out there who are risking their lives every single day? But, do you agree
that there are needs to be more training?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Absolutely.
SCHACHER: I feel like they are setting them up for failure half the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: A perfect example, look at what happened on last week with the kid who had ADHD. He was handcuffed behind
him.
SCHACHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: They were not trained to understand it. That is how that kid acts, just naturally. He is not going not going to
hurt anybody, it is just he is impulsively full energy --
PINSKY: Well, let me bring on the phone. I got Eric Bland. He is the attorney for the Hammond family. Now, Mr. Bland, there is more going on
here than just the sort of global issues we are talking about. There are some specifics about this case that are super disturbing.
And, I am, first of all, wondering why the woman, who is the subject of this sting was not speaking up on behalf of what happened to the young man.
But, I am hearing the witnesses say that the body was desecrated, and something was planted on his body. Can you tell me about that?
ERIC BLAND, ATTORNEY FOR ZACHARY HAMMOND`S FAMILY: Yes. Dr. Drew, good evening. But, first, I want to dispel some of the liberty of facts that,
that gentleman just said. Number one, the officer was to the side of the car and he had time to reflect and think before he pulled the trigger.
Number two, there were no officers in front of the car that he needed to protect. And, number three, this dash cam needs to be released. And, the
fact that this gentleman says the investigation is continuing.
That is not an exception under our state`s freedom of information act. The fact that the law enforcement agency has said that we are investigating is
not a legal reason for not releasing the video cam.
PINSKY: All right. And --
ATTY. BLAND: Under the desecration, Dr. Drew, there is testimony from a credible witness at the Hardee`s that after the shooting took place, the
shooting officer, Lieutenant Mark Tiller, went to the trunk of his car, got something out of the trunk of his car that fit in his hand.
Not a defibrillator, not anything that was related to medical, but something that was small in his hand. And, he went over to the body of the
victim. He lifted the victim up. He put what was ever in his hand underneath it and put it down.
The second thing that is inflammatory is, that after another uniformed officer arrived on the scene, 40 seconds after the shooting, there was a
celebration where the officers are alleged to have high 5`d each other.
And, one of the officers lifted the hand of Zachary Hammond and high 5`d him. And, the officer that came on the scene had to resign his employment
last week.
PINSKY: OK. Thank you, Mr. Bland. We are going to continue this conversation. I want to know about the All Lives Matter Movement. Where
they have been with this? John stays with us. I still got Omarosa and Ryan in the audience.
Later, is this mother actually teaching a little girl how to steal? Really specific sort of strategy deployed here. We will get into that and more
after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:34:27] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: There is something different about this case. Zachary Hammond was white.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, HOST OF "WIRED IN WITH SEGUN" PODCAST: Forget the color. Deal with the boys in blue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND" PODCAST: There is no need for deadly force, and there is an unarmed person killed again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ODUOLOWU: These are the people that are supposed to be trained in conflict resolution. So, why are they resolving these conflicts with violence?
WATTS: With death.
ODUOLOWU: With violence.
WATTS: With death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: Why is another unarmed young man? I do not care what color he is, because we do ourselves a disservice if we do not just look at this as a
humane issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, Rolonda is exactly right. But, when the police -- when the victim of the police shooting is white, it seems like it just gets a yawn
from everybody. I hear all the time that media is being scrutinized for inflaming these topics.
But, we are bringing out what looks to me like a pretty outrageous case. This is the case of Zachary Hammond. An unarmed white teenager shot and
killed by police during a marijuana sting, if there is such a thing.
And, I am trying to generate conversation. We get kind of a yawn out of it. And, so, is it the media or is it us? I am back with Sam, Areva,
Mike, Omarosa, Ryan and John. And, where are all the "Our Lives Matter" supporters when Zachary died? Areva, where were they?
MARTIN: Well, I can tell you where the "Black Lives Matter" people were. We were all over this. "Black Lives Matter" is why this matter has even
gotten the media attention that it has gotten.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes, I agree.
MARTIN: They cope up immediately on this issue, so they deserve a lot of credit.
PINSKY: I totally agree. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, I spoke with my brother, who is a police officer back in Ohio. A few months ago, he told me that he was
considering quitting the police force.
[21:40:00] PINSKY: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: He felt like his life was not going on a right direction upon the guidance of the police system.
PINSKY: Is this because of the experience he is having as a police officer or is this because of the public sort of scrutiny that is happening now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is being a police officer. He said, "I felt I picked up on the training." That is what they want him to
do. He cannot morally go work with it.
PINSKY: Is there a specific he gave you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: To me is brutality and violence.
SCHACHER: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Like in a violent manner.
PINSKY: Too aggressive?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, too aggressive.
PINSKY: He did not like the aggression.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: Omarosa.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: You know, I am very sensitive to this issue because of my brother`s murder. And, I think when --
PINSKY: Well, tell people about all this.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: Yes, you know was killed a couple years ago. And, since then, I have been an advocate on the hill for victims of violent
crime. And, I think what happens in cases like this is that there is not the organization and the mobilization to raise a case like this to a higher
profile.
And, it is not that we do not value the lives of young people that die, but you have to know how to utilize the press, the media and the momentum of
the situation in order to bring it to the forefront. And, it is just so sad what happened to this young man.
MARTIN: And, I think the narrative, we have to look at what has been happening over the year, Dr. Drew. We have been focused for the last 12-18
months on African-American men, who not only have been killed more often by police officers, but who suffered such disparities in the criminal justice
system.
SCHACHER: Right.
MARTIN: So, that is the narrative in which we find Zachary Hammond being shot. It is not as if his life is not important. But, it is the issues
that the DOJ talked about when they went in to Ferguson, when they went in to Philadelphia, when they went in to Cleveland, when they went in all
those cities, they that said there is some implicit biased against African- Americans, and that has to be addressed. It does not make this young man`s life any less important. It is a big issue with race in our criminal
justice system.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Ryan.
SORBA: I was reading up on this story, and according to the left`s favorite newspaper, "The Washington Post," In the past year there have been
616 police shootings that resulted in death. And, of those 616 police shootings, 24 were black. African-Americans constitute 10 to 15 percent of
the population. That is under represented according to the numbers, put out by "The Washington Post."
PINSKY: That was the last 12 months, is that right?
SORBA: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: And, so, you can put this also, way more white people. He is right --
SORBA: Percentage wise.
CATHERWOOD: there is more white people killed by police and non-blacks.
MARTIN: I do not know if those numbers are correct.
SCHACHER: Yes, you cannot argue --
(CROSSTALKS)
SORBA: But, percentage wise, not just numbers -- hard numbers.
MARTIN: We need to talk with our producer to get a check on that statistic, because those numbers is not exact.
PINSKY: Please do. If you can check on that. Washington post, 650.
MARTIN: 624.
PINSKY: OK.
CATHERWOOD: And, also, in 2014 as well. In 2014, there were more blacks. Not more non-black people than black people.
PINSKY: Mostly -- Of course more.
CATHERWOOD: You got to remember, there is way more --
PINSKY: No, I understand.
CATHERWOOD: But, here is the thing. I think when it comes to the issue, why there is not the outrage that we might suspect being that, you know,
there is a lot more media coverage of this young man is that, we all kind of get it. I mean we all kind of get -- there is a bias and there is a
history of treatment for African-Americans in this country that is just white Europeans do not have not had the object.
PINSKY: Yes, but we did a lot of --
CATHERWOOD: You know like -- you guys ever play Mario cart? You do not get the thunderbolt when are you in the lead, because you do not need it.
You know what I am saying? Like, why would you need to stop all the other cars when you are already way in the lead.
(CROSSTALKS)
SCHACHER: So, the Thunderbolt --
SORBA: There are 1.2 million cops in America and you know --
PINSKY: One at a time.
SORBA: There are 1.2 million police officers in the United States. And, no telling how many situations they go through every year. And, 616 is --
One is too high.
SCHACHER: Yes.
SORBA: But, percentage wise, I think we really need to take a look at the reality and realized that most of the time they protect us.
PINSKY: Let me get John quick to take on this. John, keep it kind of short. Go ahead.
CARDILLO: No. I think Ryan stats are dead on and you have to look at the interactions. You cannot say there are more white people in the U.S.
because blacks and whites interact with the police. They are arrested at the same rates. So, by all the numbers -- the last time I was on air with
you, Dr. Drew. Whites are more likely to be shot by a police. The fact that blacks are, is it close narrative, proven by the progressive safe
return, science.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Well --
SCHACHER: It does not add up.
MARTIN: There is a huge debate about that, Dr. Drew. And, the statistics do not bear out those numbers. All the credible reports show that African-
American male is much more likely to be shot by a police than a white male.
CARDILLO: That is not true.
MARTIN: It is absolutely correct.
PINSKY: To be fair -- to be fair, the conversation that we have had repeatedly was we just need police to be better educated, to have a
different approach. And, so, here is the same topic coming up.
MARTIN: Well, we love what we need to be better educated and to have a different approach to African-Americans. S, it is not just training.
There is a racial bias here that we have to deal with.
PINSKY: All right, let us get to the audience. Yes, sir.
MARTIN: Not just training.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just -- it is only a matter of time before the people start shooting at the police and saying why are you
shooting at us. And, it is like, they do not realize it. And that kind of starting a revolution.
PINSKY: Well, John, what do you say to that?
CARDILLO: If you shoot at me, and I am a cop. I am going to shoot back and 35,000 other NYPD guys are going to haunt you down. That is a
felonious criminal disgraceful attitude. It is reprehensible and I hope --
[21:45:00] MARTIN: And your response is just as reprehensible. You are response is just as reprehensible. You are the professional. You are the
professional. You are the professional. Be above reproach, John. The police need to be above reproach. They are the trained professionals.
They are acting under the color of law.
CARDILLO: Hold on. You are advocating shooting at the police. Areva, you are advocating shooting at the police.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: She is not advocating, John.
MARTIN: I have not advocated shooting at the police.
PINSKY: One at a time.
MARTIN: That is absolutely false. I said your comment was as reprehensible. Do you understand English. As reprehensible.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right. Let us hold it. Hold it. Omarosa, go ahead.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: John, it is clear that she did not say that. The point of the matter is this man is expressing his opinion about being a
recipient of that type of aggression. There is no way that you can say that Areva was in any way advocating violence.
MARTIN: Never. Never. Never.
PINSKY: He was saying, if anything he would worry that could happen.
MANIGAULT-STALLWORTH: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I am saying it is just a matter of time before it happened.
PINSKY: Well, you are saying it is going to happen. Be careful. Be careful.
(CROSSTALKS)
(LAUGHING)
SORBA: It has already happened in New York --
PINSKY: All right. Listen. I got to stop there. Next, I got video of what appears to be a mother teaching her little girl how to steal Tequila
as is the custom. Back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram feeds. And, Sam, you are up. And, I
think you got -- we got teen mob. We have hot mom and now we have --
SCHACHER: Now, we have a Tequila mom?
PINSKY: Tequila mom.
SCHACHER: This is an outrageous story from guess?
PINSKY: From where?
CATHERWOOD: From Florida?
SCHACHER: Thank you. Sorry, Floridians, there is something in the water. OK. So, this story was actually --
PINSKY: It is in Florida at Broward County.
SCHACHER: This was in Pembroke Park.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: And, they are hoping the police say that they are hoping that this surveillance footage goes viral. So, they can hopefully catch this
woman. They are assuming is a mom, a mother. And, what she did is she took her daughter --
PINSKY: Daughter.
SCHACHER: Yes. -- to this liquor store. They are assuming that the little girl, 7 years old. She points at the Tequila that she wants. It is a
rather big bottle then leave. The daughter then tries to pick up this very large bottle. It proves to be too large for her.
So, then, the little girl then goes for a smaller bottle and after -- then she soon you will see that she will take the smaller bottle. Place it
behind her back, and she slowly tries to back out of the store. And, then she eventually does completely back out of that store. It is so sad.
PINSKY: The mom is all about distracting the clerk.
SCHACHER: The mom is distracting the clerk, talking to the clerk, bought a $2 bottle of liquor.
PINSKY: Like an airplane bottle.
SCHACHER: Yes, and they leave. So, we have no idea where this daughter and this mother are.
CATHERWOOD: Is it worse that it is tequila, like if they were stealing gum -- honestly, like if they were stealing chips or something would it be --
MARTIN: -- food or something.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: And, it would not be constant with tan mom and taught mom --
CATHERWOOD: Tequila mom. True.
PINSKY: All right, Areva, what do you got?
MARTIN: I have a really good story about police. So, lately whenever dash cam recordings go viral.
PINSKY: Good one.
MARTIN: It is usually a bad thing. This is a good cop.
SCHACHER: Yey.
MARTIN: But, I have dash-cam video and audio of an Ohio State Trooper, who came to the rescue of a truck driver, that had careened down a 60-foot
embankment. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Come on, keep breathing for me. Keep breathing. Keep breathing. Do not you die! Do not you die on me! Do not
you die on me! Come on! Come on! Come on!
One, two, three, four, five, six, sevem eight, nine, ten. There you go. There you go. There you go. Good. Stay with me. Stay with me, all
right. Stay with me. He is breathing again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
MARTIN: This guy for 12 minutes, Dr. Drew, performing CPR on this trucker, and the trucker made a recovery. A full recovery.
PINSKY: Wow.
MARTIN: And, this trooper was given a certificate of recognition for his heroic action in saving that trucker`s life.
SCHACHER: Awesome.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
MARTIN: Way to go, pops!
PINSKY: It is one of the worst feelings in the world, when you are out there by yourself with somebody, who is in extremist and you are waiting
for the emergency relief systems to come in, the managers. You are praying for a helicopter.
MARTIN: You can hear the passion in his voice as he is telling him stay with me.
PINSKY: I have been there. I have been there. And, I keep begging for a helicopter. And, you know, you hear the ambulance in the distance, slowly
coming. No fault to the emergency response team. It is just you are out there first and you can be --
CATHERWOOD: I hope that trooper is single, right? He will be out there.
PINSKY: Mike, what do you got?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: So we know, Pat Robertson has a lot to say when it comes to homosexuality and the bible and everything.
PINSKY: There we go, again.
CATHERWOOD: But, now we are hearing from Tennessee Pastor Ben Bailey. Check this guy out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN BAILEY, TENNESSEE PASTOR: Friend, let us realize the God of this book, the God of the bible. He has a definite standard and it is not the liberal
mindset that we see today. Like it or not, this book is going to be the final judge.
This book does not condone things like women preaching. Look, if I am out to please God, we do not find things like that in the bible. God does not
approve of homosexuality or gay marriage. The scripture says in Romans 1:26 through 28, that that is vial, unnatural. It is an abomination that
under the old testament deserved stoning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Wow!
CATHERWOOD: So, the attorneys reached out to Pastor Bailey. He had this to say. "Do I believe Christians should be stoning homosexuals today? Of
course not. Do I believe homosexuality is a sin? Absolutely.
How should Christians feel about Christians feels about homosexuals? While we abhor the sin. We want to love them and help them. So, that they can
turn from sin and find salvation in Jesus Christ."
[21:55:00] SCHACHER: Was that your preacher?
CATHERWOOD: Well, I guess.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And, is that where we got those comments? OK. Those are his response on us reaching out to him.
SCHACHER: Wow!
PINSKY: Back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: A story at University of Alabama posted a recruitment video that has gone viral for all the wrong reasons. Critic say it is, quote,
"racially homogenous," clear sales pitch for beauty and sexuality. Backlash forced the story to pull the video.
The University of Alabama released the statement saying in part, quote, "The video is not reflective of UA`s expectations." I wanted to talk about
this at length, but we have no time. We will have to maybe rejoin it again tomorrow.
Reminder, we are on SnapChat. You can join us there, DrDrewHLN. DVR us then you can watch us any time. Thanks panel. Thanks audience. Thank you
for watching, and we will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
END
