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White House Concerns Over Possible Biden Run; First Female Soldiers Finish Ranger School; New Video of Clinton, Black Lives Matter Meeting; Manson Murders Still Haunt 46 Years Later. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 18, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:40] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Within the next few weeks we could learn whether Vice President Joe Biden will run for president. If he makes a late jump into the race, he could become a major -- he could become a major competitor for Hillary Clinton. There's just one problem, there doesn't seem to be a lot of support from inside the White House for Joe Biden.

So let's bring in CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. He's in Martha's Vineyard where President Obama is vacationing to tell us more.

Good morning.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Carol -- good morning.

And no doubt Joe Biden is the talk of the Democratic Party right now as he is taking his time deciding whether he will run for president. But as you said, Carol, this tepid support for the Vice President to make a run for the White House does exist inside the White House. A well-placed Democratic source tells CNN even though the White House considers the Vice President to be a beloved figure, there is little enthusiasm for a Biden candidacy in the West Wing.

And so far, you know, we should point out, a movement to draft Joe Biden for president is gaining momentum collecting some 200,000 signatures. We know that. But we're also told that there are concerns inside the White House that a Biden candidacy would just end badly and possibly damage his image as an elder statesman inside the party. One key source told me, quote, "I am not getting any sense of a Joe Biden caucus inside the White House."

Now Carol -- part of the reason for this is that the White House is heavily invested in Hillary Clinton with several former top White House aides now working for the former secretary of state. But it's more than that. Democratic sources inside and outside the White House say Clinton simply remains the party's best hope for protecting and expanding President Obama's legacy.

But no question about it, there is deep affection for the Vice President at the White House. It's not a question whether or not they support Joe Biden. Of course they support Joe Biden. It's whether they support him to run for president. And so it's clear right now officials are giving him time to grieve the death of his son, Beau, and weigh his political future.

And, Carol -- just to underline this, it's often said inside the White House that the President believes picking Biden as his running mate in 2008 was the smartest decision he ever made. But, Carol, it does set up this sort of dilemma for the President should Biden jump into the race to have to choose or even be questioned about what his choice might be between Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. That would seemingly drag on more months and months and months and complicate matters inside the Democratic Party.

Now as for the timing of all of this, you mentioned weeks away. A source familiar with the Vice President's thinking in all this says Biden's decision is expected at the end of the summer and by that we mean late September, not August when people traditionally think of the end of summer and everybody goes back to school.

But sources close to Biden are nearly all indicating at this point, Carol, that this would be a major surprise for the Vice President to get into this race. In the end it may just be a gut call -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta reporting live for us. Thanks so much.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:50] COSTELLO: A historic moment in the U.S. Army and American history. For the first time ever, not one, but two female soldiers will graduate from the Army's Ranger School. It is an intensive training program so grueling only one-third of those who started actually finish and I'm not just talking about push-ups and sit-ups. Take a look at the list from parachute jumps to several obstacle courses, a five-mile run in 40 minutes, 27 days of mock combat patrols. These women have truly proved they can more than hang with the boys.

There are two reasons the Army has open the door to these women. One, to be more inclusive and two to attract more women to the armed services, something increasingly difficult to do.

I talked about that with Major General Allen Batschelet, then in charge of Army recruiting not long ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. ALLEN BATSCHELET, U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND: Out of 150 jobs that are available in the Army, only 14 of them are closed to women today. We're very proud of that, and we're working on opening up those other 14. We're looking at those very closely.

We're doing a couple of studies -- a culture integration study and some gender neutral physical study, a physical demand study on how we might be able to open up those other MOSs or jobs -- MOS is military occupational specialty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And they are supposed to make some sort of decision by January. Despite that though, there is no guarantee the Army will allow these women to serve in this elite capacity.

With me now, Joshua Katz, he's a former Army ranger. Joshua -- thanks so much for coming in.

JOSHUA KATZ, FORMER ARMY RANGER: Thanks for having me -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So first of all, I would just like to get your opinion. These women made it through intensive training. Do they deserve to serve in combat?

KATZ: Well, if they have graduated the course, one would hope that the standards haven't changed, and I don't think that they have, but I think the argument about whether women should be in combat or not actually needed to happen well before we sent women and put women into the elite leadership course that ranger school is.

It's for the infantry, not only for special operations but also just for the infantry at large. And there's a larger policy discussion that has not -- we haven't even begun to have yet.

COSTELLO: You're right. And I can see what you're saying. So why put women through this? Why have them prove themselves when they can only wear the ranger tab but they can't serve in a ranger elite unit on a field of battle?

KATZ: They can't even serve in a regular infantry unit let alone an elite unit, so we really need the Secretary of Defense to make a decision. That decision should have happened before we spend lots of money, training and putting people through this grueling course just because we can.

And these women graduated one of the most challenging courses that I have been through in my professional career, so we can't lessen that. But to say that they are set up for success, especially long- term with their career, we can't say that yet.

COSTELLO: Ok. I have talked to a lot of generals actually about the issue of women in combat. And one of the big concerns they have is privacy. Let's say you're on the battle field and a woman has to take a shower or go to the bathroom. They're really concerned about those things, which I find kind of strange. Because if you're in combat, who cares?

[10:40:07] KATZ: Nobody. Absolutely nobody. So what you want to make sure is that no matter whether you are a man or a woman, that you are tactically and technically proficient. Meaning that you can do everything that everybody to your left and right and your front and your back can do -- right. So you don't want to leave your comrades in jeopardy because you couldn't carry your own weight and more, right?

So in ranger school one of the lessons that they teach young Army infantry leaders is that, is how to lead in those most challenging situations. And there should not be a discussion about where or how you use the bathroom or -- it's absolutely a ludicrous conversation.

We should have the conversation about whether people, people, are tactically and technically proficient and that's the bottom line.

COSTELLO: Let me ask you the final question because there are skeptics out there -- right. So you're in a dangerous situation. You're an elite ranger, right, And you have a woman beside you. Are you overly concerned about that woman? Do you care that she's a woman? Do you feel that she would be at your side just as much as any man?

KATZ: So as a former Army ranger who served in the 75th Ranger regiment, who served in Special Operation Command, we were never worried about whether the young man or the person to my left or my right was tactically or technically proficient because I trained them. I ensured that they met the standards of the ranger regiment and that they were able to do their job to the ranger standard.

And I think that's the point, right, is no matter where we are, no matter what we do going forward, those standards should never change. As long as those standards don't change, it doesn't matter whether you are a man or a woman. But if we're going to change the standards, that completely changes the paradigm and that's actually what I'm really worried about at the end.

COSTELLO: Well, there are skeptics who think the standards have been changed, but everybody -- like the top brass says no way. It's the same.

KATZ: Well, Carol, I graduated ranger school in 61 days. It took these women about 120. So as a ranger who went through the ranger leadership course and having graduated without being recycled or having restarted here, restarting there, I have a different perspective because I think we should be held to that standard. If you cannot make it through ranger school, then you should probably leave and come back when you can.

COSTELLO: I understand.

Joshua -- thank you for stopping by. Appreciate it.

KATZ: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Hillary Clinton confronted by the group Black Lives Matter on the campaign trail. We have the undercover video. It's very interesting. We'll play it for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:47:15] COSTELLO: New video reveals what happened behind closed doors when Hillary Clinton and members of Black Lives Matter met on the campaign trail. The two sides spoke last week in New Hampshire after the group was shut out of a forum on substance abuse.

During the meeting, this private meeting, Clinton encouraged the group, which has interrupted various campaign events, to come together in order to create a concrete plan. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're going to have to come together as a movement and say here is what we want done about it because you can get lip service from as many white people as you can pack into Yankee Stadium and a million more like it who are going to say we get it, we get it, we're going to be nicer, OK? That's not enough at least in my book. That's not how I see how it is.

So the consciousness reason, the advocacy, the passion, the youth of your movement is so critical. But now all I'm suggesting is even for us sinners, find some common ground on agendas that can make a difference right here and now in people's lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So it was a frank conversation, right, but at times it got quite tense. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

CLINTON: Well, if that is --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's the conversation that I push back --

CLINTON: OK, I understand. I understand what you're saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Respectfully --

CLINTON: Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not what I mean. That's not what I mean. That's not what I mean. What I'm saying is --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Clinton went on to say she believes the movement won't necessarily change deep-seated racism, but that it has the potential to change laws.

Joining me now to talk about this, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Paul Begala. Welcome -- Paul PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi -- Carol. And our

group -- you know, I advise a pro-Hillary super PAC, so I love Hillary anyway personally, but I have a professional interest as well in seeing her win.

COSTELLO: Well, thank you. We appreciate your transparency. That is quite important.

But you know, in watching this tape, some of the people that belong to Black Lives Matter didn't like that Hillary Clinton was telling them what to do with their movement. They didn't feel that that was her place. Your reaction to that.

BEGALA: You know, this is politics at its best. It really is. This was real. You know, so often politicians are scripted and scripted by hacks like me. We're really worried, say this just this way because the focus groups say 3 percent more people will like you.

This is the real Hillary. I have known her 25 years. This is the real Hillary. And the fact that both sides were highly respectful but they paid each other the highest compliment which is candor. You're wrong. You're wrong. No, don't tell me what to do. Here is what I think you should do.

[10:50:00] I just love this. This is what it ought to be. This movement is so important. It's so critical. And the fact that they now have direct access to Hillary who is wealthy and powerful and has a pretty good chance of being president, and she treats them with respect. At the same time, they have lived a life that she cannot imagine, and she will never know. And so they are trying so hard to impart their experiences to her. I just think it's great. I love this. I wish it happened every day.

COSTELLO: Tell me what she meant, I don't think we played this part of the video but I listened to it. She said we can't change deep-seated racism so she intimated maybe we shouldn't try. We should just do it through changing laws and policy.

BEGALA: I don't think she was suggesting you shouldn't try. This is a woman, by the way, who was a Goldwater girl until she went and saw Martin Luther King preach. And it changed her entire life. And I think what she's saying -- haven't talked to her about it. I'm not allowed to because of the laws separating super PACs from campaigns, but I know her very well for a long time.

I think what she's saying that evil in our hearts -- all of us have evil in our hearts at some measure -- right. We can't change all of that, but we can change the laws. She's a very practical idealist, right? And so she is asking them, give me a concrete agenda of actions and laws that people can put into place to help change this.

And she's -- I think she's exactly right. There is still racism in America even though we have many good laws now that protect folks. There's still racism in the human heart. So let's try -- it will go down as we continue to make progress -- but let's try to have a concrete agenda to change laws and policies. I just thought both the power of the idealism of these young

activists and then also the power of the pragmatism of Hillary Clinton, that that's -- I mean that's the hope for trying to address these issues.

COSTELLO: Well, of course, you know, Hillary Clinton really needs a big bit of the African-American vote and something that the movement, Black Lives Matter, is most concerned about is this 1994 Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act. It's an act -- it was the largest crime bill in history.

Hillary Clinton helped lobby Congress to pass it and during -- I don't know -- during the years that followed, the prison population doubled. So they're kind of upset about that. They want to know what she thinks about that. Some of them think that this 1994 law was racist. I just wanted your reaction.

BEGALA: One of the folks who voted for that law was John Lewis who to me is a living saint. He is one of the founder of the Civil Rights Movement, one of the founders of SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee which he founded along with the late Julian Bond who we just lost.

So it's difficult for me having worked for President Clinton back then to imagine that there was any racist intent. But there's no doubt, and President Clinton has said this and I know Hillary has, that we have to revisit those mandatory minimum laws. They did not work as intended.

What happened really was the states more than the feds took that up and then started passing more and more. Federal government set the tone. Most of that crime bill was very good. We hired more cops and we put them to work in community policing. That's one of the main reasons crime went down.

The bill was a very good bill but those mandatory minimum sentences have got to be revisited. These activists are right about that. The effect has been racially disproportionate and it has really hurt the black community. It's really important that now we revisit that.

There's -- I worked for President Clinton. There's nobody who can look back on 20 years ago and say everything we did worked out exactly as we intended. The law of unintended consequences always applies and it's really important for these activists to shine a light on things even where like my folks got it wrong and we can then revisit it and try to make it better.

COSTELLO: Paul Begala, thanks so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

BEGALA: Thanks -- Carol, fascinating conversation. Thank you.

COSTELLO: Yes. Thank you so much.

I'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:59] COSTELLO: The murders sent waves of terror and dread rippling across the country. And the nation recoiled even more when Charles Manson emerged as the messiah-like leader of a murderous cult.

With the 46th anniversary of the murders unfolding this month, CNN's Sara Sidner previews tonight's special "THE FACE OF EVIL".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Manson's destructive course through life was fixed from the start.

CHARLES MANSON, CONVICTED MURDERER: I don't have any particular reality.

SIDNER: He spoke to CNN from prison in 1987.

MANSON: I spent the best part of my life in boys schools, prisons, and reform schools because I had nobody.

SIDNER: Manson blamed his mother for his troubled youth. Kathleen Maddox gave birth to Manson in Cincinnati, Ohio, at the age of 16 and went to prison when Charlie was just five years old.

MANSON: She got out of my life early and let me scuffle for myself. And then I became my own mother.

SIDNER: While Manson blamed his mother, author Jeff Guinn blames Manson.

JEFF GUINN, AUTHOR: Charles Manson was born evil. Little Charlie was taken in by loving relatives. The problem was that Charlie himself was a rotten little kid from the word go.

SIDNER: A rotten kid whose crimes escalated as he got older. From stealing cars to armed robbery. From drug dealing to pimping.

He sounds like the ultimate con man.

MARY NICEWANDER, REPORTER: He is. He's got an A in conning people.

SIDNER: Reporter Mary Nicewander has interviewed Charles Manson in prison dozens of times.

NICEWANDER: He always said he's been in prison all his life. Prison is his home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Sara Sidner is here to discuss. I remember reading the book "Helter-Skelter" many, many moons ago and I have been fascinated ever since. SIDNER: It fascinates people. I think part of the reason for

that is Charles Manson himself and the hold that he had on so many people. People are wondering, how was that possible to brainwash adults? I mean some of them were children when they came in but they were adults by the time these murders happened, and so I think people are fascinated with that.

But one thing, that reporter, I had not heard of her before, and so when we went and sat down with her, she has dozens of letters that he wrote to her. She was in prison talking to him throughout the entire trial.

She said one thing about him, she said when you're in a room with Charles Manson, it is like there's no one else. He stares at you, like stares through you and sort of -- it's like no one else exists. She goes that may be one of the reasons why.

COSTELLO: See that's even stunning to me because it doesn't translate on television because when I look at him, I see a disgusting human being.

SIDNER: Right. He doesn't give it to you through the screen, but certainly in person she said he is mesmerizing.

COSTELLO: So there are still people in prison for this, right?

SIDNER: That's right. He's in prison still himself.

COSTELLO: And his members of his cult, right?

SIDNER: Yes.

COSTELLO: And they probably will never get out or be granted parole.

[11:00:02] SIDNER: No. Not if the victims have anything to do with it.

COSTELLO: Sara Sidner -- thanks so much.

The special report, "THE FACE OF EVIL: THE CHARLES MANSON MURDERS" airs tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.

Thanks for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.