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Video of Clinton/Black Lives Matter; Elle Hears Talks Black Lives Matter, Presidential Candidates; 2 Women Complete Grueling Amy Ranger Training; A Look at Charles Manson Murders. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired August 18, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: You heard about this meeting last week but you're going to see what happened when they confronted her behind closed doors. And we'll speak live with one of the leaders of this movement about what she thought of Clinton's response.
Plus, two women are now the first to complete the intense Army Ranger training course and they are set to graduate. Certainly, a historic accomplishment. But what's next for them? Why they might not see the battlefield. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:34:42] CABRERA: We have seen activists with the Black Lives Matter movement disrupt and even take over several presidential campaign events. What we haven't seen the discussion, the dialogue between those activists and the candidates, until now. The group released two videos of part of the conversation with Hillary Clinton and these activities. They were not allowed into her event in New Hampshire but it came afterwards.
Now, in the first part, Clinton tells them that while she disagrees -- that while she agrees, there should be calls for what she calls a reckoning. She suggests activists come together around potential legislation. And then there's a second clip that was released.
I want you to listen to this next exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't tell black people what we need to do and we won't tell you all what you need to do.
HILLARY CLINTON, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm not telling you. I'm telling you to tell me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I mean to say is, this is and has always been a white problem of violence. There's not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.
CLINTON: Well, if that's --
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: I understand. I understand what you're saying. (CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And respectfully --
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: Well, respectfully, if that is your position, I will only talk to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I mean. That's not what I mean. But just what you said was a form of victim blaming. You were saying what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to do to change white hearts --
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: No, I'm talking about --
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: Look, I don't believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate. You're not going to change every heart. You're not. But at the end of the day, we can do a whole lot to change some hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them, to live up to their own God-given potential, to live safely, without fear of violence in their own communities, to have a decent school, to have a decent house, to have a decent future. So we can do it one of many ways. You know, you can keep the movement going, which you have started, and through it, you may actually change some hearts. But if that is all that happens, we'll be back here in 10 years having the same conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Let's bring in Elle Hearns, a strategic partner of the Black Lives Matter movement, joining me now.
You just heard what Hillary Clinton had to say and that interaction, although you weren't in the room. How did she do?
ELLE HEARNS, STRATEGIC PARTNER, BLACK LIVES MATTER: How did she do? I think it was clear how she did. She did exactly what most white people do when they are faced with direct questions from black people around what they can do to better assist with the call to action, the Black Lives Matter action that are taking place right now.
CABRERA: What do you mean what most white people do, how she responded?
HEARNS: She was very defensive. She was very intentionally suggestive of what other people could do as opposed to what she specifically could do. She was challenged to change hearts and minds and she said she doesn't believe in that. And so that is a majority of the time the reaction that we've seen from the progressive movement towards these calls to actions.
CABRERA: I'm not so sure she said she doesn't agree with that but she did kind of qualify it saying there has to be more than that. We need real legislation or some kind of concrete steps that the politicians can take to make a difference when it comes to policy perhaps. And she did send out a statement that tried to clarify her position, saying, "We must not only change hearts but we must do more to say the hard truth in America." Does that help?
HEARNS: I don't think that that helps. I think that what helps is to actually be receptive to what folks are presenting. And so what we're seeing is a lot of folks, Bernie Sanders, multiple campaigns, after the fact. What we actually need support in is actually being receptive of what is happening when you're directly addressing the issues that we've been lifting up consistently around black deaths in this country.
CABRERA: And let's talk about that, in terms of how the -- this has been approached by Black Matters movement when we approach the season. We have seen several instances where many of your supporters are interrupting the campaign events, taking the microphone, storming the stage, shouting out at the candidates. Larry Wilmore, of Comedy Central, had this to say about all of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY WILMORE, COMEDY CENTRAL: I agree that Black Lives Matter but black manners matter as well. Right?
(APPLAUSE)
WILMORE: And if we're keeping it 100 -- if we're keeping it 100 and also keeping it at 100 based on the demographic -- if Bernie Sanders rallies were a Ben & Jerry's ice cream it would be nilla please.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Do you agree? Do black manners matter, also?
HEARNS: I think that there's a level of respectability that has to be challenged. And I think that what happens when Larry Wilmore or others are suggestive of that nature, it actually assists in the process of continuing to take the lives of black people.
[14:40:07] CABRERA: Let me pose the question this way. I think what he's getting at is sort of the way that the movement has interrupted the events. Is yelling out "Black Lives Matter" at an event or yelling at the candidates the best way to get your message heard and to get the response that you get?
HEARNS: Absolutely. I wouldn't be here on this set with you right now if we had not taken the actions that we have taken, right? So I wouldn't have the opportunity to tell you that five black women have been murdered in this country and there's been no outrage or any type of report released from the current White House administration or any of these political candidates that are running for president right now.
(CROSSTALK)
CABRERA: So right now you don't support any one of the candidates?
HEARNS: There's no support for any one of the candidates. Each candidate should expect to be held accountable. That is our political position in this current election cycle.
CABRERA: And finally, in maybe one sentence, what can the candidates do t earn your respect and your trust, and your support?
HEARNS: Absolutely. One of the things that they can do is to expect to be held accountable and to be respected for that accountability. But also --
(CROSSTALK)
CABRERA: What is that accountability?
HEARNS: That responsibility of answering the questions we pose to them without being defensive, without presenting to us what they created to present to us anyway, right? So the responsibility of these presidential candidates is to the people and it's to the people who they are also most disconnected from.
CABRERA: And you don't think the current president, President Obama, has done enough either?
HEARNS: I think we've seen the current president really uplift narratives that were respectable, like Larry Wilmore has suggested, but we haven't seen the president tackle black trans issues, specifically, right? 17 black trans have been murdered in this country, along with women of color, just period, right? And so there's a level of -- there's a level of disconnect that this current administration has.
CABRERA: You still don't feel heard. Well --
(CROSSTALK)
CABRERA: We're glad to have you to be able to share your thoughts.
(CROSSTALK)
HEARNS: They also haven't declared that Black Lives Matter either. So that's something that the current administration could also do. We haven't seen that yet.
CABRERA: I think we've heard --
(CROSSTALK) HEARNS: -- as a white person, so you would say that.
CABRERA: Glad to have you on.
HEARNS: Thank you so much.
CABRERA: Thank you for being here. I'm glad we offered an opportunity to get the message out.
HEARNS: Absolutely.
The Black Lives movement has gained momentum in Ferguson. That was just over a year ago. And now, as Ferguson struggles to rebuild after the unrest in the past year. You can help to help that community. Go to CNN.com/impactyourworld for ways to help.
Still ahead, any moment now, Hillary Clinton is getting ready to speak live in Las Vegas, her first public comment since the latest developments involving her e-mail server while secretary of state. Over 300 e-mails are being further analyzed. I'll bring you Hillary Clinton live, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:47:18] CABRERA: Military history is about to be made. Two women are about to graduate from the Army's exhausting, grueling elite Ranger school. 19 women participated in the force's combat leadership course that teaches students how to overcome fatigue, hunger and stress during difficult combat operations and for 62 days, these ladies trained with minimal food, little sleep in the woods, mountains, swamp lands and we can't even begin to list the exercises that they endured. Commencement is Friday for the two women who made it through.
Joining me now is Gayle Tzemach Lemmon, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. She's also written "Ashley's War," a book about women soldiers on the Special Ops battlefield.
Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it, Gayle.
GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS & AUTHOR: It is a real test of strength and agility. It's a 62-day course. But these women have been in it for more than 100 days and they have not given up. And they have come out better and stronger and tougher and smarter for it and also a lot hungrier and tired from when they began.
CABRERA: 94 men made it all the way through. So these women really were keeping up with the men. What is the most challenging part of all of this? We're looking at pictures of the pushups and sit-ups and they had to do parachute drops and get through helicopter attacks and so forth.
LEMMON: That's true. 3 percent of the entire Army has a Ranger tab. This is something that is a real test and I think a lot of people wanted to show that they could do the 100 days or 62 days of tests. I think the hardest part is actually the mountain phase. A lot of students who have gone through it would say the biggest issue is endurance. Because by day 62, if you go straight through, which only two-thirds of Army Ranger School candidates do, you are hungry, tired, losing weight and you've got 2200 calories a day and then you go to Florida, the swamp phase, as we were just visiting, the last phase, and it is hot down there and it's really exhausting and then you know you're at that physical level where you've been depleted from the other two phases.
CABRERA: You really push the limits on all fronts. The question is, what is in store for the next?
And I want to play what GOP presidential candidate, Jeb Bush, had to say. He had an opinion about this today while speaking at the national security conference in South Carolina. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what happens now? Should women go to combat?
[14:50:18] JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Absolutely. If they are Rangers, they are clearly qualified. These decisions are made by the military, not by the political side of Washington, D.C., but if you're Ranger ready, you're combat ready.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh.
BUSH: And that's the extraordinary feet for these two women and something that they should be proud of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: And it was a little echoey. He said, if you're Ranger ready, you're combat ready. What's your reaction?
LEMMON: The Army from the very start said there must be the same standards. Every woman I talk to who is considering the Rangers have said we want no special treatment, we want no special anything, we only want to have an opportunity to meet the standard. And in a lot of ways, it's really battlefield reality catching up with American and sort of regulation. Even if the combat was in place, "Ashley's War" was about a team of women recruited, trained and deployed to go on night raids alongside Rangers and SEALs in 2011. So this is, in many ways, the next step in opening combat roles to women. And I think the key piece is it was transparent and if the standards were held the same, which is what everybody wanted from the beginning.
CABRERA: Why do you think it is any more dangerous for a woman on the front lines than men? Are they more vulnerable perhaps than others?
LEMMON: More than 150 women have died in combat in this decade of war. "Ashley's War" was about women who were fast roping with SEALs. Women were on night raids with Rangers. We are just catching up. January, 2013 is when Secretary Panetta opened up all these roles, and they gave the services three years to get used to the idea of how to integrate women and in a way that make sense for each. It's not entirely top down. What you see now is each phase leading to the next. And the fact that those two women met the Rangers standard is what everybody is going to hang on to. That means no special exceptions were given but the chance to serve a purpose also.
CABRERA: More power to those brave women.
Gayle Tzemach Lemmon, thanks so much for joining me.
LEMMON: Thank you.
CABRERA: Up next, how did Charles Manson convince his followers to commit the gruesome murders? A preview of CNN's special report coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:57:05] CABRERA: Charles Manson, the mastermind behind seven murders, continues to fascinate people 46 years afterwards. In a new CNN special report that airs tonight, Sara Sidner looks back at Manson from those early years.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Manson's destructive course through life was fixed from the start.
CHARLES MANSON, MURDER MASTERMIND: I don't have a particular reality.
SIDNER: He spoke to CNN from prison in 1987.
MANSON: I spent the best part of my life in prisons and reform schools and boy schools because I had nobody.
SIDNER: Manson blamed his mother for his troubled youth. Kathleen Maddox gave birth to Manson in Cincinnati, Ohio, at the age of 16, and went to prison when Charlie was just 5 years old.
MANSON: She got out of my life early and let me scuffle for myself. And then I became my own mother.
SIDNER: While Manson blamed his mother, author, Jeff Wynn, blames Manson.
JEFF WYNN, AUTHOR: Charles Manson was born evil. Little Charlie was taken in by loving relatives. The problem was Charlie himself was a rotten kid from the word go.
SIDNER: A rotten kid whose crimes escalated as he got older, from stealing cars to armed robbery, from drug dealing to pimping.
(on camera): He sounds like the ultimate con man.
MARY NICENJER (ph), REPORTER: He is. He's got an "A" in conning people.
SIDNER: Reporter Mary Nicenjer (ph) has interviewed Charles Manson in prison dozens of times.
NICENJER (ph): He always said he's been in prison all his life. Prison is his home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: So interesting.
Sara Sidner, thank you for joining me now.
What did you find out about Charles Manson and what happened that maybe we haven't heard?
SIDNER: There were a couple of things. One that really struck me and that is what the father of Tate had to do after she was stabbed. She's eight months pregnant, begs for the life of her baby and they give her no mercy. The father had to -- because unlike today's world, things were very different back then -- had to go into the home several weeks after the murder and clean up his daughter's blood. And that, to me, struck me in such a way. It sent chills down my back. I could feel the father's pain, and he has since died, but it's a horrible, horrible detail that I had never heard before --
CABRERA: Right.
SIDNER: -- from a friend of the family, who talked about how it literally brought him to his knees in grief.
CABRERA: The details inside this special report.
Sara Sidner, thank you so much. We look forward to it.
Tonight, you can watch the special report "Face of Evil, The Charles Manson Murders," airing tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern, right here on CNN.
Top of the hour. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being here.
