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Poll: Trump Leading GOP On All Issues; Clinton Fights Back, Defends Use Of Private Email Server. Aired 7-8:00p ET

Aired August 18, 2015 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:10] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, Donald Trump soaring in the latest CNN poll but given his sometimes sexist comments, why is Trump winning the hearts and minds of so many women voters, too?

Plus, breaking news, Hillary Clinton speaking out tonight vigorously defending the use of her private e-mail account and taking on Donald Trump. And a hostage dies in a hail of gunfire struck ten times by police bullets. Why was no one held accountable?

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Jim Sciutto in again tonight for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, Trump winning over women. Donald Trump, the runaway leader in CNN's new poll of republican voters even among female voters and while many of the GOP presidential candidates fanned across the U.S. today with campaign events and speeches aimed at winning over voters, they have a big challenger ahead. Those voters are increasingly focused on the one candidate who did not hit the trail today and that is Donald Trump. In a new CNN poll out this morning, Trump widening his lead among republican voters, holding now a double digit lead over Jeb Bush with Ben Carson, Marco Rubio and Scott Walker in single digits and despite a string of offensive, sometimes vulgar comments about women, including most recently his blood remarks regarding FOX anchor Megyn Kelly, a new CNN poll finds that 60 percent of republican women voters have a favorable view of Donald Trump.

Athena Jones is OUTFRONT tonight. Athena, Trump really dominating the republican field now very clear from this poll. How are the other candidates responding today?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the other candidates aren't happy that Trump is getting all the attention. They are constantly asked to respond to him but Jim he's been driving the conversation all summer. He's been rising steadily in the polls and right now he seems unstoppable.


JONES (voice-over): Drawing crowds wherever he goes. Donald Trump is dominating the republican field nationwide.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to New Hampshire, going to Iowa, going to South Carolina, going to Tennessee. We're going all over.

JONES: And growing his lead. In the new CNN ORC poll, the billionaire businessman earns the support of nearly a quarter of GOP voters. Up six points since July nearly double the support of his nearest rival Jeb Bush and three times the support of Scott Walker. Two governors who were close behind him just a month ago. Trump's favorability is also on the rise. Fifty eight percent of Republicans now have a favorable view of him. Even after controversial comments about FOX anchor Megyn Kelly.

TRUMP: You know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

JONES: And former prisoner of war, John McCain.

TRUMP: He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. Okay? I hate to tell you.

JONES: The tough talking Trump catch the field on every issue. But Republicans trusting him most to deal with the economy, social issues, ISIS and illegal immigration. In fact, he's setting the agenda and driving the conversation on illegal immigration.

TRUMP: We have to make a whole new set of standards.

JONES: He is calling for, among other things, deporting all of the undocumented. An idea some of his opponents blasted as unworkable.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not doable and secondly, I don't think it's right. I don't think it's humane.

JONES: But on Trump's proposal to end birthright citizenship, a right enshrined in the 14th amendment to the constitution, there seems to be at least some agreement.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't mind changing that law. I think it's a bad practice to give citizenship based on birth.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm open to doing things that prevent people who deliberately come to the U.S. for purposes of taking advantage of the 14th amendment but I'm not in favor of repealing it.

JONES: Agreement from some but not from everyone.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To suggest that people born in this country are not United States citizens and they don't have this in the constitution, I just reject out of hand.


JONES: Now, while Trump is sucking up a lot of the oxygen in this waste, one of the candidates you just saw says it won't last. Lindsey Graham compared Trump to "The Wizard of Oz" saying his appeal will diminish the more people learn about his policies and realize there is nothing behind the curtain. Of course, we'll be watching to see if that happens -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Thank you very much to Athena Jones in Washington.

Of course one of the biggest surprises in this new CNN poll is that the number one choice among women voters is Donald Trump, a surprise after a series of comments that many found frankly offensive to women.


TRUMP: She wanted to breast pump in front of me, and I may have said that's disgusting.

She's a vicious, horrible person.

You can see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

You take a look at her, she's a slob.

It must be a pretty picture, you dropping in your knees.


[19:05:19] TRUMP: Tom Foreman OUTFRONT tonight. So Tom, I mean, you listen to those comments and yet, women voters in our polls still standing by Donald Trump.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, Jim, if you look at the horse race who is simply most likely to get the vote of republican women, Trump is leading with 20 percent of registered republican woman saying they would back him. Jeb Bush is second at 17 percent in the candidate running third, by this metric is Ben Carson. For this particular group of voters. And what's driving this for Trump is the issues interestingly enough. Female voters who are republican just think that he can do the job better than the other candidates.

And in that sense, they are in line with Republicans overall who you see feel the same way on the economy, 40 percent of registered republican women say that he's the guy to handle it. Illegal immigration, 41 percent of those women trust him. ISIS, 31 percent say he can take on the terrorist. Trump loses a little ground down here on social issues. Generally they find that Bush is a bit more to their liking in that category but it's not enough to tip the scale substantially -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: And those are the key issues that voters consistently say ISIS, the economy. Certainly a lot of good news for Trump in these numbers but there is one major stumbling block.

FOREMAN: Yes. It is a huge one. This is a very, very big thing to bear in mind. Take a look at this, it's the big catch of all of this. When you ask all these Republicans out there for all of the fire and furry for Donald Trump, for all of their excitement, you say who can take on the Democrats? Fifty eight percent say their chance of winning the White House will be better with someone other than Trump. And we don't know how that's going to play out in the coming months, but this is not a number that the Trump people want to see -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Tom Foreman, thanks very much in Washington.

OUTFRONT tonight, we have conservative commentator Kayleigh McEnamy and as well as former RNC Communications Director Doug Heye. Thanks to both of you for coming on tonight.


SCIUTTO: Kaley, I would like to start with you.


SCIUTTO: You just heard Donald Trump calling certain women slobs and pigs. You're familiar with the comments directed at Megyn Kelly and others. How is he still doing so well among female republican voters?

MCENANY: Sure, you know, those comments are unacceptable but I'd like to point out he's made same comments with reference to males as well as females. I don't think it's a gender specific thing. However --

SCIUTTO: Is it equal opportunity offenders is what you're saying?

MCENANY: He is. However, women like that Donald Trump treats them like everyday voters. Donald Trump doesn't treat women like a monolithic voting block that only cares about access to contraception and abortion funding. He treats women like they care about the economy which is the number one issue for women. Fifty six million women out of work last month, that's a record number. Women care about jobs, they don't care about access to abortion funding which is why they've embrace Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: Doug, many people thought these controversies with Trump on women would hurt him. I mean, you look at the candidate like Jeb Bush, he made the comments about funding Planned Parenthood, that was a many controversy for a couple days but you have all these comments from Trump and the disappearance almost like he's the new Teflon candidate, how do you explain it?

HEYE: Well, he attacks two things that are very unpopular. One, Washington politicians whether there were Republicans or Democrats. Unfortunately most of the Republicans these days. Two, journalists, not very popular with the American public or especially republican primary voters right now. And as long as he's able to keep the conversation on those two things, however he does it, he does really well and what we've seen in the past few days certainly on the "Meet the Press" interview this weekend is when you asked him about specifics on issues that voters care about national security, being a good example, the devil is really in the details for Donald Trump. He doesn't have specific answers to specific questions and that lack of knowledge, that lack of specificity is ultimately going to be the soft under belly for his campaign.

SCIUTTO: He certainly found a way to feed into that dissatisfaction, that distrust of whether it's the media as you mentioned but Washington, you name it. Kaley, there is that number there that is worrisome, has to be for his campaign. That is 58 percent of Republicans say the party would have a chance of actually winning in 2016 without Trump on the ballot versus 38 percent and in fact that Republicans are wasting their vote on him if they don't think he can win a general election. Is that the message to get from those numbers?

MCENANY: No. You know, I think Donald Trump has six months with which to articulate policy and I agree he has to put forward policy specific answers. If he doesn't have those nuance answers, he's going to ultimately fall in the polls. With that being said, I'd like to point out buried within the CNN poll is the fact that 36 percent nationwide view Donald Trump favorably. That may seem like a small number but that's only five percent less than Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump is only five percent less favorable than Hillary Clinton. So, I think ultimately in a race against Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump would win if he can put forward those policy specifics, some of which we saw on "Meet the Press" this weekend.

SCIUTTO: It's a great point Kaley and we saw Jeb Bush for instance, his favorability ratings coming down in that poll. Certainly a worry for that campaign. Doug, I want to ask you though. A lot of attention this week on Trump's answer when he was asked where he gets his military advice. Here is what he had to say.


[19:10:29] TRUMP: Well, I watch your shows. I mean, I really see a lot of great, you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows and you have the generals and you have certain people --

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS, "MEET THE PRESS": But is there somebody that's a go-to for you, you know?

TRUMP: Probably there are two or three.

TODD: Yes.

TRUMP: Probably there are two or three.


SCIUTTO: Pretty remarkable answer when he is at the same time steaking out very aggressive positions in the fight against ISIS putting 25,000 U.S. troops into harm's way for instance. You know, yet, still, our CNN poll found the republican voters overwhelmingly choose Trump as the best candidate to handle ISIS. How is that message resonating with people?

HEYE: Well, it's resonating because we often don't hear the steps that he gets his advice by watching TV, that he can't name the chairman of the joint chief of staff, General Martin Dempsey by the way. That he doesn't really care about whether or not Ukraine joins NATO. These are important things. They may not be drivers for republican primary voters right now. But they show that not only does the -- right now, he doesn't have any answers. But one thing we should keep in mind. At this point in 2008, the people who are leading which would be in 2007, if we're at that point in the campaign, people leading in the polls at that point were Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson. The eventual nominee John McCain was about seven percent. So, it's one thing we should keep in mind that these polls aren't always predictive for what may happen in Iowa and New Hampshire.

SCIUTTO: It's a fair point, and in Doug in 2011 it was Rick Perry who is leading in similar polls just before around the same time four years ago.

HEYE: Yes. Absolutely. That's why, look, Donald Trump is getting all the attention in the world. He's not getting a lot of scrutiny. As reporters drill down, and we saw this with Dana Bash asking him at the border a few weeks ago specific questions on how are you going to do this? How are you going to pay for it? The more he's asked about specifics, the harder of a time that he has.

SCIUTTO: Doug Heye, Kaley McEnany, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I want to note to our viewers tomorrow, Chris Cuomo is going to sit down with Donald Trump. You can see that entire interview tomorrow night at 9 Easter Time right here on CNN.

And OUTFRONT next, breaking news, Hillary Clinton firing back tonight against her critics defending the use of her private e-mail server and calling out Donald Trump and his hair. But are voters listening to her?

Also, Jeb Bush falling even further behind Trump in our new poll, double digits. Can he recover? And their parents are battling the presidential trail but Ivanka Trump and Chelsea Clinton are steadfast pals. How is that possible?


[19:16:13] SCIUTTO: And breaking news, just a short time ago, Hillary Clinton staunchly defending her time at the State Department. The democratic frontrunner just wrapping up a speech again insisting she has nothing to hide regarding the private e-mail server she used during her time as secretary of state.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, in retrospect what was supposed to be convenient has turned out to be anything but convenient.


SCIUTTO: So, why can't she put this controversy to rest? Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.


CLINTON: I regret that this has become such a cause celebre. But that does not change the facts.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight in Nevada, Hillary Clinton on defense.

CLINTON: I know there is a certain level of, you know, sort of anxiety or interest in this, but the facts are the facts.

ZELENY: She is struggling to fend off a campaign controversy fall out from her decision to use a private e-mail server as secretary of state.

CLINTON: You may have seen that I recently launched a Snapchat account.


Those messages disappear all by themselves.


ZELENY: As Republicans call her out for laughing, the Clinton campaign is reverting to a familiar playbook diminishing the issue as an old partisan fight.

CLINTON: It's not anything people that talk to me about as I travel around the country. It is never raised in my town halls, it is never raised in my other meetings with people.

ZELENY: But in Nevada today a few voters waiting to see her said they wanted an explanation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is one of the reasons why I'm here. I would like the record to be set straight and I would like to know what, you know, she has say about everything.

PAMELA GRIMM, ATTENDING CLINTON EVENT: It's sad to me that she ended up in this situation because she's such a woman with integrity.

ZELENY: All this as Hillary Clinton came face-to-face with protesters from the Black Lives Matter movement captured on camera in video released today.

CLINTON: Respectfully if that is your position that I'll only talk to white people about how we're going to deal with a very real problem.

ZELENY: A passionate movement for a new movement confronting presidential candidates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to do to change white hearts. CLINTON: Look, I don't believe you change hearts. I believe you

change laws, you change allocation and resources, you change the way systems operate.

ZELENY: Bernie Sanders surrendering the stage in Seattle. Martin O'Malley heckled in Phoenix.

A movement drawing attention to African-Americans dying often at the hands of police and high incarceration rates. It's not front and center in the presidential campaign.

CLINTON: And that black lives matter!



ZELENY: Now running for president is all about navigating obstacles whether it's black lives matter activists or if it's answering questions for yet another day about the controversy over that private e-mail server that she decided to use as secretary of state. And on that score, Jim, Hillary Clinton was defiant tonight in Nevada saying, I know there is a certain level of anxiety or interest in this but the facts are the facts -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question having trouble answering some of those hard questions. Jeff Zeleny in Washington.

OUTFRONT tonight now, democrat Hilary Rosen and republican Tara Setmayer. Hilary, if I could begin with you. We just saw a Clinton again facing tough questions about that e-mail server. You watch her body language, you listen to her. She clearly wasn't happy about it. Take a listen.


CLINTON: I'm, you know, I have no idea. That's why we turned it over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you were in charge of it. Did you wipe the server?

CLINTON: What, like with a cloth or something? Well, no.


SCIUTTO: Arguably a bit of an awkward joke there. Are you concerned that this is going to dog her campaign all the way through at a minimum in which he's already force her not to talk about the issues that she wants to define her?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't think that they do dominate the town halls. I think that she gets a question a day and she responds to it and that's the thing that we play and that other people focus on. Look, as she said the facts are the facts and there are a couple ways that this is going to go, right? They, you know, the government is looking into this and then there are going to be the partisan Congressional hearings about this. She will get there and answer every questions they have. But she's dammed if she does or doesn't. What happened happened? She said it was a mistake. She's repeated that it was a mistake and now all she can do is simply say look, you know, I made a mistake and I didn't send classified e-mails or e-mails that I thought were classified at the time if people reclassified them later, that's really not my fault. So, I don't really know what people expect her to do at this point.

SCIUTTO: So, to be fair, the answers have come somewhat piecemeal over time. You know, what voters say and it's just not the press who ask these questions. You heard one in the piece, they're saying, they want a final clear answer as to why she use that server and why not just give that answer in one go?

[19:21:20] ROSEN: She has, and, you know, you cover the State Department regularly. She said it multiple times, she did it for convenience, she was trying to, you know, just carry a single device. Whether people believe that or not is beyond, you know, her control. But here is the thing that I think we'll going to get to very quickly which is, you know, elections are about choices. They are not about any one question about any one candidate. And so, we can talk about Hillary Clinton's e-mails for the next six months but at some point, voters are going to have to go into a booth and choose between Hillary Clinton and someone else, Democrats are going to choose between her and Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley and who knows? Maybe Jill Biden.

And then in a general, they will going to have to choose between -- I think it's going to be Hillary Clinton and the republican nominee. Everybody has got an issue. Nobody, there is no such thing as a politician without an issue. What matters is, can she convince people that she's the best person to solve the problems to address the problems that they are going to have in the future.

SCIUTTO: Tara, I want to give you a chance to answer because a fair question is that, will voters really care about this issue in light of the fact that, you know, they will consistently put economy at the top for sure.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, but it's clear they already do. Her trustworthiness in polls is awful. People do not trust her. They do not think she's honest and trustworthy and guess what else? She's not very likable. I mean, we just watched these clips of Hillary Clinton in these circumstances and she did not come across as being in control. She was very snarky and aservic (ph). She was clearly defensive, which she has been the whole time and she's so arrogant to think that she's above the law. Plus, she's running around cracking jokes which are really ill advised. Because there is nothing funny about this. She cracked a joke about Snapchat, oh, these emails, they defeat themselves. Ha-ha-ha. Today, oh, would you mean, wipe the server, clean with a cloth. That is not going to fly. I mean, that is not funny. It's not funny to General Petraeus who got in trouble from his handling classified information.

SCIUTTO: (INAUDIBLE) SETMAYER: It's not funny. That's right. It's not funny and he

pleaded guilty to it. It's not funny to marine reservist Jason Brezler either who was a marine, who sent classified material to warn in Afghanistan of a potential attack against marines who lost three. He's possibly facing a dishonorable discharge --

SCIUTTO: To be fair to the case.

SETMAYER: This is not funny.

SCIUTTO: No one accusing of Hillary Clinton of sending the classified e-mail. The question was --

SETMAYER: Mishandling. But it's the mishandling of classified information which is, we can get into the specifics of the law. But anybody --

ROSEN: You're just rattling on the --

SETMAYER: But anybody --


SETMAYER: -- way more harshly than Hillary Clinton has and for her to make jokes about this and think she's above the law knowing that this is some kind of right-wing conspiracy, that's not going to fly anymore. People are sick and tired of her making excuses.

SCIUTTO: Hilary, I do want you to answer that question though because this is feeding into the trustworthy ratings of voters. Sixty percent saying, people who don't believe she's honest and trustworthy. You say that he's given answers but the fact is, reflected those numbers, those answers are not been satisfying to many primary voters yet.

ROSEN: Well, I don't think it's true. I think that she's leading every primary voter, so we're not, that's not the issue. The issue is she is complying with the law. She's doing everything the law said. And she's, you know, if you can get the same question 20 hours a day, you're going to make a joke about it occasionally. She has taken this seriously. She will take it seriously when she's before a committee answering questions. Her team has cooperated with everything. So, you know, Republicans at nauseam going through this, you know --

SETMAYER: No, the Justice Department, the FBI, the inspector general of the Intel community --

ROSEN: Yes. And she's taking that seriously, Tara --

SETMAYER: Forced her to give the server up. She's been obfuscating from months on this. And it's very similar as to her husband 17 years ago --

ROSEN: There never was a --

SETMAYER: -- who said he never had sex with that woman and --

ROSEN: Really? You're going to go there? I'm not going to talk anymore. Go ahead, babe.


SETMAYER: Well, guess what? Maybe she will. Well, it's the truth, I'm sorry if you don't like it.

ROSEN: If that's what you think the voters want to talk about, then --

SETMAYER: No, but Hillary Clinton not answering the questions and obfuscating for months is what caused this drip, drip, drip and Democrats on your side acknowledge she's handling this terribly.

ROSEN: The government has everything they need. They are looking at this.

SETMAYER: Now, he says, by court order.

SCIUTTO: Tara and Hilary, this is certainly not the last time we're going to talk about this. I do appreciate you both speaking honestly and directly here. Thank you for your time.

OUTFRONT next, Jeb Bush falling 11 points behind Donald Trump in the polls while his unfavorable numbers are on the rise. What's happened to the onetime republican frontrunner?

And a massive police chase, more than 600 rounds fired. They caught the bank robbers but they killed a female hostage. Why weren't no charges ever brought, no one even disciplined?


[19:30:06] SCIUTTO: Tonight, Jeb Bush, once the presumptive GOP front runner, sinking to new lows in the polls. According to our new CNN poll, only 13 percent of Republican voters are back the former Florida governor. That's down 4 percent points from June.

So, why is the son of one president the brother of another failing to excite his party?

OUTFRONT is David Chalian, he's CNN's political director.

So, David, what happened to Jeb Bush in the last couple of months?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, listen, we shouldn't write him off completely, Jim, but what has happened is that I think the reality of Jeb Bush's relationship with the base of the Republican Party is now playing out.

We knew that when Bush got into the race, that he was in different place than the base on immigration. A different place than the base on Common Core, and what he had to present was this notion of being the big adult in the race that can raise all the money, that has the presidential name and can sort of quash all the competition out of the gate. That didn't happen.

So, if Jeb Bush is not out of the gate looking like the winner and the inevitable nominee, he immediately now is in that dog fight for the next many months now because he wasn't able to sort of clean up the competition early on.

SCIUTTO: He's not exciting the base but he's exciting donors. He's got more than $100 million.

And as you look ahead, can he recover from the drop in support?

CHALIAN: Oh, without a doubt. Listen, that money is going to put to work real fast. His super PAC is going up with ads in September, in the early state, to start combating these lower poll numbers that we're seeing. He had kind of a lackluster debate performance in the first debate. That with the Trump rise has sort of had had him in this flattening out or decline.

I will note, though, that in our poll, Jim, one of the big trouble signs for Jeb Bush, as well, is his unfavorables among Republicans are on the rise. He's gone from 34 percent unfavorable in the last poll in july to now 42 percent unfavorable in this poll and that is just something he needs to watch carefully because if his own partisans are having a negative impression of him, it's going to take a lot of that war chest to combat against that.

SCIUTTO: All right. David Chalian, thanks very much, as always.


SCIUTTO: OUTFRONT now, S.E. Cupp, and former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. He was also, of course, Republican presidential candidate in 2012. Governor, as you heard Jeb Bush is losing support, according to CNN's latest polls. It's down to just 13 percent. And key, as David mentioned there, up to 42 percent from 34 percent.

What does he have to do to turn this around?

TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: Well, a couple of things. One is Donald Trump is going to have to deflate and that's a big if. And one of the other hybrid candidates that can both appeal to the establishment and conservatives are going to have to not catch fire. But Jeb's built a campaign to go the distance or at least go a long period of time. So, he's going to have to find another gear and get more appealing to more conservatives if he's going to win this nomination.

SCIUTTO: OK, S.E., so Jeb Bush telling reporters in that vein at the Iowa state fair that the primary is in his word as long haul and crucially that he has the money to stay in the race, $120 million. That's more than double his closest competitor Ted Cruz. But Trump, of course, has more than both of them combined. He says he's willing to spend it.

Here's what he had to say.


REPORTER: Mr. Trump, would you spend $1 billion on the election?


REPORTER: A billion.

TRUMP: I would do that, yes, if I had to. I make $400 million a year. So, what difference does it make?


SCIUTTO: Now, whether or not he follows through on spending a billion bucks, when it comes purely to money, S.E., can anyone other than Bush come close to competing with him?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, it's not just money. I mean, the money is important, but it's the infrastructure. It's the fact the party generally anoints the next guy a couple years ahead of time. And almost regardless of what's happening within the race, they stick.

You watch that happen with Romney even though you can argue, great guy may have been a great president, maybe not the right candidate for that time. He maintained through the infrastructure, the resources, parties, donors, they followed him, and he was the last man standing even though he had not a lot of support in the beginning of the primary.

And Jeb Bush is sort of the establishment guy and I think you're going to follow the money, the donors, the resources, the infrastructure, all the way through, too.

So, if I'm him, I'm just telling myself, Romney, Romney, Romney, just remember Romney and just see it through.

SCIUTTO: Well, Governor, though, he may be the establishment candidate but one thing Trump has done is tapped into the anti- establishment anger, which is clearly benefitting him. But on the flip side, there is another side of the coin because 50 percent -- 58 percent of voters in the poll say that the Republican Party would be weaker actually in a general election with him as the candidate.

Is that the real inside track for Jeb Bush to exploit?

PAWLENTY: Well, nomination endorsement battles oftentimes come down to two primaries.

[19:35:00] One is philosophical purity through the eyes or the lens of the activists, and the people go out and vote in caucuses and primaries. And the other is electability. They factor in both and there is going to come a point in time where people reach a fork in the road and say I might like some of what Donald Trump is saying but is he really electable? And Trump has probably go another six or eight months to show

people he can be more than just entertaining, that he could actually be president. If that happens, Republicans may have to start warming up to the idea that Donald Trump isn't going away and may not implode.

SCIUTTO: And, S.E., to be fair, when you look at these numbers. Bush, he's got lot of work to do on the issue. Bush trailing Trump in every key category. Just 8 percent think he's the best to handle economy, that's down from 20 percent in June. He's actually losing ground there. On immigration, just 12 percent, down from 21. On ISIS, 16 percent, social issues, 14 percent.

CUPP: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean, what are the issues that will allow him not only to motivate Republicans but to turn this around in terms of competency on these key issues?

CUPP: Yes, he's always going to have a tough time with immigration. He's always going to have a tough time with education. We thought he would have a better time when it came to terrorism. Obviously, he had a little difficulty with that as well. So, he's got to steak out his ground on jobs and the economy, growing the economy, solving for income inequality, solving for poverty. Ideas like that.

I would give him this advice. Christie's best line, his best moment on the stump is when he says "I want to win", and that's the kind of fire that I think we need to see from Jeb Bush, not that just he wants to win personally but that he wants a Republican to win.

And so, we need Jeb or we need someone like Jeb because electability is important. We can't just stand on our ideological pedestals, or be entertained by the loudest guy in the room and expects to win in a general election. That's just not how it works.

SCIUTTO: S.E. Cupp, Governor Pawlenty, appreciate you both taking the time tonight.

CUPP: Thanks.

PAWLENTY: Thank you.



SCIUTTO: During this gun battle, a female hostage was killed hit by ten bullets fired by police. Tonight, a new report calls the police response, quote, "excessive and unnecessary".

And they were both raised by incredibly successful parents in the national spotlight, ahead our special report on Ivanka Trump and Chelsea Clinton's unique friendship.


[19:41:16] SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Tonight, a damming report in a major lawsuit against a California police department. A woman taken hostage by bank robbers shot dead by responding police officers. By the time it was over, they had fired more than 600 shots. A police watchdog review called the officer's actions excessive and unnecessary, and woman's family is now suing the police department.

Our Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT with more.


KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A first in the history of U.S. law enforcement.

OFFICER: We are taking fire. We are taking fire.

LAH: A rolling shootout with hostages with automatic weapons, scores of police cars hit as gunman indiscriminately fire an AK-47 from an SUV speeding through the streets of Stockton, California.

The three heavily armed gunmen had just robbed this bank, taking three innocent women hostage. One of them, Missy Holt-Singh, withdrew money for a hair appointment from the ATM, her 12-year-old daughter watching nearby as the gunman uses her mother as a human shield.

For 62 minutes, police car after police car pursue the SUV reaching speeds of 120 miles per hour. One hostage thrown out of the SUV, another jumps for her life. But Holt-Singh is still inside with the three gunmen.

There are so many bullets from the SUV, 14 police cars are disabled including an armored swat vehicle the gunman refusing to surrender. Officers so terrified they text loved ones while in pursuit, fearing they won't survive.

Then comes this final moment.


LAH: The gunfire goes on and on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was about 300 gunshots.

LAH: It was actually much more. Now more than a year later, this independent investigation by the Washington-based police foundation found more than 600 shots were fired. The hostage Missy Holt-Singh was struck ten times by police bullets, killing her instantly. The report said a chaotic scene with little control and just police officers trying to stop a threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The report did identify a need for more training and response plans for heavily armed hostage situations which we will review.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is a classic case of contagious fire. LAH: Meaning one cop fires and others control suit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to control the situation, don't let the situation control you. You've got to be tactically aware. When rounds are being fired at you, you want to distance yourself from that. You want to get proper resources to the problem.

LAH (on camera): And that didn't happen in this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of this happened. Not in this case.


LAH: Now, the report also points out that the city of Stockton did file for bankruptcy as a result. There were cut backs in the police department. Some 100 police officers who are considered left. They were replaced by rookies. Also cut back, police training, as well as equipment.

One suspect Jim did survive the shootout. That suspect using his hostage a human shield, he'll be tried on murder charges in January.

SCIUTTO: Just a riveting story, incredible to see play out. Kyung Lah, from Los Angeles.

And OUTFRONT next, their parents trading barbs. But Ivanka Trump and Chelsea Clinton trading compliments. Next, an inside look at this surprisingly close bipartisan friendship.

And Josh Groban turning Donald Trump's biting tweets into sweet music.


[19:48:52] SCIUTTO: Just moments ago, Hillary Clinton took a shot at the GOP in general, and Donald Trump in particular on the campaign trail.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We heard out of touch, out of date policies and over the top rhetoric. And it's not just the front runner. The others are saying the same things without the pizzazz or the hair, but it's the same message.


SCIUTTO: Without the pizzazz or the hair.

But for the next generation of Trumps and Clintons, things are markedly different. Their daughters, Ivanka Trump and Chelsea Clinton, are actually good friends.

Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TRUMP: That's pretty pathetic that Hillary Clinton just blamed

me for the horrendous attack that took place in South Carolina.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As their parents fling insults at each other on the campaign trail.

CLINTON: I have just one word for Mr. Trump -- basta, enough.

SERFATY: Ivanka Trump and Chelsea Clinton's long-standing friendship will be put to the test. It's a test their parents have failed.

[19:50:00] After once being close friends themselves, Hillary Clinton attending Donald Trump's wedding, Trump making donations in the past to the Clintons and their foundation, they are now rivals, not holding anything back.

CLINTON: I think the guy went way overboard, offensive, outrageous, pick your adjective.

TRUMP: She's the worst secretary of state in the history of our country.

SERFATY: But Ivanka and Chelsea have a private relationship, one that has grown more intimate over the years. The two women both in their 30s, new moms and living in Manhattan, finding bonds in their similarities -- their unconventional upbringing in the spotlight.

CHELSEA CLINTON, HILLARY CLINTON'S DAUGHTER: Do you talk to kids about why math and reading --

SERFATY: Their career path, from high profile TV gigs --


SERFATY: -- to big roles now in their respective family businesses. And their family ties, both marrying men of the Jewish faith, Ivanka converting with marriage. On social media they both seem to be president of the other's fan club, effusive in their praise on Facebook and tweeting out compliments.

Ivanka quoting Chelsea in a tweet with the #wisewords.

Chelsea telling "Vogue" magazine there's nothing skin deep about Ivanka, saying she is aware of everyone around her. Quote, "It is an awareness that reminds me of my dad and his ability to increase the joy of the room."

But their biggest connection could also become their friendships' kryptonite. Both are fiercely loyal to their parents and big boosters of each of their parent's bid.

IVANKA TRUMP: I can tell that you there is no better person than my father to have in your corner when you're facing tough opponents or tough decisions. He is battle-tested.

SERFATY: A battle that could become a rivalry for this Trump and Clinton too.


SERFATY: And both Ivanka and Chelsea are seen as having a real potential to help boost the image to humanize each of their parents. So, likely, this sort of visibility of them out on the campaign trail, Jim, will only increase in the months to come.

SCIUTTO: Sunlen, thanks very much in Washington.

Sharon Waxman, she is founder and editor-in-chief of "The Wrap".

Sharon, the thing about the attacks between their parents is they're very personal. So, how does this friendship survive what we know is going to be a bruising political campaign?

SHARON WAXMAN, FOUNDER AND EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE WRAP: Well, there is no real friendships in politics. They will pull out the knives as the campaigns go on as long as Donald Trump seems like a viable candidate, which is not yet clear. But they can certainly stay friends for the moment because they have a lot more in common than they have -- than that is the difference between them.

However, as Donald Trump continues to maintain his dominance in the polls, as he starts to become considered more of a serious candidate. And again, that remains to be seen. He'll continue to aim for Hillary Clinton as soon as he breaks away from the pack. And I think that is inevitably going to drive a wedge between these two women who are clearly friends and clearly care about each other. But their first loyalty will be to their parents. No question about that.

SCIUTTO: You said it there, no real friends in politics, a tough reality. Thanks very much to Sharon Waxman.

Coming OUTFRONT next, Heidi Klum's comments after Donald Trump claims she is no longer a 10.


SCIUTTO: Donald Trump is just as entertaining in 140 characters as he is in person. You might even say his tweets are music to the ears.

Here's Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If Donald Trump's tweets are a window to his soul, what could be more soulful than Josh Groban singing.

ANNOUNCER: The best tweets of Donald Trump.

MOOS: Prepare for deep thoughts and weighty words.

JOSH GROBAN, SINGER: I've never seen a thin person drinking Diet Coke --

MOOS: Trump uses Twitter to launch political attacks but in the past, he's dispensed romantic advice.

GROBAN: Robert Patterson should not take back Kristin Stewart, she cheated on him like a dog --

MOOS: Truth be told, "The Jimmy Kimmel Show" took at least one of the Trump's tweets out of context --

GROBAN: We need global warming --

MOOS: Actually, Donald tweeted, "It is freezing and snowing in New York. We need global warming."

But there is nothing warmer than the Donald's regard for himself.

GROBAN: My IQ is one of the highest --

MOOS: But you can't prove it by his tweets.

To illustrate the point that the Donald's tweets are something a 12-year-old might sent, "GQ" posted a quiz. Who tweeted it, Donald Trump or a random teen?

Spoiler alert, it was a teen who tweeted, "Lena Dunham was still dummy trash". It was Donald who tweeted, "Word is spreading that I got a tattoo. No way."

Lately, Donald has tried to be more diplomatic.

But even as he tries to be a kinder, gentler Trump, he slips up.

Trump told columnists Maureen Dowd, Heidi Klum, sadly she is no longer a 10. Prompting Heidi to release a guy in a Trump mask demoting her.

She shrugged it off with the #heiditrumpstrump.

And cartoonist Jeff Danziger depicted Trump rating Heidi in all of his bare bellied splendor.

The last time Josh Groban sang tweets, they were from Kanye West. The Donald and the Kanye, birds of a feather went tweeting.

GROBAN: I love me --

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --

GROBAN: #makeAmericagreatagain

MOOS: -- New York.


SCIUTTO: Too funny. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. We're going to see you

again tomorrow night.

"AC360" starts right now.