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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump Picked over Rivals; Great Wall of Trump; Elite Prep School Graduate Case. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 18, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Premier of "The Evocateur: The Martin Downey Jr. Movie," right here on CNN this Thursday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Thanks for watching "AT THIS HOUR." LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Banish any notion that Donald Trump is just a flash in the pan. Brand new polling numbers among Republican voters put him far ahead of the other GOP candidates. In fact, Trump is more than 10 points ahead of former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who's the next one on the rung.

I'll break it down for you. In the first opinion poll since the GOP primary debate 12 days ago, Trump has shot up six points to 24 percent. Jeb Bush actually lost ground, slipping to 13 percent. On the economy, illegal immigration, and social issues, trust has skyrocketed that Trump is the man with the answers. That for the voters in the GOP. The other candidates don't even come close to his numbers. And here's a surprise, Trump has a slightly higher favorability among Republican women than he does among Republican men.

There is so much to digest here. So let's get right to it with CNN political reporter Sara Murray and CNN political director David Chalian.

I want to go right to those last numbers, the women. Sixty percent for women? This after he accused a journalist who gave him tough questions of being on her monthly cycle? How do we explain that, David?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think we explain it that Donald Trump was very successful in taking that controversy and making it yet again the media and the establishment turning against him. And that riled up his supporters. That rallies them to his cause because that is what they find so appealing is that he takes on the way things have been done in the past, politics as usual.

BANFIELD: So let's talk about the educated versus the less educated because there's some interesting numbers when you look at those. It turns out he has a very favorable opinion among those without college degrees. So 43 percent of those support him, while those who are more educated with college degrees, it's 33 percent of those. I guess the question here, Sara, would be this. No matter how many crazy pipe dream things people criticize him for throwing out there as solutions to all that ails us, building a 2,000 mile long wall that, you know, we'll report on shortly as really unfeasible, will it matter to those who are less educated? Do they even care that it might be debunked?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I think the interesting thing about this is that Donald Trump, despite being a billionaire, despite having started out working for his father, has somehow managed to tap into working class voters in a way that others in the Republican field really haven't. And it is very interesting to see that because they seem to actually trust him. they believe this idea that he is a great negotiator and will get a good deal and a lot of voters are sort of less concerned with the specifics. It doesn't mean they're not engaged on the plans at all and it doesn't mean just because you didn't go to college you won't have an opinion about his immigration plans or about his jobs plan or trade plan when it comes out, but it does mean that they look at Donald Trump as sort of an aspirational figure. This guy did well in business, he's made a lot of money and they trust that.

BANFIELD: You're voting for the guy, not necessarily the words or the platforms, et cetera. I've heard that before.

Here's something else I've heard before. The things that GOP candidates must have if they're considering throwing their hat in for a run for the top office, and it's usually this, a political track record, foreign policy expertise, national party backing, adherence to conservative values, an alliance with Fox News and pretty much you can tick every one of those off as something Donald Trump has said no way. Instead, he's gone all anti-establishment and he's really tapped into that. But I guess the question is this, David, we have heard of people being anti-establishment before. In fact, every election cycle all we ever hear is, "I'm the outside guy, I'm not inside the beltway, I'm the man for change." Why is this so different?

CHALIAN: Well, I don't think that we've had somebody quite as authentically outside the system that has the money and support he has at this stage of the game. I mean he's really tapped into something here.

And what's so interesting in our poll, Ashleigh, if you're with Donald Trump, you're really with Donald Trump. I mean he has 98 percent favorability amongst his supporters. The - of the most enthusiastic Republican voters, those that are most enthusiastic about the election, he's at that same dominant 24 percent as all Republican voters overall. So he's got a real diehard fan club.

[12:05:10] But the question is, if you're at 24 percent, that means you've got 75 percent of the Republican electorate who are either undecided or with someone else. And in a very large field, that's good for Donald Trump, but if the field starts to winnow and he ends up in a one on one or a one on two conversation with someone eventually, then that's going to recalculate the entire electorate.

BANFIELD: I'm going to throw some other numbers up among those who were asked, the Republican voters who were asked these questions. They had to weigh in on something else, Sara, and this one kind of defies all logic. I don't understand the juggernaut given the answers to the next polling question I'm about to reveal, and that is this. The Republicans have a better chance in 2016 of winning, 38 percent say yes with Trump, but 58 percent say they don't have that chance. They have a better chance of winning if they dump Trump. So how do we explain such soaring popularity when deep down they don't think he can win?

MURRAY: Well, I think this speaks to two things. One, like David said, there are about one in four Republican voters that are with Trump and that means there are about three out of four Republican voters who are not with Trump. And so I think that's what you're seeing in those numbers. I think the other thing we're seeing is, there are a lot of people who are enthusiastic about Donald Trump who are not traditional Republicans. We talked to people in Iowa who are considering Hillary and Donald Trump. So not everyone we're talking about here who is pro- Trump, you know, out in these early states is necessarily a Republican.

And the other part of Donald Trump's appeal, let's be honest, is he's a celebrity. So when you see him in a huge crowd of people at a place like the Iowa State Fair, some of those folks just there because they want to be able to get a selfie with the guy they've seen on TV.

BANFIELD: Well, it does look like a lot of fun, I tell you. Even outside the jury room it looked like it was a lot of fun. And who would ever say that, that showing up at Manhattan Supreme Court in lower Manhattan would be fun.

Sara Murray, David Chalian, thank you so much to the two of you.

I want to make sure our audience know, don't miss the next Republican debate. We've got it right here on CNN September the 16th. And it's at the Ronald Reagan Library in California. Set your Tivos, set your DVRs, set your whatever you've got, but watch it live because it's going to be electric.

Also, CNN is going to host the first of six Democratic debates as well October 13th. That debate will be held in Nevada.

Coming up next, I just mentioned it, Trump's plan to big that build old wall between Mexico and the United States. That is 2,000 miles long. Is it possible? We're actually going to take you to the border and walk it and show you why that may not be all he says it could be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:11:07] BANFIELD: Donald Trump has been making some pretty huge campaign promises and his critics are calling some of them pure fantasies. Takes, for instance, this idea to plan - or plan to build an impenetrable wall on the border between the United States and Mexico and then make Mexico actually pay for that wall. Here's Donald Trump outlining his plan at the Iowa State Fair this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You are going to love me in terms of immigration and illegal immigration. We're building a wall. It's going to be a wall that is not - nobody's going through my wall. Trump builds walls. I build wall. We're building a wall. It's going to be strong. It's going to be solid. It's going to be police. You know, somebody said they can tunnel under. Well, that's true. But with x-ray equipment they can't. All you have to do is fly a drone over it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, there's a lot of wall you've got to fly drones over. Is it really possible, though, to even build a wall that stretches the nearly 2,000 miles of the southern United States border? Think about it. A lot of states, a lot of land owners, a lot of everything. CNN's Gary Tuchman picks apart Trump's plan and he actually does it at the border, the place where this would happen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can a continuous wall be built along the entire 1,954 mile border shared by the United States and Mexico and be impenetrable like Donald Trump says he wants? Or even close to impenetrable? Well, it helps to know some precedent. There are some tall border walls, like this one in Nogales, Arizona. And they are challenging to go over, go through, or go under, but it happens all the time. They are not impenetrable. But this is harder to pass than this.

This much more commonly seen border fence along the Mexico/U.S. frontier. Railroad ties, a seven-foot fence, barbed wire, which you often see, but the barbed wire is very easy to cut and if someone is motivated to go through this desert here in southeastern Arizona, where we are right now, they could easily get through.

And we'll give you an idea of how easy it is to cut. Not only is the barbed wire gone here, there's no fence anymore, just the railroad ties. So now I'm in Mexico. Anyone would come through here just has to go under the railroad tie and they're in the United States. So, obviously, a big wall keeps people out much better than this does. And you can build much more big wall along the border. But can you build a continuous wall from the Pacific Ocean in California to the Gulf of Mexico in Texas? The answer is no.

There are a number of reasons for that. Firstly, we start with the fact that there are many ranchers who own land along the border who would all have to sell their land to the federal government. Then you have Indian reservations that are on the border. And then you're dealing with the issue of the topography. Steep terrain, mountains, streams make it impossible or nearly impossible to build a 15 or 20- foot concrete or steel wall. You can build a fence here, like the one that's here right now, but once you get through this fence, you would always have a gap right here, maybe a wall on this side, wall on this side, and immigrants going under this fence.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Donald Trump says to believe him when he exclaims that nobody will get through the wall he will build. But the facts on the ground indicate that at the very least it will be a promise that is quite challenging to keep.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Santa Cruz County, Arizona.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BANFIELD: Coming up, a case - a rape case involving a very elite boys school, one that actually John Kerry graduated from, along with a number of other dignitaries. And this time there are accusations at this school that there are lists and contests involving young girls and suggestions this kind of activity has gone on for years. Today it's actually in court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:18:27] BANFIELD: Right now, in a courtroom in Concord, New Hampshire, a young prep school graduate is on trial accused of rape. But what makes Owen Labrie's case stand out is that the alleged assault happened at one of the most elite prep schools in the nation with alumni like Secretary of State John Kerry, and former FBI Director Robert Mueller, and the list goes on and on. The school is called St. Paul's and attorneys say they are about to expose a secret culture there that includes allegations of, quote, "sexual scoring" where graduating boys compete to sleep with as many younger students as possible. According to the Associated Press, Labrie told police that he wanted to be number one in that contest. He's now charged with sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl on the roof of a campus building last year. And get this? His attorney is the same person who defended mobster Whitey Bulger. Boris Sanchez looks at the case of the scandal that has rocked this prestigious school.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six congressmen, 13 U.S. ambassadors and our current secretary of state, John Kerry, have all called this prestigious prep school home. But today the steep traditions of St. Paul's School in Concord, New Hampshire, are getting a closer look as allegations of rape put the school under a spotlight. Nineteen-year-old Owen Labrie has been charged with the sexual assault of a 15-year-old student on campus last year, just two days before his graduation. Citing a police interview with Labrie, the Associated Press reports the alleged rape may have been part of a tradition called the "senior salute." "The Concord Monitor's" Jeremy Blackman says Labrie was not in the contest alone.

[12:20:17] JEREMY BLACKMAN, STAFF REPORTER, "CONCORD MONITOR": This case raised an issue that a number of students are taking part in an annual tradition of competing with one another to have sexual encounters with under classmen.

SANCHEZ: According to the AP, senior boys kept a running tally of sexual encounter with marker on a laundry room wall. And later, the teen told detectives he was trying to be number one.

BLACKMAN: Owen Labrie claims that there were a couple of different kinds of senior salutes. Some that were not sexual at all. Some that were just, you know, going for a walk with a student or kissing someone.

SANCHEZ: Court documents obtained by Blackman show Labrie's encounter went well beyond kissing. BLACKMAN: According to his account, she was acting very aggressively

towards him and that he, in fact, had a condom in his pocket that she pulled out, according to his account, and that he put it on but both (ph) divine intervention and that it went no further than that.

SANCHEZ: According to "The Monitor," however, a medical examination shows the female student had a, quote, "laceration that would be consistent with penetration having occurred," end quote. Labrie has pled not guilty to all charges. A spokesperson for St. Paul's tells CNN, quote, "current allegations about our culture are not emblematic of our school or our values, our rules, or the people who represent our student body, alumni, faculty, and staff," end quote.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And our thanks to Boris Sanchez for that report.

I want to get into the legal view on this case with CNN legal analyst Paul Callan, and criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, as well as HLN legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson.

OK, gentlemen, one of the first things that stood out to me was the notion that prosecutors want to bring in the culture of the school. Isn't every case individual unto its own? How can they do that?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a fascinating question here because usually guilt by association is not admitted in an American courtroom. However, in this case it may be linked closely enough to the defendant that it's admissible. And just to give you an example, a case I was involved with involving the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang. If there's an initiation procedure that involves the killing of a rival gang member and you can say that an individual is a member of Hell's Angels and he's part of the initiation process, it might be admissible. Now, from Hell's Angels to St. Paul's -

BANFIELD: Big jump (ph). Big jump (ph).

CALLAN: They're saying it's the "senior salute." They do it and it's proof of this contact.

BANFIELD: So, Joey, there's this big fight over getting a list -

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

BANFIELD: A list that apparently the allegation is that Owen Labrie was in possession of. It might have actually been his list of names of young girls and the victim - or the alleged victim in this case is in all caps.

JACKSON: Only one in all caps.

BANFIELD: The only one.

JACKSON: That's right.

BANFIELD: And that's pretty devastating stuff. But, again, I look at that as, sure, that can tell you that there's some motivation, there's some intent there. But again, don't you have to prove that there's a rape?

JACKSON: You know, it's so important and your question as to the culture and as to this list go to the heart of the matter. Every case, Ashleigh, has to stand on its own merits. It's not about the culture of a school. It's not about what my friends did, what my associates did, it's what I did. Every case turns on the fact of your individual conduct.

Now, to that point, I get and understand that the culture of the school and that list, Ashleigh, could come in for a variety of reasons. Number one, to show motive. Number two, to show intent. Number three, to show it's part of a plan, it's part of a scheme. However, is it overly prejudicial? Will the jury now say, we hate the culture of that school, it's outrageous the culture of this school, but you know what -

BANFIELD: He must have done it.

JACKSON: He must have done it. And that's the risk as a judge that you run in allowing this evidence to come forward and to be admitted and heard before that jury.

BANFIELD: So let me ask you about the school in this case. I mean just unbelievable the list of the kinds of people that went to this school. We're talking about -

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Dignitaries, chief executive, writers, ambassador, secretary of state, many members of Congress. I think over a half dozen members of Congress. What about the legacy of the school? What about the liability of the school in this case, Paul?

CALLAN: Well, if there was in fact this culture of rape or this culture - this "senior salute" tradition, yes, the school would be responsible for not actively preventing it from happening. And look at - look at the roster of graduates in the school. Was this going on when John Kerry was at St. Paul? I mean it's - it's really a shocking claim to make.

But one other thing before we - one other layer of this that people have to understand, when an 18-year-old has a sex with a 15-year-old, that is a crime whether she consents or not.

JACKSON: Yes.

CALLAN: And so here -

BANFIELD: So they have to prove sex.

JACKSON: However -

[12:25:00] CALLAN: As long as there's no sexual - even sexual contact with her of any kind is criminal under the law. So there's going to be -

BANFIELD: Well, but there's the Romeo and Juliet laws.

JACKSON: Paul's right. Yes, Paul's right. However, your liability criminally is far less.

BANFIELD: Far less.

CALLAN: Yes, that's right.

JACKSON: So what Paul's talking about, if it's consensual, it's a misdemeanor. That's one year. The felonious assault count, which he's charged with a the lack of consent, that's 10 to 20 years.

BANFIELD: Ten to 20.

JACKSON: So if they establish it was consensual, it's a win for the defense, but it's still criminality, to Paul's point.

BANFIELD: I hope they get this one right, I'll tell you, because that kid was destined for Harvard and now he's not enrolled for the fall.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: And this is a - I mean this is a very tough case on both sides of it.

Paul Callan, Joey Jackson, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ashleigh.

CALLAN: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, from the campaign trail, Hillary Clinton's closed-door investigation with Black Lives Matter activists. We've got the video.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Checking our top stories.

More good news for Donald Trump. In the latest CNN/ORC poll, the billionaire developer has a commanding lead in the race for the GOP presidential nomination with the support of 24 percent of Republican registered voters. His next closest competitor? Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush way back, 11 points, in fact, back.

Also making news, Thai police hunting for a suspect in yesterday's deadly blast in Bangkok. A surveillance video shows a man putting a backpack under a bench. Authorities believe the bombing was a, quote, "deliberate act of terror." At least 22 people were killed in that explosion.

[12:30:09] In China today, thousands of firefighters, police officers and local residents pause for a moment of silence