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Josh Duggar's Name Exposed in Stolen Database of People Who Used Ashley Madison; David Sweat Appears in Court; Pentagon Monitoring the Rise in Tensions Today Between North and South Korea; Hillary Clinton Meets With Activists from the Black Lives Matter Movement. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 20, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:31:32] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: HARLOW, CNN HOST: A familiar name has just been exposed in the stolen database of people who use the Web site Ashley Madison. The Web site caters to married individuals looking to have an affair and it has been -- it is a man who has been engulfed in scandal before. I'm talking about former reality television star and family values activist Josh Duggar.

Laurie Segall is CNN Money tech correspondent is here.

You've been digging through the data because it wasn't released where we could just Google it. This one was released on the dark web. What did you find?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: It started out as the dark web and then all of the sudden as these tend to do, they started out -- ended up on the open web where people could put in any name and see if they were involved in this. So Josh Duggar's name did come up and we did a lot of cross-referencing to make sure it was in fact the former TLC reality star and also a man who has been very outspoken about family values. And as you mentions, he in a scandal a couple of months ago and he ended up being part of the site. And so, he came up with a statement just now and I want to read it to you.

I've been the biggest hypocrite ever while espousing faith and family values, I secretly over the last several years have been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife.

As you mentioned, he actually updated his statement to say he had been unfaithful to his wife. So you're beginning to really see people exposed by this hack. This was not a small hack, Poppy. This was 10 gigabytes of data dumped online. So much personal information. Millions and millions of people's partial credit card numbers, everything from sexual fantasies to full names and addresses. So we are just beginning to uncover some of the people that were on the site.

HARLOW: Everything is private until it isn't.

SEGALL: Until it isn't.

HARLOW: Laurie, thank you.

SEGALL: Thank you.

HARLOW: Also, the lone survivor of the daring New York prison escape and three-week long manhunt appeared in court today for the first time since his capture in June. A short time ago, convicted killer David Sweat was in a courtroom with his arm in a sling. He was there to be officially arraigned for the prison break.

CNN's Alexandra Field was in courtroom. She joins us now from Plattsburg, New York. What was determined in court today?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Poppy, he came in there under heavy guard, his hands shackled. His feet shackled. He was there for his arraignment on three charges related to the escape, two charges directly related to the escape, one charge related to promoting prison contraband and that of course refers to the hacksaw blades that were used for the two inmates to cut their way out of the prison.

David Sweat appeared at the courthouse here in Clinton County after he was awoken from his bed this morning at a different prison, (INAUDIBLE) prison which is about a five-hour drive from here. He was moved there after captured at the end of the June and he's been kept in solitary confinement. But he came into the courtroom today.

We spoke to his attorney who said that his client seemed subdued but also in a somewhat good mood. He only spoke very briefly in open court just acknowledging that he was accepting the representation of the attorney who was by his side.

And, Poppy, at this point, this case could go to trial if there isn't a plea deal that is reached. David Sweat, of course, has already serving a sentence of life in prison without patrol, but this conviction could help the department of corrections to ensure that he's kept under the strictest confinement at five points prison, Poppy.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Alexandra Field reporting live for us. Thank you very much.

Coming up next, it's the official first named hurricane of the season churning right now in the Atlantic Ocean where it is heading, we will tell you next.

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[15:39:21] HARLOW: The Pentagon is monitoring the rise in tension today between north and South Korea. It began earlier today right along the demilitarized border zone with the two countries firing back and forth at one another.

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HARLOW: North Korea took the first shot reportedly taking aim at South Korea's loud speaker as it continually blasted anti-Pyongyang propaganda. South Korea retaliating, firing off 36 artillery shells.

Let's talk about the significance and what happens now with CNN global affairs analyst and managing editor, of course, Bobby Ghosh.

Thank you for being here. This is not the first time we've seen this escalation and also North Korea threaten this over the weekend. Why is this time different?

[15:40:08] BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, the big context is that they are military exercises. This is an annual affair. The United States and the South Korean military do these exercises. It's a message to North Korea that if you get ideas about invasion, the United States is going to back South Korea.

Whenever these exercises happen, the north ratchets up rhetoric and this time they've talked about using nuclear weapons. That's very normal. The exchange of gunfire takes it one level further up. Now, both of these countries blast loud speaker propaganda. In fact, South Korea had not done so, switched its loud speakers off years ago as part of the previous negotiations. North Korea does this all the time. A couple of weeks ago, the North Koreans, just to test the envelope a little bit, planted land mines on --

HARLOW: Injuring a handful of soldiers.

GHOSH: The South Korean soldiers were injured. In retaliation, South Korea turned up its -- their loud speakers again. And so now, you have this tit for tat going on between the two. You worry because there are weapons there. And technically, these countries are still at war. The war hasn't ended. And one side has nuclear and a rather peculiar to put it mildly in leadership.

HARLOW: Let's talk about the leadership. What do you think this tells us about Kim Jong-Un's decision making right now, his regime? Does it seem to be unraveling?

GHOSH: Well, it's part of a pattern. He's a young man who took over leadership suddenly when his father died. He is carrying the burdens of legacy from his father and his grandfather. He has to prove himself. And traditionally in North Korea, the way you prove yourself is to take shots at South Korea. You do this verbally all the time and he has done so. He has ratcheted up the language. And this, I think, is part of the pattern of showing - of course, in North Korean propaganda, this is declared as a great military victory. The South then raised its voice against so, you know, basically bombed them into silence. That kind of propaganda is designed to build up the leader's credibility and I think that's what we've seen.

HARLOW: At what point does the United States get drawn in and not just in a military capacity but a more involved capacity?

GHOSH: It's hard to get more involved than military because the North Koreans don't talk to us, not in a sort of sustained, credible basis. Eventually with everything to do with North Korea, eventually, it's China that has some kind of control because China is the only real country in the world that with which North Korea can trade. It's North Korea's patron, if you'd like.

So the only country that has any kind of influence over North Korea and it's not always consistent, but it is has somewhat close, it's China. So if things get out of hand, eventually both South Korea and the U.S. will essentially turn to China and say, can you rein back this crazy person?

HARLOW: But we are not there yet?

GHOSH: We are not there yet.

HARLOW: Bobby Ghosh, thank you, as always.

Coming up next, my next guest calls it the most revealing moment of Hillary Clinton's closed-door meeting with the black lives movement. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocations of resources, you change the way systems operate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You don't change hearts. You change laws. Why that line is now drawing so much attention. We'll debate it, next.

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[15:48:01] HARLOW: Last week, Hillary Clinton met with activists from the black lives movement. The video from the meeting though jut posted online few days ago and it certainly has a lot of people talking especially about this part.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Look, I don't believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate. You're not going to change every heart. You're not. But at the end of the day, we can do a whole lot to change some hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them, to live up to their own God given potential, to live safely without fear of violence in their own communities, to have a decent school, to have a decent house, to have a decent future.

So we can do it one of many ways. You know, you can keep the movement going, which you have started, and through it you may actually change some hearts. But if that's all that happens, we'll be back here in ten years having the same conversations because we will not have all of the changes that you deserve to see happen in your lifetime because of your willingness to get out there and talk about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp and Marc Lamont Hill are both with me.

S.E., you wrote a fascinating piece right now, an opinion piece on CNN.com. I want to read part that stood out to me. In the middle you write, the matter of fact declaration that hearts can't be changed or at least the suggestion that it isn't worth trying is alarmingly, defeatist and frightening cynical and counter to the way most people, including Clinton herself, tend to approach social issues.

Do you believe that she was saying you cannot change hearts, period? Because when you listen to the whole thing, she qualify this.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. No, I think they thinks that some hearts can be changed but my interpretation was that you don't focus on changing hearts. You focus on legislation and reallocating resources. And frankly, I have not met an activist who has surrendered the idea of changing hearts and minds. And, in fact, most activists I know put changing hearts and minds first as a priority to achieve actual tolerance, actual acceptance, actual equality, instead of just legally enforced, legally required tolerance and equality and acceptance. So for here - I mean, literally, cut off this activist and say, no, no, no, you don't change hearts, what we need to concentrate on are legislation and money, not surprising that a Democrat thinking that money and legislation are solving problems, but cuts them off to say that was incredibly alarming and disturbing to me as someone who has been involved in social change and sees of value of changing hearts and minds.

[15:50:51] HARLOW: So what about the argument, S.E., that she's a politician, she is elected, will work towards changing laws, not being an activist.

CUPP: Sure, but she's talking to activist. And what she's saying is you don't change hearts. What she is saying, and I don't know if she's trying to placate the group that was in front of her, by saying I'm going to work on laws, I'm going to work on moving money around, but just telling activists to give up, that the priorities should not be changing hearts and minds is incredibly defeatist. And I would wonder how she would respond the fact why she changed her heart and mind on an issue like gay marriage? Is it just because of laws and money moved around? She doesn't actually change her opinion on that? Was her heart and mind changed? And how important is that if someone of her stature, President Obama's stature to come out and say publicly my heart and mind was changed on this issue.

HARLOW: Let me get Marc in there. And do I want to then come back to the issue of same-sex marriage. But Marc, just your response first at the (INAUDIBLE).

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, S.E. Cupp has me furious right now. I want to say that on national television. She has me defending Hillary Clinton, and I really hate doing that.

Hillary Clinton did absolutely nothing wrong here. First of all, as you pointed out, she didn't say, you know, we don't want to change hearts and minds. She said some will change, but she's also echoing a tradition that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. sort of articulated, 50, 60 years ago. He said, you know, you can't legislate morality. He said the law can't make a man love me, but it can stop him from lynching me. And I think that's pretty important.

You can't go out there and make policies that are designed to change people's minds about being racist or white supremacist or sexist or homophobic, you make laws as Dr. King said to regulate behavior. That is the job of a politician.

She was telling the activists, look, don't go out here and try to persuade the world to change their mind. You change the world to protect people who are in vulnerable circumstances. That's what this is about.

I think, S.E. is absolutely wrong. And to use gay marriage as an example, the people who were activists, who are anti-gay marriage, they are not trying to convince all of us that gay people were going to hell. And that gay people shouldn't get married. They tried to make a constitutional amendment protecting same-sex marriage and gay people. They tried to change policy. It's both end. Yes, you can continue to touch hearts and minds, but you need to change policy. And that is what Hillary Clinton was encouraging.

HARLOW: And S.E., let me ask you this. What, and as you rightly point out, Hillary Clinton, President Obama evolving their words on same-sex marriage over the years. However, what matters more to the people that what to see change? What matters more to the activists? Hearts and minds changing or actual laws like we just saw handed out from the Supreme Court?

CUPP: Yes, laws are important. Certainly minority classes need protection. Discriminating against black people already illegal, and still somehow they face racial discrimination. So the idea that laws will protect people alone certainly doesn't have a whole lot of merit. When I talk to gay people, I've been involved in social changes on the gay right side, when I talked to my gay friends, they want actual acceptance, actual tolerance, not legislated tolerance. That's important too. But if you talk to someone like Rob Portman who changed his mind on gay marriage because his son came out, not because some law was created to make him suddenly accept it, he would tell you and his son would tell you that was so much more gratifying authentic and long-lasting ultimately than just putting a law in place that maybe half the country disagrees with.

I'm not saying laws aren't important. Of course, they are. But we have lots of laws on the books, and still we're dealing with a lot of intolerance and racism that I think would be better served by leaders like Hillary Clinton talking about changing actual hearts and minds, not just let's throw some law --.

HILL: So you think the president of the United States --

HARLOW: Go ahead, Marc.

HILL: I just can't imagine the president of the United States saying that my primary job here is to change the hearts and minds of people. No, I want policy. I want laws. If Hillary Clinton had stood up and say, you know what, if I become president, I'm going to make my primary job to change the hearts and minds of white supremacist --.

CUPP: No one said primary job, Marc. That would be absurd. But certainly we would want or leaders, and most especially our president, I'm sure you would agree that President Obama has tried in his position as the first black president to change some hearts and minds on the issue of race. I would expect our leaders to take up that inspiration mantel, and outreach that changes hearts and minds on the issue of race. I would expect our leaders to take off that inspirational mantle and decide that it is worth investing in policies and legislation and outreach that change of hearts and mind.

[15:55:26] HILL: But she is. Hillary Clinton is not saying we shouldn't do it. She said that shouldn't be the first thing to so. She said some hearts and minds will be changed. Others won't. I mean, can you imagine if that was our priority? No, you start with policy and then things change --.

HARLOW: Guys, I got to jump in here. Thank you very much. A spirited, important debate.

S.E. Cupp, point everyone to your op-ed on CNN.com. It is fascinating.

Marc Lamont Hill, thank you very much.

We'll be right back.

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[16:00:04] JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Our money lead, ugly happening right now. Red ink on Wall Street as markets nose dive.

I'm John Berman. And this is "the LEAD."