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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Donald Trump's Speech in Mobile, Alabama; Discussion over Using "Anchor Baby" Term by Republican Politics. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 21, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:15] JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right. Good evening. John Berman here sitting in for Anderson. A lot happening tonight from markets plunging on Wall Street to a pair of U.S. service members stepping into the line of fire and stopping a terrorist gunman from committing mass murder aboard a speeding train in France. The latest on that, and more, just ahead.
Right now though, there is this. We are waiting for Donald Trump to speak in his biggest venue yet. A football stadium in Mobile, Alabama. His arrival honestly, an event in itself. Complete with a flyover from his private Boeing 757. You can see it right there.
One local papers ran a front page story today about the rally. They headlined it, Trump stumping in mobile, but why? Well, pictures like this is why.
On the other hand though, look at this, a less than full house at the venue. That could be problematic for this giant salesman. The Trump campaign says they got upwards of 40,000 RSVPs for the event. Does that look like 40,000 people just now? Looks like a lot fewer at this moment.
Still it is a big crowd. Larger it seems than any Trump event so far. But not the 40,000-plus. This rally was originally slate ford a much smaller venue then a larger one. And finally, it ended up here at the big football stadium.
CNN's Ryan Nobles is there.
And Ryan just a few minutes away from the rally. What's the mood there right now?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, as you can hear right now the national anthem is being sung to this crowd. The crowd have stopped trickling into this venue. So they are going to fall short of that 40,000 figure that the Trump campaign was bossing about for the past couple of days. But there is no question that the people that are here are energized and enthused to see Donald Trump.
I spoke to a lot of people waiting in line. Some of them as early as 6:00 this morning. They said that they are here because they believe that Donald Trump can win the presidency and that he should be the next president of the United States. Now John, as you know, of course, this originally was scheduled to be
in a venue that only seats about 1,200. They then moved it to a venue that seats 10,000 before moving it here to the football stadium. Certainly more people than would have fit in the 10,000 seat arena. But they will fall short of the goal of 40,000. And it looks as though, this probably will be the biggest event that Donald Trump has held or any Republican has held up until this point -- John.
BERMAN: All right. Ryan Nobles for us right there.
Not 40,000. Maybe more than 10,000, but certainly something. The optics of a lot of green and empty seats there maybe not what the Trump campaign wants.
Ryan Nobles, thank you so much.
As we wait for the speech to begin, and again, it could begin any moment. We'll go to it the minute it starts.
I'm joined now by CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord. He served as a White House political director in the Reagan administration. Also Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Ted Cruz and CNN political commentator Ana Navarro, who is both a Jeb Bush supporter and close friend of Marco Rubio. So not as much of a supporter there, but pretty close.
Amanda, I want to start with you. Look, this is a big crowd. That is a good picture right there of all of the people who will be standing behind Donald Trump when he speaks any minute from now. But what we have also seen this picture with a lot of empty space there. Is this perhaps the sign of a candidate who doesn't have a traditional political organization, does not have a traditional advance team?
AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SEN. TED CRUZ: Here is the thing. I think most of the candidates would be pleased with a crowd of 20,000. This is probably a smaller thing.
But look. I think it's important to look at why Donald Trump is in a place like Alabama on a Friday night. This shows that he is considering a strong post early state strategy for the SEC primary that will take place ten days after the South Carolina polls close. On that date, eight southern states will vote. And those votes will be worth 356 delegates.
This shows that he think there is going to be a long primary race. Other candidates in the southern states, Ted Cruz on a 22 city tour last week. And so, it shows that these candidates, they are bracing for something that is going to go beyond, Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.
BERMAN: Anna Navarro, what's going on here also, little campaigning. We are seeing it from Jeb Bush supporters, his super Pac. They flew a plane that was dragging a banner just a few minutes ago. It said Trump for higher taxes. Jeb for president.
Is this part of the, you know, the shift from Jeb being the joyful tortoise to the snapping turtle? Jeb Bush campaign now getting active and interactive with Donald Trump?
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know I am so through with the turtle metaphor. I am going for the Florida panther.
Look. I think when you have an issue you, you embrace it. And I think, you know, what he is doing right now is embracing this dual narrative the press has created with Donald Trump. And it's a good thing for Jeb Bush. Because all we have been talking about for the last couple of days and all over the media is this duel between Jeb Bush and Donald Trump. There is 15 other people running and nobody is mentioning them.
So I think Jeb, getting testy. Getting feisty. Fighting back. Talking about Donald Trump's record which is not conservative. Contrasting it with his which is a very conservative record as a governor is a very good tactic. It's a smart tactic for Jeb Bush.
[20:05:39] CARPENTER: If I may, quickly, because Jeffrey will have something really significant to say. I think Jeb really need to focus on shoring up his own conservative record before going and attacking other candidate. He has a lot of ground to make up. And he should be spending those dollars, defining himself to voters before spending time on Trump.
BERMAN: So Jeffrey, I should tell you right now. We just got --
BERMAN: Ana, hang on, we just got word that Donald Trump has arrived in the parking lot. So Elvis is near the building if you will.
Jeffrey Lord. I want to go to you, Jeffrey. Because earlier today I spoke to Mitt Romney's former deputy campaign manager. He said the reason that people are going to this event is like going to the circus, the circus is in town. But does that really matter? If he is putting 20,000, may not be 30,000 or 40,000. But if he is putting 20,000 in the stadium, does it matter why they're there?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No, I mean, I think they are there. And listening to the show, earlier, earlier, CNN show, people were being interviewed and they said they want to see him elected president. So I think that's why they're there. He is drawing the crowd. This is a good thing for him.
I must say I am somewhat amused at the Jeb Bush banner there about Donald Trump wants to raise taxes. Jeb Bush as I distinctly recall, endorsed his father breaking his tax pledge in the 1990s and raising taxes. And Jeb Bush said he did the right thing. So I am a little amused at that.
BERMAN: So Amanda. I will ask you to referee.
NAVARRO: Wait a minute. So you should also be amused at the fact when he was governor for eight years, he lowered taxes in Florida every single year. Never once raised taxes, lower than in Florida. So you know, start judging Jeb Bush by his record. He has his own record to stand with. If he didn't have a record, I would say, yes, go ahead and judge him for his brother. Judge him for his father.
But you know what? Let's judge Jeb for Jeb. He's got a record. He's earned it. Judge him for good, bad, ugly, pretty, for what he has done not what anybody else has done.
BERMAN: So Amanda, I want-up to referee now. Because Ana made the claim that it looks good for Jeb to be in this battle right now. She likes the good aggressive Jeb Bush. Mixing it up with Donald Trump. We are not talking the 14 other people in the race right now. But you know, is Jeb Bush being raised up into a battle with Donald Trump or is he being lowered down into a battle with Donald Trump, Amanda?
CARPENTER: I think he is being lowered down as a governor. A governor should be able to talk his executive record, his status, you know what he has been able to do for Florida voters. And instead, he is getting in the mud with Donald Trump. You get in the mud with Donald Trump, make it a reality show, and guess what? Donald Trump is going to win.
But what I do think is good for everyone in the Republican Party is the fact that Republicans are expanding the map. That the south is going to have more of a voice in this election. We never faced a more vulnerable Democratic nominee potentially than Hillary Clinton. We have the chance to elect a strong conservative. And the fact that everyone is going new states, recruiting more activists, more fund raising is a net good for the Republican Party that wants to win in 2016.
BERMAN: Jeffrey Lord, waiting again. We are just moments away, probably maybe even less from Donald Trump taking the podium right now and addressing this crowd there.
You know, the crowd, there are people. We don't have an exact crowd count there. But there is this stadium that seats 40,000 people and it's not full. So I do want to pose this question as we are looking at this picture right now. Does this show that Donald Trump doesn't have the advance staff that maybe he will get? But it's not there right now to make sure the optics are optimal?
LORD: Yes, I think that all of, all of the outsider candidates who don't hold office which is a Donald Trump, Carly Fiorina, Ben Carson. They're new at this. And even Donald Trump who is doing gang busters here in the polls and this crowd certainly supply the physical substantiation of the numbers we have seen in the CNN polls. It's a tough deal to put together these campaigns. Particularly if you have never run one yourself.
So I mean, I think they'll get the hang of this. And they'll get on with it and get the job done. I mean, I think they have done a remarkable job. I mean, this has become a phenomenon here. And I'm sure that they faced some challenges in getting this together. But I think they are getting their act together here and it will show.
And again, frankly, John, I don't think, I don't think that the people, you know, the John McCain thing, the Megyn Kelly thing, you know, I think viewers and voters out there are looking at these things saying not relevant to me. What's relevant is, you know, my job, the economy, that sort of thing. And that's why they -- they like Donald Trump.
[20:10:18] BERMAN: And Ana, you know, we are looking at this crowd. We don't have an exact crowd count, more than 10,000 or more than 15,000. Jeb Bush would die to have a crowd like that right now anywhere.
NAVARRO: So would Hillary Clinton.
BERMAN: Barack Obama. President Obama couldn't fill a stadium like that right now.
NAVARRO: There is absolutely no question that the crowd is very impressive on its own. Now, you know if they were seasoned in politics what they would have done is be in a smaller venue where they would have an overflow crowd. And we would all be talking right now not about empty seat, but about the overflow crowd and people, you know, making, snaking a line around the building.
That being said, you can't deny it. It is a very strong showing for Donald Trump. I think people find him appealing. I think people find him entertaining. I think people find him engaging. And, you know, and I think, they think that it is a great spectacle. It's look, the circus. Greatest show on earth.
BERMAN: All right. Amanda, Jeffrey, Ana, stick around. Enough on the optics. Enough on the pregame. What's important is what Donald Trump says when he takes the stage. That will happen just minutes from now. We bring it you just ahead.
[20:04:21] BERMAN: Donald Trump holding a stadium-sized rally tonight in Mobile, Alabama. This is the venue. He just arrived in the parking lot moments ago. We will bring you his remarks the minute they get started. They'll begin very, very shortly.
Back with us now, our panel, Ana Navarro, Jeffrey Lord, Amanda Carpenter.
Jeffrey, you are the one I think most supportive of Donald Trump. You are the one most supportive of Donald Trump among the group here. What's a Donald Trump speech? What's a Donald Trump speech to a stadium-sized crowd? What does he need to say?
LORD: Well he will be his usual informal self. I expect he will talk immigration. He will talk about the country. He'll talk about -- I know he thinks that this is a serious moment -- becoming a serious moment in American history where basically I think that the country is an open rebellion against the political establishment in both parties for that matter, Bernie Sanders included.
So, I'm sure that he will probably talk about that. You know, he is very, very good at this. He is getting increasingly polished. I heard someone say at the end of the day that he is beginning to look quote-unquote "presidential." And I do think he is beginning to shed the image of the reality talk star and looking more like the guy between two flags that we always see in official settings.
[20:15:41] CARPENTER: Amanda, you are smiling at that. Do you think it is actually true? Do you think that Donald Trump has changed? And I guess, the follow up to that, do you think he should?
CARPENTER: Well, I'm smiling because as a former speech writer, I love predicting what people are going to say and what they should say. I think we expect him to talk about illegal immigration. But also he has been pairing talk about Mexico with China and how our policies with those both of those country undermine the American worker which I think is very interesting and potentially appealing to union Democrats.
But if I were advising him right now, a, I would ask him to mention and praise the two U.S. marines who stopped the potential shooter in Paris today.
LORD: Good point.
CARPENTER: And I would also ask him to discuss the tumbling Dow market to exercise his business experience. I love it when candidates seize on current events to show why they would be a good commander-in- chief.
BERMAN: Ana Navarro, we are looking at pictures again of this rally, at the stadium where South Alabama, their football team plays, there is also college ball there, the gold get-go daddy ball.
As we have been watching more and more people have trickled in. Again, maybe not the 40,000 the Trump campaign suggested they might get. But still, a really big crowd by primary campaign standards.
Ana Navarro, we are not even at Labor Day yet. But it does feel like this campaign has been going on for a long time. Do you have a sense of what Republican primary voters want to hear about? Is it the things that have been discussed so far at length? Is it immigration which has dominated the Republican debate?
NAVARRO: Look, I think, I think different voters want to listen to different things. And there is a tremendous diversity of thought right now within the Republican Party. There is a whole spectrum of voters. What people are going to hear from Donald Trump today is what you always hear from Donald Trump. You are going to hear him tell us he is rich. You are going to hear him say he wrote "the art of the deal." You are going to hear him say he is smart. He went to Wharton school of finance. You are going to hear him attack George Bush. Probably say that Marco Rubio has bad hair. Probably say that Rand Paul is short, you know.
But the beautiful thing about Donald Trump is that he is consistently entertaining. I think one of the things that might happen to him is that he might suffer from overexposure because, you know, I could give a Donald Trump speech right now. Nabisco, Nabisco just moved, you know, its factory to Mexico. Let's boycott Oreos, Carl Icahn. I can call Carl, my friend Carl. He is going to look at the deal with China. He is going to get it done. So listen, we all know what he is going to say. He says it every time he is in front of a podium.
BERMAN: Ana Navarro, I would say, I would actually pay to go see Ana Navarro deliver a Donald Trump speech. Jeffrey hang on.
NAVARRO: I'm not sure I could do the hair.
BERMAN: Hang on.
NAVARRO: I could try real hard.
LORD: I'm was going to say the hair would be a problem.
BERMAN: I want to go back to Ryan Nobles right now who was at the stadium where, again, we are awaiting Donald Trump to take the stage any moment.
Ryan, it has filled in some. We can hear the music. We have seen the enthusiasm in the crowd. What's the latest from the scene there?
NOBLES: Well, yes, John. Pretty interesting moment not too long ago. And that's when a state representative in Alabama who represents his district, state capital of Montgomery, he actually endorsed Donald Trump to a raucous response here from the crowd. His name is Ed Henry. So there has been a few people that have come up to speak that have, you know, put their support behind Donald Trump which the crowd has been very receptive to.
But for the most part people are starting to get a little bit antsy. They have been waiting some time for Donald Trump to come out and he hasn't yet. We know he is here. His motorcade arrived about 30 minutes ago, probably somewhere in that range. And since then, they have just been playing loud music with only a few speakers sprinkled in between. They said the pledge of allegiance. They sang the national anthem. But other than that, no word on exactly when Trump is going to come out.
But I have to say there is still a lot of energy here. People are very excited to be here. You know, the stadium has stopped filling up at this point. So this is, as big as the crowd is going to get. It will fall short of the 40,000 people that the Trump campaign said was going to be here. But it is still a pretty impressive and energized crowd at this point -- John.
BERMAN: Listening to Aerosmith's "dream on" as we speak.
Ryan Nobles in the crowd there at Mobile, Alabama where Donald Trump is about to speak.
Amanda Carpenter, if you are still with us, I actually want to address something Ryan brought up there. Donald Trump has got the endorsement of a state representative in Alabama right now. As Donald Trump continues to lead in the polls across the nation, and in key primary states, is this something that you think we will see more of? Because up until this point you haven't seen the traditional endorsement rollouts that you see with leading candidates.
[20:20:29] CARPENTER: Well, there has been nothing traditional about Donald Trump. But certainly, in this homeland to go there and see, you know, Mobile, Alabama is a small town. I think it is roughly population of 200,000. To see a crowd like this on a Friday night would certainly be impressive. And keep in mind these are voters that aren't used to being courted. There is a lot of excitement there that hasn't been there before because there is always so much focus on Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina. And they want the race to be over by now.
For the first, people in Alabama feel like they have a voice. And so, I can see that there is an eagerness for people to endorse a candidate who is coming there and giving them some love.
BERMAN: If I remembered four years ago that primary actually did end up mattering in the race between Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney as they went state to state as the primary campaign moved on.
Jeffrey Lord, what about you? Does Donald Trump want endorsements from politicians at this point? Because on the one hand, you want as much support as you can get. On the other hand, you want to say, look, I'm not connected to the machine here, there or anywhere.
LORD: I think what's interesting about this is the endorsements when they come, I think they are going to come from the bottom up. In other words, people like that state legislator are going to be feeling the pressure from their constituents.
I can tell you a quick story. We had a special election for the legislature here in my area, central Pennsylvania. And the candidate, Republican candidate who eventually won, said to me that when he went door to door to talk state issues, the governor's budget, that sort of thing, everybody wanted to know where he stood on Donald Trump.
He was truly amazed. This was a month ago. He was truly amazed at this. So I am suggesting here that this is sort of inverting the traditional model here where instead of candidates endorsing at the top and thinking you are going to get, you know, that will filter down, if he's coming the other way and candidates and office holders will respond when they hear from their constituents.
BERMAN: Ana Navarro, if you are still with us, I want to go back to what we saw that banner being flown over the stadium a while ago that said Donald Trump for higher taxes. Jeb for president. There was a tweet, a picture that was tweeted out. It was tweeted out by Mike Murphy, who you and I both know is running the super Pac with $100 million that, that is in support of Jeb Bush right now.
So to me what this says, Ana, is that Jeb Bush supporters like yourself, like Mike Murphy have been thinking seriously over the last few days about how to deal with Donald Trump. That it is an issue of great concern at this moment. Am I wrong?
NAVARRO: Well, I'm not sure it is an issue of big concern.
BERMAN: Ana, hang on one second. I think we are looking at the man in the red hat right there. Small in my picture. Moving his arms. I think it is Donald Trump. He is there. He is on stage. Let's watch and let's listen.
We get a "sweet home Alabama" right now. Donald Trump at the podium right now.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Thank you. That's so beautiful.
You know now I know how the great Billy Graham felt because this is the same feeling. We love Billy Graham. We love Billy Graham.
You know this all started -- we had a hotel. And we were going to have about 250 or 300 people. And the hotel was great. They called this, it is something is happening here. We can't hold this. This is crazy what is going on. And then, we want to the convention center and they can have 10,000 people. And we are all set. We are excited. And the next day they said too many people we can't put them in. So we came here. We came here.
You know, today if you notice we have a stock market not doing so well. We have a country not doing so well. We have been saying it for a long time. We have politicians other than the few politicians that are with us tonight, right? We'll exclude them. But we have politicians that don't have a clue. They're all talk, they're no action. What's happening to this country is disgraceful.
And you know when I announce that I was running for president, I brought up, I brought up the subject of illegal immigration. And I took a lot of heat that I can tell you. Rush Limbaugh actually said incoming. He got more incoming than anybody I have ever seen. And two weeks later everybody was apologizing to me. They saw that I was right. Between what happened in San Francisco, to, to incredible Kate and her family, such an incredible family. And Jameel and so many people have been so badly hurt. The other day in California, last week, a woman, 66 years old, a veteran, was killed, raped, sodomized, tortured and killed by an illegal immigrant. We have to do it. We have to do something. We have to do something.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
[20:25:30] TRUMP: So we are going to talk. We are going to have a lot of fun. You know, the weather is a little dicey. That is OK. But --who cares, if it rains, right? Right? You know if it rains I will take off my hat and I will prove -- I'll prove -- I'll prove once and for all that it's mine. OK.
So we are going to talk about a lot of different subjects. And you know, it's nice, Friday night. What the heck, right? What's better? What's better? What people. The people that built this country. That's what we have here. I mean the people that built the country. Great people. So we'll start with a little talk on the illegal immigration, what's
going on. We've got to stop it. We are going to build a wall. And it is going to be -- you know, it is amazing. The politicians ten years ago, 15 years ago, they all wanted a wall but it never went. It never happened because somebody didn't want it. Probably a lobbyist.
You know, all these guys like Bush and like Hillary Clinton they're all taking care of -- I don't know if you know --
TRUMP: No. But, when Hillary has $60 million, and when Jeb Bush -- when Jeb Bush who is totally in favor of common core, weak on immigration right? Very weak on immigration. Wants to let people come in. Although now he is using anchor baby. You know he put out a memo, you cannot use anchor baby. Now because I used it. He is using it. Politicians.
But when they have in his case $114 million. In Hillary's case she has $60. Now, I don't know that she is going to make it to the gate, what do you think? I don't know. I'm not sure that she is making it to the gate.
Some bad things came out today, you know those classified, you know the word, classified. You know, they have destroyed General Petraeus over less. And nothing seems to be happening here. So it will be very interesting to see what happens ultimately.
But we have right now, and I just got these numbers today. I said what are they? 7.5 percent of all of the births in this country are illegal immigrants. OK. We can't afford it. And they're supposed to stay. Now, I turned out to be right, the 14th amendment. You know, I had these guys, you can't change the 14th amendment. It will take so long. On that I agree.
But you know what? An act of Congress. The 14th amendment, I was right on it. You can do something with it. And you can do something fast. You can do something fast. So we have 300,000 babies a year, 300,000 that you have to take care of. We all have to take care of. And you know, in the case of other countries, including Mexico, they don't do that. It doesn't work that way. You don't walk over the border for one day and all of the sudden we have another American citizen. It doesn't work that way.
Mexico doesn't do it.
[20:30:00] Other places don't do it. Very few places do it. We're the only place just about that's stupid enough to do it.
So I decided to run, I have gotten an amazing reception. We have to say, has this been crazy?
Man. I mean -- it's been wild. I'm a nonpolitician. The other day I served jury duty, right? I told you, they had occupation. I refused to put down politician. But I will say this -- we have a great politician here. We have a man here who really helped me. And he is the one person I sought his counsel because he has been so spot-on. He is so highly respected. Has anybody ever heard of Senator Jeff Sessions?
Huh? Jeff, come up. Where is Jeff? Get over here, Jeff. Look at him. He is like 20 years old. Unbelievable guy. Just say hello. Come here, Jeff. Just say hello.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: Donald, welcome to my home town, Mobile, Alabama. The American people, these people, want somebody in the presidency who stands up for them. The things they're interested in and the laws and traditions of this country. We welcome you here. Thank you for the work that you put into the immigration issue. I am really impressed with your plan. I know it will make a difference. And this crowd shows a lot of people agree with that. Congratulations! Welcome, and god bless.
TRUMP: Thank you, Jim.
He was so great. Such a help. So I go around and I see so many people. And I have been treated so well by the people. And you know, we're leading in every poll. We are leading in just about every state. Including Alabama.
TRUMP: We're leading in Florida. Can you believe it? And we're leading big in Florida. And you know, it is really amazing. I said well, Florida, I love Florida. It's a great place. Right, Great? But Florida we have a governor and we have a sitting senator and I'm killing them. Explain that? Obviously they're not doing a very good job. Because that shouldn't be happening. But we are winning in Florida, Pennsylvania, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, North Carolina, Texas. And then -- nationally we're, we're just absolutely way ahead of everybody else. In fact, you know if this were another country, we could maybe call for an expedited election right. I would love that. Can we do that? Can we do that? I would like to have the election tomorrow. I don't want to wait. So, the reason that I think we see this receptivity is that I know the game better than anybody.
I've been on the other site. You know, I was totally establishment ...
BERMAN: All right, we just loss the signal of Donald Trump there speaking in Mobile, Alabama. To a raucous crowd of big supporters there. In that Southern state. We just saw a lot. Let me run through some of the things we just saw. Number one, Donald Trump took the stage to "Sweet Home Alabama." You are watching him right now. We're having a hard time getting the audio back. He got right into the immigration discussion. He took some shots at Jeb Bush, some shots at Hillary Clinton. He had the sitting Alabama senator, Republican Jeff Sessions come up and say nice things about him at the podium. He also called for an expedited election. But let's listen to what he is saying right now. We have the audio back.
TRUMP: Can I do that?
TRUMP: You know, because I've built a great business then I feel sort of stupid. I say I don't want your money. Can I take it, please? I promise I won't do anything for him.
TRUMP: I told him, I said, you know, I don't want your money. Because in two years, when you come to see me about something, I'm not doing it, unless it is good and unless it's going to make America great again, right? Right? But I'm going to have to rethink it. I think I'm going to rethink that because I think I should take a lot of money. Are we allowed to give it to charity or something? I don't - Just take it. Just take it.
So what happens is -- these guys come up. And I'm lucky, you know, everybody says he is never going to run. OK. You know that, right? And my wife actually said, you know if you -- she knows me pretty well. And she also sees the reaction. And for a long time whether it is Trump "the art of the deal" which Obama and Kerry obviously did not read when they did this crazy deal with Iran. Oh, look. The "Art of the Deal." Come here, give me that book. I love that book. You know I said the other day. And it sort of played pretty well. That is my second. Help her over here. Help her over here. That is my -- give me that book. Give me that. There is always "The Art of the Deal," and that's the real one, that's the original.
BERMAN: All right, Donald Trump right now getting a copy of his book "The Art of the Deal" right there. Maybe he is going to sign it. Maybe he's going to keep it. Who knows? Anything could happen at this point. Based on what we have seen. He has been focusing on his business successes so far, focusing on immigration right away.
Next, we'll focus more on that, especially how the other candidates and the Republican field are using his hot button use of the term anchor babies in this campaign. We'll be right back.
BERMAN: Donald Trump holding a rally tonight in a stadium in Mobile, Alabama talking about a number of issues. Let's listen back in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We defend Japan. You know, we have an agreement with Japan where if somebody attacks Japan we have to come to their rescue. But if we get attacked Japan doesn't have to help us. Do you think that's a good deal?
TRUMP: That is sort of like Sergeant Bergdahl. Has anybody heard of Sergeant Bergdahl, the traitor. No, no, the traitor. I call President Obama the five for one president.
[20:40:02] We get Sergeant Bergdahl, the traitor, who, by the way, six people at least that we know of, six people were killed trying to get this guy back. Six people, they went after him. They wanted to get him back. So we get Sergeant Bergdahl and they get five people that they desperately wanted for years that are right now back on the battlefield trying to kill everybody including us. How stupid are we? How stupid are we? And, you know the reason we have crowds. And no matter where I go. The other night we were in New Hampshire. We had some, New Hampshire was so incredible. The crowd you saw it. It was - and every time I go on television. It has got to be live. It's live. I said can I have a rest, please? Tonight it's live on Fox. Who likes Fox? I like Fox. It's live on CNN. Who likes CNN? This is going to be - and it's live on MSNBC, right?
Well they're still working. They're still working. But I said, you know, how come it always has to be live. Why don't they just cover me like anybody else? Where they go the next day, and they show a little clip. Every time I speak it has to be live. It's not just ridiculous. But it is OK. Right? We have to suffer with it. But look, the reason I have this incredibly, really incredible enthusiasm. And I really appreciate you, especially with this weather and this heat and everything else. But the reason I have it is because I do know what I'm doing. And I don't say that in a braggadocios way, you people are looking for somebody that knows what he is doing. Whatever it is.
TRUMP: You know. You know, thank you, darling. I am going to sign her book. I have to get her the hell out of here. She is so beautiful. I said it the other night. My second favorite book of all time. What's my first favorite book?
AUDIENCE: The Bible!
TRUMP: The Bible.
TRUMP: And as much as I love "The Art of the Deal." it's not even close. We take the bible all the way, right? OK. Thanks. So I was saying, so they said I wasn't going to run. And everybody was, oh, he's never going to run. Never going to run. He is just having fun. Just a good time. His brand. And like I care of my brand. At this point. You know my brand. I mean I lose gutless Macy's because I said about illegal immigration. They dropped my brand. And I'm supposed to be. They're gutless. They're all gutless. I have to sue Univision. Univision, my poor Miss Universe people. These beautiful women, some are girls. These beautiful women. And I get dropped by think of it. You have these magnificent women that work all their life to be in the Miss USA contest and two weeks before the contest NBC and Univision drop. Because they thought my tone was a little bit strong. And it turned out I was right. So here's the good news. I sued them both. And I mean in the case of Univision, I sued them for $500 million. I want that money. I want that money. So, I actually put it on the other day. Miss USA, I put it on, because it was only fair to the people. And we had it on this small network. And it was fine. But who would do that? All because they want to be so politically correct. They actually called, and they said we'll get it back on soon. We'll get it back on soon. You know, in the case of a couple they said Trump loses NASCAR. It was all over the world. The friend of mine called. You know, because I opened with a strong statement. Meaning, illegal immigration, we got to solve the problem. So all over one day. It was NASCAR. Trump loses NASCAR. I said I don't have a deal with NASCAR. It turned out, it turned out, that I lost NASCAR, you know what they did. They rented a ballroom at Trump Doral. Can you believe it? That was my lawsuit. They had a ballroom. And by the way, I kept their deposit and rented it to somebody else. The next day, I didn't even know I had a deal with them. It turned out they had a ballroom in one of my places, Doral. The next day, ESPN severs ties with Trump. It's all over the world. ESPN. I have friends that called me from Paris. She is a great businessman. Oh, that's too bad about what happened to ESPN. You know what it was? A golf outing at one of my courses in Los Angeles. Can you believe it? This is my big deal. And this was all over the world.
TRUMP: I mean the press, I don't know maybe they didn't get it. Maybe they don't get it. I was very disappointed, though, with Macy's. You know, shirts and ties. Not a big deal. But they heard there are going to be three pickets in front of the store. And they called, we're going to have pickets. Look at that pickets. I said look in two hours they will be gone.
BERMAN: All right. Listening to Donald Trump talking about all his various business ventures, he's talked about his book, he's talked about his hotel. And he's talked about knowing what he is doing. Although he says he is not bragging. He did begin this speech though, talking about illegal immigration within the first minute that he took the stage. And he's kept on coming back to it. And yes, he has used the words that have caused controversy, he's used the words anchor babies to describe the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the United States. And those words have been causing, I would say some indigestion with the Republican Party, because they are focusing on things that perhaps many of the party establishment do not want to talk about.
So, the issue was this: embrace the words. Risk offending Latinos in the general election, or denounce them and lose a chunk of the Republican base for caving as Donald Trump is accusing them of. Caving to political correctness. Now, this is Donald Trump weighing in on that issue earlier along with Jeb Bush and most recently Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is a very big question as to the anchor babies. You mean it is not politically correct. And yet everybody uses it. So you know what? Give me a different term. I will use the word anchor baby. Excuse me, I'll use the word anchor baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret using the term anchor babies yesterday on the radio?
JEB BUSH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I didn't. I don't - I don't regret it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't regret it?
BUSH: No, do you have a better term?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not - I'm asking you.
BUSH: OK, you give me a better term. And I well use it. I'm serious.
TED CRUZ (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is nothing that the press likes more than a side show on some politically correct debate. Who cares? What people care about is solve the problem. And I'll tell you if I am elected president, the federal government will secure the borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: But that's Senator Ted Cruz right there. Governor Bush, we should mention, is in the middle of a war of words with Donald Trump about whether or not he was against using the term before he embraced it. Though he did not seem especially comfortable about being asked about it. Marco Rubio this week distanced himself from the phrase altogether. Back now with us, Ana Navarro, Jeffrey Lord and now Attorney Raul Reyes who just wrote an opinion piece for cnn.com title, "Sorry, Jeb, anchor babies is a slur." So, he'll explain that. Explain to me why you think that anchor babies in your words is a disgusting slur?
RAUL REYES, ATTORNEY: For a few reasons. First of all, it's inaccurate. Because it's based on two myths. The first is that if undocumented people come here to this country, cross over the border illegally, and they have a child that this child can anchor the family here and grant them citizenship or sponsorship. It doesn't work that way. And we know that because Department of Homeland Security deported something like 73,000 parents of U.S. citizen children in 2013. Second of all, it's also based on a myth not substantiated by any data that women are rushing over the border to have a child. Now, again, not substantiated by data. We have the CDC has looked at the phenomenon of foreign residents having children here. They come up to about 7,000 a year. That's not how we got to a population of 11 million undocumented people. So, there is a myth. And the reason - that's the myth that are underpinning this term. The reason why it is offensive to so many Latinos because it is tagging people, children, and American citizens with a label based on a huge assumption about what we think their parents' immigration status is. And it's not necessarily just something that, a partisan thing. This is something that one of the, Alfonzo Aguilar, his leading voice on the right has denounced. Marco Rubio said these children should be called human beings. To me, it's not even a partisan issue. It's just an issue of respecting our Constitution. Respecting the 14th Amendment. And moving away from this type of hate speech that has consequences. BERMAN: All right, Ana. You've defended Jeb Bush, his use of the
words, in a way saying that he was referencing the phrase or the use of the phrase rather than necessarily introducing it into the conversation himself. Nevertheless, he did use it. But I want to know in a vacuum. Do you find the phrase anchor baby to be offensive, Ana?
NAVARRO: You know, John I will tell you the truth. I really am not very familiar with the term. I live in Miami, which is a little bit different than maybe other parts of the United States when it comes to how Hispanics are treated. The bottom line is we are the majority here, we are the establishment here. I don't hear that word anchor baby here. I have heard it now within the political spectrum. And I, you know, I understand that it is offensive. I don't like the term. It's not a term I use. I will tell you I have known Jeb Bush for over 20 years. I have had a lot of conversations with him through those years about immigration. I have never once heard him use that term. If I thought Jeb was using that term on the radio as a slur, if I thought Jeb was using it as his own words, I would have an issue with it.
NAVARRO: But he wasn't. He was using it as a term of reference. How many times have we heard African-Americans use the n word? Not as their own words, but as a term of reference. So I think, you know, let's put it in context. He wasn't embracing the word. He was, he said, the word as anchor babies as they are referred to. Not a word I want to use. I wish we weren't having this conversation.
BERMAN: He did say, you know, if you have a better term. Give it to me. I will use it.
Jeffrey Lord, Donald Trump, again, you are supportive of has used the phrase again tonight. And he's used it repeatedly. I do not suspect he will stop using it any time in the near future. And it may very well be that people in that crowd tonight. Some of the people in that crowd tonight, some people believe that it's - you know, flying in the face of political correctness and that is a good thing. However, if Donald Trump does become the nominee of the Republican Party -- if that does happen. Don't you think that the use of this phrase will alienate some voters that he will need in the general election?
LORD: I think voters that are going to be alienated by that are predisposed to be alienated. Donald Trump is not alone. Ben Carson has gone down this road with political correctness. Senator Cruz has. I think Senator Cruz had it exactly right. This is a side show. And this really is about political correctness. And if we are going to be running through all of American society and saying, well, you can't say this. You can't say this and you can't say that over here. This is exactly one of the things that has finally just reached the boiling point here. I think with a large part of the public. That they're just tired of it all. And they see this, I mean this goes well beyond anchor babies. You can pick all of, any number of things. Black lives matter. You are not supposed to say, you know, something else. Governor O'Malley said what - that white lives matter and suddenly he was accused of being insensitive.
I mean this - it's political correctness that is the problem. I think Governor Bush was well within his rights to say it. I think anybody is well within their rights to say it. And I think we ought to get over it and move on. It is a side show.
BERMAN: Raul, address two issues for me. Number one, is it overly politically correct to be concerned about this? And two, do you buy the argument that Jeb Bush wasn't using the term except in reference to its use?
REYES: Well, first of all, no, it is not being overly politically correct. And as a point of reference just yesterday we saw an alleged hate crime up in Boston where two of guys allegedly attacked a homeless man who was Hispanic. And in their statement to the police officers they referenced Donald Trump and said he is right about these illegals being here in this country, and that was part of their statement. So, we see the consequences of this type of hate speech. These derogatory terms. They ripple throughout the population. And what has happened to Jeb Bush, unfortunately. This is an extreme term. This is traditionally - has always been a derogatory term. He is bringing it into the mainstream. Jeb Bush may have used it in a particular context. But to the question that he posed to the reporters and said, what else should I call these children? He can call them American citizen. He can call them children. He can call them babies. This is a very serious misstep on his part. Given his family ties to the Latino community. And this could well haunt him in a general election just - the way we saw Mitt Romney's comment about self-deportation come back to haunt him in a general election with Latino voters.
BERMAN: Jeffrey, let me ask you about the incident that Raul just brought up. That these - these people in Boston who were arrested for beating an immigrant who said they were inspired by Donald Trump, or at least said that Donald Trump was right. Now, Trump has since come out and tweeted, you know that he is outraged by the fact that it happened. But initially, initially when he was asked - this is the tweet right there. "Boston incident is terrible. We need energy and passion, but we must treat each other with respect. I would never condone such acts."
When he was first asked about it, he said it was a shame, but he said, you know, my supporters are very passionate. They want America to be great again. What does it say to you that even in passing that Donald Trump's first response is that the idea of wanting America to be great again could ever involve beating up anybody?
LORD: Oh, john, I don't think that's even close to the truth. But I, I would -- I would say this. Let me give you a similar incident. We all know a few months ago that we had a shooting in Charleston, South Carolina. A young man went into a black church. Killed nine people. He was a supporter of segregation, which was the underpinning of the Democratic Party for decades and decades and decades. I didn't hear an apology from the chairman of the Democratic National Committee. I didn't hear people saying well, it is all the fault of the Democratic Party. The people who do these things are responsible for their actions.
BERMAN: No doubt.
LORD: Not Donald Trump, et cetera. So I just think this is ...
REYES: And yet, our leader set the tone for this type of discussion. And we know that because when we look at the FBI data for last year. Hate crimes against Latinos and Hispanics were tripled from years before.
REYES: So this type of, these type of words. They have an effect in our society. They're already derailing to a certain extent, Jeb Bush's message. And I think believe ultimately it's going to boomerang back on Donald Trump as well.
LORD: Well, I just -
NAVARRO: John, let me just --
LORD: I just don't agree with that. I mean whatever Governor Bush's strengths or weaknesses are this is not one of them.
BERMAN: All right, you know what, Ana Navarro, Jeffrey Lord, Raul Reyes, we are going to stop just now for a second. We'll be right back.
BERMAN: Donald Trump on stage in Mobile, Alabama. Let's listen for a bit more.
TRUMP: And I say, let's assume that somebody else becomes president. Wouldn't that be horrible? Wouldn't that be horrible? So, let's assume somebody else becomes president. Let's assume a very low energy person, very, very low energy, so low energy that every time you watch him you fall asleep. But let's say ...
BERMAN: Donald Trump, not low energy. That does it for us at this hour. We'll be back at 11:00 Eastern.
BERMAN: CNN tonight starts right now.