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Saint Louis Police Shooting; Interview With Former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson; Dow Dropping. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 21, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:04]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

DUSTIN MOSKOVITZ, CO-FOUNDER, FACEBOOK: So, it's things like that. We need to...

HARLOW: From the top.

MOSKOVITZ: Yes, we need to make it clear that this is the culture we're going for.

And we also need managers who will make sure to think harder about performance and do more than just see someone at their desk toiling away and sweating, and think about the actual impact they are having as a way of measuring their contributions.

HARLOW: All right, well, Dustin Moskovitz, I would point everyone to "Medium" to read "Work Hard, Live Well," wrote you about this. Thank you, sir.

MOSKOVITZ: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: Good to have you on.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

HARLOW: Three o'clock Eastern, top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow, in for my good friend Brooke Baldwin today.

And we begin with breaking news. The Dow is plunging, down nearly 400 points as we enter this critical last hour of trading on a Friday. We got a ton of volatility right now with just an hour before the closing bell. Stocks are getting hammered, down triple digits, all part of this global gut check, if you will, with economic anxiety running hi.

Cristina Alesci live at the New York Stock Exchange.

It's getting worse by the hour, down 100 more points now than it was an hour ago.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

We just -- we spoke about an hour ago. And we are even closer to correction territory than we were when I spoke to you earlier. And I heard big noises on the floor when we got that big drop.

So clearly, nervousness here on this end, but all around the world, as you mentioned, this is really a global story, the fact that emerging markets have taken a big hit. The U.K. is in official correction territory already.

HARLOW: Right.

ALESCI: So we have seen this kind of play out. And the three main drivers here are lots of question marks around the second biggest economy in the world and its ability to grow. That's China. We got the really negative data out of them last night.

And then you have pressure on oil prices because there isn't enough demand in the face of a global supply glut. So you have those two things going on, plus, lots of question marks about what the Fed will do if the face of this new market reality, which is a lot more volatility than just a couple of months ago, Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes, right. So, the Fed has its dual mandate, right, inflation around 2 percent and unemployment.

But, as you mentioned before, it's hard to believe that the Fed is not going to consider a huge sell-off day by day by day here, whether -- writing considering whether do we -- hike rates in September, do wait until December, when do we do that?

ALESCI: That's right.

The Fed -- a Fed official came out earlier today in an attempt to kind of calm everybody down and he said, look, we don't pay attention to day-to-day moves. But the reality, as you said, they can't ignore this kind of motion. They can't ignore this kind of nervousness.

Also keep in mind, underlying all of this, we haven't had a correction since 2011, Poppy. A lot of analysts and strategists with this rise that we have seen since 2011 have said, hey, it's about time that we take a little bit of a reality check here.

What does this slowdown mean in global growth mean for U.S. companies? And we have seen that play out. Some of the best-performing companies in the S&P are being hit today. We're talking about Apple and even Netflix, which has doubled this year in value. They have taken big hits. These are companies that were previously immune to market moves.

HARLOW: Right. Cristina Alesci there for us at the New York Stock Exchange, we will be back with you as we continue to watch the market just absolutely tanking here, down 381 points. Cristina, thank you.

Richard Quest, host of CNN's "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," will be live with me in just a few moments.

Meantime, more breaking news, the U.S. bracing for a possible war between its ally South Korea and its hostile night to the north, North Korea issuing a deadline to the south after an exchange of fire over the border. Take a look at this.

These are new pictures of Kim Jong-un apparently holding an emergency meeting with military leaders, ordering front-line troops to prepare for battle and threatening an all-out war, that is, unless South Korea stops blasting anti-Pyongyang propaganda over the loudspeakers right on the border there.

But South Korea, home to nearly 30,000 U.S. troops, not rolling down -- not backing down, rolling out their barricades, as we hear that the joint military exercises between the United States and South Korea have just resumed after a short break.

Joining me now, Bill Richardson, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, also a former governor of New Mexico.

Thank you for being with me, sir. Your perspective is invaluable right now, considering your many trips to North Korea, the last one, I believe, in 2013. Thank you for being here.

BILL RICHARDSON (D), FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: Well, I'm concerned about this.

This is different than other border skirmishes. There hasn't been a serious one in the last five years, but this is the first major border skirmish under Kim Jong-un's leadership. And we don't know much about him, except that he's unpredictable, he's warlike, he's thin-skinned, and he's also unsure of his own leadership capacity in North Korea.

[15:05:05]

So, what you don't want him is to get overly aggressive to try to impress his own population. And, at the same time, the South Korean president has to be tough, too.

HARLOW: Right.

RICHARDSON: So you don't want each one to try to out macho each other. The United States is right there. We have 28,000 troops. We have a treaty with South Korea that says we have to come to their defense.

We should stand with South Korea, but this is the need for some diplomacy and mediation because this is serious. These are rocket attacks, artillery shells. In the past, it's just been small-arms warfare. But I'm concerned about this.

HARLOW: Let me ask you, sir, about the 4:00 a.m. deadline -- 4:00 a.m. Eastern time overnight really here is the deadline for -- North Korea says South Korea has to stop blasting that anti-Pyongyang propaganda or messages, if you will, across the border to Pyongyang. What is that deadline passes and nothing changes? How do you think Kim Jong-un will respond?

RICHARDSON: Well, hopefully, another reason that Kim Jong-un does this is to ramp things up and then, when nothing happens, he takes credit and says, well, you know, I'm a peaceful person. I want dialogue. Let's cool things down.

So, you know, these leaders manufacture crisis with some kind of endgame. But my worry is, what if he doesn't have an endgame and the South Koreans respond and then this gets out of control? I mean, what you don't want is this tinderbox to explode.

HARLOW: Right. And that's been your concern, right, is the inexperience in dealing with crises?

RICHARDSON: Yes, that's my concern, the fact that he hasn't dealt with the crisis like, he's unsure of his own leadership. He's exterminated some of his own people. He's moved his generals around.

He's unsure whether he has real support within the North Korean leadership. So, you don't want him to use a case like this to demonstrate to the world that he needs an assurance. Now, another reason could be that he wants to say to the United States, to China, to the world, hey, you have got to deal with us in North Korea. It's not just Iran, it not just crises in the Middle East. We're here, too, and we want to hopefully make a deal and finds way to work with you.

That's the ultimate best scenario. But I wouldn't count on it.

HARLOW: Yes, wow. Right, Ambassador, thank you. Stay with me though for a moment, because I also want your perspective on this.

We are in the last hour just getting this breaking news into here at CNN in the past few moments. The White House has just confirmed the second in command of ISIS has been killed by a U.S. drone strike. We're told that it happened near Mosul in Northern Iraq, a source telling CNN that this was likely a targeted attack to take him specifically out.

He is the top deputy leader to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS.

So, Ambassador Richardson, with all of your international diplomat experience, tell us a little bit, if you could, sir, about the significance of him and what that tells us about, frankly, improving U.S. intelligence in this war on ISIS.

RICHARDSON: Well, this is significant.

This is one of the major strategists. He's number two. I don't know if he's the architect of the beheadings, but he certainly has been very involved in some of their militaristic efforts. Now, this is a victory for American intelligence. They don't get enough credit, but, yes, it was a drone strike, but you have to know where this person was.

This means that our human intelligence capability is improving. And that is the key with ISIS because they're so evasive. They're all over the place, so we need to know where they are to go after them. So this is positive. This is significant.

HARLOW: Right. Also, though, we have learned this -- there's been so much talk about chemical weapons and ISIS in the last week.

And more breaking news on that front, that a senior U.S. official just confirming to us here at CNN that traces of mustard agent have been found on ISIS mortars. I want to show you pictures of these apparent burns to the Kurdish fighters.

When you look at ISIS -- I think we have those photos. Maybe we can pull them up. But, regardless, when you look -- there they are. When you look at ISIS armed with chemical weapons or mustard agent that it appears they may have mixed themselves.

How does this change the U.S. strategy here?

RICHARDSON: Well, these individuals knows, terror knows no bounds. They will do anything. It's not just the beheadings, mustard gas, massive executions, massive human rights violations.

But at the same time, they are recruiting people. So they are dangerous. They are getting stronger. So what does it mean for the U.S.? It means we have to broaden our coalition of countries engaging in the military effort. We're improving our intelligence. That's important, too.

[15:10:05]

And we need to get our allies in the region. This is why Saudi Arabia, some of the other countries, the Gulf states, need to participate more in the fight against ISIS than they have.

HARLOW: Ambassador Bill Richardson, thank you so much. Important perspective on both of those breaking stories for us. Thank you.

Also breaking right now, the first hurricane of the 2015 season strengthening.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

HARLOW: Ahead, more breaking news. We're getting word of an attack involving a gun and a bladed weapon on board a train bound for Paris. We will take you there live next.

Also, his death sparked violent protests in Saint Louis this week, and new today, the teen killed by the police we now know was shot in the back. Now officers are canceling vacation, bracing for potential violence over the weekend. We will take you there live.

And some say it's a racial slur. Others, like Jeb Bush and Donald Trump, say they won't stop using the term anchor babies. Now a new fight between those two candidates over something they agree on.

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[15:16:43]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news. HARLOW: All right. We are keeping a very close eye on Wall Street

right now. You can see the sell-off accelerating into the close here, the Dow down 460 points. This marks the single biggest sell-off for the Dow Jones industrials average of the year so far, four straight days of losses. We will have a live report straight ahead. Again, we're monitoring a huge sell-off on Wall Street.

Also getting more breaking news just into CNN, reports of shots fired on a high-speed train between Amsterdam and Paris. We're told the gunman, who was also armed with a knife, was taken down by passengers on board that train.

Let's go live to Paris, CNN's Jim Bittermann, CNN senior international correspondent, on the phone with me.

Jim, are you with us?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I can just barely hear you.

HARLOW: All right, what can you tell us about what happened on this train?

BITTERMANN: Well, we're still waiting to find out ourselves because the fact is this apparently took place a couple of hours ago.

The interior minister of France is on his way to the scene, which is about halfway between Amsterdam and Paris. And we're expecting to get more information when he gets on the scene.

In any case, what we do know is that there were three people injured, two of them apparently by gunshots from an automatic weapon, according to a spokesman for the national railroad here. And the gunman was apprehended. He was armed with the automatic weapon and a knife. There was a third person injured. We're not quite sure the extent of his injuries, probably not too serious.

But one of the persons injured is in critical condition, another not- so-serious condition, and a third had light injuries, so three people injured on this train. it's not clear what the motivation for this was. The Paris prosecutor's office, which normally handles terrorism cases, has opened up an investigation, but the spokesman for the interior minister here says that in fact it is premature to suggest that this is terrorism-related.

HARLOW: All right, Jim Bittermann, thank you very much live for us on the phone in Paris. As we get more information on that attack, we will bring it to you.

Also this, Saint Louis police now cutting vacation days, adding hours to prepare for how the community there might react to news of another deadly politics shooting. An autopsy showing 18-year-old Mansur Ball- Bey was shot in the back. Officers say they opened fire after the teen pointed a gun at them as he ran from a house that they were searching. Ball-Bey's death setting off protests this week, leading to nine

arrests so far. Now the attorney for his family giving a much different version of events to our Ryan Young.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERMAINE WOOTEN, ATTORNEY: Witnesses are saying just the opposite, he did not have a gun at all. They have seen two police officers in plainclothes. The only problem is, they didn't know they were police officers. These guys never identified themselves as police officers.

The only they see is two plainclothes men approaching with guns. So Mansur and this other young man took off running and ultimately after running about 20, 30 feet, Mansur was not from the back.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The autopsy shows what in terms of where he was shot?

WOOTEN: The autopsy shows that the bullet would have entered at the right side of his back, traveling in a left motion, which would have been going in this direction and ultimately the bullet would have hit his artery and it would have killed him almost instantly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: With me now, editor-in-chief of OZY.com, Carlos Watson, and anchor of "CNN TONIGHT," Don Lemon. Thank you both for being here.

[15:20:05]

Don, let me begin with you.

What are we learning today about how many times police fired at this teenager?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is according to a source who told me close the investigation saying -- this is according to him -- four shots were fired, Poppy, that one of the officers fired three times. One of the officers fired one time, and that the fatal shot was actually the shot to the back.

HARLOW: So a lot of the debate now is over whether or not he had a gun, what he was doing with the gun, if he had one when he was shot in the back. Still very murky in terms of knowing what is what.

LEMON: It's still very murky. As you have said, witnesses are saying there was no gun. Police are saying there is a gun.

HARLOW: Some witnesses are saying he threw the gun.

LEMON: He threw the gun and they are doing DNA tests on the gun to see if it matches the DNA, Ball-Bey's DNA.

I also think it's important to point out that what they are doing there in light of what has been happening with the protests. Obviously, Saint Louis and Ferguson, that area very volatile considering a year ago with Michael Brown. Here's what my source tells me, that police are canceling their rec days, which are days off, that they are working 12-hour shifts.

HARLOW: OK.

LEMON: They waited overnight for the family to make the announcement before they made the announcement, but they are afraid that there may be unrest, as you have been seeing there recently, but then a bigger unrest as you saw during the Michael Brown incident.

HARLOW: So, I think, Carlos, as they sort out, as investigators do, what happened here, was this shooting justified or not, regardless, a loss of life was tragic, the community, how they react a year -- just about a year after the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson protests that broke out, what do you think we will see in the community and what should the police response be, given what we saw in terms of the reaction to the Michael Brown shooting?

CARLOS WATSON, CEO, OZY: Well, Poppy, at least three things for us to think about.

One, you heard Don say that the -- that the police commanders there are doing a look into it, but really we need an independent investigation as well. And you have seen that called for in a number of cities and I think it's almost certain to be needed here, even beyond the circuit attorney, even beyond the U.S. attorney who is going to do a review. We need an independent review and I think that's going to be critical to win any of community's trust.

I think a second thing is, you saw President Obama earlier this year following Ferguson, but before Baltimore put together a task force to look at how to de-escalate some of these situations. And I think the reality is the president is going to be asked to do yet more. With nearly a dozen of these cases, we're clearly at a crisis. And I think you will see President Obama be asked to step in.

The third thing I think that is interesting is whether or not any presidential candidates will potentially say that this issue is so significant, it clearly is not a one-off, that really I need to put forward a proposal here in the same way that you have seen them weigh in on immigration, on the economy, on other matters as well.

LEMON: I'm surprised, though, that it hasn't come up in a significant way in the campaign and also during the debate.

So I think Carlos is right.

HARLOW: Yes. I think we saw Hillary Clinton addressing it in her meeting with Black Lives Matter.

Don, to you, when you look at police reaction to the protests after the Michael Brown killing in Ferguson and the huge debate over wearing riot gear and those military vehicles pulled out, what can be different and what should be different this time, if we see big protests? LEMON: For this, I think the police response can be different and I

think people there can know that the burning and looting doesn't really solve anything.

Yes, it's important for people to protest. People are angry. And -- but I think it's also important to remember that Black Lives Matter. As you just mentioned, they have made significant headway when it comes to talking to presidential contenders. But the subject of police shootings, I don't think, has come up in a significant way on the campaign trail beyond Black Lives Matter.

But they should realize that there are significant gains being made when it comes to that. Peaceful protests, demonstrations, I think that will -- should be different now and police should not look so militarized. I think that they should at least try to be measured as much as they can in their response.

HARLOW: So much of this comes down to the legality of it, right, the Supreme Court decision over the perceived threat, what was the perceived threat and sort of the witnesses' word vs. the perceived threat, the officer's word.

Carlos, our team was talking about this earlier, saying, what will the reaction be as more and more people see sort of the headline man shot in back, man killed when shot in back vs. waiting to get all of the details?

WATSON: There's no doubt that there's going to be frustration, and certainly as you hear the lawyer for the family dispute the account, you know, here in California, literally just in the last week, Poppy, there was a similar case where a young man was shot in the back.

Police originally said that he was reaching for his gun. Then they walked back that answer and walked back two or three other answers. So enough of these cases are happening that it's hard for any reasonable community to not have some doubt about it. But, as Don said earlier, the idea that violence will end up being the answer is also a difficult one, given that people live in these communities and see that they are not often repaired.

[15:25:08]

Let me throw one or two other things out. You have seen progress in a handful of places over the last decade. Despite some of the recent issues in Cincinnati, for a long time, Cincinnati and Seattle are two of the places where the idea is that police and community have had better relationships.

Part of that is because there's been more transparency, when police have been involved with violence against people. Secondly, you have seen more independent reviews. Third, you have seen more hiring from the community. That's important. And fourth, as you have seen a number of commoners talk about, is the use of technology including police cameras sometimes to allow a greater insight into what actually happened. Certainly, here and another situation of he said/he said, that might be quite valuable. HARLOW: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Poppy, just five seconds, just because we should remember, if you're out there, again, protesting, that's all fine, well and good and it should happen.

But just because a suspect was shot in the back does not mean the suspect was running away. Could mean he was. Doesn't mean he wasn't. Doesn't mean he was. I think you have to wait to see how the investigation turns out.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Important point.

Carlos Watson. Don, thank you as well.

Again, Don will be on tonight 10:00 p.m. Eastern anchoring "CNN TONIGHT." You won't want to miss that.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Coming up next, breaking news from Wall Street. Look at the Dow, that sell-off accelerating and as it closed down 438 points right now, the steepest sell-off of the year by far. Richard Quest, host of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," with me live next. stay with us.

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