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Train Gunman Tackled by Americans Identified; North and South Korea Ongoing Talks; Biden Holds Private Talks with Elizabeth Warren. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired August 22, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:0 0:35] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: 4:00 Eastern, I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. More breaking news.

The gunman that was tackled and hog-tied by three Americans on board a Paris-bound train has just been identified. His name Ayoub el Khazzani who now believe may He may have ties to ISIS. A source telling us here at CNN that authorities have traced his travel movements to Turkey and we have just learned this is where he may have been in contact with French ISIS fighters in Turkey.

The shooter who emerged from the train's bathroom shirtless with a rifle slung over his shoulder was taken down by a British man and three quick-thinking Americans, one a U.S. air force member, another a member of the National Guard.

The bloody aftermath showing one of the Americans on the ground above him. The gunman shirtless and restrained with a necktie around his feet and ankles. President Obama calling the three American heroes personally just a short time ago, thanking them for all that they did and for stopping what could have been a tragic and huge massacre.

Anthony Sadler joins me on the phone. He is the American hero's father. One of the men who took action. Thank you so much for being with me, sir. Tony, can you hear me?

Hi Tony, can you hear me?

ANTHONY SADLER, FATHER: I can.

HARLOW: Thank you so much for being here. I just have to jump in with your son. What an incredible man. Have you heard from him since he did this?

SADLER: We are still dealing with the reality concerning his involvement in this and just the fact he was present there, et cetera.

HARLOW: How did you hear about it?

SADLER: I'm sorry, say again, Poppy?

HARLOW: How did you hear about it? SADLER: Initially, relief that he was not injured or killed and that

the young men that they were with him were not injured seriously or killed. Then disbelief as he began to share with us the events that had taken place. Those were the initial emotional responses.

It's been catch-up ever since, just kind of wrapping our head around the magnitude of this. Of course, parental pride started kicking in. We were proud of him before this and certainly an event like this can make a parent proud. Certainly we are very proud of him.

HARLOW: He is really young, I mean he's just a senior in college. He said "it's my last year in college. I came to see my friends on my first trip in Europe and we stopped a terrorist." Tell me about your son.

SADLER: Anthony is a nice young man. He's very personable, likes people. Very much an extrovert. Loves his friends. Believes in enjoying life and this trip was just an unfolding of his desire to enjoy life and see what he can see and enjoy what he can enjoy.

HARLOW: We understand --

SADLER: Go ahead.

[16:05:05]

HARLOW: We understand that President Obama just called him and the two other Americans who he worked with to bring down this terrorist, called him, thanked him for his bravery, his heroism. We understand he will be going to the Elysses Palace with French President Francois Hollande, right?

SADLER: I know there was plans for something like that, yes. He was excited to talk to our own President Obama as well. He is very excited about that phone call.

HARLOW: I bet. I bet. Do you know when he will be coming home?

SADLER: We don't at this point. The date has not been determined. The plan is that as soon as he has satisfied the authorities' questions concerning the investigation and then his obligations and their obligations to the French government as far as them allowing them time to celebrate them while they are in country, and after which we are going to be looking for making immediate plans for Anthony to return home.

HARLOW: We all have a lot to thank them for, these three men we are seeing on the screen, and a lot to thank you for, for raising such an extraordinary son. Thank you so much, Tony.

SADLER: Thank you.

HARLOW: A lot to talk about here. Also with this gunman again, we have just in the past few moments learned the name of the gunman. Nic Robertson, CNN senior international correspondent joining me live in France. Here with me in New York, Jonathan Gilliam, former Navy S.E.A.L. and former FBI special agent and also a former air marshal. Thank you both for being here.

Nic, let me begin with you. The identity of the gunman, you just learned it.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ayoub el Khazzani. This is a man who was living in Spain in 2004. The Spanish authorities passed information to the French authorities early in 2014, living in Spain 2014, the Spanish authorities passed information to French authorities early 2014 that they have concerns about him, concerns about the people, the radical Islamists who he has been associating with.

Belgian intelligence also had him on their radar as well. He lived for awhile this year we are told in Belgium. He boarded the train in Belgium. A 26-year-old Moroccan in French custody in Paris at the moment. The French have 96 hours to question him but they know a lot about him already.

These concerns that this year in May, he went to Turkey, from Europe. He came back to Europe in July this year so he was in Turkey for two months. The concerns that he may have tried to join ISIS inside Syria but the understanding is that he did make contact with a French ISIS group inside Turkey. This same group, we understand from European sources, have already directed another young Muslim radical in France to try to perpetrate an attack in a church in April this year in Paris. So this ISIS, this French ISIS group connection inside Turkey, a growing concern for authorities here of course because there could be more potential attackers on the loose.

Of course, for the French, that will be one of the avenues they will be questioning Ayoub el Khazzani about right now, Poppy?

HARLOW: Was he tied to anyone else or was he carrying this out on his own. Thank you very much. Nic Robertson live for us there in France.

This evening, Jonathan to you. How big is the concern that ISIS operatives are using Turkey as a base to not send Europeans who have been radicalized on to Syria but rather, to turn them back to go home to carry out attacks in their homeland?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL: That's actually a big thing. You know, what really alarms me is that not just Turkey but there are so many of these areas now that that could happen. I mean, Turkey is a good base for them to do that because it's so close to Syria to where, you know, these operatives are actually being trained and actually getting battle tactics.

They can come back, they can go over the border in Turkey and then give these individuals tasking without really having to train them. You can see now that it takes very little training for a guy to pick up a gun and walk on to a train. The hardest part is getting the weapon on to the train. As we can see on trains that's really not that hard. HARLOW: Right. Because what do you go through in terms of security.

You are also former Navy S.E.A.L., former FBI, former air marshal. You probably had the training closest to what would be needed to take down someone in this position. Talk to us about what a great feat this is. This guy is armed with multiple weapons, huge guns, multiple sort of ammunition packs, if you will.

GILLIAM: We use a term in all these different training called violence of action. Violence of action doesn't mean you are necessarily going out there and just going crazy with violence. What it means is controlled aggression. So in its speed, when you see something like we saw with the air force veteran here, he immediately acted. Your reaction in these cases, if it's an act and instead of sitting back trying to figure out what to do, you are going to be more likely successful in a counter attack.

[16:10:05]

So the fact that he had two other friends that were with him to basically jump on this guy, made this completely successful attack. What worries me, because that's why we work in the air marshals and any type of these law enforcement military agencies, we never try to do these things on our own. You always have partners with you.

What I think the American people and the rest of the world need to realize is that if something like this goes down, if it's on a train, a theater, airplane, and you see somebody act, you need to act with them because the chances --

HARLOW: Don't let them do it alone.

GILLIAM: Yes. Because the chance of them losing that fight and then that attacker furthering their attack is pretty high unless they have somebody with them.

HARLOW: Yes, all right. Amazing heroism.

GILLIAM: Absolutely.

HARLOW: Jonathan, thank you.

GILLIAM: You got it.

HARLOW: As always, I appreciate it.

Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: After two days of threats and counter threats, North and South Korea began talking to one another today. Those talks on a short break right now, but we are coming up on what really has been a historic discussion between the two countries right inside of the demilitarized zone between the two of them.

Kyung Lah joins us right near the DMZ. I understand the talks have taken a break for a moment but they are going to resume in about 10 hours. What does that tell us, that they are coming back to the table?

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The fact that first of all, that they talked for 10 hours, the first round of negotiations went on for 10 hours. They are taking a break now. We are learning this from our affiliate YTN. They are coming back. They are coming back, as you indicated. Presumably they just need to rest for a little while, get something to eat and then they are going to return to the table.

That they are returning is really key here, because that is some hope, that gives us some sign that they have at least you know, a path, a plan forward to try to come back off of the heat on the peninsula and to figure out perhaps something durable and long-lasting.

That is something that South Korea has been looking for. But immediately, we don't know exactly what the content of these negotiations has been. There hasn't been any press briefing. We are only hearing this from our affiliate but that they are returning, Poppy. It is a very good sign. That perhaps there is going to be some movement on this.

HARLOW: You are also dealing with such an unpredictable leader in Kim Jong-un, someone who has ousted 70 members of his inner circle, some by execution. Is this a leader who would back down at all?

LAH: It's hard to say. If anything, the young leader has proven that he is absolutely unpredictable. We don't know. While he and his regime are threatening all-out war for the last two days, we are learning from the presidential office that they were also sending messages to the presidential office asking for this, according to in the regime of Kim Jong-un, in his time, an unprecedented high level military negotiation between the two countries.

I'm just getting word also, Poppy, that we are hearing from the presidential office, they are on a break and they are going to be returning to the table in about 10 hours. This is all very good news.

HARLOW: All right. Indeed, it is good to be talking.

Kyung Lah, thank you very much, reporting right outside of the DMZ there.

Still ahead, will he run or won't he run? The private meeting vice president Joe Biden held in Washington today and what it could mean for the 2016 race.

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[16:20:35]

HARLOW: First on CNN, Vice President Joe Biden makes a surprise trip back to Washington, D.C. for a private talk with Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. The meeting comes amid buzz that Biden is seriously considering a run for the White House in 2016. CNN senior Washington correspondent broke the news. Jeff Zeleny joins me on the phone. Look, you've got Elizabeth Warren, a liberal darling to many, who is not publicly endorsed anyone yet for president. What do you think this meeting means?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (ON THE PHONE): Poppy, it certainly means that Vice President Biden is taking this so seriously and he is really dotting every I's, crossing ever t's as he decides whether he should jump into this democratic presidential campaign.

He requested the meeting today with Senator Elizabeth Warren. He wanted to meet with her. She, of course, is very close to the views of the democratic party, the progressive liberal wing of the party. He wanted to sort of sound her out and feel her out what she's seeing out there. We do not know if he asked for her opinion if he should run for the presidency or not.

But certainly, Poppy, this level of meeting, this type of meeting, just intensifies the discussions and the questions of whether the vice president will actually jump in. We are told he will still make that decision within a month or so.

HARLOW: The polls, interesting Quinnipiac poll out this week shows how well he does, how well Biden does, in some key swing states against Trump.

ZELENY: No question about it. Because Vice President Biden is still very much a honeymoon phase. He's not been out there campaigning, he's not been out in the rough and tumble as Hillary Clinton has been. So of course, his numbers are higher and he has a bit more shine to him. If he would jump in, he's probably a high point right now.

He would certainly be criticized for some of his actions. The democratic primary, of course, it's an attribute to be running for a third term for this president. He would squarely be running for a third Obama term but in a general election, that's very much an open question because of course, the country is very much split on this administration. But right now at this point, you are absolutely right, he's polling higher in some of the key swing states and it's a sign that he would be a very strong challenger, if he would decide to do it.

But again, he is still weighing his options here. This meeting today, the fact that he took a train down to Washington, took time out from his weekend and his family, of course, signifies that it was a pretty important meeting in his mind.

HARLOW: Yes, no question. Let us know when you learn more of what was talked about inside that room.

Jeff Zeleny, thank you. Great reporting.

ZELENY: Will do, Poppy. Thanks.

HARLOW: All right. On the republican side, there are 16 candidates trying to steal some of the spotlight back from front-runner Donald Trump. One of them joins me now, he is the former Virginia governor Jim Gilmore. Thanks for being with me.

JIM GILMORE, FMR. VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Let's begin with this. The new CNN poll has you at the back of the pack with less than one percent support. I know it's early. Donald Trump by far, the front-runner here. What does that tell you about the electorate right now?

GILMORE: Well, not all the polls are showing me in last place. There are a number of polls including some in some states that are showing me as high as in twelfth place. I think we are making progress. What is going on now with Donald Trump in the first place, in my view, is that he's channeling a resentment and anger in the community particularly towards one ethnic group.

I think that's not appropriate. This is not a country that should be dividing people. It should be uniting people. We have seen this politics of division ever since President Obama has been in office. We are the party of Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan believed in adding people together. He believed in adding people to the party and adding people to the community, and that's not the voice we are hearing out of Donald Trump. We are hearing a voice of anger and resentment.

Ronald Reagan said our destinations are more important than our origins. I think this is not worthy of the Republican Party and Reagan's party.

HARLOW: Interesting you bring up Reagan. Because he said that was the last time America was great was under Reagan. Look, he's gotten a lot of attention for calling you for the end of birthright citizenship, essentially changing the 14th amendment. He said it last night at that huge meeting in Alabama.

He said "I have shown you can change it and you can change it quickly." That's still certainly to be seen but in response you tweeted this "Trump's understanding of our constitution has not risen to the third grade level. He is not just wrong. He is dangerously wrong." What would your immigration plan be?

[16:25:08]

GILMORE: Well, first of all, I have a sound immigration plan but it's not one based upon anger and resentment. It's wrong to be say that we should change the 14th amendment of the constitution. It's there precisely to protect the American people, to give them the privileges and immunities of citizenship. It's wrong to talk about focusing on one ethnic group and then trying to take away citizenship.

But I believe that we should control the border, we should eliminate sanctuary cities. Criminals who are on the street from other countries like that ought to be vigorously pursued. But I would say that from a point certain today that anybody that overstays their visa or comes in should be deported. But we should not be trying to get rid of the constitutional right to

birthright citizenship. This is -- how can we lead the world if we are telling people we are going to pick and choose between citizenship in this country? Now, the parents on the other hand who are here illegally, I don't think we can deport everybody, but should be no path to citizenship for an illegal person who is here illegally. They can go home and apply for citizenship to the United States but to enter illegally, but the children should not be punished for this. We should not be trying to fiddle with the constitution and take away birthright citizenship.

HARLOW: This week --

GILMORE: And by the way, a lot of the other candidates are rallying to Trump on this. I think they are wrong, too.

HARLOW: This week, the latter part of the week, just an explosion in the debate over the term anchor baby used by both Donald Trump and Jeb Bush, whether or not it should be used. Some are saying why are you arguing about that rather than focusing on the policy. A, do you believe that is a term that should be used or term that is offensive, and b, is that where we're at with immigration debate, arguing about word choice?

GILMORE: Well, we shouldn't be. Some people may be offended. I can't speak to that. But the point is not that. The point is the practice that they're complaining about are people coming into the country specifically to have children, then use that to leverage themselves into citizenship. I agree that's a bad practice.

Under my plan, you can still keep the constitutional provisions of citizenship which has been exactly what we ought to do, and at the same time, the parents simply are not going to have a path to citizenship so the children are no longer that kind of leverage on that. But the key point is this. We simply cannot have a country that is trying to take away citizenship.

If you look at the history of the world, you see totalitarian governments removing citizenship, abusing citizenship rights, trying to take away citizenship and then abuse people. That's not the greatness of America. That's not what this country is about. That's not the party of Ronald Reagan. That's not the country of Ronald Reagan. And I'm going to oppose it as vigorously as I can.

HARLOW: Let me ask you one more thing, sir. Huge sell-off on Wall Street this week. The economy now squarely in focus for a lot of American voters. Donald Trump mentioned it last night. You're going to see candidates against you like Carly Fiorina playing up their business experience. When you got the stock market down 10 percent, the first correction since the bull market began in 2009, what do you offer on that front for Americans now nervous about the economy?

GILMORE: Well, I'm a former governor of Virginia. I created 250,000 jobs. I cut taxes in my state in order to improve the quality of life of regular people. I have extensive business experience also. I think I'm the candidate of substance and experience. Most importantly, I have already for years now developed a program to grow this economy. That means we are going to simplify the personal tax rates to 10, 15 and 25 percent. We are going to take business activity and combine it and charge it at a tax rate of 15 percent.

We're going to eliminate the death tax. With a few additional tweaks, my economists tell me we can get this economy going again and get the growth rate up which raises wages, which gives people opportunity. That has to be the Republican goal and right now everything that's been going on under the Obama administration is keeping the economy down. It's time to get things moving again and my plan would do that

HARLOW: Former Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore, thank you for being with me. Love to have you back soon. Thank you, sir.

GILMORE: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:36] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

HARLOW: Breaking news into us here at CNN: the gunman who was tackled and restrained by three Americans on board a Paris-bound train has just been named. His name: Ayoub el Khazzani. He was identified by French authorities using DNA matches with records given to them by Spanish authorities.

We are told the gunman may also have ties to ISIS. A source is saying that authorities have traced his travel movements to Turkey, where it is believed he may have been in contact with French ISIS fighters within Turkey. The shooter emerged from the train's bathroom shirtless with a rifle slung over his shoulder. He was taken down by a British man and three quick-thinking Americans who are being hailed as heroes.

Those Americans, an airman from the U.S. Air Force and a National Guardsman and a civilian, all being hailed as heroes today. President Obama called the men to express his gratitude and commended and congratulated them for their courage and quick action. He also wished Airman Stone a full recovery and a speedy one and expressed how proud all Americans are of their extraordinary bravery.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is with me with now.

These are remarkable men. One of them, as you just heard, was injured but has been released from the hospital.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, already, we are hearing from several officials, too, Poppy, the praise is literally just pouring in. Now, we are left to ask ourselves exactly what would have happened if these three men didn't stand up and act.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SANDOVAL (voice-over): That's Spencer Stone, injured on board this French train after he and two fellow Americans stopped a would-be terrorist armed with guns and a box cutter. Stone, a U.S. airman, is credited with leading the charge along with Alek Skarlatos and Anthony Sadler.

ANTHONY SADLER, STUDENT: Really proud of my friend that he just reacted so quickly and so bravely. He was really the first one over there. Even after being injured himself, he went to go help the other man who was bleeding.

SANDOVAL: The three childhood friends were traveling together aboard the high speed train when they sprang into action. Stone bloodied yet determined to stop a massacre from happening. The young man had help from British passenger Chris Norman who used his necktie to hogtie the gunman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have seen enough of these kinds of attacks to understand that they will kill everybody once they get started. I said to myself, OK, maybe I have a chance if I get up and help as well.

[16:35:01] SANDOVAL: Praise now pouring in from all over the world, but no one prouder than the friends' parents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's well within his character. He's a quick thinker. Quick decision maker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep down inside, I felt really, really proud. I told them that. But I didn't tell him as much as I should have. Gosh, I am so proud of both of them, so much. The fact that they saved all those lives and had that instinct and the guts to just do what they did.

SANDOVAL: The three friends left for Europe as tourists and will return to the U.S. as heroes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: That last shot, you see Spencer Stone leaving the hospital now. He continues to recover at this point.

Now, we are also learning more about some other key players in this story. Aside from Spencer here, we also understand that it was initially a French passenger who made that first contact with this gunman. According to the French interior minister, the passenger actually tried to, quote, "overpower" that gunman. When that didn't work, that's when he then fled into the next coach, which is where these three Americans were along with that British citizen, obviously now being hailed heroes.

HARLOW: Yes, getting that call from President Obama today and on Monday, very special visit with the president of France, Francois Hollande.

SANDOVAL: That's right. They continue to meet with the French president on Monday.

The three American citizens as well as that French passenger as well. Then you can only imagine exactly what kind of hero's welcome will be awaiting these guys when they return to the States.

HARLOW: And the British citizen who worked with them as well. A lot of people coming together.

Polo, thank you very much.

SANDOVAL: You bet.

HARLOW: We did hear from the British citizen who we said helped the three Americans. He spoke earlier today from outside a hospital in France. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS NORMAN, TACKLED GUNMAN ON TRAIN: I heard a shot, I heard some glass breaking and then I saw somebody running down the aisle to the front of the train. I was facing towards the back. I then stood up to see what was happening. I saw a man with what I think was an AK- 47.

Anyway, it was some kind of machine gun or sub-machine gun. So, my first reaction was to sit down and hide. Then I heard one guy, an American say, "Go get him". I heard another American say, "Don't do that, buddy," something like that. I think that's what they said.

Then I thought perhaps it was really the only chance was to act as a team and try to take over the terrorist. I suppose he's a terrorist. And so, what I then did is I jumped up and I was actually the fourth person to begin working on the terrorist.

The other person who was there before me was Anthony Sadler, who is the student you. I clarify that Alexander Skarlatos is from the National Guard in the United States and Spencer Stone is from the U.S. Air Force.

Having done that -- sorry?

(INAUDIBLE)

NORMAN: Was I trained for that? No. Not at all. I think it was actually very rapid reasoning, because he had a Kalashnikov, he had a magazine full, I don't know how many magazines he had. And my thought was I'm probably going to die anyway, so let's go.

What else is there to do? Either you sit down and you die or you get up and you die. It was really nothing more than that. I mean, we have seen enough of these kinds of attacks to understand that they will kill everybody once they get started and my point of view was that two guys have already started working, already started tackling him, maybe they needed some help and my -- it was purely survival. I said to myself, OK, maybe I have a chance if I get up and I help as well. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And certainly he did. Survival instinct kicking in there. Thank you to all of them who saved so many people on that train.

Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We turn now to a brutal rape and potential scandal involving Baylor University in Texas. A football player has been sentenced to six months in jail for sexually assaulting a fellow student in 2013. And now questions about what university officials knew and when they knew it have arisen.

Nick Valencia reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sam Ukwuachu sat quietly in a Texas courtroom this week as a jury convicted him of sexual assault. The explanation for the scandal lies partly in his past.

Early 2013, Ukwuachu, a freshman all American defensive end is dismissed from the Boise State football team after a confrontation with a girlfriend. So, in May of that year, he transfers to Baylor University, nearly 1,700 miles away in his home state of Texas. Baylor's head coach Art Briles says he knew nothing of the problems of Ukwuachu's past, an issue that would surface less than five months after his transfer, when Ukwuachu is accused of an on-campus sexual assault against a Baylor soccer player.

ART BRILES, BAYLOR HEAD FOOTBALL COACH: He's off the roster. Never played a down for us. It's very unfortunate situation for all concerned. That's all I have to say about it.

VALENCIA: Baylor University is accused of mishandling the rape scandal. The university did investigate the rape but suspended the case without looking at any of the medical evidence, including the victim's rape kit.

In a statement to the media, Baylor University said quote, "After consideration of the preponderance of evidence, a decision was rendered to move or not move forward to a full disciplinary hearing."

In their investigation, Waco police detectives said there was not enough evidence to make an arrest. They sent the report to prosecutors, who brought the case to a grand jury. He was finally indicted in late June, 2014, eight months after the incident. Speaking to reporters before Friday's practice, Baylor's coach Art Briles said he followed protocol.

[16:45:00] BRILES: I mean, nobody's going to do that. Bring somebody with a prior conviction or even really an allegation, like I said, when we made our decision on knowledge that we had two years ago. VALENCIA (on camera): The accusation against Baylor University comes

down to who knew what and when did they know it. Well, head coach Art Briles said he was not fully aware of the specifics of Ukwuachu's violent past. Over the weekend, the former head of Boise state's former head coach says he fully appraised Briles of Ukwuachu's disciplinary record and dismissal.

Baylor University has launched its open independent investigation it says to find out exactly what happened -- Poppy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Nick, thank you for that reporting.

Coming up next, new signs that Joe Biden is seriously considering a challenge to Hillary Clinton. We will tell you who he is meeting with as he strategizes about a potential run for the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:10] HARLOW: CNN learning in the past few hours that Vice President Joe Biden who was supposed to spend the weekend at home in Delaware, made a surprise trip to Washington to have a private meeting with Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. This comes amid rumors that Biden is seriously considering a run for the White House.

Let's discuss it with retired libertarian radio personality Neil Boortz.

Thanks for being with me.

NEAL BOORTZ, CONSERVATIVE RADIO PERSONALITY: Absolutely, Poppy. Thanks for inviting me.

HARLOW: What do you make of this meeting between Vice President Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren?

BOORTZ: You know, he's got to be licking his chops. Hillary is flopping around out there like a wounded goose and the question is how much longer can she last before she just has to go away? You can't blame him. He's licking his chops. There's a lot of people who were saying get in there, get in there and make a run for it, Joe.

HARLOW: But why talk to Elizabeth Warren?

BOORTZ: Well, because Elizabeth Warren has a huge, said badly, base of support in the Democrat Party. They would have loved for her to run. She has shown no inclination at the present time. So, if Joe Biden can get her support, that would really be a big initial push to a campaign announcement, especially if she were standing on the podium next to him when he announced.

HARLOW: That's true. She hasn't thrown her name behind any of the candidates, at least not yet.

Turning to the issues that are being discussed on the campaign trail, do you think this election so far is focusing on the issues that really matter to most Americans? Do you worry it's getting sidetracked over debates over e-mail servers and verbiage, the debate this week about anchor babies -- not to take anything away from that, but is it focusing on the issues that matter most to Americans and real solutions?

BOORTZ: Oh, no, no, it's not. I mean, the Cato Institute just came out with its index on human freedom. We love to talk about how great it is to live in a free country but according to the Cato Institute index of human freedom, America is number 20. We are number 20 and we can't do any better than that? And a branch of communist China, Hong Kong, is number one? There is an issue we should be discussing.

HARLOW: What is it measure -- what is it measuring?

BOORTZ: Human freedom and it's based on a lot of things, how easy it is to start a business, how easy it is to get a job, how positive you feel about the country you're living in, how strong the economy is, how strong the rule of law and the protection of private property is.

There's many, many indexes there. But the Cato Institute is a very respected think tank --

HARLOW: Right.

BOORTZ: -- in Washington and when they say we're number 20, we need to be listening and a candidate needs to be addressing that.

HARLOW: That's sort of the message that Donald Trump is sending. I know that you are not a Trump supporter. I know you haven't picked your candidate yet. I know it's not going to be a Democrat. I know you like some of the Republican candidates.

But what do you think the rise of Donald Trump and say Bernie Sanders tells us about the electorate right now?

BOORTZ: First of all, both with Bernie Sanders and with Donald Trump, they are as I heard them describe earlier, tidal waves. Tidal waves always recede, almost as fast as they came in.

Donald Trump is a symbol of the completely disrespect, disregard and disgust that the American people, Republicans have with their Republican leadership. John Boehner and Mitch McConnell couldn't draw 2,000 people to a football stadium in Mobile if they were giving away free cars. So, Donald Trump is a symbol. He is not a valid candidate.

And I hope the Republicans learn he is not going to be the candidate. The sooner they let this tidal wave recede, repair the damage and get on with it, the better off we are all going to be.

HARLOW: That tidal wave has been growing and growing for a few months now. Neal Boortz, we will keep watching and talking about it. Thanks for coming on the program.

BOORTZ: My pleasure. Thank you. > HARLOW: Nice to have you on.

Coming up next, the markets -- did you see the markets yesterday? Ouch. The Dow hitting a four-year low. Not good news for your 401(k), your investment. Is this time to get in? What should you do? What does the sell-off mean for you? Alison Kosik with me next.

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[16:58:23] HARLOW: It was by all accounts a traumatic week on Wall Street. Global markets plunging on Friday, the Dow alone losing more than 500 points just in Friday's session. The worst week on the street since 2011.

CNN's Alison Kosik with me now.

Driven by a lot of things, China, what else?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And there is a lot of fear out there, first of all. I mean, the Dow losing over 1,000 points in a matter of days is a little scary. There are a lot of factors at work, as you said.

First of all, China. Wall Street had seen this coming because China's economy has been slowing for awhile now. Here's the problem, though -- China's made great strides to try to prop up its economy, to try to prop up its stocks, its stock market. And it doesn't seem to be working because a big manufacturing report came out on Friday from China, and it shows it's at a six-year low. And that means that what's going on in China, could things really be worse.

So, this is a big deal to the U.S. because China's a big trading partner. A lot of our companies do a lot of business there. So, if China continues to slow, it could be even worse than it's letting on, you are seeing Wall Street really get worried about it. Correction territory, that's what we're in right now. It's not certain if that's going to stick.

HARLOW: For a lot of investors, they look at this and they say, I've got to get out, I've got to get out. But when you're down so far, not the time to get out.

KOSIK: A lot of people say stay where you are, don't panic. And then there are a lot of people who are saying different things about what may happen on Monday. Are you a glass half full or half empty kind of girl?

HARLOW: I'm always half full.

KOSIK: All right.

HARLOW: But I don't have a lot of money in the market.

KOSIK: All right. If you are glass half full kind of person, I have been talking to people like that saying, look, this kind of quick radical movement means it was sort of there to weed out the weak and then the bargain hunters are going to come back in.

This one trader telling me the S&P, a broader indicator of the market, that's yet to hit correction territory, 2 percent to go on that.