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Train Gunman Terrorist; Rivals Fire Back at Trump; Trump Wars with Fox; Dow Rallies After Sell-Off. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 25, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:06] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much.

Great to be with you on this Tuesday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN.

We've got some breaking news right now out of Paris where the gunman who tried to unleash a massacre on that high speed train is now facing charges of attempted murder with terrorist intent. He is Ayoub El Khazzani, tacked, beaten and hog tied by a number of passengers, as you well know, including some Americans. He'd apparently been watching jihadi videos while sitting on the train moments before that attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCOIS MOLINS, FRENCH PROSECUTOR (through translator): Looking at his Internet usage on the phone, that Ayoub El Khazzani was looking at whilst he was on the train on YouTube where on which a jihad - there were jihadi songs and somebody inspiring people to jihadi acts. Therefore, we have decided to open a preliminary investigation to an attempt of murder under the terrorist laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We've got more on the attacker, but first we have more today regarding that French-American who was injured actually helping bring down that attacker. He is Mark Moogalian. He was shot in his neck. He was actually the first on that train to try to wrestle that AK-47 out of the gunman's hands and we can tell you that his condition has apparently worsened.

So let's go straight to Paris for an update on this with my colleague, CNN's Martin Savidge. Also I have with me Bob Baer, CNN intelligence and security analyst and also a former CIA operative.

So, gentlemen, welcome.

And, Martin, to you first, can you give me a quick update on this French-American? What's his condition right now?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's 51 years of age. He's being treated at a hospital two hours north of Paris. I do have better news for you, and that is, we've just had an update from the family and they say that yes his condition did worsen overnight but now they're seeing a slight improvement. And, of course, the family continues to ask for people's thoughts and prayers at this difficult time. They've - they've feared that he might have been forgotten with all the focus that has been on the other heroes. They want to point out, he is very much - as much a hero as any. And, of course, he was the most seriously wounded in the attack, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's say his name again, Mark Moogalian, also heroic there.

Now to this attacker, El Khazzani. Talk to me about more on who he is, these charges he's facing there in France.

SAVIDGE: Yes, the prosecutor came forward today and named the official charges. And you've already sort of gone over them. They are attempted murder, then attempted mass murder. And these come under the sort of specific delineation of under French terrorism law. So that means they're extremely serious. And then on top of that, he's being charged with also being a member of a terrorist organization, although it was not named what organization.

Now, going forward, what the investigators are going to be look at is, all right, where did he travel? Because it appears he sort of moved all over Europe recently. And was that guided or was it just wandering? And then the other thing they want to know is, who may have assisted him along the way. Significantly pointed out by the prosecutor as, here's a man who was allegedly homeless, living in a park days before the attack, yet plunks down 193 euros in cash to buy a first-class ticket, taking him from Brussels to Paris and putting him on that train. How does that happen? So there are a lot of sort of hmms going on in this investigation by the prosecutor's office.

BALDWIN: A lot of hmms. Yes, Martin, thank you. I'm going to get to some of his travels in Europe, Bob, with you in a second. But first, just the news today that we found out that he was there, you know, on the train apparently watching these videos on his phone. These were, you know, YouTube videos of radical jihadists preaching and apparently also singing. What do you read into that, if anything at all?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: It looks like, Brooke, he was self-recruited. Number one, he wasn't very good with a weapon. He never should have put himself in that position on a crowded train, just unwise to do. If you know - if you've been - have any training at all. Two is, that he - he was on the Internet. And if true Islamic state operation was clandestine, you wouldn't have somebody leaving that digital trail at this point.

You know, whether the guy actually made it into Syria at any point or just got to Turkey, I don't think it's been established yet. But clearly i think we're looking at categorizing him as a terrorist and probably a lone wolf.

BALDWIN: Talking to Paul Cruikshank on this, one of our terror analyst, you know, I think some of his reporting was that he had perhaps going in and out of Turkey. I think it was May from July of this year, to your point, did he even get into Syria, who knows. You know, I know one of those American heroes was saying, you know, obviously he didn't know how to use these weapons. But bottom line, we do know that, you know, he was flagged as a risk, flagged in passport control in Belgium, in route to Turkey in May. He was still able, Bob, to get on that plane and fly, again of all places -

BAER: Yes.

BALDWIN: To a country neighboring Syria. How is that possible?

[14:05:05] BAER: Exactly. Where did he get the money? But more than that, where did he get the weapons? Nine magazines. A Kalashnikov. You just don't just don't buy those on the market.

BALDWIN: Where did he get it?

BAER: Somebody supplied it to him. This is a - he may have been self- recruited, but somebody is backing him up in some way, both, as you said, with money and the weapon. It's just really truly impossible to get an automatic weapon. It's not like the United States. You have to have a network to back this up. And I think that's probably what has the French so concerned at this point. Are there other people out there being handed weapons?

BALDWIN: And finding the source, right? Finding the source of potential assistance and giving these weapons. I'm sure they're on it seeking those answers right now, the investigators.

Bob Baer, thank you so much, and Martin Savidge in Paris, I appreciate you both.

Next here on CNN, the - is the truce in serious trouble. Donald Trump ramps up his war of words against Fox News and anchor Megyn Kelley. And now the head of the network, Roger Ailes, is firing back. All of this before Trump takes to the stage in Iowa tonight. We'll talk to Brian Stelter, our senior media correspondent. He's got insider details and where this feud really could go from here.

Plus, are Republicans really starting to punch back now against the GOP front-runner?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a lot of really good talkers running for president. And there's one in particular I'm thinking of.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Come to South Carolina and I'll beat his brains out. I know my state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Who, is this a sign of shifting tactics in the Republican field? We'll discuss.

Also, this is incredible video, people. How to escape from prison? Investigators offer a rare look inside the hidden tunnel system at Clinton Correctional Facility in upstate New York as they retrace those two convicted killers' steps, getting out of prison, even claiming through the same steam pipe they used to freedom. And turn around Tuesday. Will Wall Street's rally hold up after

yesterday's nose-dive? I like all that green on the screen. Will that continue for us? We'll be watching ahead of the closing bell. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:11:21] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You know, the days of Republican hopefuls, presidential hopefuls keeping their peace, waiting for Donald Trump to perhaps crash and burn may be a thing of the past here. You have Jeb Bush and Lindsey Graham, they are both now taking turns, taking shots at Donald Trump. Graham is taking the lead and with good reason. Let me show you this new poll conducted in his home state of South Carolina finds Trump outpacing the field with 30 percent among South Carolina Republicans. Ben Carson, there you see, ranked at number two, quite a bit back, at 15 percent. Jeb Bush at 9. Graham, the states' senior senator, at 4 percent.

Earlier today on CNN, Senator Graham removed the filter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Come to South Carolina and I'll beat his brains out. I know my state. This is a silly season in politics. He is shallow. He's ill prepared to be commander in chief. He doesn't know what he's talking about in terms of how our laws work. He says the worst things possible about immigrants, and women and he's a complete idiot when it comes to Mideast policy. So I think over time commonsense will prevail. He's a showman. He's really good at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So you have that. Then in Colorado, meantime, Jeb Bush also had a couple of choice words for Donald Trump. He was more than subtle than Lindsey Graham, but it was clear who he was talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a talker. I'm a doer. There's a lot of really good talkers running for president and there's one in particular I'm thinking of.

So I appreciate the comment, but I'm 62 years old. When I was 17 years old, I fell in love with Columba Garnica Bush and it's going to be really hard for me to get lectured to by anybody about the politics of immigration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So let's talk about Trump and the increasingly tough responses he's getting now from some of his fellow Republicans. I have MJ Lee here with me on set, CNN politics reporter, and then in Washington, Bob Cusack, editor-in-chief of "The Hill." So, great to have both of you.

And, MJ, let me just turn to you. I mean I was talking to Senator Graham ahead of the interview with Kate and he was saying, listen, Brooke, it's time to really punch back. And to me this seems like chapter two, no more Kumbaya, as if that even existed, but it's like chapter two is the field fighting back.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Right. I mean there is an open war right now against Donald Trump within the Republican field. There's no question about that. And it's fascinating, when Trump first got in the race, you remember, the candidates seemed a little unsure as to how to deal with him, how to respond to him.

BALDWIN: The first debate stage in Cleveland, they were all pretty - pretty positive with one another.

LEE: Pretty positive, yes. And even when, you know, Trump was making, you know, inflammatory comments about John McCain and his time in the war, you sensed that the candidates were, you know, wanting to tread a little lightly, you know, using euphemistic words like, the party should stay together, we shouldn't use divisive language, but hesitant to really go after Trump. Those days are over. I mean we have candidates going out openly and saying, you know, Trump is not great for the party and just willing to really go there because Trump is so much on the attack and not to mention Trump is not someone that the other candidates can ignore anymore because he has been leading the poll for a sustained number of weeks. This is not just a passing moment for Trump. BALDWIN: Yes, I mean, speaking of the polls, Bob, we showed the polls

in Lindsey Graham's home state of South Carolina. So that's something. And, obviously, you know, Trump sort of needling him. Let me read you what Trump said on Twitter to Senator Graham, who, remember, he, you know, told everyone his personal cell phone.

Quote, "congrats, you just got four points in your home state of South Carolina. Far better than zero nationally. You're only 26 points behind me." I mean, yes, he's - he's needling, the, you know, the Lindsey Grahams, the Jeb Bushes, but what do you think Donald Trump is hoping to gain from doing that? Because obviously they are punching back. What's the point here?

[14:15:10] BOB CUSACK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE HILL": Well, in politics, the most effective punch is the counterpunch and Donald Trump is really, really good at that. He seems to be one step ahead of Jeb Bush, Lindsey Graham. He's getting all the media attention. Will it last? Who knows.

But I'll tell you, Brooke, you know, a lot of Republicans that I've talked to said, well, his ceiling's 20, 25. Now we're - now he's in the 30s here in some polls -

BALDWIN: Higher than that.

CUSACK: So that's - that's - yes, more than 30. So - so now that's why, I think in retrospect, Jeb Bush not going after Donald Trump in the first debate might have been a mistake and certainly that's going to change in the second debate. They have to go after this guy because he is solidifying his grip on the lead. We're still in the summer, but we're approaching Labor Day. For Republicans in Washington, a lot of them are getting very nervous.

BALDWIN: Yes, I feel like we're approaching regular season, if you will, to use a sports analogy. And then when you look at Jeb Bush, and especially we took him live speaking in Spanish and English yesterday in McAllen, Texas, MJ, I feel like I'm seeing a much more fiery Jeb Bush, which is what I think a lot of other Republicans have been waiting for this whole time.

LEE: Right.

BALDWIN: Jeb Bush said today, quote, he "doesn't need to be lectured about immigration." You know, we - we can assume he's obviously talking to Donald Trump.

LEE: Right.

BALDWIN: And then it just - this has to be, I imagine, a new strategy for Jeb Bush to really boom, you know?

LEE: Yes. And Trump sort of reminds me of the older brother, who knows exactly how to just get under your skin.

BALDWIN: How to keep on needling.

LEE: Right.

BALDWIN: Totally.

LEE: With Jeb, it's - Jeb Bush, it's, you know, Trump saying that he's not an energetic candidate, that he's not an exciting person.

BALDWIN: He's like, I don't want to read your book. That will be real exciting.

LEE: Exactly. I mean this is an issue that Jeb Bush knows is a problem for him. Similar to someone like Hillary Clinton -

BALDWIN: Yes.

LEE: Who has been around, you know, viewed as a legacy candidate and they want to create this excitement and enthusiasm. So when Trump is going after Bush and saying, you're just not exciting, you're a boring guy, you know that that's getting under his skin. And you go after Bush on an issue like immigration, which is very important to him, that's also going to bother him. You go after Lindsey Graham and how badly he's doing in his home state of South Carolina, that's going to hurt him, too.

BALDWIN: Bob Cusack, thank you so much. Stick around, MJ, because I want to move along. This is another storyline we need to get into.

Politically, today, Donald Trump shaking truce with Fox News, specifically Fox anchor and debate moderator from a couple of weeks ago, Megyn Kelly. You know, it was clearly over. Trump has unloaded a wave of social media attacks on Kelly just in the last 24 hours since she's gotten back from vacation. And even before her show was over last night, Trump tweeted, quote, "I liked 'The Kelly File' much better without Megyn Kelly. Perhaps she could take another 11 day unscheduled vacation." And that doesn't even include some of the other things he retweeted including the word "bimbo."

So, Brian Stelter, CNN's senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources" is with me.

Let me just read, make sure I get this in. Let me read a statement from Fox News President Roger Ailes that he issued just minutes ago. So this is what Mr. Ailes says. Quote, "Donald Trump's surprise and unprovoked attack on Megyn Kelly during her show last night is as unacceptable as it is disturbing. Megyn Kelly represents the very best of American journalism and all of us at Fox News Channel reject the crude and irresponsible attempts to suggest otherwise. Donald Trump rarely apologizes, although in this case he should. We have never been deterred by politicians or anyone else attacking us for doing our job, much less allowed ourselves to be bullied by anyone and we're certainly not going to start now."

So Trump goes after Kelly again. Roger Ailes, a very, you know, huge and important voice is responding here.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BALDWIN: And you just got a response from Donald Trump.

STELTER: It's like a ping-pong match.

BALDWIN: It's ping-pong.

STELTER: It really is. Trump writing a statement right away. He says he's, well, not apologizing. He says he does not think Megyn Kelly is a, quote, "quality journalist." He says, "hopefully in the future I'll be proven wrong and that she'll live up to Fox's standards."

The idea here that he is responding instantaneously goes to show what an unusual situation this is. We're in like this real-time feedback loop. Starting last night, Donald Trump sitting, maybe at home, watching Megyn Kelly's show, starts firing off his nasty tweets against her. Now we've seen a lot of Fox News stars come out in her support. And like you mentioned, most importantly, Roger Ailes coming to her defense as well.

It's been 19 days since the GOP debate. The fact that Trump is still complaining about Megyn Kelly -

BALDWIN: I thought it was over. I thought - I thought there was a truce. We did a whole segment on the truce.

STELTER: I never would have thought. Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: So what - STELTER: Well, the truce is over. I can tell you, Ailes feels that Trump is being disgraceful here. The big question is if Trump's going to be back on Fox any time soon.

BALDWIN: What's in it for Donald Trump?

STELTER: I doubt he will be in the coming days.

What's in it for Trump? Well, I think - I'm just guessing here. I wish I could get into his brain. I think a lot of us which we could psychoanalyze Donald Trump at this point. But I think he sees a lot of the supporters he has online. A lot of his supporters and fans and friends who think he's right. Who think he's in the clear.

It's almost like that filter bubble concept, you know? On FaceBook, all I see is what my friends say. Well, maybe he's only hearing from his supporters and not hearing from his detractors. That's just my guess here, but I'm not sure he's hearing from all the people who think his attacks on Megyn Kelly are going to hurt him.

[14:20:07] LEE: And it's worth pointing out that after the debate in Cleveland, we all thought, is this going to be the moment that really brings down Donald Trump when he made the comments about - the blood comments about Megyn Kelly and -

BALDWIN: Yes. Well, remember the week before it was the breastfeeding bit.

LEE: Right. Right.

STELTER: Right.

BALDWIN: And then it became this.

LEE: And then the polls came out and it did not affect his standing in the polls. So for him, what does he have to lose? If he feels like I have the supporters on my side. It doesn't really matter if I'm going after someone who is as popular as Megyn Kelly, particularly within the conservative community, then what does he have to lose?

BALDWIN: Yes.

STELTER: And, of course, he's driving ahead to tonight. In his statement he says, I'm going to be in Iowa tonight. I'll be live on CNN and other networks. So in some ways it's like he's his own TV producer programing this going on and on and on.

BALDWIN: Bob Cusack, I hear you're still sitting there in the chair and I imagine you're still sort of following all this along and I'm wondering, you know, to your point a beat ago about, you know, so much in politics is about the counterpunch. I'm wondering, one of the reasons perhaps he resonates with so many Americans is because people see Donald Trump as this, you know, successful billionaire businessman who clearly, whether it's Roger Ailes, Fox News Channel, Jeb Bush, this is a guy who's not afraid to pick a fight. CUSACK: Yes, that's right. I am surprised that this fight is once

again on. And certainly Donald Trump is the one. We thought it was done and buried and Donald Trump last night started it again. I could see it as some part of a distraction, but there's got to be a reason why he's doing it. And maybe it's about the headlines. He is dominating all types of coverage in print and on cable and maybe that's the driving force. And taking on the media, I think Megyn Kelly, certainly popular, but the media's never popular. So maybe he thinks it's a win-win.

BALDWIN: OK. Bob Cusack, thank you so much. Brian Stelter, MJ Lee, thank you all. And so the plot thickens.

STELTER: So it thickens indeed (ph).

BALDWIN: Just a reminder, I cannot wait to head to the Reagan Library. This is going to be fascinating in a couple of weeks. The next Republican presidential debate airs CNN September 16th. We will be there.

Coming up next, though, markets, look at the green, bouncing back today after major, major losses yesterday, then Friday. The Dow doing much, much better, up 258 points here, about an hour and a half remaining of this trading day. But still, fears lingering over the Chinese economy. How long will that last? How will that affect you?

And later we will take you inside the maze of tunnels that those two convicted killers in upstate New York used to escape from that prison. Investigators strapping on Go Pro cameras, climbing through the pipe those convicts used to escape. Do not miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:55] BALDWIN: You can call it Tuesday turnaround, just a day after the Dow suffered huge losses left investors feeling a tad jittery, maybe sort of anxious. The Dow bouncing back in a huge, huge way here, up 245 points. That is thanks in large part to China slashing its interest rates. Concerns about China's economic slowdowns sent markets around the world plunging.

So let's bring in our CNN business correspondents, CNN global economic analyst, Rana Foroohar. So she's also the assisting managing editor of "Time."

So less than, what, about an hour and a half to go. I am loving the green on the screen. And I also - yes, we love this.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Yes, keep the green.

BALDWIN: And I read your piece, your piece for "Time," and you point to, you know, how really we haven't all recovered from what happened in 2008.

FOROOHAR: Yes.

BALDWIN: And you talk about how so many governments, not just China, which we talked so much about, with holding our debt and the solution, "create real growth the old-fashioned way."

FOROOHAR: Yes.

BALDWIN: What does that mean?

FOROOHAR: Well, it means actually making stuff and creating jobs and raising wages. And what's interesting about what's happened in China and what happened in the markets in the last couple of days, it's kind of the echoes of 2008.

BALDWIN: Still?

FOROOHAR: Still. You know, at six - it's amazing, you know, eight years on. What happened was, right after 2008, American consumers stopped spending. Well, somebody had to pick up that slack and the somebody was China.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FOROOHAR: So they brewed up this enormous debt bubble of really unprecedented proportions and that's what burst in the last couple of days. That's why the market plunged.

Now there's going to be volatility, though, going forward, in part because people were expecting that with the fed getting ready to raise rates.

BALDWIN: That's what I wanted to ask you about, right?

FOROOHAR: Yes.

BALDWIN: Because now there are these question, well, maybe Janet Yellen will come forward and say, you know what, never mind, I'm going to keep it a goose egg, where - which is where it's been since '08.

FOROOHAR: It's possible. I mean there's going to be an interesting meeting in Jackson Hole of the Fed later in the week. We'll see what comes out of that. But whether or not they go up in September or at the end of the year or even maybe into the beginning of next, they're going up.

BALDWIN: OK.

FOROOHAR: There's only one direction because they've been at record lows. Now, what that's done is it's created a lot of easy money in the system and that's why markets have been so high for so long. So we're really due for some of that. You know, even now you can see, there's a little bit of scattered up and down even with this recovery. We're going to be in for a lot more of that.

BALDWIN: So we've been spoiled, in a sense, for a few years here going like this?

FOROOHAR: Yes. I - I think that's -

BALDWIN: And so now it's like reality check time and you - reading your piece, you had the sort of takeaway at the end about where to sort of keep your investment, which is -

FOROOHAR: Blue chips - U.S. blue chip stocks.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FOROOHAR: The U.S. is still, as you can see from the recovery today, still not a bad place to keep your money. Big U.S. companies are exposed to all the international markets that you need to be a part of but they don't have the volatility of, say, you know, buying into Chinese markets directly or buying emerging market debt. Most of all, strap in your seatbelt and hang tight. This is not the time to be buying and selling wildly. Markets are going to go up and down and be more volatile this year than they were last.

BALDWIN: The correction people were waiting for and -

FOROOHAR: The correction is here.

BALDWIN: The correction is here.

Rana, thank you very much.

FOROOHAR: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Great to have you on.

Coming up here, new photos into CNN of just this absolutely senseless destruction. This is a temple, 2,000 years old, at the hand of the terror group ISIS. What is being done to stop attacks and explosions like this one?

[14:30:05] Plus, we will take you inside the tunnel, the maze in this prison. Two convicts used to escape from that maximum security prison in upstate New York.