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Dr. Drew
Violence Against The Transgender Individuals All Too Common; Transgender Children of Color and the Special Challenges They Face; A Male Who Wants to Have Children Of His Own One Day, Even Though He Was Born Female. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 27, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:11] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Good evening. Now, our entire show tonight will be dedicated to stories from the transgender community. Our
audience here is, by invitation, entirely transgender and they are all welcome.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Violence against the transgender individuals is all too common and for transgender women of color, the statistics are disturbing. So far, just
this year, 13 transgender women have been murdered, 11 were women of color. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Tampa, Florida, July 21st. India Clarke, a 25-year-old transgender women, found shot to death in a park.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THELMA CLARKE, INDIA CLARKE`S MOTHER: Whether it was a hate crime or a love crime or what.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Her body dumped in University Community Park. Two bullet wounds. One in the arm, another in the head. Two days
later, in Fresno, California, K.C. Haggard, a 66-year-old transgender woman, stabbed to death. Her murder captured on surveillance camera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN JOHNSON, ACTION NEWS REPORTER: The victim and whoever is in the car talk for less than a minute and it is what happens next that we cannot show
you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUGIE RUBIO, OWNER OF MOST WANTED TATTOO SHOP THAT CAPTURED THE STABBING OF K.C. HAGGARD ON SURVEILLANCE CAMERA: You see the guy bend over to say
something in his ear, and boom! Strike him with something around the throat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And most recently in Detroit, Amber Monroe, a 20-year-old transgender college student was found dead. She had been
shot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me, Bamby Salcedo, President of TransLatino Coalition; Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com; Mike Catherwood, my LoveLine and KABC
Radio Co-host. He is also host of "Chain Reaction" on GSN. I have Dr. Marci Bowers, an OB/Gyn who specializes in gender reassignment surgery.
And, D`Lo, transgender comedian. Bamby --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Hello, everybody, welcome -- yes, of course. Bambi, this is a topic I do not think gets enough attention. What is it about the transgender
community of color, particularly, they are such objects of violence.
BAMBY SALCEDO, PRESIDENT, TRANSLATIN COALITION: Well, first I want to obviously, you know, recognize and give honor to those trans individuals
who have courage this year. And, also those young transgender nonconforming individuals who have taken their life, because of the
injustices that we survive.
PINSKY: Is there anything about, Vanessa, the African-American Community, you think, they are particularly not well attuned or not understanding on
what is going on?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Goodness.
PINSKY: I am not asking you to speak on behalf of your entire community or something --
BARNETT: Right. Right.
PINSKY: But is there something you sense that maybe is leading to all these their murders?
BARNETT: I cannot. I can never wrap my head around murder. Unfortunately, and maybe this is more of a question, is it -- are the women
that are being killed, are they women that are unfortunately having to work in the industry that puts them on the street and they are more of targets,
maybe?
SALCEDO: Well, I mean, I definitely think that it is important that we understand the structures that we have within our society, that have been
constructed to oppress trans people, right? And, how that translates into trans people getting killed.
PINSKY: That is what we are struggling with. I do not get that connection.
SALCEDO: Well --
PINSKY: And, why is that have to lead to aggression?
SALCEDO: Well, I mean, just the messages that we sent, right? For instance, our government, like, we do not have a federal legislation that
protects trans people, right? And, so what that translates is into messaging for people to think that it is OK to kill us, simply because we
exist; simply because we are human.
BARNETT: It is just pure hatred. I do not think you can ever understand it. I do not think we could have a million conversations and never
understand why someone feels like they can take another person`s life, solely because they do not believe in what they express or what they do or
how they lives their lives. It is disgusting and it is just hatred behavior.
PINSKY: Mike.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, "LOVELINE" AND KABC RADIO CO-HOST AND HOST OF "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: I would think and, you know, of course, again, I do not
want to speak on behave of all Latinos. But, you know, being a Mexican American -- for me, being half Mexican American, too, I get a really unique
perspective and that my white family -- the white side of my family, does not have, even if they are very religious, they do not have the cultural
implications of religion.
Whereas my Mexican family members, religion transcends much more than just their spirituality. It is very engrained within the culture, especially in
Los Angeles, of who they are as people and their religious beliefs are very deep. And, I know for a fact, at least in the people I have talked to,
that, that is what leads to their outward homophobic and anti-trans feeling.
PINSKY: D`Lo, trans men of color, do you experience anything especially problematic?
D`LO TRANSGENDER COMEDIAN: As many men of color are profiled by cops, by you know other authority figures, yes, in that way, a lot of trans men have
to deal with what usually comes around, along with black and brown masculinity.
[21:05:05] PINSKY: Let me get something from the audience. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is driven by discrimination on all levels. If you cannot go out and get a job, if no
one will hire you, you are going to get desperate. You are going to hit the streets.
You are going to deal drugs. You are going to do whatever you can to make a living and to survive. And, so many people are suffering because of
discrimination. It is racial, it is transphobic, and --
PINSKY: So, you are building a case that I think Vanessa, you were asking, which is, is it the discrimination that results in people ending up on the
streets and in situations where their lives are being put at risk?
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: And, you can build a case then that people of color get an added level of discrimination.
BARNETT: Right.
PINSKY: And, that is what D`Lo is saying too.
BARNETT: It is almost double.
PINSKY: Laverne Cox posted on Instagram, quote, "Heartbreaking news, the 12th transwomen of color to be lynched this year, found this morning in
Detroit, Michigan. This murder is so tragic because she was barely 20 years of age."
And, we used the word lynching, which means murder by a mob. It does not mean hanging, necessarily. It is just heartbreaking. Yes, ma`am. Go
ahead.
DIANA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, Diana here. I wanted to address something Vanessa said regarding the industry that woman of --
trans woman of color may be involved in -- might be susceptible to violence. I do not think so.
I think a lot of us who are trans women of color just want to work a regular 9:00 to 5:00. We want to, you know -- we want to provide for our
families. We want to be breadwinners. We want to make an income and make a living. And, just for being who we are, we are constantly at risk of
being killed and being murdered.
BARNETT: Right.
PINSKY: Diane?
BARNETT: On top of the discrimination, you cannot get that job.
DIANA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is a double discrimination.
BARNETT: Exactly.
DIANA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is a double discrimination.
BARNETT: That is horrible.
DIANA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: For me, as a black trans woman of color, it is a double discrimination.
PINSKY: So, discrimination --
CATHERWOOD: It is triple. It is triple, because it is women as well.
DIANA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Exactly.
BARNETT: Right.
PINSKY: So, it is women, black, trans.
DIANA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, I am being discriminated against by women, cisgender woman. Discriminated against for being black
and discriminated against for being trans.
BARNETT: Wow!
PINSKY: All right, guys. Next up, we are going to switch it to another topic. Transgender children of color and the special challenges they face.
Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:07:24] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAVERNE COX, TRANSGENDERACTRESS, HOST OF "LAVERNE COX PRESENTS: THE T-WORD" ON MTV: When someone is trans, it means they identify differently from the
gender they were assigned at birth based on genitalia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYE, 23-YEAR-OLD TRANSGENDER MAN, BROOKLYN: When I was 5 years old, I knew that I was a boy. I did not question it. That is just what I was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVERY, 20-YEAR-OLD TRANSGENDER WOMAN, QUEENS: When I was like 15, I realized that I was so depressed wearing clothes that people expecting me
to wear and how to look and act certain ways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANE, 23-YEAR-OLD TRANSGENDER MAN,BALTIMORE: I started exploring my gender identity when I was about 14. That whole period of time for me, I
was just very depressed. I hated myself, because I felt inherently wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: This is from an MTV documentary about transgender children, narrated by Laverne Cox. And we are talking about what it is like to be
transgender in America, and some of the big issues facing trans people.
Everyone in our studio audience is transgender tonight. I am back with Bamby, Vanessa, Mike, Dr. Bowers, D`Lo. Bamby, when did you begin to
realize you were transgender?
SALCEDO: Well, in my personal case, as just like really -- like many other people. But I do want to say that, you know, I had the opportunity to work
for Children`s Hospital of Los Angeles and working with young people.
And, the same issues that I went through 20 years ago are the same issues that young people are facing today. And, so it is important that we
understand why is it that young people continue to face this injustices within our society.
PINSKY: And D`Lo, did you at a young age realized what was going on?
D`LO: You know, when I was younger, I knew that I was a boy, like a lot of trans children do. I do not think that I had the language, and then there
were all these shows that was showing that anybody, who was trans on it was to be ridiculed.
So, that just kept me back in the closet. And, my family, for sure, had no way of dealing with it, did not know the language, they are fresh
immigrants. So, you know, that is another story. That is another layer.
PINSKY: We have another audience question, if we can grab mic. Yes? Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER MAN: Talking back real quick about black -- trans men of color. There is a young black man who was locked up in a Georgia
prison right because he murdered the man who raped him. Kyle was raped three times by three different men.
And, so that is one thing that they do not talk about when we talk about trans men, not just trans men of color, all trans men. We have a high
sexual violence rate as well. We do not get killed like the women do, but we are in sex work just as well as well as the women are. The only
difference is, they rape us and leave us. They do not kill us. And, I do not know why that is, but that is the reality.
PINSKY: Again, and what I am interested in this conversation tonight, I had not heard that before, and that makes sense on some weird level.
CATHERWOOD: We know, you know, through "Love Line" and that the idea of trans-sexuality has become fetishized by a lot of straight males.
PINSK: Yes. Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Whether it is they are now masturbatory fodder or if they seek it out with sex workers. It has become an incredibly fetishized idea.
PINSKY: A fetish, yes. Vanessa.
BARNETT: And, if they take part it in, are they then afterwards feeling like self-hatred and then take it out on the trans person and then kill --
I just do not know understand how they correlate it.
PINSKY: Well, in terms of what we just heard -- again, the one of the reasons I am anxious to do this show is to uncover things that we really
just do not know. And, I just heard something I did not know, which is that the trans men of color are more likely to be raped. And, that makes
perfect sense.
BARNETT: Oh, I see.
PINSKY: Right? They are not killed. They are just raped. Now, we have Kiki Rodriguez, a transgender actress starring as a prostitute in the new
film "Tangerine." Here is a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ACTOR: Have you seen Cindy?
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: Sin-Dee-Rella. Looks like someone has a crush.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ACTOR: Sin-Dee is back on the block?
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: Oh, yes. She is back. She is back and she is going hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIKI RODRIGUEZ, TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: I got some news to tell you about me and Chester.
[21:15:00] UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: I know what it is! You are breaking up with him.
RODRIGUEZ: Thank God!
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: Going to be cheating on you like that.
RODRIGUEZ: Whoa, whoa, whoa, what?
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: You did not know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Kiki, you spoke with a lot of transgender prostitutes, young prostitutes, preparing for this. What did you find out?
KIKI RODRIGUEZ, TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: I found out that it is kind of the answers will always be rhetorical. It is like, we all have a hard-time
finding jobs, we have a hard time with acceptance, especially being people of color.
PINSKY: Is that how they end up out on the streets. They have so -- it is impossible to find work?
RODRIGUEZ: It is easy to be discriminated against when if you have not had your name changed, and if you have not had certain things changed like your
I.D. It is easy for all that. And, if some people feel like the only option that they have is just to work -- is just work.
And, some people do not even know, they have a lot of services. Some people feel defeated, they do not want to go access services. And, it is
just like when the -- it is like the world is beating you down so much. You sometimes feel like that negativity that you used to is your only
option and it is always not.
PINSKY: Did anything shock you?
RODRIGUEZ: No, nothing is quite shocking because I am trans myself. And so as --
PINSKY: But, for instance, like we have just found out that the transmale are likely to be raped. Was there anything surprising? Anything about the
work they were doing? How did they stay safe? How did they not get killed?
RODRIGUEZ: You know what, it is a risky job.
PINSKY: No kidding.
RODRIGUEZ: And, that is why so many of them end up missing, being gone and being not around and nobody -- sometimes, they did not even care for a
point of time and then all of a sudden, we have -- we would get together, the community gets together and we --
We have to be that way, because like, you know, it is just so -- it is such a hard life to live. And, it is very, very, very -- like, I am proud of
the whole audience, of this show, of people being here today, because nobody knows how hard it is to just to be out and be who you are and people
are just watching you --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: We have another audience comment. Yes, ma`am, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, for me, it is just saying, like, being caught in such a negative situation, it is so hard.
Especially for me being, you know, 20 years old, native American, transgender woman, like, it is -- people have -- it is like another thing
on like color.
They think because I am native American that I get all these like, you know, like, "Oh, you must get money and stuff." So, then, that is where it
is like -- I am like, no! Like the struggle is still real, you know?
CATHERWOOD: When sorrow and punishment and torture becomes normalized --
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: It almost becomes the only thing that you seek out.
PINSKY: Right.
CATHERWOOD: And, it makes a lot of sense that if you live a life where you are discriminated against in such a dramatic fashion, you know, sex work
probably does not seem like too unreasonable on idea.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
SALCEDO: But I also --
CATHERWOOD: Wait. Audience, real quick.
MICHAELA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. I am Michaela. A couple quick points. One is I speak often in schools and institutions like
tolerance on these subjects. And, a lot of these women are finding themselves in these situations because they are thrown out by their
families.
I think we need to back up and think about the family structure and acceptance in the families. Women who -- trans women who -- LBGT in
general, who are on the streets because they were not accepted and thrown out by their families are eight times more likely to commit suicide.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Go ahead.
MICHAELA: The other important fact. The other thing real quickly, I want to share a quick success story. As a privileged white trans woman, I found
-- I have had my struggles too, but I know I am privileged. I own businesses and I find that I am able to hire trans women to work in my
restaurants.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
And, I want to tell you that we just hired another one today. But, it is not about me I am talking about, it is about these women. The customers, I
get more compliments on the trans women that are working in my restaurants, by far, than anybody else who works for me. They are huge success stories
and we need more of that. Thank you.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: There you go. Thank you for that. And, we will continue this conversation. We are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:19:16] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: There are so many transgender youth and adults that are victims of violence, that are beat
up, that are bullied.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZACHARY DRUCKER, TRANSGENDER WOMAN: Violence against trans people is staggering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NINA ARSENAULT, TRANSEXUAL ARTIST, WHO HAD OVER 60 SURGERIES TO BECOME A WOMAN: As transsexuals, we are among the most disenfranchised and
disadvantaged people in culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIS CAYNE, TRANSGENDER ACTRESS: The important thing is for people to realize that what they say when people walk by, the hate that comes out of
their mouth, really, truly affects somebody who is transgender.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back to our special about transgender folks, transgender people, and transgender people of race, specifically. Everyone in our
audience, our studio audience identifies as transgender.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
We are hoping of the most compassion understanding by way of their personal stories. I am back with Bamby, Vanessa, Mike, and Dr. Bowers. And, in the
audience, I have Michelle Enfield, who is native American. Michelle, tell us about your experience. We just heard a little native American then yet
there before you step down. Tell us.
MICHELLE ENFIELD, NATIVE AMERICAN TRANSGENDER WOMAN: Yes. Actually, first, I would like to introduce myself formally. (SPEAKING FOREIGN
LANGUAGE)
So, what I said were, my clan is a Navajo and this is how we are related, much like the last names of the Europeans. And, so, I just wanted to add a
little bit about some of my history, some of my culture, and some of my beliefs, which went were until the infiltration of religion, when
colonization occurred. We did have five genders in my tribe, Nadleeh from the Navajo reservation. And, so, we had the whole spectrum from masculine
to feminine and anywhere in between.
PINSKY: And, given that heritage, were people accepting of your transition?
ENFIELD: Traditionally, historically, yes. But, like I said, with colonization, our beliefs have been changed --
PINSKY: But your experience, what was your experience? Did some people accept? --
ENFIELD: That is my experience.
PINSKY: That it was no good? Not good?
[21:25:00] ENFIELD: So, my experience -- I know the traditional ways and I know the more modern ways. I am very bicultural. And, so, growing up,
there was a conflict because there were generations that really understood the transitions and the beliefs, but then there are other generations that
followed that did not necessarily see it, because of religion.
BARNETT: I think that is -- I want to use the word confusing, but I know there are people that will hear that and will not understand how gender can
be separated into five categories. And, it is not intolerance, but it really is just, you know, we are conditioned to believe, you have a penis,
boy. You have a vagina, girl.
Even at this point, we can almost start to understand -- some people out there can understand, you know, not feeling like you belong to that said
penis or that said vagina, but then to then -- I do not understand how it goes into five different genders. How are those determined and how are
those -- I do not know. I do not even know the right question.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well --
ENFIELD: Vanessa, you brought this up earlier. And, I think the number one cause of violence is because people confuse sexuality with gender.
And, a lot of men are -- when they are attracted to trans women, society does not accept that.
And, so that is why in traditional values and beliefs, there was gender, there was a spectrum. So, a woman who was born with a vagina could go work
as a truck driver.
PINSKY: I want to bring Dr. Bowers in. Yes, so, we have not even really defined transgender. Let us sort of get into the weeds of tthat, if you do
not mind.
DR. BOWERS: Well, let us just look at biology, first of all. And, the fact is, society tries to put us in very clean, neat boxes. They try to
make men from mars, women from Venus, if you will. But, really, we all start out with the same genitalia. In fact, all of us start out female.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
As we know from pregnancy. You cannot tell boy from girl until halfway through pregnancy, because the process of going from female to male is a
process of fusion, where the labioscrotal folds fused in the midline. The clitter has elongates. It becomes a penis. The ovaries drop and become
testicles, and that is the only difference.
And, the fact is in biology, there are a lot of cases where that is incomplete. Intersex. There are a dozen different categories of intersex
conditions where that is not complete. So, you see, there is diversity in genitalia formation. So, it is hardly surprising that in the brain in
gender identity, there is not diversity there. It makes sense.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: I am going to also like to welcome Shemiyia Sweeney. She joins us in the audience with her mother, Sheilla. And Shemiyia, please tell us
about your experience growing up and the impact religions had, please.
SHEMIYIA SWEENEY, TRANSGENDER AFRICAN-AMERICAN: Well, I have always felt like a woman since I was 2 years old. I was 4 years old, trying on my
mother`s panty hose, trying to make them into body suits. But, I was always felt that it was wrong because of the way I was raised.
My mother has been a minister and a musician in the church for over 30 years. And, I grew up in a family of musicians and ministers, and singers
in the church. And I, myself, was a drummer in the church. So, when I experienced discrimination from my pastor, the deacons, the reverends, the
congregation --
PINSKY: Shemiyia, I want to stop you, was that right when you started expressing a desire to be female? Or was --
SHEMIYIA SWEENEY: Yes. Yes. I have never hid who I was. I have always been this way. And, the more --
PINSKY: Did you know what it was, right away? Were you putting words to it or did you --
SHEMIYIA SWEENEY: No, I just know that I felt like a woman. And, I just - - even though I dressed like a boy and lived as boy, I felt like a girl. And, my mother, she was trying to understand it, but --
PINSKY: Let us hear from your mother, Sheilla. How did you manage that?
SHEILLA SWEENEY, SHEMIYIA SWEENEY`S MOTHER: I did not understand it at all. And, I was told by people in the church. I went to people in the
church and said, "What do I do with this?" "What is this about?" And, I was told, "Put her out. First of all, tell her that homosexuality is
wrong."
And, that is what I want to say. Thank you for providing this forum to say, we do not have to debate homosexuality anymore. We do not have to
define anything. All you have to do is do the number two commandment, and that is love your neighbor.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Was that a process for you, or are you right there with it, with your son, now daughter who is experiencing all of this.
SHEILLA SWEENEY: It was a process for me. And, I will tell you, I am a Christian. And, no, Dr. Drew, I am not transgender, but I am the proud
mother of a beautiful transgender woman.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: We agree with you. I have a question Shemiyia about your husband. Apparently, he has had a little more trouble, too. He gets discriminated
against.
SHEMIYIA SWEENEY: Well, my husband is Caucasian. And, the issue with some of his family and friends is not really my transsexuality, it is my race.
It is, basically, just me being African-American.
BARNETT: Wow!
[21:30:00] SHEMIYIA SWEENEY: And, he is from the old school. His parents are from the old school, you know? So, they are not used to seeing him in
a situation like this. So, yes, we deal with that on a regular basis.
PINSKY: Let me -- I just want to put a little finer point on that.
CATHERWOOD: It blows my mind. Unbelievable.
BARNETT: Yes.
PINSKY: Vanessa, you know --
BARNETT: That is surprising.
PINSKY: We need a body cam.
BARNETT: But, I am so happy that you are here, because on previous shows, I have said the same thing. No matter what debate that you want to have,
at the end of the day, God is love. No matter what you think -- how you interpret the bible, God is love, and I have always said that.
And, I think, unfortunately, a lot of times, people look at Christians in a debate like this and they automatically assume that there is hatred there
and there is homophobia and transphobia and there is all those things there.
But, I know a lot of Christians just like you, I was raised in a church. I read my bible. I loved the lord, and I also know that I love people. I
love everybody. And, so, I think it is great to see more people like you that are in the faith.
SHEILLA SWEENEY: And, that is why my story led her to write the play "The Prodigal" that we took to the stage with 30 amazing people that grew up
like I did, in Christian homes, that it is OK to be you, love who you are.
And, it also gave the people who discriminated against me within the church a mirror. And, so, many of them apologized to me after watching this play,
because they knew it was wrong how they treated me.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SHEMIYIA SWEENEY: I want to say, Dr. Drew, that we brought "The Prodigal" to the stage in Louisville, Kentucky. There was 37 crew members and
characters, where we depicted our story on the stage.
The crowd was filled with transgender people of color and in any color. We could not get them to leave the room. They were crying, because of what
they saw. And, I want to address something that you mentioned earlier.
PINSKY: I am going to have you stop. I would love you to stay right there, because I got to take a break. I am going to take that break and I
will let you address that issue when we return.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:36:06] ARSENAULT: How would you feel if tomorrow morning you woke up and when you looked in the mirror, you had the genitals of the opposite
sex?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISIS KING, TRANSGENDER WOMAN: I am African-American. So, in our culture, you know, let alone being gay, being born in the wrong body is something
that is really not heard of until now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEENA ROCERO, TRANSGENDER WOMAN/FASHION MODEL: I am from the Philippines. I grew up in the Philippines. I benefited from the culture that is
culturally visible to be trans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The more you see it, the more you realized that it is normal and that people are born like this. And, it will be easier for the next
generation to come up and tell their parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are talking about the transgender community and race. Everyone in our audience here in Los Angeles is transgender. That tape you just saw
was years ago with me -- I was sitting in for Larry King years ago, when we were beginning to have these conversations, probably ten years ago.
And, we really did -- now it is kind of coming into focus, you know, for folks. I am back with Bamby, Vanessa, Mike, and Dr. Marci Bowers. I want
to let you and I will finish her story. Sheilla, go ahead.
SHEILLA SWEENEY: I want to say to parents, stand for your children. Our black children are dying. Our black transgender children are dying. Stand
for them. My daughter had to attempt suicide to bring me to my senses.
We sit with a friend of hers who was shot in the head at the bedside as she died and her mother asked us, "Why do they hate us so much?" And, after
this child died, not a church in the city would allow her funeral to be held at that church. We had to look for another facility. I am saying,
black lives do matter and black trans lives matter.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: I knew I would be glad I got what Sheilla had to say. Go ahead, Bamby.
SALCEDO: And, you know, I think one of the points that we definitely need to look at is how families of color oftentimes reject their children.
PINSKY: Yes.
SALCEDO: So, if you see the statistics and people who are homeless, who are trans, and who obviously get killed, right? -- are people of color.
And, so, it is important that we obviously take that suggestion, so thank you so much.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes. Well done, Sheilla. Joining me now, Maya Jafer. Did I pronounce that right? Jafer? Maya Jafer, a transgender Bollywood
performer. Did I pronounce your last name correctly?
MAYA JAFER, TRANSGENDER BOLLYWOOD PERFORMER: Yes.
PINSKY: Jafer. Now, you were raised and born in India, right? And, in a strict Muslim household and that must have been a challenge?
JAFER: Yes, I was born and raised in India in a very strict orthodox religious Muslim family. But, now, I am spiritual, which means that I am
accepting of all beliefs or lack thereof.
PINSKY: What was the toughest thing for you in transitioning?
JAFER: Well, I did not come out to my family while I was in India. I had to transition after coming to the United States. And, the reason I did not
come out or transition in India was because my family would be there and that would mean that they would have me killed.
PINSKY: They would have you killed?
BARNETT: Wow.
JAFER: Yes. In the name of Islam, in the name of family honor, because I was dishonoring the family. I would be dishonoring Islam, according to
them.
PINSKY: Are you cut off from your family completely now?
JAFER: Yes, they have disowned me.
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER AUDIENCE MEMBER: Their loss.
PINSKY: Well -- Somebody from the audience said, "Their Loss." That is an awful story. And, talking about it, Bamby, the families creating great,
great trauma.
SALCEDO: Definitely. But, I think it is important to understand that resilience that exists within our community, right? Ashley Hunter said
that every breath a trans person takes is a revolutionary act. So, it is, you know, definitely --
PINSKY: I also have Aidan Aizumi, a Japanese American. Asian culture accepting of trans gender?
AIDEN AIZUMI, TRANSGENDER JAPANESE AMERICAN: That is kind of hard to lump. I guess all Asian --
PINSKY: What are your --
[21:40:00] AIZUMI: I am Japanese.
PINSKY: Japanese. And, how about Japanese Americans?
AIZUMI: I would say probably not. I am really fortunate, I have a really accepting family. My mom is like my biggest supporter. She is out there
actually doing a lot of work to kind of bring more awareness to Asian Pacific Islander communities.
PINSKY: Is that something that she, much like Sheilla, she became sort of convinced of, or was she immediately is supportive.
AIZUMI: My mom was pretty quick to be supportive, but it was a process though for her to come to a place to be more vocal about it.
PINSKY: Interesting. And, any adverse experiences with your peers or any stories of being discriminated against?
AIZUMI: A lot of my discrimination comes just from other like Asian- American or Japanese-American families. It is something that we consider to be very private. Family affairs stay within your family. It is not
something you talk about in public.
PINSKY: So, you get on T.V. and talk about it?
(LAUGHING)
AIZUMI: Right. And, people look at my family and say like, "They should not be talking about this so publicly."
PINSKY: I got it. Thank you very much. Mike, is not some of the problem I have had to deal with in Latino and Latino communities, some of the
machismo culture, you mention the religious culture --
CATHERWOOD: Right.
PINSKY: But also that heavy machismo culture.
CATHERWOOD: Yes -- No. I mean I think that without question, and you starting to see that erode in younger cultures when it comes to how men --
straight men treat straight women. I mean you definitely, the way your grandfather in a Latino community treated his wife or his -- it is
definitely different than modern kind of kid. But I do think that ideas about homosexuality, lesbianism, in the trans community are still -- it is
not a pretty picture amongst the Latino community, from what I have seen.
PINSKY: But evolving. But evolving.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Another audience member?
RAFFY NAVARRO (ph), TRANSGENDER MAN FROM PHILIPPINES: My name is Raffy Navarro. I, as a third generation immigrant in America. --
PINSKY: From where?
NAVARRO: From the Philippines. Yes, I have been here for almost eight years. And, it was kind of strange, because my family are really
conservative. They still bring the conservative religions and also the belief that they have -- from the culture we have.
PINSKY: Have they been accepting of you?
NAVARRO: No. I am still inside a closet, to be honest. And, it is really hard for me, because I just do not know how to express myself. I have to
hide myself inside a closet all the time. How to fit on that. And in order for you to get into that, it is to find your environment, the person
-- the people who will accept you for who you are, that does not -- does not discriminate your personality --
PINSKY: It is deeply emotional to you, I guess?
NAVARRO: Yes. Yes, exactly.
PINSKY: Reasonably so.
PINSKY: I am hoping you will hook up afterwards and then give him some support.
SALCEDO: Definitely.
PINSKY: Because, you know, now it has been on television and I am worried what the consequences will be.
SALCEDO: Yes, definitely. I mean, you know, fortunately, there are not enough, of course, but there are some resources that we can have access to.
And, I am sure, like here, in this beautiful audience, there are so many people we can reach out to.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right. Thank you. Next up, a transgender teen who is trying to make a difference. Back after this
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram feeds. And, tonight, a little
different story, because all of the stories will be pertinent to the transgender community. And, Vanessa, you, first.
BARNETT: I have a great update on one of our past transgender guests. Her name is Jazz Jennings. She was born male. Yes, we love that. But began
living as a female when she entered kindergarten. Dr. Drew, you interviewed her, I think it was four years ago when she was just 11. So,
take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAZZ JENNINGS, 11-YEAR-OLD TRANSGENDER GIRL: Ever since I could express myself, I always knew that I was a girl, and I always referred to myself as
a girl and I played with girl things and it was just who I was inside.
I really just want to share my voice out there and let people understand what it is to be transgender. I wanted to help other transgender people
step out of their shadows and just be who they are and just be themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, very cool. So, she is thriving.
BARNETT: She is thriving and we have more of an update today. Jazz is helping other transgender people. She is 14 now and is starring in a new
docu-series on TLC called "I Am Jazz." We have a little bit of that.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: We have some of that?
BARNETT: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS AT 14 YEARS OLD: At the time that I transitioned, I was like one of the only people transitioning at such a young age. And, it was a little
bit scary for me, because no one else was like me.
(END VIDEO CIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: Sit down. Please sit down, please sit down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: And, to see this little girl in this photo shoot, who is also transitioning, it almost reminds me of a little version of myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: To see her in action, doing her thing, mentoring another transgender kid, it is really beautiful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Look right there, all right? There you go! Beautiful! There you go!
UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: Big smile, sweetheart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That is the one!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Thank you, Vanessa. Very cool.
BARNETT: One little update.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: "I Am Jazz" airs Wednesdays at 10:00 on TLC.
PINSKY: Got that.
BARNETT: I want to make everybody knows that.
PINSKY: Mike, you are up.
CATHERWOOD: One of America`s first transgender soap opera characters is about to marry. And, LBGT advocates are applauding "The Bold and The
Beautiful" for their bold story line. The transgender bride`s name Maya played by non-transgender actress Karla Mosley. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARLA MOSLEY AS MAYA AVANT ON CBS SOAP OPERA, "THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL": Dad?
OBBA BABATUNDE AS JULIUS AVANT IN THE SOAP OPERA, "THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL: Yes?
MOSLEY AS MAYA: I need to ask you again, what I am to you.
BABATUNDE AS JULIUS: I do not think this is the time and place for that.
MOSLEY AS MAYA: I think it is!
BABATUNDE AS JULIUS: I will not be called out. I will not be publicly embarrassed by my own flesh and blood. Now, whatever problems we had is in
the past now. I am here to do my fatherly duties.
MOSLEY AS MAYA: What duty is that?
BABATUDE AS AVANT: To give you away at your wedding.
MOSLEY AS MAYA: You cannot give away something you have already thrown away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:50:00] PINSKY: Ooh!
BARNETT: Yikes!
CATHERWOOD: Damn!
(LAUGHNG)
BARNETT: He is there though. He showed up.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
BARNETT: Geez.
PINSKY: Wow.
BARNETT: My goodness.
PINSKY: Bamby, what have you got?
SALCEDO: Well, my story is about transphobia and the role he play in the recent arrest of black transgender woman from Illinois woman, Megan Taylor.
Megan was visiting in Iowa with another transgender friend and she alleges that they were profiled by hotel staff, who called police and reported,
quote, "Two males dressed as females and possibly prostitution activity."
PINSKY: Oh, boy.
SALCEDO: Megan says, when police learned she was not involved in sex work, they arrested her for carrying a hormone medication without a prescription.
Her top half was patted down by a female officer and her bottom half, a male officer.
Megan also alleges that authorities did not know whether to incarcerate her with males or females. She was ultimately placed in isolation. And, this
is the constant things that are happening to a transgender women. The inhumane treatment that we get when we get arrested, unfortunately.
PINSKY: It has been an issue here in California, with a convicted murder, who is transgender, then treated with traditional therapies, but is
failing, still suicidal, and is now being paid -- the taxpayers are paying for his surgery. So, he can go from male to female and go to a female
prison.
SALCEDO: Well, I mean I think it is important that, you know, we get validated as we are, right? If surgery is something that we need to have,
it is important that we have it.
PINSKY: Vanessa, you were here when we did talk about this story, were not you?
BARNETT: I believe so.
PINSKY: Are you getting your head around a little more? Does it feel a little more sensible, now we have this --
BARNETT: You know, he is a convicted murder. So, I just --
SALCEDO: Well, she is.
BARNETT: She is. She -- Sorry, she is a convicted murderer. So, I think -- can I just -- I just want to finish my point. Not just when it comes to
transgender things, I think as a whole, when we look at the jail system and we look at it as the taxpayers, we are concerned that we are putting a lot
of money into incarcerating all people. And are they all supposed to be there and are there other ways that we can handle incarceration. So, when
we hear that we are --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Bigger topic. Bigger topic for another night.
BARNETT: Yes. I was not just --
(LAUGHING)
DR. BOWERS: You know, if -- just consider this. It is possible that if she had access to health care and had had her surgery long ago, she might
not have committed murder.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BARNETT: Well, we do not know that --
PINSKY: But that has been brought up. That is a viable point and it has been brought up. That is an important point to consider. D`Lo, what you
say? Let us get the light on D`Lo. There you go, go ahead.
D`LO: Just saying that, you know, a lot of our incarcerated brothers and sisters siblings are denied medication that they need, because that is law,
that they get what they need, and this is still another case in point. So, I do not see what the difference is.
PINSKY: Eighth amendment. There we go. Next up, a male who wants to have children of his own one day, even though he was born female. We will get
into it, after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:53:16] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Welcome back to our special about transgender people and race and before we go to my "Click Fix," I want to go out to the audience where
there are still some more questions and comments coming in. Yes, go ahead.
DINA, TRANSGENDER WOMAN, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dr. Drew, my name is Dina.
PINSKY: Yes.
DINA: First, I just want to thank you for having this show.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: No, no, no. Thank you. Thank you guys for helping us. Thank you for educating us. Thank you. Go ahead. Please continue.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
DINA: The reason I thank you is because I think it is very important that society sees that we are normal individuals. That we are not people that
are just out here pretending to be something that we are not. I grew up in a West Indian household. I come from Jamaican heritage.
I grew up with a lot of Christianity in the house, and ideas of transgender that made me feel like I was insane. It was an illness. It took me a long
time to come to terms with it. I understand a lot of the issues and the questions that Vanessa has, because I was -- that was engrained in me
through going to church seven days a week. I grew up Pentecostal.
So, I totally understand where you are coming from in your understanding, because it took me so long to come to terms with it. And, I just want to
applaud Sheilla, the mother of this beautiful transgender woman here, because I do not have that support. And, that is why I want to thank you
for having this show, because it really sheds a light on a very important topic.
PINSKY: You got it. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SALCEDO: And on that line, I also want to say that, you know, Dr. Drew is probably wearing his trans ally button and people should follow his lead,
right? Like, we need to be a good trans allies.
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
PINSKY: Thank you, guys. My "Click Fix" is an 18-year-old male who was born female. He has undergone surgery in hopes of having his own
biological children one day. His name is Cole Carmen. He recently underwent egg retrieval. Physicians harvested egg follicles. The eggs
were frozen.
Cole hopes to have them fertilized when he is ready to become a father. Cole`s fertilization preservation is considered ground making. Doctors who
work with transgender patients say that Cole`s request is among the first nationwide.
So, there you go. Reminder, we are available on SnapChat. Join us there, DrDrewHLN. DVR us and you can watch us anytime. And, again, thank you to
my studio audience. Thank you, Bambi. Thank you panelists. Thank you for watching. We will see you next time.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[22:00:00] END.
END
