Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

New Hampshire Verdict; Funeral Plans Set For Victims Of Virginia Shooting; Clinton Challenges Trump. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 28, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:28] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here we go. Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with me here on this Friday.

A busy afternoon as we're just getting some breaking news out of this trial in New Hampshire. A jury has now returned a mixed verdict. There are multiple counts here that we're going to walk you through but it's a mixed verdict involving the trial of a prep school graduate who's been on trial for rape.

I have Jean Casarez standing by. And I'm just speaking now to the control room. Guys, just let me know if Jean's ready.

I have Danny Cevallos, who has just been seated who can sort of walk us through these different counts.

Danny, I know that the jury deliberated for seven and a half hours. He was accused of nine counts related to this alleged rape. And just a warning for viewers, as we walk through some of these counts and some of these details, if you have kids in the room, some of these counts are pretty graphic in nature, just to explain the value and what's happened here. But tell me about this verdict.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I am not surprised that if he was convicted, he would be convicted of three counts or whatever counts there were of misdemeanor sexual assault. Because the law in New Hampshire can be a little tricky, as with all states when it comes to sexual assault cases. With the misdemeanor sexual assault, it did not matter whether or not there was consent. The mere fact that there was sex, given their ages, would have been a guilty verdict on the misdemeanor. But consent would have been a defense to the aggravated felony charges. So that's why early on the defense was not consent but that we did not have sex. The defense of no sex was the only defense that could have resulted in a not guilty as to each of the charges.

BALDWIN: OK. And I'm looking at Jean Casarez. We're just doing this quickly here and on the fly. I appreciate you sitting down.

Jean Casarez has been all over this. And I've just been handed - it's three - three felony counts, and I want you to explain this with me. Three felony counts of aggravated sex assault, one felony for using online service to lure the accuser, three misdemeanor sex assault charges, another misdemeanor for simple assault, another misdemeanor for endangerment of a child. Bottom line, what does this tell you?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That he was not convicted of the most serious felonies -

BALDWIN: OK.

CASAREZ: The aggravated felonious sexual assault, the ones that can be 20 years per count. Not convicted of that. He was convicted of misdemeanors, but also a second-degree felony, which under New Hampshire law is three and a half to seven years. So this is prison time here -

BALDWIN: It is.

CASAREZ: Barring some unforeseen circumstance, which can happen at sentencing potentially. But this is very serious and you saw his reaction. This is a young man that had been accepted to Harvard.

BALDWIN: I'm being told these are live pictures inside the courtroom, correct? Correct?.

CASAREZ: And he broke down. When that first guilty count was read, he broke down. He sees the severity of this, the seriousness of this. A young man going to divinity school but Harvard University had accepted him -

BALDWIN: Right.

CASAREZ: And now he is a convicted felon.

BALDWIN: Let's back up a half step. Just in case people haven't been following this so closely, this is a case of someone at this extraordinary prestigious school in New Hampshire where apparently it was a tradition to - and I'm using quotes, this is how they spoke, "score" in this "senior salute." See how many young women, in this case if she was a then 15-year-old, he could be with. And so there was - it was ranked, right, somewhere in the school how many young women these men had been with. That was what this was about.

CASAREZ: It was all about that. And, you know, the defense began their closing argument really an assault on the school, that the school became the parents of these kids as they boarded there and the school allowed this to happen. The school was not on trial.

BALDWIN: Sure.

CASAREZ: This one young man right here that you're looking at on your screen was on trial. But I think it's also significant that they found him not guilty of the most serious charges, the aggravated felonious sexual assault, because an element of that was lack of consent. That was an element of the most serious crimes that they found him not guilty of. So that speaks volumes also in the sense of her story.

CEVALLOS: Here's -

BALDWIN: Jump in on that.

CEVALLOS: Yes, here's exactly how a jury might have reached that result, although it feels a little inconsistent. As I said before, the aggravated felonies were not based on the age victim at all because he fell within that four-year safe harbor. The misdemeanor on the other hand, it did not matter. In fact, it can - he fell exactly within the range of years between the victim and the defendant that you could be convicted of the misdemeanor.

[14:05:01] So I was not surprised that the misdemeanor conviction would happen. When it came to those aggravated felonies, though, consent would set that defendant free. So what I'm suspecting may have happened is that the jurors simply couldn't agree or just decided that they - there was some element of consent there that did not merit a felony conviction.

But these are confusing sexual assault laws as they can commonly be in all of the states because there are two defenses involved. There's either no sex or there was sex and it was consensual. And then you have the complexity of the ages which varied so drastically from state to state when you have a young defendant and a young victim.

CASAREZ: So here's the one thing that I think we can definitively say, they believe - this jury believed that there was sex.

BALDWIN: They did believe there was sex because that was certainly in question.

CASAREZ: Because that was an element of the guilty convictions, just as Danny is saying, and his story was that there was not. So they, at least in part, did not believe his testimony.

BALDWIN: Let me jump in because I've just been handed - this is a - now we've gotten a statement from - this is from the rape victim and her family, passed along by the spokesperson. This is just part of a statement. I'm just going to read to you what's been highlighted for me.

"We still feel betrayed that St. Paul School allowed and fostered a toxic culture that left our daughter and other students at risk to sexual violence. We trusted the school to protect her. It failed us. We continue to feel anger and disappointment for the lack of character and integrity that the young men of this school showed." Saying that these young men should bear the shame of these crimes, along with Owen Labrie. And just ending with this, "while we stood together as a family throughout his process, it was our young daughter who took the stand to speak the truth and request justice. We admire her bravery in coming forward and speaking out in the face of great adversity. It is truly her courage that has made this measure of justice possible today."

"Measure of justice possible today," from the victim's family.

CASAREZ: Measure of justice.

BALDWIN: Measure of justice.

CASAREZ: That's - that's a very interesting comment right now.

You know, another charge that was before the jury was simple assault. The unprivileged consent to bite her chest. They found him not guilty on that. And remember there was testimony and he had admitted that he did that. Key word, unprivileged. In other words, she consented. So the jury may have believed that she consented to him doing that. So it really is a divided verdict here, just as Danny is saying.

BALDWIN: So when you were talking.

CASAREZ: They believed bits and pieces of both.

BALDWIN: Oh, man.

So when you were talking about prison time for him, you were saying that could range, what, between three and a half to seven?

CASAREZ: Three and a half to eight -

BALDWIN: Eight.

CASAREZ: Is the class b felony of using a computer to solicit and lure an under aged girl for sexual purposes.

BALDWIN: So can he just turn around and, I mean, presumably appeal what's happened today?

CEVALLOS: Oh, sue.

CASAREZ: And he will (ph).

CEVALLOS: I mean he'll appeal as of - right, he'll file a directed appeal -

BALDWIN: Yes.

CEVALLOS: Undoubtedly based on any number of problems that happened along - during the trial. But, again, that computer enticement. It's not that - again, not a surprise because it's pretty clear that a computer was used. A lot of these -

BALDWIN: This was a face - a Facebook message?

CEVALLOS: Yes.

CASAREZ: An e-mail.

CEVALLOS: And social media. E-mail, Facebook message.

BALDWIN: E-mail.

CEVALLOS: I mean whenever an element is involved that - that - sending anything over the computer, as you see a lot in child sex crimes, those are very easy elements to make out. After all, I mean, the proof is in the electronic pudding. It is right there. All you need to do is get a subpoena for the records. And that element can pretty easily be satisfied. But if that is the only felony that he was convicted of, that tells us, as to the aggravated felonies, which all required - I can't stress this enough - all require the absence of consent and would not - were not based on the age of the victim. That means on some level the jury believed there was some consensual activity.

CASAREZ: Yes.

CEVALLOS: Because if they felt that it was not consensual, you can read the statutes -

BALDWIN: Because of their communication after the fact.

CEVALLOS: Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CEVALLOS: You can read the statute, you can read the language of the statute, the aggravated felonies require the absence of consent. One by surprise, the other was based on, you know, different kinds of sexual contact. But they all had that common element of absent of consent.

CASAREZ: And they were not guilty on those.

BALDWIN: And these jurors, it was a predominantly male jury, was it not?

CASAREZ: Uh-huh. And look at the message that they - this jury is sending, not only to this defendant, but to the school, to St. Paul's in their community, that for generations has had this senior salute and the school, from my understanding, has stayed silent, really, as this has gone on. Now they're going to have to talk about this.

BALDWIN: Well, I'm sure the school - I imagine we'll be handed some sort of statement here from the school in the wake of what's happened. But for now, Jean Casarez, thank you so much. And, Danny Cevallos, here on this case at this really prestigious prep school in New Hampshire. Thank you so much.

Coming up here on CNN, charges dismissed. A major development today out of North Carolina in the case of his white police officer who went on trial for the shooting death of an unarmed black man a week after a jury was deadlocked, led to a mistrial. The state today announcing there will be no re-trial for this police officer, Randall Kerrick. The state attorney general there in North Carolina expected to speak about the decision. We'll have that for you.

[14:10:11] Also ahead here on CNN, we are now learning more about the intentions of a killer who murdered two young journalists live on television this week. Investigators telling CNN that the gunman here did indeed have a getaway plans. Also, new details inside his apartment across the street from the TV station.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We are now learning today a little bit more about the intentions of that killer after he murdered two journalists live on television this week. Investigators telling CNN that Vester Flanagan had a getaway plan in a car, loaded with a gun, extra ammunition, disguises. Flanagan wasn't just driving aimlessly. He had a specific destination in mind before he was caught by police and turned the gun on himself. Although investigators are not exactly saying where they think he was headed, we did heard from the governor of Virginia, Governor Terry McAuliffe, speaking outside the TV station WDBJ just a short time ago.

[14:15:25] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TERRY MCAULIFFE (D), VIRGINIA: As we heard today, there was more ammunition in the car, he had more self-addressed envelopes. So, you know, we clearly can't get into his mind and we can't find out exactly what he was planning to do, but obviously there were some bad intentions and I'm just, you know, just thankful our law enforcement did it in a manner that no other individuals were hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We are also learning Flanagan may have inadvertently helped police pinpoint his geographic location because after killing both Alison Parker and Adam Ward, he sent a friend a text message saying he had, quote, "done something stupid." And that friend may have given police his cell phone number, a possible way to track him.

We also, today, have photographs from inside his apartment. Pretty sparse. A bare bed, stripped of sheets. You see around here, really nothing on the walls. Here's what you do see, a lot of him, a refrigerator plastered with photos from his apparent modeling days, from his days as an on-air person at TV stations. The apparent just blocks away from the offices of our CNN affiliate WDBJ where he once worked.

I can also tell you this today, funeral plans are now set for one of the victims. A service for the cameraman, 27-year-old Adam Ward will be held next Tuesday at the First Baptist Church of Roanoke, Virginia.

So let me go to Pastor Tom McCracken, Community Church, a pastor there in Salem.

Pastor, welcome to you and I am so sorry for the loss there in your community.

PASTOR TOM MCCRACKEN, COMMUNITY CHURCH IN SALEM, VIRGINIA: Thank you, Brooke. I appreciate you having me on today.

BALDWIN: You know, I read about you earlier this week in "The Roanoke Times," you know, describing how you've been leading prayer vigils there outside of the TV station. But I'd love to begin - we haven't heard as much because we haven't heard from the family, and understandably so, they want their privacy, from Adam Ward. And so I just wanted to ask you about Adam. You know, it was his fiance sitting in the control room when he was murdered. And I know you talked to Adam's best friend Katie last night and she had talked to Adam the day before he was killed. What of that conversation would you mind sharing with us, sir? MCCRACKEN : Well, you know, Brooke, as you know, southwest Virginia, a

very close-knit family. Immediately I started getting the calls Wednesday morning and one of those calls was from Katie's dad, who's my cameraman on Saturday morning. And he said, pastor, you know, Katie was his best friend and she's really hurting right now. And, in fact, two years ago I officiated her wedding and Adam was there as an announcer. So this is very close to home.

I reached out to Katie last night, talked with her and I asked her specifically, you know, what is helping you heal through this process? What are you holding onto? And the first thing she told me, Brooke, was prayer. And so, you know, she quoted C.S. Lewis and I asked her if it would be OK if I read this quote. C.S. Lewis said, "I pray because I can't help myself. I pray because I'm helpless. I pray because the need flows out of me all the time, waking and asleep. It does not change God, but prayer changes me." And so I - you know, that's my goal, to come out into this community and with the powerful tool of prayer to offer hope to all those that are hurting today.

BALDWIN: You mentioned, Pastor McCracken, that you met Adam at Katie's wedding. He was the announcer. I hear he was a walking sports encyclopedia. He was a proud Virginia Tech Hokie. What do you remember about him?

MCCRACKEN: Well, really, not much, only that, you know, Katie was talking about him and that, you know, that entire - all the friends of Katie, she actually walked around and introduced me to everybody. And so I was overwhelmed that day. But everybody around was just smiling just like Adam and happy and joyful.

You know, I -- Adam and Alison and Vicki and all these people have close-knits to our congregation. In addition to Adam, you know and Miss Katie and them being best friends, there's a lady in our church that I'm her pastor and her granddaughter dated Adam in high school, and she's just been raving, you know, about what kind of a person Adam was. Katie said he was the personification of Christianity, always happy, always joyful.

So, you know, I think that what my endeavor through all this and my goal through all of this is, is to get the church out of the building. I think when you look at the great commission, first word is go in Matthew 28:16 and I think we've replaced "go" with the word "come." You know, come into our buildings and fed here a sermon. And the buildings are getting bigger, the budgets are getting bigger, the staff is getting bigger. You can read into that if you want, but, you know, I want to get back to "go," and that's what we've done as a church. We have come out to this community and we have ministered and we are bringing the power of prayer.

[14:20:03] Front page news is one of my best friends. His name is Joil Akers (ph), front page. Two years ago he was in the hospital for two months. The doctors gave him a five percent chance to live and was going to just give up on him. We went and we prayed with him. He was first in line Wednesday to pray for all these families because he believes in the power of prayer.

BALDWIN: Pray.

MCCRACKEN: I believe in the power of prayer.

BALDWIN: Pastor, people will be looking to you certainly Sunday morning, speaking of hope. It's a community that will, I know, has already been coming together and will seek out that message from you. Thank you so much, Pastor Tom McCracken.

MCCRACKEN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: And I know so many of you are reaching out wondering how you can help the people in Roanoke, the victims of the tragic murders, Adam Ward, Alison Parker, and so we've created part of our website, go to cnn.com/impact, that's the Impact Your World site, for ways you can help.

Next, Hillary Clinton speaking today saying that Republicans have gone from the party of Lincoln to the party of Trump. This as Donald Trump says his plan is to tax the rich. We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:35] BALDWIN: Now to the race for the White House. Democratic front runner Hillary Clinton is already talking like it could be down to a two-person contest. She spoke moments ago to a crowd there, a friendly crowd. The Democratic National Committee meeting today in Minneapolis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump also insults and dismisses women. And, by the way, just yesterday he attacked me once again and said I didn't have a clue about women's health issues. Really? I mean you can't make this stuff up, folks. Trump actually says he would do a much better job for women than I would. Now, that's a general election debate that's going to be a lot of fun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As Hillary Clinton holds the spotlight, Vice President Joe Biden is definitely, even though he's not physically there, he is feeling some of the attention. He has yet to announce if he wants to run, but the buzz and perhaps also the pressure is building.

Let me bring in our CNN politics reporter MJ Lee in Massachusetts where Donald Trump will be for an event later on today that his campaign will not call a fund-raiser. Also with me, Bob Cusack, editor-in-chief of "The Hill."

So great to have both of you on.

Bob, listen, I don't know if Hillary Clinton actually thinks that it will be Donald Trump in the general election when she says that will be fun, essentially saying debate, bring it, but she definitely is aiming a lot of her arrows lately straight at Donald Trump. BOB CUSACK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE HILL": Yes, and I think that helps

her with the liberal base, which has been wary of her. And certainly the Democratic National Committee is putting out a lot of press releases about Jeb Bush, as well as Trump, but certainly I don't think anyone can predict what's going to happen on the Republican side, it is so unpredictable. But it's very interesting that she's - she's taking him on more directly, using humor. I think that resonates.

BALDWIN: MJ, she also - we've seen a much more contrite Hillary Clinton. You know, we have seen with jokes before with regard to this e-mail debacle and now we're seeing a different Hillary Clinton. She addressed this today as well. Here she was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: It's a little confusing and I certainly understand why for the press and for the public to try to make sense of this, like something wasn't classified in 2009, 2010, that maybe now it should. I'm trying to do a better job of explaining to people what's going on so that there's not all of this, you know, concern and there's some sense made out of the confusion and to answer people's questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: MJ, why do you think the sudden change in tone here? Do you think it's a direct result of how America has been perceiving her and her trustworthiness, as we've seen in polls?

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS & FINANCE REPORTER: Well, Brooke, as you mentioned, she has tried the humor method and it didn't work very well. But when she jokes about how she likes Snapchat because the messages disappear all by themselves, or, you know, when she's asked about the server being wiped, do you mean I'm talking about, you know, a cloth being used to wipe the server? I mean that actually wasn't perceived very well by certainly her critics and some of the other candidates. And I think that the campaign and certainly Clinton herself, they have to understand that even though they keep saying that this is not a serious problem for them, but in terms of the public perception, this has been a problem for her. A new poll that came out this week said that 61 percent of people do not find her to be honest or trustworthy. That is a big problem for her and an obstacle for her and -

BALDWIN: All right, forgive me. We're going to break away from that because now, behind a microphone, we have Andy Parker, the father of slain 24-year-old journalist Alison Parker. Let's take a listen.

[14:29:26] ANDY PARKER, ALISON PARKER'S FATHER: This was, as you all probably know, I've been doing a lot of media here over the last couple of days and it's been - I haven't watched it but I'm sure you have and it's been gut wrenching for me to try and get through anything without breaking down in tears. And today was probably the worst because this was Alison's home. Her home station. And I, you know, met the people that she worked with and the people that really loved her. And it was - it was profoundly difficult for me.