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Interview with State Secretary John Kerry; Obama has Secured Enough Support of Iran Deal. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired September 02, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:43] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Secretary, a lot of attention was paid to the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard this week saying that the United States remains and is the Great Satan no matter whether this deal is approved or not.

But just afterwards I spoke to the powerful head of the Iran parliament Ali Larijani and he said that that was referring to America's past actions and that there may be a more friendly future.

Just take a listen if you would to what he told me about possible better relations with the United States going forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI LARIJANI, IRAN PARLIAMENT SPEAKER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): As I said, if the U.S. chooses to adopt a more realistic approach and attitude towards Iran, then those habits and those terms will naturally change. But I think this agreement can be a beginning for a better understanding on different issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So Mr. Secretary, do you think that this is an agreement that will do that -- have a better understanding and more cooperation on different issues for instance on the Syria war?

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, let me emphasize, Christiane, the agreement is not based on that. There is no expectation nor is the agreement promising that that is what will happen. But obviously the United States of America would welcome an Iran that wants to join the community of nations in more ways than just living up to its obligations under the nonproliferation treaty.

We would like to be able to find a way forward to deal with ISIL, with Daesh. We would like to see a resolution of the conflict in Syria. And there are other issues. But it will be up to Iran to clearly make choices that indicate its readiness to move in that direction.

And in the meantime this agreement is a nuclear agreement, it is focused on the nuclear challenge, and we are not sitting around counting on some other transformation. We can -- it would be welcome, but this agreement is completely separate and focused exclusively on how do we guarantee that there will not be a proliferation of nuclear weapons either through Iran or otherwise.

AMANPOUR: And let me just ask you as I must the terrible crisis engulfing Europe right now -- the flood of refugees, the biggest movement of people since the end of World War II. And the war in Syria is sparking that to a great extent.

We've seen how Germany is being generous to these refugee. We've seen how Hungary and even here in the U.K. governments are not being generous. What would you say to your counterparts in Europe right now.

KERRY: Well, I just met with a ground of my counterparts in Europe and I listened very carefully to them at a conference that we had in Alaska regarding climate change. And we had seven foreign ministers who had come together, six of them from Europe, and they really were seized by this challenge of the migration that is taking place. It's an enormous challenge. It's a very serious issue for all of us.

And we in the State Department are trying to think through various ways to try to make the contribution to solving it. But one of the key things is resolving Syria obviously. And resolving Syria requires cooperation with Russia, Saudi Arabia. We've come together, we had a meeting a few days ago trilateral meeting between Saudi Arabia, Russia and the United States. We're looking at ways to see if it we can find a diplomatic path, a political solution that will have an impact.

But the most critical thing is Assad himself has got to contribute to that and he cannot contribute to it by sitting there and viewing this as a choice about his future and his longevity as the leader of Syria. There is no way to find peaceful track if that is the focus. He is going to have to contribute to the transition that was envisioned in the Geneva process. And that's what we're working towards with other countries at this moment.

AMANPOUR: And Mr. Secretary, ISIS as we've seen has just destroyed a 2,000-yearold edifice in Palmyra and it continues its rampage against human life as well. A huge and important strategy session in Aspen in Colorado recently concluded that the only way to defeat ISIS is through a ground force.

Is there any indication that the United States is moving any closer to gathering some kind of coalition, western, regional or both, to defeat ISIS as you have said it needs to be defeated?

KERRY: Well, it does need to be defeated and it has made that more clear putting its exclamation point on that reality which we all knew anyway. But in the last days with the beheading of the professor who guarded the antiquities as well as with the destruction of the antiquities and its own threats and movements within the region, this is a very dangerous group and we need to increase the pressure on them.

[10:35:05] And we are talking about very specific ways to do that with other countries in the region. You are correct there will need to be people on the ground. I'm convinced there will be at the appropriate moment. And I believe that that pressure will increase and is increasing even as we're talking in many different ways.

AMANPOUR: Well, you've just raised the idea of a ground force. I have to ask you, you're talking about the pressure, you say it will happen, you're convinced. Who will take part? The United States?

KERRY: Well, I think -- no, the President has said that at least for the time being the President made it very clear that American troops are not part of that equation. And I don't think he has any plans to change that. But I do know that there are others who are talking about it, there are people in the region who are capable of that.

And I believe that everybody understands -- there are also people in Syria by the way already who are capable of that and Syrian oppositionists of the regime who are also capable. So I believe that over the next months with our meetings in New York coming up at the United Nations General Assembly and otherwise, this will be very much a topic of conversation. It already is a topic of conversation. And there will be increased focus on ramping up the effort with respect to ISIL.

AMANPOUR: Secretary of State John Kerry -- thank you so much for joining us at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia --

KERRY: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: -- just ahead of your big speech to the American people on this Iran deal. Thanks for joining us.

KERRY: Thank you.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're going to break away.

You were hearing the Secretary of State John Kerry talk a little bit about the Iran deal. And I want to go back just a minute because I want to tell you about this major victory for President Obama concerning the Iranian nuclear deal. Democratic Senator Barbara Mikulski has announced her support for the Iran nuclear deal and that would provide the White House the votes it needs to prevent Republicans from scuttling that agreement.

So let's head to Washington and talk about that for a bit with Sunlen Serfaty. Tell us more.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right -- Carol. Well, Mikulski's support really does ensure that this will become a major foreign policy legacy issue for President Obama and this administration.

The administration had been trying to get to that magic number 34, that's the amount of support they needed enable to potentially sustain a Republican veto override if it did come to that. So they have indeed reached that threshold with Mikulski's support. Out with a statement just moments ago, the Senator saying that no

deal is perfect, but she went on to say that she is supporting this deal because she believes it's the best option available to block Iran from having a nuclear bomb.

Now this comes after yesterday there was a big boost of momentum from two key Democrats also coming out in support of the deal. Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. But it's important to note that in Mikulski's statement today, and with these two other democrats just this week. They really had been trickling this over the finish line, so to speak. That they gave a not so ringing endorsement of the deal. Noting that while they are supporting the deal, they do have some reservations. Here's Senator Coons this morning on "NEW DAY" describing his decision making process.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think this was a very close call. Coming out in support of this deal doesn't change my unwavering support for Israel, for my deep distrust for Iran. The core issue for me here is can we ensure that our vital allies in Europe. The folks who brought this deal to the table and who ratified it. Now the a U.K., France Germany, the E.U. that they will stand us during the whole lifetime of this deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now, Congress will be back from the August recess next week. Supporters of the deal will now try to reach another threshold, basically trying to pick up six more votes. So there is basically a new target here. If they can reach 41 votes, that would basically in essence prevent the resolution of disapproval, let by the Republicans from ever getting an up or down vote on the floor.

So Carol while that is a would new target certainly hitting the first target is a lot of breathing sigh of relief here at the White House likely.

COSTELLO: I bet so. Sunlen Serfaty -- thanks you so much.

Jim Acosta is traveling with the President. AS you know, the President is in Alaska today. So has word reached President Obama -- Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're just waking up here in Anchorage, Alaska -- Carol. But my guess is that, yes, the President is aware of this. We'll be touching base with officials out here in anchorage shortly. But as someone was just saying, is this a major diplomatic victory for the President. Is this the way they want do it? No. Would they like have a majority of members of the senate and house voting in favor of this? Yes.

[10:39:58] But Carol, they know all too well Republicans are just not going to get on board with this Iran nuclear deal. And so all along the threshold has been -- and I've been hearing from White House officials on this for weeks to get above this magic 34 number to sustain a presidential veto and they have gotten to that point. And as Sunlen was saying, they may get enough votes to even

prevent this from coming to the floor of the senate. And that will save the President I guess some measure of embarrassment.

But make no mistake, Carol, this is something that will shape the Obama legacy very much like this trip to Alaska. And when I was talking to Secretary of State John Kerry earlier this week, you heard that interview with Christiane Amanpour. You know, he was saying that this is not based on trust. Trusting the Iranians. This is based on verification.

Well, now that the President has this deal, we're going to find out if this verification works. And whether or not the Iranians engage in a game of cat and mouse. And I suspect the Secretary of State will be addressing some of these concerns in his speech in Philadelphia later on today.

You know, I asked the Secretary earlier this week about him about the notion that at that suspected military site at Parchin, whether the Iranians will essentially be involved in self-inspection, whether they will be collecting the soil samples, handing them over to the IAEA and the IAEA does the analysis. Is that going to be sufficient. And Secretary Kerry said during that interview that they're comfortable with the system that has been put in place.

So we're now all going to find out in real time whether or not this verification process works and to put it bluntly, the Obama presidency, the Obama legacy, is very much riding on whether or not this nuclear agreement is a success in the long run -- Carol. You know, they have really bet the whole house from a foreign policy standpoint on this nuclear agreement -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta reporting live from Anchorage, Alaska this morning.

On the phone with me now, Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling -- welcome, General.

A lot of Americans are worried about this nuclear deal. What's the real story? Because It's so hard to understand who is telling the complete truth and who is not.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's very challenging, Carol. And thank you for having me this morning. But as you know, it's going back and forth. A lot of debate in this. Very tough negotiations by the Secretary of State. It is a desire not only to engage with Iran, but also to reduce their capability. But also to prevent them from doing in the future. All of that is known.

But the question then becomes what do you do if they do continue to build nuclear weapons or have a nuclear capability? And is there a potential to counter that? Yes, there is. There is always the military option. The President has said that repeatedly, that this does not take things off the table but the pursuit of a political requirement was at the forefront of the secretary and the President's minds. And that's what they received. COSTELLO: Of course we have to talk about Israel because I have

a notion Israel will not be pleased.

HERTLING: Yes, they definitely will not. I think they wanted to take a harsher approach because of certainly the worded messages coming out of Iran about especially from some of the spiritual leaders wanting the destruction of Israel.

But again, this is an attempt at looking at a political solution before you go to war. And I think there are a lot of people who had their fingers on a hairline trigger that wanted to attack these facilities, but truthfully from a military perspective, that would have been challenging, as well.

You certainly could have attacked some, Israel could do some of them alone. But with the extent of the capability of Iran, remember Carol, Iran is twice the size of the state of Texas. It has a lot of mountain ranges. It has a lot of hidden facilities. So the potential for opening up for inspection is much greater than attempting to bomb all the facilities throughout that country.

COSTELLO: All right. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling -- thanks so much.

I want to go back to Washington and Sunlen Serfaty. Any word from Republicans as of yet?

SERFATY: No word yet. The big question as of now, Carol, is what Congress will do when they get back from their month-long summer recess from August. The leadership in the House and Senate intend to move on this, but we don't know the deadline. We do know that there is a partial deadline for them on September 17, that's when the statuary deadline where they have to make some sort of movement, but the big question, will be will Senators get to actually cast a vote up or down for this deal.

There are many that are divided over this issue. Notable that Senator Coons from Delaware who came out in support of this deal yesterday he did say that he believes that this deal should get an up or down vote. He said he thinks it's important for senators to go on the record. So that was the next fight.

The administration again needs to secure six more votes, reach that new magic number 41 to get enough support to prevent that from even happening -- Carol.

[10:45:00] COSTELLO: All right. Sunlen Serfaty reporting live from Washington. And again if you're just joining us there has been a major victory for President Obama, this morning.

Democratic Senator Barbara Mikulski -- she's from Maryland. She announced support for the Iran nuclear deal. That provides the White House the votes it needs to prevent Republicans from scuttling this agreement. The announcement needs at least there 34 senators -- the number required by the constitution would uphold a presidential veto of a Republican resolution to disapprove of the deal. Now we haven't gotten reaction quite yet but as you know many,

many Republicans are vehemently against this deal saying it will endanger Israel and ultimately the United States. On the phone right now.

On the phone right, I have David Rothkopf, the CEO and editor of Foreign Policy Magazine. David -- welcome.

DAVID ROTHKOPF: Nice to be here.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. First off just your reaction to President Obama's victory today.

ROTHKOPF: Well, I think the hand writing was on the wall. These votes were there. I didn't think that there was much chance that the opposition would prevail. And I think that everybody starts -- needs to start coming to grips with the fact that this deal is going to be a reality.

COSTELLO: Tell us more about the deal. Because so many people are worried about it. Especially Israel.

ROTHKOPF: Well, look, this is a deal that is going to stop the progress that Iran was making on their nuclear program. Many people prior to this deal felt Iran was months away from a nuclear weapon. At worst we know that they are now a decade or a decade and a half away from a nuclear weapon.

But the secret of the deal and the way it's ultimately going to be measured by history is are we going to enforce it or are the Iranians going to honor it. And so getting a vote, getting the deal through, is just the beginning of what will be a long difficult haul to make this into something that is meaningful and ultimately contributes to the stability of the region.

COSTELLO: All right. David, stick round.

I want to go to Philadelphia and check in with Elise Labott. She covers the State Department for CNN. Secretary John Kerry was just talking to Christiane Amanpour. He must be relieved today.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the word he used was "delighted". And, you know, he said we were getting messages that Senator Mikulski signed off on the deal and he said to me you know what that means, that means 34. And so obviously a very good day.

But officials even coming up here said they're not taking any vote for granted. Just because Senators and Congressmen say they're going to vote for the deal, we still don't know what's going to happen when they actually cast their vote. So they said they will be fighting for every vote.

And what the Secretary wants to do, you've heard him do many interviews with myself, with Jim Sciutto, with Christian, with many people Jake Tapper, with many. Why is he coming here today? And so what he's saying is he wants to layout some of the - correct some of what he calls misperception or myth about this deal, particularly about the fear that this could allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon even while the deal is going on because of the inspections regime.

Basically what I think he's going to is to say there is no way that Iran will be able to master all the elements of a fuel cycle and develop a nuclear weapon outside of international inspections and kind of lay out the science of the deal. And hoping that the American people will see that this is the kind of deal that will be safe for America and safe for the world.

COSTELLO: All right. Stand by. I want to bring in Peter Beinart, he's a CNN political commentator. Peter are you there.

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

COSTELLO: So Peter a lot of people are nervous about this deal. John Kerry is about to make this big speech. A lot of people are wondering why not just continue to choke off Iran financially and sit back and enjoy its weakness so to speak.

BEINART: I think the problem with that argument is that the rest of the world which has a lot of money at stake in doing business with Iran was not going to keep sanctions on Iran indefinitely. A lot of countries in Asia rely on Iranian oil. They have been reducing their purchases of Iranian oil as part of a strategy to bring pressure on Iran to come to a deal. But if the U.S. Basically blew up that deal, then I think what the British ambassador had said what the Germans have said. What others have said if that sanctions would start to erode anyway. So then you have the worst of all worlds which is that Iran gets the money flow to go them anyway and we have no restrictions on their nuclear program.

COSTELLO: And I think Americans forget that there are other countries involved in this deal. It's not just the United States.

BEINART: Right. In fact the reason that we were able to apply pressure on Iran was precisely because we got other countries to buy into the sanctions. Especially other countries that have a history of stronger economic ties to Iran than we do. We know historically that sanctions don't work when just imposed by one country.

[10:50:05] And that's why the idea that the U.S. could walk away and increase our own sanctions and then make Iran cut a better deal. I think is a fantasy. Because even if the U.S. imposed greater sanctions. What the Chinese would do, what the South Koreans, what the Indians or what the German and the French will do would actually do is to reduce the pressure on Iran to make a deal because Iran would be starting to have more have more economic interaction with those countries and actually we would have less leverage to make a better deal, not more leverage. .

COSTELLO: All right. Back to Elise Labott. I have a question about Israel because of course, Iran and Israel are in the same neighborhood. What do you suppose Benjamin Netanyahu's next step will be? LABOTT: Well, I think it's going to be about trying to convince

congress to keep up the financial pressure on Iran whether it's sanctions, whether it's other measures. I will say that this morning Secretary Kerry sent a letter to all lawmakers on Capitol Hill specifically addressing Israel and their concerns about Israeli security and the security of U.S. Gulf allies and what they're proposing is try and engage in talks in a new ten year memorandum of understanding the administration is with Israel on increased military aid, on increased military cooperations. Specifically to try and thwart other destabilizing activity by Iran.

So while they do feel that this deal will stop Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon, I don't think they have any illusions about Iran stopping its other type of terrorist activity and its activity against Israel. And I think that's what they will focus on. So clearly Israel is in their sights right now as lawmakers debate this deal and take their vote.

COSTELLO: All right. I want to go back to Washington and Sunlen Serfaty. Surely this Iran nuclear deal and this -- I mean I won't say approval, but its' ultimate approval for lack of a better term, Sunlen will play into presidential politics.

SERFATY: Reporter absolutely. And it should be noted that all the Republican candidates running or against this deal and that has -- interesting intersection with this debate and a lot of the drama around this nomination as well.

You know, the administration should not be understated how much political capital does the President, that Secretary Kerry and all the members of the administration has really invested into getting this through. We heard anecdotally for members of Congress -- President Obama reaching out directly writing personal letters to them. Trying to answer point by point, concerns that they had.

President Obama making the case to grassroot reporters over the August recess, it could have been treacherous territory for them, the administration being worried that similar to the healthcare town halls of years past when there is a vocal -- supporters in that crowd. Letting their Congressman know how they felt about it. They were worried that would happen here and we just didn't see that in these sort of August recesses.

But nonetheless the administration is sending out President Obama earlier in August on a conference call, he warned about the really large scale and well-funded grass roots campaign against this deal. And he said people should stand up and make their opinions heard.

So certainly the administration, this is definitely a major win for the administration, but the fight is not over. Just one sigh of relief and they promise they will continue to persuade members of Congress as they try to inch closer to another better threshold for them.

COSTELLO: All right. Sunlen Serfaty, reporting live from Washington -- many thanks. Secretary of State John Kerry expected to speak in Philadelphia in just about ten minutes.

I have to take a break. I'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:57:52]COSTELLO: All right. We're just moments away from Secretary of State John Kerry taking that podium. And he's going to talk about the Iranian nuclear deal and how it can actually make the Middle East a safer place.

Let's go to Philadelphia and check in with Elise Labott. What will the Secretary of State say?

LABOTT: Well, you know, you know he's being introduced, who flew up with him with Senator Dick Luger who was really a champion of November proliferation and also served as chairman of senate foreign relations committee.

Really what the secretary wants to do today is layout what he's saying are some of the myths or misconceptions of the deal. First and foremost that Iran will be able to cheat -- will be able to cheat inspections and develop a nuclear weapon in secret. He's going to layout the science of why that's not possible. He's going to talk about what the administration is prepared to do to beef up the security of Israel and gulf allies to stop some of Iran's other destabilizing activity in the region, terrorism.

They have no illusions that this deal while they feel it will stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, that Iran isn't going to change its stripes. So basically laying out the science of the deal, the strengths of the deal and why this is the only alternative because if Congress rejects this deal and it doesn't look like they will be able to, but if they would, not only the security, but the influence and credibility of the United States will be damaged around the world.

COSTELLO: All right. Elise Labott -- thanks so much. I want to go to a Congressman Dan Kildee, a Democrat from Michigan. He is in favor of this deal. So make Americans feel better about this, Congressman.

REP. DAN KILDEE (D), MICHIGAN: What this deal does, it gives the United States and rest of the world a chance for diplomatic solutions to what otherwise could be a very dangerous situation going forward. That being Iran being able to develop a nuclear weapon.

This deal prevents that. And for the critics who are concerned about Iran --

COSTELLO: All right. We have a bad connection. I apologize, Congressman. I wish we had a better connection but the Secretary of State will speak momentarily -- right at the top of the hour.

[11:00:08] So I will say goodbye. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me today.