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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Search Expands For Suspects in Cop Killing; Source: New Video Shows Man Charged At Officer With Knife. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired September 2, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:12] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, the manhunt widens. The search for the three men suspected of shooting and killing an Illinois police officer expanding tonight. How did they escape the massive manhunt?
Plus, there's a second video of the shooting death of a Texas man by police. But does the video answer whether the man was surrendering or threatening to attack?
And Donald Trump telling Jeb Bush to set an example by speaking English in the U.S. What's behind their vicious back and forth battles and who is winning? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Pamela Brown in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the manhunt expands. The search for three men wanted in the shooting death of Illinois Police Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz now stretching across the region. One hundred investigators, more than 40 search dogs, helicopters equipped with heat censors, and multiple law enforcement agencies are in a desperate search for two white men and one black man. Their races were the only description Officer Gliniewicz gave dispatch before he was killed. Now, off to the officers, Gliniewicz' coworkers and police officers across the region volunteering to join the manhunt on their own time. But as investigators follow up on more than 100 tips from the public, police say that's the most important element in their search.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE FILENKO, LAKE COUNTY MAJOR CRIME TASK FORCE COMMANDER: As always, we're relying on the public. All it takes is one tip or good lead to break a case wide open.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: This as we are learning details about the last moments of Officer Gliniewicz's life. The officer just weeks from retirement was driving to work when he pulled over to pursue three men on foot. He called headquarters to say he spotted three suspicious people. Just 17 minutes later, his fellow officers found him dead. And right now, take a look. We're looking at live pictures of a vigil being held for Officer Gliniewicz not far from where he was killed.
Ryan Young is at that vigil tonight. Ryan, where do things stand with the investigation and with this manhunt? RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know all those people
are still standing behind us who are supporting this family. We know more than 100 investigators out there searching. In fact, we talked to several people today who told us they want to intensify the search and then glad that people are calling tips in. Because they want the public to be involved in this. And we do know they might have found some surveillance video out there that they are analyzing. But if you look at this crowd right now, just look at it as it is started. You can see hundreds of people who have gathered here in this community who wanted to pay their respects to this officer.
YOUNG (voice-over): The all-out search for three accused cop killers is shifting and expanding. Dozens of officers and K-9 units no longer going door to door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The perimeter was pulled last night at approximately 10:30 as the individuals were not located within that perimeter after being extensively checked.
YOUNG: Now searching by boat and by air, the view of Fox Lake and the complexity of the search area becoming a bit clearer. We remain just outside the two-mile no-fly zone.
(on camera): You get a great idea of how this community is a mix. You have commercial areas. You have residential areas. You have the marsh lakes and lakes. But there are plenty of places to hide. A lot of homes right against the woods. So, if you were trying to escape or you're trying to hide, there are plenty of places for to you sneak into.
(voice-over): More than 100 investigators are hunting for the killers. And tonight, we're learning more about Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz last moments. The 30-year veteran was on his way to work Tuesday morning when he spotted three suspicious men, two white and one black and decided to stop and investigate.
FILENKO: If you are driving down a roadway that has nothing but open fields, possibly abandoned businesses and you see three individuals there that have no reason for being there, it would be a fundamental police procedure to stop and at least question them as to why they are there.
YOUNG: Minutes later, he radios for backup and pursued the suspects on foot. Dispatch reveals Gliniewicz was shot by the time other officers arrived.
DISPATCHER: Assist officer down. The two subjects were male white and male black running towards the swamp. Officer wasn't answering. I just checked.
YOUNG: Less than 20 minutes after Gliniewicz first call, dozens of officers were on the scene. But his killers had vanished. DISPATCHER: All Lake County units responding to officer down.
Fox Lake subjects are to be considered armed and dangerous.
YOUNG: Now, a community on edge as it mourns a beloved officer, husband and father of four.
MAYOR DONNY SCHMIT, FOX LAKE, ILLINOIS: Not only did Fox Lake lose a family member, I lost a very dear friend.
[19:05:04] YOUNG: And you can see the impact right now. In fact, people have pulled up in their boats. This is a boating community. There's a big weekend headed this way. So many people will be coming back to their homes that they haven't been in for such a long time. But you can see how neighbors have pretty much stuck together. The mayor is actually on stage right now talking about a man he considered a friend, an officer who he said gave back to this community. In fact, we know the widow of Gliniewicz is out here in the crowd right now with her four sons. And obviously, this is a touching memorial for him. You heard they just said, we love you, Joe. So, Pamela, this is obviously a tough moment for this community. But they are really coming together. We see officers from all around the state here as well.
BROWN: Yes. An incredible outpouring. And just to think he was just weeks away from retiring. Ryan Young, thank you so much.
And right now, investigators are processing the evidence collected at the crime scene looking for any clues to help identify the suspected killers.
Our Deborah Feyerick is OUTFRONT tonight. So, Deborah, what are police saying about what they have been able to recover from the crime scene?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, what we know so far is that there are four distinct areas that authorities hope will provide evidence to help them identify Lieutenant Gliniewicz's killer or killers. The first is the crime scene itself. That was processed yesterday. Evidence technicians going through and carefully looking for DNA and finger prints. Anything that could potentially give them an indication of who turned and fired on this police officer. The second, the autopsy itself. Usually autopsies will yield or provide some sort of forensic evidence that could potentially be helpful. You have also got leads, a lot of leads that are pouring in. Many of them on social media.
And the commander of the major crimes task force said, all it takes is the one lead to break this case wide open. Now, if these three men are part of some criminal underworld, you better believe that authorities are putting a lot of pressure right now on any source to tell what they know or what they are hearing if, in fact, these men were part of all of that. The fourth area, video. And there's a lot of video. You have got video from businesses, from gas stations as well as home security. So authorities are looking at all of that. And you know, this is so personal to so many of the investigators that are there, Pamela. Many knew this lieutenant. And they say he is the kind of guy that he had no problem knowing that he was retiring still a true professional chasing after these three individuals thinking that perhaps they were involved in some sort of suspicious activity. So, they are really shaking the leaves on this one -- Pam.
BROWN: Chasing after them while he was on his way to work. Deborah Feyerick, thank you so much. We appreciate it.
And OUTFRONT, John Cuff, former U.S. marshal. Ron Hosko, president of the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund. John, we just heard from Deborah that they are pouring over video, tips coming in. Yet all authorities have said about these three suspects is really their race, these two white men, one black man. At the same time, they're saying we are relying on the public's health. But the fact that they haven't released more info about this suspect, does that tell you that they don't have anything more on them?
JOHN CUFF, FORMER U.S. MARSHAL, HEADED NORTHEAST FUGITIVE INVESTIGATIONS: Not really. I mean, it's a decision that they're making on the strategy on the investigation. As far as the race, I mean, if the people -- the public can call in anything suspicious, anything anybody that might have fit that bill, two white male and a black male. Maybe they saw them yesterday or the day before or they were acting suspicious maybe, maybe afterwards. But I wouldn't read too much into that. Protect the integrity in the investigation are going to keep things close to the vest and that's understandable.
BROWN: Protect the integrity. But Ron, wouldn't it be helpful for them, I mean, more than 24 hours after this killing, to have the public come in and help them identify these three men?
RON HOSKO, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIVISION: Well, they are clearly looking for the public to help them. The public is frequently the best source of tips and clues on a case like this. But John is right, to protect the integrity of the investigation, sometimes you want to guard, particularly the details of how this officer was shot, where he was shot, to make sure that tipsters are giving you good information and they're not giving you misleading information to see how it lines up.
BROWN: So, you believe they could know the identities, but they're holding that information back for reasons like that?
HOSKO: Right. I think this could go one of two ways. One is they have hot leads that are pointing them to the identity and they're setting up surveillance. They're already on surveillance. Or the other end of it could be just that 17-minute gap before other responders got there and identified the downed officer as a victim, that gives these three people plenty of time to get out of the area, to change clothes, to be long gone. And maybe they don't have very much information at all.
[19:10:02] BROWN: Yes. And presumably, they didn't have an escape plan assuming that this happened just off the cuff. But that's -- he makes a good point. Seventeen minutes, they could be long gone. That's enough to get out of that two-mile radius where they set up the manhunt. Right?
CUFF: Well, that's a good point. Planned or unplanned. This thing doesn't appear that this was a planned thing. The officer pulled up on them. We don't know that for a fact. But so after the shooting, after the incident, they scrambled. The first thing on any of this manhunt, you have to identify who you are looking for. So, that's what's going on right now in this investigation. What you saw was the grid search that was going on. Now you have -- you had the investigation going on which includes not only the crime scene, evidence that will be developed at the crime scene but also videotapes and so on at nearby commercial establishments, things like that. You have another situation here too. You have three suspects. Okay. These people talk. They talk to one another. It's fair to say speculate, they may have talked to someone else. Loose lips sink ships. You got sources out here that may know something. So, that's the importance of this 400-plus law enforcement canvassing these areas to develop information and develop that source and see what shakes out of the trees.
BROWN: So source information obviously very important. Also, Ron, cell towers I imagine are very important, too. We know that there were a number in that area, one right near the crime scene. How will that help investigators identify these gunmen?
HOSKO: Right. Law enforcement will absolutely be doing what's known as a cell tower dump to try to pull numbers and identifiers off of those towers and find out who was in the area, what subscriber information is there and walking back those who were legitimately in the area, that there's a good reason for them to have been there during this -- the key times and those that might have been passing through or fled immediately after and peeling those layers back to understand who was there, who wasn't there. You know, there's another important aspect of this. There are three people that are -- that law enforcement are looking for. That's an opportunity for law enforcement to divide and concur. It's an opportunity for those who did not pull the trigger on this officer to come forward and make their best deal right now. They're looking for the first person in the door.
BROWN: Hmm. And we know tonight the investigation, the search expanding. John Cuff, Ron Hosko, thank you so much.
HOSKO: Thank you.
CUFF: Happy to be with you.
BROWN: OUTFRONT tonight, police were on the scene of that deadly shooting within minutes. And soon hundreds more were on the hunt. How did these suspects escape?
Plus, new questions about the death of a Texas man shot by police. Some say he was surrendering. What does a second video reveal about the shooting?
And Donald Trump saying, Jeb Bush should only speak English. It's the latest in the ongoing war of words between the two. Can Bush hold his own in this fight?
[19:16:11] BROWN: Tonight, police expanding their search for the three men suspected of killing an Illinois police officer. Officials say they are receiving tips from all over the country. But so far, no sign of the three suspects. And complicating matters, this area is within driving distance of Chicago and Milwaukee. Plus, some of the terrain will be very difficult for officials to navigate.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT for us tonight. So, Tom, tell us, what does it look like there? It seems like there are any number of ways these suspects could have escaped.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, police radio suggests this whole incident occurred near this intersection in an industrial area. And it took only two minutes for some officers to respond when they thought something was wrong. So, where would they be now 36 hours later? First possibility, there's still in the area. Remember, this is a community bounded on several sides by water. There are a lot of houses, plenty of places where they might hide whether they stay together or split up. Second possibility, maybe they obtained a vehicle and drove out. Now, if it was a boat, for example, they have a problem -- they don't have a problem. Because look, this is our target area right down here. If you get on a boat, you can move through all sorts of lakes and rivers up here, about 500 miles of coastline, ten different lakes. It's a heavily trafficked area by recreational boaters. One boat more or less would not stand out.
If it's a matter of them driving a car, that's a different matter. Because then look at this as you mentioned a moments ago. Yes, Milwaukee is up here, about an hour and a half away. Chicago, down here, about an hour and a half away. Major metropolitan areas in which they could hide out. And links to major highways all through here that would lead to plenty of other smaller places that they could easily join in. So, Pam, all sorts of ways they could get out moving along the ground.
BROWN: Yes. And it's been more than 24 hours since the shooting. Tom, how far do you think they could have gotten?
FOREMAN: Well, if they went to an airplane, then you are talking about really far. Take a look at this. These are three major airports right in this area, midway here. General Mitchell up here. And there are other smaller air strips. Here is a challenge though, something they have to bear in mind that some of your guests have been hinting at here when you talk about tracking. If you try to buy something like this or rent a car or do something and you don't have the right I.D. or you don't have a lot of cash, you are almost certainly going to have to use a credit card. Every time you do that, there's going to be some kind of tracking about where you were.
If you drive on one of those roads and you go through any kind of a toll road or any sort of a metering device, there's a chance there will be a photograph of your vehicle and the license plate. And if you go to a restaurant, if you go to a bank, if you go to a store, anything where you make any kind of a purchase, there's a chance you are captured on security camera. So, all of that forms a net around all of those means of transportation. And that complicates the idea of fleeing, even though you might think they could just get in a car and go -- Pam.
BROWN: I'm sure investigators are looking at everything. Tom Foreman, thank you so much.
And of course, a big question now, what will officials have to do to track down the suspects? If other recent manhunts are any guide, it won't be easy.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trying to solve a case without a clear description of the culprits like in Fox Lake, Illinois where three men are wanted for the fatal shooting of Officer Joe Gliniewicz is one of the toughest parts of detective work.
MATTHEW FOGG, FORMER CHIEF DEPUTY, U.S. MARSHAL: (INAUDIBLE) Once that went away, they don't have anything to go on.
CARROLL: History shows even when clues are left behind, the search can still be challenging. Take the case of Christopher Dorner, a former police officer who killed four people, two of them police officers in Southern California in February 2013. He left behind a manifesto declaring war on police. It took several days but eventually searchers spotted a man matching his description committing a carjacking. After a chase, Dorner died in a standoff with police at a remote mountain cabin. It took months longer to find Eric Frein, the man who police say killed a Pennsylvania State trooper last September.
It was unclear who fired the fatal shots, but police identified Frein after finding his jeep in a wooded area. It still took nearly seven weeks to find him, hiding at this abandoned hangar. He was taken into custody and has pleaded not guilty. Most recently, the massive manhunt for two escaped inmates from the Clinton Correctional Facility in Upstate, New York. Searchers knew exactly who they were looking for, Richard Matt and David Sweat. Yet it still took more than three weeks before one was killed, the other captured. In the case of Fox Lake, two factors could end up being key to catching their suspects.
JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Luck and public. It's a random cop who happens to be, you know, doing a patrol and roll up on somebody and then often it's just the public. The public says, wait, you know, I think I saw something that night.
CARROLL: Another factor that could help find these killer, sources. Law enforcement will lean on everyone they know in the criminal community for leads. Searching for these types of suspects takes on special significance for law enforcement. It's one of their own. Finding them is not just a matter of public, it's also personal.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
[19:21:28] BROWN: And OUTFRONT tonight, former NYPD Detective Sergeant Joe Giacalone. Thanks for being here with us, Joe. So, authorities have set up this two mile radius grid search yesterday. Today, they say we're expanding the search. But should they have started out wider and then worked their way in instead?
JOE GIACALONE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE SERGEANT: Well, it might look that way. But, you know, what happens is they are dealing with a small amount of information. And they just cast their net as far as they thought it could be, you know, within that general area. Because it was such a marshy area. Maybe these guys couldn't have gotten so far.
BROWN: Because it does make you wonder that the officer was found 17 minutes after. That's enough time to get out of that radius if you really wanted too. It has been nearly 36 hours since the shooting. Now that the first crucial day is over, how much harder from here on out will it be to capture these suspects?
GIACALONE: Like everything else. The longer this goes, the more difficult it's going to be. You know, the planes, trains, busses, cabs and everything like that. Now, boats you have to add it to all that too. You have a small department that's not being back filled by other agencies. And people off duty. I mean, they're not going to stop until they find something in it. And hopefully, they can find something that's discarded that can actually lead them to who the killers were.
BROWN: So, we were watching Jason's piece about all these other manhunts. What lessons can be learned from past manhunts like the one recently, the prison break in Upstate New York?
GIACALONE: Right. One thing that law enforcement has learned is that not everybody is on the ground. They were hiding in tree stands and stuff like that. And, you know, it's a vacation spot. They might deer hunting stuff like that. So, you have to be able to look for that.
BROWN: Is there anything else you think that can be learned from past manhunts?
GIACALONE: Sure. I mean, it's Labor Day weekend, we had a lot of people coming up to their vacation homes where we might find out some information about, you know, break-ins and stuff like which might help us lead to, you know, a DNA hit like we saw in Dannemora, that help us out and, you know, solve this case.
BROWN: There is a break in in a cabin there as well.
BROWN: Thank you so much Joe Giacalone.
GIACALONE: Thanks for having me.
BROWN: And OUTFRONT next, new video of a shooting by Sheriff's deputies in Texas. Did the suspect have his hands up in surrender or was he threatening police.
And Donald Trump telling a bilingual Jeb Bush he should set an example by speaking English while in the U.S. Has Trump finally gone too far? We'll be right back.
[19:27:29] BROWN: Breaking news. New details on the second video of the deadly shooting of a San Antonio man by sheriff's deputies. A source telling CNN tonight that this new video, which has not yet been released to the public, shows suspect Gilbert Flores charging at officers with a knife at one point, shoving chairs at them and acting, quote, "wildly aggressive." The initial video which was released publically appears to show Flores with his hands up when deputies fired. We have to warn our viewers, some of this video is disturbing.
Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT tonight from San Antonio. Ed?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video has been called disturbing and troubling. Gilbert Flores is seen moving around the front yard of a San Antonio house for roughly 15 minutes. Two sheriff's deputies are engaged with Flores. Then you see the 41-year- old man put up his arms and deputies shoot. Flores collapses to the ground.
SHERIFF SUSAN PAMERLEAU, BEXAR COUNTY, TEXAS: There's no doubt that what's shown in that video is of great concern to all of us. But we also want to get this right. As is our purpose in every investigative case.
LAVANDERA: Investigators say, there is a second video much clearer and closer capturing the altercation last Friday. The video hasn't been released. But a source with knowledge of the investigation says the video shot by a neighbor shows the suspect acting wildly aggressive and at one point charging at a deputy with a knife. According to the Bexar County sheriff, the video is being analyzed to determine if Flores was holding a knife.
PAMERLEAU: It appears that he has something in his hand. And again, that's why we've asked the Texas DPS crime lab to review it with an aim to try to enlarge and to slow down that sequence so we have a better idea of that.
LAVANDERA: Authorities would not say if a knife, however, was recovered at the scene. But police radio traffic references a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are talking to the subject now. He is outside talking to them. And he has a knife in his hand.
LAVANDERA: Dispatchers also warned the deputies about the suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks like the male that called it in assaulted his wife and child. So, possibly two patients. And he is also threatening suicide. He's threatening suicide by cops so make sure you stage on this.
LAVANDERA: Investigators say, one of the deputies tried to use his taser to subdue Flores. But the taser probes did not hit the target.
MICHAEL THOMAS, WITNESS: I might as well record it if I'm going to watch it. Just in a case some does --
LAVANDERA: Michael Thomas is a delivery driver who took this video of the shooting.
THOMAS: And they kind of just put his hands down. They were talking back and forth. And then he put his hands down again. Then he stepped back and just put his hands up and they shot him twice after that.
LAVANDERA: Prominent San Antonio Congressman Joaquin Castro is calling on the sheriff's department to release the second video immediately.
REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D), TEXAS: The sheriff's office and the D.A., and the FBI have their investigation to do. But it has been several days since the incident. There have been leaks about what's in the second video. The sheriff has commented on the evidence in the second video. I think it should be released.
LAVANDERA: The source also tells us that on that video you can see Gilbert Flores yelling loudly. But it's hard to make out what he is saying. The source says there's a voice on the video asking whether or not floor he is Flores is trying to get himself killed. It doesn't sound like it's a police officer at the scene. That video has not been released, as we mentioned and it's not clear when it will be released -- Pamela.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.
OUTFRONT tonight is Bexar County district attorney Nicholas LaHood.
Thank you so much for being here with us. We appreciate it.
You have seen this second video. Could you tell us what's in it?
NICHOLAS "NICO" LAHOOD, BEXAR COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Yes, ma'am. I have seen it. What I can say about the video, since there's an ongoing
investigation, I don't want to compromise that, it gives us a different angle and a closer view of the incident which is very helpful in evaluating next steps once the investigation comes to our office.
BROWN: So, you say it provides clarity. Can you tell us the distance? It's presumably closer to the actual encounter than the first video, correct? Can you give us more details on that?
LAHOOD: It's hard to tell distance from a video. My opinion is it's closer than the one from the angle that I think everyone has seen. You can see clearly what's going on between the officer and Mr. Flores -- the deputies, excuse me, and Mr. Flores. That's good for all determination on what to do next or not to do next.
BROWN: So, could you just tell us what he was doing with this knife, whether he was threatening the deputies?
LAHOOD: I have seen the video a number of times but not as many as the sheriff's office has. It's very obvious or has been told to us that at different points of the incident, that Mr. Flores had a knife in his hand. For me to make a determination of whether he had a knife in his hand is one thing and then was the officer -- the deputies in this case in imminent, immediate danger at the time that they decided to shoot and release -- shoot their firearms.
So, that's -- all that is going to be determined once the investigation is turned over to us. And we got to spend time with the evidence. Right now, we haven't considered all the evidence. There's evidence that I believe the sheriff's office is gathering. And then once that happens, they're going to turn it over to us and we'll spend time with it.
BROWN: So, you said it was told to you it was the case. Does that mean it wasn't readily apparent in the video that he was holding a knife?
LAHOOD: Again, I'm not going to comment on the video. What we have known and we've been told and heard through agencies is that there was a knife involved at different points of the incident. So, ultimately, what we have to do is take a snapshot of time. We're going to look at a snapshot of time of when the deputies decided to use deadly force.
Was it appropriate under Texas law? That's going to be our analysis.
BROWN: D.A. LaHood, I understand you have a job do and there's this investigation. But you have this one video that's out there that shows one perspective. So, public opinion is being formed from this one video. Isn't it only fair, don't you have an obligation to provide more information on this second video, if, in fact, it provides more clarity and helps the officers' case in this?
LAHOOD: I'm not trying to help out the officer or not. My job is to do justice. And the fairness that I need to make sure the end result is fair.
BROWN: Right. But it's balanced, though.
LAHOOD: In my opinion, the first video should not have been released.
BROWN: It's not helping out the officers as much as it is just providing the balance and being fair to the officers.
LAHOOD: My fairness needs to be in the conclusion in how this case is handled.
Right now, this is not the trial. This is -- we're in the court of public opinion. Our job is to deal with the court of law and also the evidence and whether we should go forward.
So, I'm really laser focused on the end result and conclusion and making sure that we hold our oath, which is to seek justice.
BROWN: OK. Nicholas LaHood, thank you very much. We do appreciate it.
LAHOOD: Thank you, ma'am.
BROWN: To discuss, let's bring in criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Paul Callan.
Paul, what do you make of the fact he's not releasing the second video?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm really shocked. At a time when there's suspicious of law enforcement in the United States in the use of excessive force, why not be transparent? Why not release as much information as possible to the public so that they know a fair investigation is being done?
Dashcam camera film is released all the time by police departments.
[19:35:03] And I think this district attorney is playing by the old rule book. I think times have changed. Video has changed those times.
BROWN: So, parsing his words, he says at different times he was holding a knife. How do you read into that?
CALLAN: Well, I'll tell you. My read was he was careful in saying, sources have said at different times he was holding a knife. That says to me that this video maybe does not clearly demonstrate he was holding a knife.
Frankly, when you go back to the first video, the problem is, even if he was holding the knife, he stopped. He is not moving forward aggressively toward the police. So, there doesn't seem to be an active threat to the police posed. And he mentioned that under Texas law, we have to take a snapshot in time. And what the D.A. was saying there is that the officers have to
be threatened at the moment they use deadly physical force, not what happened previously.
BROWN: There's still a lot to learn, obviously. But some have raised that question, why didn't they just back up, call for more help?
But again I think the second video would answer a lot of questions as the D.A. said. It provides clarity.
Thank you so much, Paul Callan.
OUTFRONT up next, Trump and Bush going toe to toe every day it seems, online and on the stump. Is the strategy backfiring on Bush?
And does the bitterness between the two candidates stem from when then-Governor Jeb Bush blocked Trump from building a casino? We have a report.
[19:40:28] BROWN: Breaking news: Donald Trump ratcheting up his rhetoric against Jeb Bush. And tonight's attack is very personal. Donald Trump telling the conservative Breitbart news site that Bush, quote, "should really set the example by speaking English while in the United States."
Just yesterday on the campaign trail, Bush took a jab at Trump in Spanish, the language he says he speaks at home with his Mexican-born wife.
Dana Bash has the very latest on this growing feud.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not a guy who's a conservative.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jeb Bush has stepped up strategy to go hard after Donald Trump turned tongue in cheek, a quiz released on social media asking questions aimed at what Bush aides say underscores the contrast between Trump and Bush, like, would you rather support a candidate who said they were, quote, "very pro-choice" or was a strongly pro-life governor and defunded Planned Parenthood?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Go in and vote. Go in and vote.
BASH: In a rare personal jab from Jeb to Trump, known to be exceeding fearful of germs. Would you rather support a candidate who strives to shake every hand everywhere or is a germaphobe when it comes to shaking hands?
Trump who calls himself a counter-puncher did just that. TRUMP: He's a very low energy kind of guy and he had to do
BASH: All this as a new ABC News/"Washington Post" poll shows both men suffering in the popularity department -- 59 percent, nearly six in 10, have an unfavorable view of Trump, and Jeb Bush isn't doing much better with 55 percent.
Trump made waves from day one with comments about Mexican illegal immigrants and despite saying this --
TRUMP: I will win the Hispanic vote. I think I will win it very easily.
BASH: He has a big problem with Hispanic voters. A whopping 82 percent have an unfavorable view of him.
Jeb Bush speaks fluent Spanish and even used it to attack Trump this week.
His favorability rating is some 30 points higher than Trump among Hispanics, who are almost equally divided about Bush.
Today, Trump played to his base by saying bush should really set the example by speaking English while in the United States. A Bush aide shot back that Trump is trying to kill the party by attacking any American who is bilingual.
Still, it's Trump's popularity with conservative primary voters his opponents are most worried about.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Once people find out his position, I think they will be sort of fleeing with their hair on fire. They're going to say, oh my goodness, he's not really what he said he was. He's not really a conservative.
BASH: The Republican national committee made a very unusual move late today, one that appears to be based in fear that Donald Trump is not a committed Republican and could end up running as a third party candidate if he doesn't get the nomination.
Pamela, the RNC issued a pledge to all the Republican presidential candidates asking them to sign it and send it back promising that they will back the eventual Republican nominee and not run as a independent. And, Pam, Donald Trump has refused to make those promises. His spokeswoman told me that they have no comment on whether they got this pledge request from the RNC today.
BROWN: A lot of people putting pressure on him to make that decision soon. Thank you so much, Dana Bash.
OUTFRONT tonight, CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger.
Thank you for coming on, Gloria. Of course, the first question is, we have heard Trump say a lot. Of course, he is saying tonight bush should only talk in English in the U.S.
Has he gone too far this time?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, there are lots of times over the course of the summer where we have all said, hasn't he gone too far. Is this going to be it? Hasn't he gone too far?
And the answer is, no. Because Donald Trump knows exactly what he is doing here. As Dana was pointing out, he is playing to his conservative base. We can just state flatly that Donald Trump is not going to win with Hispanic voters. He's got an 82 percent unfavorable ratings with Hispanic voters. But the voters he is doing well with are the white conservative base of the Republican Party. And by saying is that Bush ought to speak English, you know, they say, yes, he should. He is playing into his group of supporters.
BROWN: And something else Trump said was that Bush is attacking him, quote, "because he had no choice."
What do you think, is that true?
BORGER: Well, I do. I think it's true. Actually, I think bush probably should have started attacking him earlier. But early on in this race, everybody thought that Donald Trump was going to implode, and he didn't.
[19:45:02] And Bush sees himself in single digits, for example, in Iowa. So what he is doing as other candidates are doing is they're attacking Trump from the right, saying, he is not conservative.
And what Bush is trying to do is bolster his own conservative credentials while pointing out that Donald Trump actually is not a conservative. And the longer this race goes on, you are going to see more and more Republican candidates doing it. The ones who have done it so far haven't gotten anywhere.
But Jeb Bush may be a different cat. He may be able to make this work for him.
BROWN: That's the question. But, so far, Trump has been the Teflon candidate.
BORGER: You bet.
BROWN: Thank you so much, Gloria Borger.
And OUTFRONT up next, Donald Trump supported Bush Sr. but called his son the worst president ever. A look at the history behind the current Trump-Bush feud.
And this man is fishing, but not with the rod and reel, he hooked his catch with a drone. Jeanne Moos has the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:50:28] BROWN: Tonight, the feud between Donald Trump and Jeb
Bush is reaching new heights. But things haven't always been so contentious between the two Republican candidates. In fact, Trump once supported Bush, as well as Bush's father and brother.
Alexandra Field has tonight's money and power.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump and Jeb Bush now famously feuding.
BUSH: I'm a proven conservative with a record. He isn't.
TRUMP: This guy can't negotiate without of a paper bag.
FIELD: But the two weren't always rivals. Trump once called Jeb "a good man", "exactly the kind of political leader this country need now and will very much need in the future."
Even before that, he had donated to the former Florida governor's campaigns, holding a lavish fund raiser in 1997 at Trump Tower, and donating $50,000 to the Florida Republican Party.
The businessman now calls it more of a business move.
TRUMP: I give to everybody. When they call, I give. You know what? When I need something from them, two years later, three years later, I call them. They are there for me.
FIELD: But the gamble didn't entirely pay off. Governor Bush who opposed all forms of casino gambling effectively blocked Trump's plans to build a multimillion dollar casino in Florida with the Seminole tribe.
It wasn't the only time Trump tried to use his cash to cozy up to Bush clan. The former owner of the New York City's Plaza Hotel also hosted a fundraiser for George H.W. Bush. He told Bloomberg News he voted for Bush 42 in '92, and for son George W. eight years later.
ROGER STONE, FORMER POLITICAL ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: Donald Trump split with the Bushes over policy issues. Meaning he was unhappy with George H.W. Bush breaking his pledge not to raise taxes. He was unhappy with George W. Bush marching us off to what appears to be totally unnecessary and unjustified war.
FIELD: The relationship soured. His donations done with Trump suggesting he'd take on W. as independent in the 2004 election. But he never did enter the race. By 2007, Trump called him the worst president ever. He recently highlighted the time an Iraqi threw a shoe at the president.
TRUMP: Well, that may have been his best moment if you want to know the truth, which is pretty sad to say.
FIELD: Now, Jeb is fighting back. BUSH: It's all personal for him, sure, mischaracterizations of
my views, longstanding views.
FIELD: Slamming Trump at almost every campaign stop.
BUSH: If you look at his record of what he believes, he supports Democrats. While I was campaigning for Republicans in this state and all across the country, conservative, or reform-minded candidates, he was supporting Hillary Clinton.
FIELD: Bush and Trump have been battling it out on everything from campaign style to substantive issues, everything from immigration to women's health and now as you heard it there, Hillary Clinton. Bush underscoring the fact that Trump has previously made financial contributions to Clinton, and then Trump releasing a video suggesting it is the Bushes and Clinton whose have a history of getting too close -- Pamela.
BROWN: Alexandra Field, thanks so much.
And OUTFRONT next, the man who is giving new meaning to the term fly-fishing. You don't want to miss it.
[19:58:02] BROWN: Well, the future of fishing may mean never having to go near water again.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Forget that old-fashioned rod. You may get hooked on a new way to fish.
DEREK KLINGENBERG, FARMER: Hey, guys, farmer Derek here. I am going to try fishing with my drone. This is my first attempt.
MOOS: Don't disturb the fish.
KLINGENBERG: I was just messing around.
MOOS: Kansas farmer Derek Klingenberg is known for his odd ball farm videos, playing jingle bells on a trombone to his cattle, or creating cow art by strategically dropping feed so the cows form a smiley face when captured on his drone cam.
This time what he was trying to catch were fish. The first one got away. Within ten minutes --
KLINGENBERG: Yeah! Whoo!
MOOS: He hooked a blue gill with plastic worm.
Now, if the fish were much bigger, you could end up like in "Jaws".
But the little blue gill was no monster jaws. Like the shark in the video. That left two Australian morning show hosts dumbfounded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am never going back in the water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me either.
MOOS: The blue gill did end up going back in the water.
KLINGENBERG: My first drone fish.
MOOS: Not before Derek documented his catch by taking a selfie.
KLINGENBERG: Or a fishie.
MOOS: As for drone fishing technique, when you feel a nibble it is like jerking up the rod.
KLINGENBERG: I was sending my drone straight up.
MOOS: As for the poor fish it had to put up with Derek droning on.
KLINGENBERG: My first drone fish.
MOOS: About his new way of fly-fishing.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
BROWN: Wow, a fishie, my goodness.
Thank you so much for being here with us.
"AC360" starts now.