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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Policeman's Killer On The Run; Outrage After Texas Deputies Shoot Man; Source: Man Holding Knife Before Shooting; Teen Urged Boyfriend To Kill Himself; Teen Accused Of Helping Boyfriend Commit Suicide; Authorities Update Search For Policeman's Killers; Police Say Many Leads Coming From Social Media. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired September 02, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:32:08] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is this hour's breaking news on CNN.

Three men on the run for more than 24 hours, suspected of killing a Chicago area police lieutenant. We're expecting a live news conference at any moment now at the Fox Lake Police Department.

And we're watching the developments too, because right now the manhunt is underway, in parts of rural Illinois. They were searching areas that were heavily wooded and full of swamps and marches. They have scaled back the massive manhunt. But they are still directing it in certain locations.

One theory though is that those suspects may already be out of state.

The policeman shot dead yesterday Lt. Joe Gliniewicz. Radioed in that he was chasing three suspicious men and then his communications went silent.

The fellow officers came as backup and they found his body a short time later.

Today the FBI is involved. Today the ATF is involved. Searchers spent the last day searching on foot on horseback with dogs and also aircraft from the sky and helicopters.

We're going to continue to watch this for you and we will let you know just what they say as soon as they give us their live news conference.

In the meantime, in another story a new detail is shedding some very important light on why two sheriff deputies may have opened fire on a man in Texas killing him.

All of these began when police responded to a domestic violence call outside of San Antonio, here is the video, dispatcher say a man may have injured a woman and a baby.

Police say the suspect Gilbert Flores resisted arrest and that they made none lethal attempts to subdue him. Flores had a history of running with the law enforcement. But what happened next, stunned a lot of people when they saw the initial video. And we do want to warn that the video is disturbing.

So reaction was swift because it went out on television and a Bexar County judge where this happened actually told the New York Times "I've been in this position for 14 years and I've never seen anything like it."

The sheriff says her deputies only pulled the trigger after "Lengthy confrontation."

But now we're learning there's another detail. In one hand Flores was apparently holding a knife. And that is from a source that is close to the investigation.

Paul Callan is a CNN Legal Analyst and a Senior Trial Counsel for Callan Legal. And Tom Verni is a Former NYPD Detective and a Law Enforcement Consultant.

Tom, first to you I want to talk about that detail, there are two videos, one has been widely distributed throughout the media. And there is that utility poll that obstruct a partial view of what happened special the left hand.

[12:35:05] Now comes word from close to the investigation that that obstructive view that left hand may in fact have been holding a knife. Is this a game changer in the way the police responded?

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Oh, yeah without a doubt. I mean look, I would always ask that the public would have a leap of faith. And that the police are doing their job the way that they would explained to do. And everything is happening for a legitimate and legal reason.

You know, look and plain doubles advocate if the police did use deadly physical force without any reason or cause and, you know, what then their free, they're going to be held to the fire for that. And they're going to be dealt with it accordingly.

And yeah, none of us from law enforcement would have a problem with that, if they didn't act in a lawful manner.

Now given what we do know of this incident, yeah here's a domestic violence incident which is very one of top two or three jobs police can go on, you know, the offender here, you know, hurt his wife and his child.

And there was some reporting that he allegedly was potentially suicidal. You know, suicide like my cop is not on time (ph) either.

BANFIELD: So, you know, on that -- let me jump in there was some of the reporting that Flores had harm this 18-month-old child. Apparently the child was found with a cut on her head. I don't know the condition of the woman in this domestic incident. But I also know that he had quite wrap sheet aggravated assault in 1999, aggravated robbery in 2003, criminal trespassing, possession of marijuana et cetera.

Paul Callan, weigh in on this, I don't know if those officers knew of this background. But I do see quite a distance between them and Flores. And the distance is disquieting for the layperson like me. Can you see something else in that that I'm not seeing?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, a lot of these cases where you have deadly force used involved mentally deranged individuals who police believe post a threat of physical danger. And we do know by reporting that he may have cut his baby, he may have hurt somebody seriously before the police arrive on the scene.

And I can't -- it's very difficult Ashleigh to judge from this perspective how close he was to the officer. But assuming hypothetically, he had a knife in his hand and the cop perceived a motion in her or his direction. That could place them in fear of physical injury and justify the use of force.

We might -- there maybe another video that will turn up that will provide a different angle on this, certainly as you sit here and look at it, it's shocking and even the chief judge of the county said, I've never seen anything like it, it looks horrible.

But, you know, I have to agree with Tom that in the shooting cases we really have to have all the information before we jump to a conclusion.

BANFIELD: Yeah and that second video will be critical, there's a lot of people right now, there are a lot of people calling for the release of that video. So we'll have to stay tune on this story.

Paul, Tom, thank you. Both you appreciate it.

CALLAN: Thank you.

VERNI: Anytime.

BANFIELD: Everybody knows that you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater despite your first amendment rights.

But here's a really though question. Can you cooks (ph) and cajole an even badger someone if his committing suicide.

When we come back that young woman says "Yes" that she has first amendment right. You're going to hear her text, you're going to hear what she said to her friend that ultimately may had lead to his suicide.

Is she going to face manslaughter and beat this wrap?

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:42:19] BANFIELD: Is it a crime to encourage suicide? A Massachusetts teenager is facing involuntary manslaughter charges for allegedly sending text messages urging her boyfriend to take his own life.

According to court document 18-years-old Michelle Carter assisted Conrad Roy also 18 in taking his own life by "Suicide by counseling him to overcome his doubts and pressuring him to commit suicide in the short-term."

Instead of trying to talk Roy out of killing himself for or notifying someone who possibly could have intervene and help out Carter seemingly encourage instead. Encourage that 18-year-old to overcome his doubts and go through the suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning.

In one of their hundred of disturbing conversations Carter wrote this, "When are you going to do it? Stop ignoring the question." And then went on to say, "Do you have any other generators at work that you can go and get? "Yes, probably, Conrad says, ha ha ha." And in bold she says, "GO GET ONE" and then Carters says, "Your fine it's going to be OK. You just got to do it, babe. You can't think about it." "OK, OK", Conrad says, "I got this." Carter response, "Yes, you do. I believe in you. Did you delete the messages?"

Joseph Cataldo, joins me know from Newton Massachusetts, he is the Attorney for Michelle Carter.

It is really hard for me to look at that and see that this is not assisting suicide I get it courts of have weighed in that advising or encouraging is actually first amendment. But assisting is something that is not legal. How do you see this as different?

JOSEPH CATALDO, ATTORNEY FOR MICHELLE CARTER: Thank you Ashleigh for having me.

I see this as, it's I think the court will see it as an encouragement case. Massachusetts does not have a law like some states have making it a criminal act to assist or encourage suicide. Massachusetts has no such law. Our legislator has decided not to an act such legislation.

So this is a case with somebody planned his own death over a lengthy period of time had previously try to kill himself with acetaminophen almost needed a liver transplant and had play on this all out. Would you living out if I may on this text messages is the month of June. You just read a few excerpts from July. But back in June Ashleigh, Conrad Roy try to get Michelle to endorse his plan that he was going to kill himself.

She refuse, she said "Don't kill yourself you need help, get assistance."

[12:45:01] She went so far in saying that he should join her in McLean Hospital to see the doctors there, they can help. He refused any treatment he said "I have a plan, I'm going to take my own life."

He went even further. He asks her to do a Romeo and Juliet. Those are his words with him. She said, "No, we are not going to die." She said those words. Are we collided he again said, 10 days before he took his own life, "Join me, won't you kill yourself with me." And she said, "No." So factually, this was a long term plan that he had. She took no participation other than speech.

She took no physical actions, whatsoever. She didn't take the generator, she didn't drive to try and purchase a generator. She didn't do those things. He did. In fact he sent her a link of how to kill yourself by carbon monoxide. He did that weeks and weeks prior. So he had fought this plan out for a very long period time.

Ultimately Michelle Carter, then begin to text him as you've just resided saying, "OK, well you've been talking about these from months and months, when are you going to do it?"

So he actually even went so far as to tell Michelle a couple days before that he was in the process of doing it but the generator a failed.

So Michelle kind of didn't even know because they had seen each other physically in over a year. This was the texting relationship.

So she didn't even really know what was going on, on the other end. And ultimately he took his own life. He got into that car and over a lengthy period of time whether be -- you'll have to be at least over 30 minutes. He's to come to the carbon monoxide, the plan that he had hatched.

So that's the way I see it and I think the court will see it that way too.

BANFIELD: So what about the fraud aspect. Because fraud has worked its way into presents that in case was before as well. And she clearly tried to cover her tracks. You saw that message, did you delete the messages she ask some. She also didn't tell for truth to those who she was in touch with after the fact. This is very disquieting to jurors.

Again, you may know the law, but jurors are like me, they get upset with that sort of thing.

CATALDO: Yes. On one point, the deleting the text messages, at one point there is conversation that she says, "Did you delete the text messages?" But prior to her saying that, he had told her in a prior text messages to delete the text messages.

So factually, he put that idea out there the text messages should be deleted. But in any event, after the fact, I don't think there's a fraud issue. The courts have said, "The first amendment doesn't protect fraud obviously." For financial gain, you can't lie to get somebody to part with their money.

So I don't see this as a fraud type exception to the first amendment. So --

BANFIELD: Joseph, she said -- she actually said herself to a friend if the police read my messages with him, I'm done. Family will hate me and I can go jail. It's almost that's thought she foresaw this. CATALDO: Well, I mean obviously she's not a lawyer. She doesn't know the laws. Most people in Massachusetts would not have thought that this was a crime. The speech alone would equally homicide.

So I don't think that her words after the fact that, "Oh no people will hate me, I could go to jail for this," amount to match when you analyze this to the court system and whether or not a law was broken.

Again we do not have in Massachusetts a law that criminalize suicide or criminalizes encouragement of suicide.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CATALDO: And she took no physical actions, whatsoever, she was not present when he went -- in fact this automobile --

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CATALDO: And got the generator started.

BANFIELD: We will watch this case I find it fascinating. I hope I got your name right, Sir Cataldo at the top. I think I'm except some letters but if I didn't I apologize not getting right at that time.

CATALDO: You did.

BANFIELD: OK. Thank you. Mr. Cataldo. I hope you'll come back and join us and I'll be fascinated to see how this case resides.

CATALDO: All right. Thank you.

BANFIELD: I appreciate it.

Coming up next, you probably saw on the bottom right hand of the screen were still waiting on this live news conference in Illinois. The Fox Lake police were going to update us. In the manhunt for three people, three ghost like suspects. One black, two white and that's all we have to go on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:51:09] BANFIELD: I want to get to this breaking news, I want to get you right up to Fox Lake where were getting an update from police on the search for those three missing men who allegedly kill the police officer.

(BEGIN PRESS CONFERENCE COVERAGE)

DET. CHRISTOPHER COVELLI, LAKE CO. ILLINOIS, SHERIFF'S OFFICE: -- 10:30 last night after a 14 hour intensive manhunt for this individuals which allocated nearly 400 police officers from the across the area, Federal Agents from across the area is allocated over 45 K9 units at least six aircraft searching a 2 mile square radius.

The perimeter was pulled last night at approximately 10:30 as the individuals were not located within that parameter after being extensively checked.

Following that the Lake County Sheriff's Office and the Illinois State Police allocated the number of deputies and troopers to the Fox Lake area to assist the Fox Lake, Police Department in saturation controls across the area. The purpose to this saturation patrols is too prong.

Number one to continue looking for these individuals, and number two to follow up on any leads the coming of suspicious people and forward leads to the Major Crime Task Force. Additionally is to advice the residence of Fox Lake that Law Enforcement is here to support them, we're here to keep the community safe, we're here to stay and we're going to go hand and hand with the residence of Fox Lake to ensure there security during this time.

When an instance like this happens it victimizes not just the Police Department but the whole community, so we are here for them. The schools in the area they decide to close today. And then was for a couple of reason obviously primarily to keep the children safe. A lot of the children in this area do walk to school. And the school is made the determination to go ahead and cancel today for the safety.

I'm going to turn the microphone over to Chief Filenko.

GEORGE FILENKO, COMMANDER LAKE CO. ILLINOIS, MAJOR CRIME TASK FORCE: OK. Thank you, first I like to start up by thinking all of the resources that have come together offer their support to the Task Force.

Currently we're utilizing the FBI, the ATF and the United States Marshals Office as well as the Sheriff's Office alongside our investigators. This is an ongoing investigation, we've been following up in leads since yesterday throughout tonight at last night and still continue following up on leads.

We have a lot of social media leads coming in. The community has been fantastic in phoning on tips and leads we're going through a lot of data and a lot of information. The State Police has offer to provide us data Intel resource specialist that's going to vet some of that information because is being replicated and triplicated in some cases.

And I'll be open for any questions of at this point of course I'm going to caveat this by telling you that, this is a still an ongoing criminal investigation. So, I am going to be limited into giving you specific types of information.

Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two White man, one Black Man, and at the spreadsheet that your man and women are operating.

FILENKO: That's correct. There is the initial radio traffic given out by the officer when you called in the suspicious persons and that was the only description provided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No dash cam video, no surveillance video --

(OFF-MIKE)

FILENKO: Were going through the local video systems as part of the process that we do and we canvass of course yesterday, the Sheriff's Office is coordinating, a parameter search in a specific area until that was concluded. We could not get our officers into the area to process the crime scene. We're start gathering some of that video information.

And right now we are reviewing what we have in still collecting.

(CROSSTALK)

[12:55:03] FILENKO: We don't have anything that we have found on the video yet but were still in the early phases of reviewing it.

(CROSSTALK)

(OFF-MIKE)

FILENKO: The autopsy was performed yesterday at the Lake County Coroner's Office. At approximately 7:00 P.M. concluded about 9:30 P.M. last night. And we've got some preliminary results from that.

And now that liberty going to reveal any of that of course because it is crucial and key information or investigation but in any autopsy, there is always forensics there that are giving assist us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Commander in light of the fact that it's been reported that -- one or two of these individuals had some physical contact with the body of Lt. Gliniewicz. My question is, did you -- were you able to get any finger prints or any DNA from that crime scene?

FILENKO: I'm not sure. Will you obtain that information but I can tell you that our evidence technicians did process the crime scene. Everything collected at the crime scene is now been turned over to the Northern Illinois crime lab. They're currently expediting, processing any type of the evidence whether it be fingerprint evidence, DNA transfer. And we probably won't have those results for at least a day or so.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- that is done was taken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can say whether or not there was -- that the officer fire his gun and what -- and can you say what made them suspicious? Why did he stop them? Why did he want to stop them?

FILENKO: You know, again I can't reveal that information related to the firing of any weapon. As far as suspicious person, obviously I can speak for the officer. Whatever the case was, there's only description was that he was going to be out with those three subjects and it was a suspicious circumstance call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you confirm that you've done with the -- can you can confirm that the gun was taken?

FILENKO: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you look for the three suspects --

(OFF-MIKE)

FILENKO: Again, we're going to rely on information, and this process is involved in the initial investigation canvassing, talking to people in the area, reviewing those videos if somebody that ask a question about and building leads off of that.

As always, we're relying in the public too. Many of these cases, not just officer involved homicides but cases homicides in general are greatly assisted by public information. It all takes is one tip or good lead to break the case wide open.

So we're vetting through those right now. We've got hundreds of those coming in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any indication on the suspects across state line?

FILENKO: We don't have any indication of that at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a reward if they found or will there be?

FILENKO: We're on preliminary discussion with some of our federal partners related to a reward. We haven't quite got into that point yet. When we do, we'll issue either a press release or we'll have another or media --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you confirm that the gun was taken?

(OFF-MIKE)

FILENKO: Again I'm not going to confirm any of that information because it is relevant and of course to this investigation and that's key information that going to help us along the way. Once we -- and I'm being optimistic apprehend the murderers of this officer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, did you say there is a surveillance video that you're going through?

FILENKO: There's video throughout the area. As, you know, it's pretty common nowadays, not only for businesses but for private residence. They have barely sophisticated video systems. So we have been "Canvassing" throughout the area and trying to identify specific locations and collect that video.

Now there's an evidentiary way of collecting that so it's not change (ph) it down the road. So there's a little bit of a one process and then the review of the video itself. There maybe hours and there just maybe minutes. (CROSSTALK)

FILENKO: Not tonight out as well.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- You know, 8:00, he calls in, for series of suspicious people, 8:10 backup arrived, 8:20 --

(OFF-MIKE)

FILENKO: Yeah. I can give you that offline. You know, I don't want to go into generalities but we can give you some kind of a timeline. So that would be fine.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- because there are three involved people here that one of them banding out somebody and somebody may be able to help you out.

FILENKO: Generally, that's the case, we're being optimistic that that may will be the case.

[13:00:01] If they don't tell us, usually if there's three or more or even two or more involve. It's difficult to keep those types of secrets to yourself.