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Kentucky Court Clerk Jailed; Illinois Manhunt; Trump Signs Pledge. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 03, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And I think what I have predicted back in June is playing out in court right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Now, Dylann Roof at his first court appearance, we saw it. We showed it here right here on CNN. He got forgiveness from family members of the victims who said publicly they forgave him.

Would those victim family members have been consulted in making a decision about whether to move forward in the death penalty?

HOLLOWAY: In all likelihood, yes. Prosecutors typically take into consideration the wishes of the family when they make these decisions. For example, in the James Holmes trial that I know that you followed very closely in Colorado, a lot of those family members opposed the state seeking the death penalty.

There's a big difference between Colorado and South Carolina. Colorado rarely uses the death penalty. South Carolina is much more likely to. In fact, you had the governor coming out right at the time and saying, look, this is a death penalty case.

In addition, I think it's probably too soon. I know the federal government has weighed in and they filed charges, but I feel that it's most appropriate for South Carolina to prosecute this case. I think they can seek the death penalty. I think they will get the death penalty. Guilt or innocence is a foregone conclusion and I do think a jury probably would vote to send him to the death chamber.

CABRERA: All right. Philip Holloway, we will stay on top of it. Thanks so much.

HOLLOWAY: Thank you.

CABRERA: Top of the hour. Thanks for rolling with me. I'm Ana Cabrera.

And we have some breaking political news out this hour. Just moments ago, Donald Trump -- you saw it here -- declared his pledge not to run as an independent if he does not win the GOP presidential nomination. He made the announcement after a brief one-on-one meeting with the chairman of the Republican National Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The RNC has been absolutely terrific over the last two-month period. And as you know, that's what I have wanted. I have wanted fairness. I don't have to be treated any differently than anybody else.

I just wanted fairness from the Republican Party. We're leading in every single poll. A new poll came out today where we're over 30 percent. We have actually hit numbers as high as 35 percent and 40 percent.

And, frankly, I felt that the absolute best way to win and to beat the Democrats -- and very easily I think beat the Democrats, no matter who it may be, whether it's Hillary or anybody else, and I think maybe Hillary's going to have a very hard time, frankly, with what is happening getting to the starting gate -- the best way for the Republicans to win is if I win the nomination and go directly against whoever they happen to put up, and for that reason, I have signed the pledge.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: I see no circumstances under which I would tear up that pledge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So, today's cheers come in stark contrast to the scene last month, when Trump refused to rule out a third-party run. We know now that really didn't make a difference to Trump's popularity. In fact, the latest poll which he referenced released just this afternoon has Trump with his biggest lead yet, 30 percent, with neurosurgeon Ben Carson a surprise second at 18 percent.

Let's go now to chief political correspondent Dana Bash. She was there at Trump Tower when Trump making his pledge of allegiance to the Republican Party.

Dana, you have been reporting also that this pledge has been in the works for weeks. What more can you tell us?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This is something that has been a high priority for the Republican Party, even before, as you just played, Trump refused to vow to stay a Republican in the last debate.

It is something that Republicans have been quite worried about, about him staying because of the fact that if he does at the end of the day not get the Republican nomination, runs as an independent, he will have the money and maybe enough support to take enough Republican votes away that the Democrat could win.

So that's why this has been such a big priority, and even more so as Trump is doing even better in the polls. And what I asked Trump today, Ana, why -- what changed, what changed in the past few weeks since he refused to make the vow? And his answer was that he is doing better in the polls and that the Republicans are being nice to him. That is something we have heard him say many times before as the weeks have gone on and as these private conversations, the courting I guess you would call it, has been happening.

But now he obviously has gotten to the point where he wanted to sign the pledge. Now, let's be clear. Trump does have political benefit in doing this as well. He said he didn't get anything out of it. He said he's a great negotiator. He was asked whether he negotiated something for this. He says no.

[15:05:03]

But what he did get was the ability to appeal to some of the party faithful who really care if he is a committed Republican. And there are a lot of grassroots Republicans out there who do care, who were turned off by the fact that he wouldn't make that vow last month. That's a big issue.

You know, I think that it's worth noting that Reince Priebus, the Republican National Committee chair, he came here to seal the deal. The meeting I'm told was about 15 minutes' long. And he was not seen, which I guess is understandable, because he doesn't want to look like he's favoring any of the 16, 17 Republican candidates.

But he was in and out and he came here and he didn't go anywhere else. He didn't go to see any other candidate. He came here and he came to Donald Trump's turf. That was not an accident when it comes to Donald Trump.

CABRERA: We saw kind of at the end of the press conference Donald Trump say, oh, we will fix that, when somebody pointed out something on the pledge. Was there something wrong about what was already on that pledge?

BASH: There was. He held up the pledge at the end, so because he understands performance and understands camera angles and the media.

He held it up so everybody could up so that everybody could get a picture. And when he held it up, I and a few other people next to me that it said August 3. Today is September 3.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: And I said, did you sign this beforehand? In fact, here it is. This is kind of the revised version. It said August 3 when he held it up. And he looked down and he looked up and he said something along the lines of, well, I didn't write the name -- I just -- I didn't write the date. I just signed it. But then they were handing out revised versions.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: That's already corrected.

BASH: Sort of.

CABRERA: All right, good to see. Dana Bash, time does fly. That's for sure. We appreciate your reporting. Thanks so much.

There's also this new Monmouth poll showing only one GOP candidate beating Trump if there were a hypothetical matchup between GOP candidates. Dr. Ben Carson is the one who would beat him in that kind of a matchup. But everyone else, Trump beats soundly and Trump himself pointed out this is about the poll results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know, one of the things that I'm most honored about is that so far everybody that has attacked me has gone down the tubes. You have Lindsey Graham attacked me. He was at 3 percent. Now he's at zero. You have Perry attack me. Now he is getting out of the race. He was at 4 percent or 5 percent. Now he is getting out of the race. He was at zero.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Let's bring in CNN political commentator Buck Sexton. Also joining us, Trump supporter and former contestant on Trump's reality show "The Apprentice" Katrina Campins. And Javier Palomarez is also with us. He is the president of the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

Thanks for all of you for being here.

Buck, let's look to September 16 and CNN is going to hold our next GOP debate. How do these other candidates prepare to go in to that debate and potentially go after Donald Trump?

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think a lot of them have learned that going after Trump doesn't really pay much in the way of benefits. I am actually surprised that some of the GOP candidates haven't taken more of a page from the book of Trump, so to speak, by speaking out very plainly on issues that really matter to the conservative base.

CABRERA: But they have. Scott Walker. We have seen Jeb Bush.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: It seems to be hurting them more than helping them.

SEXTON: But it hasn't -- they have spoken out against Trump, but they haven't been able to catch on in their own way speaking about the issues.

What I mean is that they're not looking at what Trump is doing well, how he's appealing to the conservative base and trying to copy that in their own way. There's still a sense that of them are a little too stage-managed, a little too crafted and that's why they haven't caught on yet.

Trump needs to keep the momentum going. He needs to Stay out ahead because the biggest advantage he has, the very fractured GOP side of the aisle right now, there are so many that want to be, so many possibilities that as that narrows down, I think if you see somebody who is neck and neck with Trump -- I know Dr. Ben Carson is already there in one poll.

CABRERA: Getting close.

SEXTON: Then the Trump miracle starts to look less like a miracle, starts looks less inevitable and he may really have some trouble. He needs to keep the momentum going. I think the rest of the candidates will have to try to shine themselves, rather than attacking Trump.

They are not going to get Trump supporters by attack Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: They can't beat him at his own game.

SEXTON: They can't beat him at his own game. Honestly, trying is going to be difficult for a lot of them. I think they will get in trouble if they do that.

CABRERA: Javier, I know you had a meeting with Donald Trump just this week.

JAVIER PALOMAREZ, PRESIDENT AND CEO, UNITED STATES HISPANIC CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Yes.

CABRERA: You probably sensed, heard his comments of Jeb Bush speaking Spanish to voters, saying that Jeb Bush should speak English because we're in America. What is your response to those comments?

Well, thanks, Ana.

And, yes, I did meet with Donald. We meet for about an hour-and-a- half at his request. I have to say that the Donald I met with was very different than the Donald I see in front of the cameras. This was a Donald that listened more than he talked, that was very inquisitive, that was willing to listen to our position on immigration reform.

Ultimately, my goal was to get him to begin to look at immigration reform as an economic imperative and get him more aligned with our association's views on immigration reform. I think we made a bit of headway there. And, secondly, to get Donald to agree to come to our question-and-answer series we will be holding October the 8th in front of the live media in Washington, D.C., for about a 90-minute Q&A with me.

[15:10:09]

I can tell you that as it relates to that specific issue, I find myself in disagreement with Donald. I think that what Jeb Bush is doing is exactly right. He's illustrating that the Republican Party does have a place for multiculturalism and appreciation for the fact that America is a very multicultural country and that in fact there's great strength in our diversity. CABRERA: Katrina, we just heard Javier say he met who is not the same

man we see in front of the camera, that Donald Trump showed different sides. What do you make of that comment when you all along have said what you see is what you get with Donald Trump?

KATRINA CAMPINS, CEO, THE CAMPINS COMPANY: I think what he is stating is what I have been trying to emphasize throughout all of my appearances here, which is the man that I know is kind and he is pro- Hispanic and he is not against -- you know, universally against Hispanics.

And that's the main point that I was trying to get across which I think came across in their meeting. And he is willing to work. One question that a lot of people have asked me is, Katrina, how do you think that Trump is able to negotiate with world leaders, given the fact that he comes across as somebody that believes that it's his way or the highway?

And my answer to that is I have been involved and seen many negotiations and he has plenty of partners around the world and he's been able to make the deals happen. I think one thing is the, you know, entertainer that people see in Trump and one thing is the businessman. And I think that with the press conference that we saw today, you have seen him evolve. He appears to be a president.

He is calmer and more centered and I think that by signing this loyalty pledge, a lot of confidence has come across, you know, because now he doesn't feel like he's getting attacked so much. Now he's more united with the Republican Party and I think that that was very evident in the press conference today.

CABRERA: Buck, Trump has mentioned he doesn't insult or doesn't criticize others until he is attacked. And in fact we have not really seen him go after Ben Carson or Ted Cruz, both of which have been people who haven't said much about Trump either. But can he take criticism?

SEXTON: No, Trump fights back when people decide to go after him. I think he has some fellow GOP candidate that he clearly has a little more respect for. You mentioned Ted Cruz and some others.

And then some other GOP candidates, in the case of Lindsey Graham, congratulating Lindsey Graham on his 1 percent or less than 1 percent national ranking is not actually something that -- it wasn't particularly nice. Right? So, he goes after people sometimes, but I think that what people are seeing is Trump gave his best press conference yet in my opinion today. He's getting better at this.

He's getting more fluidity. He's dealing with the press, he's coming out, he's taking questions. When you juxtapose him, by the way, we're so focused on the intraparty GOP side of this, with Hillary Clinton who's missing right now, no one really knows what she is up to. She's not stepping out there taking questions from the press. When she does, it's a disaster.

People feel like the authenticity and willingness to speak is in and of itself something to pay attention to and a reason to support this guy. A lot of conservatives see this as he's not just the answer to the GOP establishment. He is the answer to all of the sort of politics you see as usual coming out of D.C., and I don't think there is anybody you could fine who is more emblematic of that than Hillary Clinton, apart from the e-mail scandal that is going on right now.

CABRERA: All right. Buck Sexton and Javier and Katrina, thanks to all of you for being with us. We really appreciate your thoughts.

We have some more breaking news now, a major development involving that Kentucky court clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. The judge just this afternoon just before our show began found her contempt in court, sending her to jail. We will have a live report about this when we come back.

Also, some breaking news in the massive search for the three suspected cop killers in Illinois. We're getting word that a key piece of video has now been turned over to authorities and also new information on the officer's gun. It is a busy afternoon. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:09]

CABRERA: She knew it could happen and it did. Kentucky court clerk Kim Davis has been ordered to jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Davis appeared in federal court earlier today. She could have just been fined. But the judge elected something else for her, something harsher.

If -- she can get out of jail only by issuing the licenses. The question now is, is she going to do it?

CNN's Alexandra Field was in that courtroom when Davis was taken into custody. Also here with us, CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos.

Alexandra, to you first. I understand you just got new information. Kim Davis could be heading back into court any moment now. What is happening?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana. We will start at the end and we will work our way back to the beginning here.

Basically, what happened after Kim Davis was remanded into the custody of the U.S. Marshals Office was that the judge declared that the only way that she would be released from the custody was if she agreed to issue these marriage licenses and if she authorized her deputy clerks to do the same. This entire office has not been issuing marriage licenses.

Since she departed with the Marshals being taken into custody, the deputy clerks who work in the office have been called to the stand where they have been speaking to the judge. I'm understanding now from one of the CNN producers who has been inside the courtroom that five of the six deputy clerks have said that they would be able to put their personal opinions or any reservations aside as the case may be and that they would agree to authorize and issue these marriage licenses, but now Kim Davis will have back to the courtroom and let the judge know whether or not she would intend to interfere with the deputy clerks' willingness to sign off on those licenses.

This is just the next chapter in this really evolving saga which has fueled a lot of emotion on both sides. I was inside court all morning. This was a two-hour-long hearing. I don't think it came as a big shock to anyone in the courtroom that Kim Davis was held by the judge in contempt of court. That seemed to be the direction that the case was moving in as we have heard the judge speak.

[15:20:05]

But I think people were certainly shocked. You actually saw some mouths drop when the judge said that Kim Davis would be the custody of the Marshal, because, again, this is somebody who could have been fined. This was a civil complaint that we're talking about here.

We heard from her attorneys today and we heard from Kim Davis herself on it. She laid out her case saying that her religion and her conscience made her unable to follow the judge's order to issue these licenses. It is a case that she continues to appeal in a higher court.

But the defense called one of the plaintiffs who has been barred from receiving a license to marry her partner three times now and the judge sided with the plaintiffs and saying there was nothing that made Kim Davis incapable of following the orders of the judge, the orders of the judge and the orders of the court. The judge really found that Kim Davis was simply unwilling to carry through on the court's order.

And he was very thoughtful and reflective in his response. And, Ana, he said at one point that it's really the duty and the obligation of every civilian and citizen, but also every elected official, to uphold orders issued by the court, which is why he said he decided to find her in contempt of court.

CABRERA: Wow. A lot going on there. Alexandra Field reporting, covering it for us. Know it's passionate on both sides of the debate. We appreciate your reporting.

Let's bring in Danny Cevallos to break down the legal aspect of all this.

Of course, the ACLU, which had filed the lawsuit on behalf of the plaintiffs in this case, has asked the judge to fine Davis, yet he slammed her with jail time. Why?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: A lot of people don't realize this, but you can be jailed for contempt of court, even though that is a civil remedy.

All across the country in what is often called deadbeat dad court, fathers and parents in general are jailed on contempt of support orders. It's not unheard of to jail someone for contempt of court. Just the fact that people were expecting a civil fine doesn't mean that the judge didn't have the power to jail her for her willful defiance of a court order. And this case really just boils down to one issue.

When you are an elected or a government official...

CABRERA: Government official.

CEVALLOS: Right. When you're a government official, and you are charged or ordered to carry out your duties, are you doing those as a human with your personal views and religious beliefs or are you merely an automaton for the government, for your title, for your office?

So that is really the issue. This individual, Kim Davis, is claiming that as a person her religious beliefs prevent her from doing her job. The other side of the coin is, when you are elected or you take on the duties of a government job, you are to perform the duties irrespective of what your personal free speech believes or your free speech entitlement may be.

When you speak in your capacity as a government official, the court has said in this case, you speak as the government, not as your own personal views.

CABRERA: And you have to treat all fairly who you are there to serve I guess is what the district court said, what the appeals court said, what the Supreme Court said when they denied her initial banning of the issuing of licenses.

CEVALLOS: That's an interesting perspective, because she didn't decline to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. She just stopped issuing licenses, which as to the heterosexual couples, that would appear to me legally to be a clear disregard of her duty, a clear abrogation of her obligations as the clerk.

And it's interesting. I don't know that the outcome would have been any different, but certainly there's no question as to the heterosexual couples, she has no grounds to deny those marriage licenses. The real question here, and I think it's been one that's been really settled not only by the Supreme Court, but by the appellate court, is that when he expresses these religious beliefs, she essentially is free to do so in her home, but when she is acting in her official capacity, she is speaking for the government, not for herself. And, therefore, she must comply with the court order.

There's no religious belief or religious exception that warrants her refusal of obeying this court order.

CABRERA: We will have to leave it there, but it will be interesting to see the trickle-down effects. I know there are two other county clerks in Kentucky who have also been refusing to issue the same-sex marriage licenses, so we will be following this one. Danny Cevallos, our thanks to you.

Up next, some new developments in the desperate search for three suspected cop killers. Investigators are now saying they have a video that could be a key piece of evidence in the case. Also, some plane debris confirmed, a Paris prosecutor says, with

certainty that the piece of airplane wing that washed up on Reunion Island is indeed from MH370. Keep it here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:53]

CABRERA: Breaking developments in the hunt for three suspects in the murder of a beloved police officer in Illinois.

First, law enforcement officials outside Chicago just announced they may have a significant break in the case, plus some new details about the slain officer's gun.

Let's go to Rosa Flores following the story from Fox Lake, Illinois.

Rosa, let's start with that new video. Where did it come from? What might it show?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I will tell you why this is important, Ana, and that's because, until now, investigators only had a vague description of the suspects. And this is from the last radio transmission of the slain officer, the conversation that he had with dispatch, and that is that this is -- these are two white males and a black male.

Now, with this revelation of the surveillance video which comes from a homeowner from nearby, they won't tell us exactly where it's from, but the investigator did allude to the fact that a lot of the times, these surveillance cameras, these surveillance videos homeowners are very sophisticated.

And here's the other thing. He says that it is consistent with the fact that there are three suspects on the loose. Here's what the investigator just told us within the hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FILENKO, COMMANDER, LAKE COUNTY MAJOR CRIME TASK FORCE: We have retrieved as late as last night what we believe to be some significant video. That's been turned over to the Department of Homeland Security for processing.