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Migrants Refuse to Leave Stopped Train; Europe Divided Over Migrant Crisis; Erdogan Says "Whole Western World" to Blame; European Shares Rally; ECB Hints at Expanded Stimulus Measures; Wall Street Awaits US Jobs Report; French Officials Convinced Debris From MH370. Aired 4-5p ET.

Aired September 3, 2015 - 16:00   ET



PAULA NEWTON, HOST: A day of uneasy calm on the stock markets as the world watches the refugee crisis unfold across Europe. Markets not knowing

what they want to do, a lot of momentum, dipped twice into the negative throughout the day. It's Thursday, the 3rd of September.

Tonight, discord and despair. EU leaders are bickering while refugees suffer across the continent.

The ECB hints at more help for Europe's struggling economy.

And a final confirmation. French investigators say this plane part did, indeed, come from the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.

I'm Paula Newton and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Good evening. Tonight, as Europe's unprecedented migrant and refugee crisis intensifies, the continent's leaders remain at odds over what could

possibly be a solution. For hours, crowds of migrants that refused to get off trains that came to an abrupt halt 35 kilometers outside of Budapest's

main railway station. Now, their destination currently unknown.

Earlier, chaos broke out as police attempted to force a migrant family to leave a railway station for a holding camp. Meantime, Hungary's prime

minister insisted Germany is responsible.


VIKTOR ORBAN, PRIME MINISTER OF HUNGARY: The problem is not a European problem. The problem is a German problem. Nobody would like to

stay in Hungary. But we don't have difficulties with those who would like to stay in Hungary. Nobody would like to stay in Hungary, neither in

Slovakia nor Poland nor Estonia. All of them would like to go to Germany.

Our job is only to register them. So, if the German chancellor insists on that nobody can leave Hungary without registration towards

Germany, we will register them. It's a must.


NEWTON: Fred Pleitgen is now live for us in Bicske, Hungary. I mean, Fred, I think of no better person to try and explain this European

bickering right now. You just heard him, he's saying it's Germany's problem.

And yet, you're there on the ground. We saw the scenes unfold today. Do you see any glimmer of hope that they will try and get this resolved?

You still have people on these -- stranded on these trains.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, in fact, Paula, these people are stranded on the train that you can see right

there behind me. You'll see a lot of Hungarian police who've essentially cordoned off a railway station there. And that train there has been

stationary for about eight hours now, with well over 100 of these refugees on that train.

You see them get off every once in a while, at least some of them. There's also other trains that pulled here into the station where some

migrants have been pulled off.

And essentially the standoff here is that a lot of the people who are on that train don't want to be registered here in Hungary. They don't want

to get off this train, they don't want to go into a temporary shelter here in this city outside of Budapest, and they demand that they want to go on

to Germany.

But you're absolutely right, at this point in time, it's very difficult to envision that there is any sort of solution to all of this on

the horizon, at least in any sort of quick matter of time.

Because it appears as though there's two sort of different approaches from several European countries. You have some countries, like for

instance, Hungary, like for instance some of the Eastern European countries as well, that treat what's going on here in Europe right now more as a

border patrol issue. Hungary, of course, is erecting a fence right now to try and stop people from coming here into this country.

And of course, at the same time, you have the chaotic scenes that you're seeing here right now with many people who are trying to leave, with

many of the issues with people camped out there, outside a Budapest train station.

And then you have other countries that are treating this more as a humanitarian issue, and it seems as though the German government has come

around to that position. It wasn't always the case. The Germans -- Angela Merkel, at least, has been accused of dragging her feet in the past. But

the Germans have now come around to a different position.

And it's interesting, because I did see both sides of this today, because I was in Munich earlier today, where there were a lot of people who

were donating things, there were shelters saying that we could actually -- that they could actually take in more people than they have in the past,

but they simply aren't coming in because they're stuck here in Hungary.

So, it's a very difficult situation. And you can tell, how these political leaders here in Europe are at odds with one another. Because on

the one hand, you heard Viktor Orban, but then you also heard a lot of EU leaders rebuff that and say, this is, in many ways, a defining moment for

the European Union, where going forward, they'll see what the core values of the European Union actually are, Paula.

NEWTON: Yes, absolutely. And you made so many good points there, Fred. If we take it down to the human level of what's going on there right


Our Arwa Damon was describing throughout the day that they don't want to go in those relocation camps because some of the conditions are

deplorable. Do you have any indication there that what the Hungarians have set up are good facilities, is a place where they can actually take refuge?

Where they're going to get water and food and sanitary conditions, anything?

[16:05:11] PLEITGEN: Well, it appears as though what's been going on so far is that there have been some facilities that certainly have not been

up to standard.

And if we look at some of the things that have been happening to people who just crossed the border from Serbia into Hungary, there

certainly were some who were forced to stay outside for a very long time, to camp out. They had very little water.

And so, many of them said that the conditions there simply were not good enough. It's unclear how it is, for instance, in the camp that's just

very close to this train station here, but certainly you can tell that many of these people have lost trust and lost faith in the Hungarian

authorities. And quite frankly, this morning --


NEWTON: Oh, we seem to have lost our Fred Pleitgen there, but we're going to continue on, of course, with this story. And what Fred was

talking about was a clear divide that is emerging with these EU countries. Countries like Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic oppose

quotes that would actually require nations to take in the displaced.

Now, the four countries will hold an emergency summit on Friday. A spokesperson for the Hungarian government told CNN's Hala Gorani his

country is being unfairly criticized.


ZOLTAN KOVACS, HUNGARIAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: It is impossible to comply with all the European rules and at the same time being criticized

for not letting people through the country. This is impossible.

If you want to handle the situation -- and I think the prime minister was very outspoken today at the negotiations with the heads of the European

institutions -- it is impossible even to raise the proper question how we are going to start handling the situation if you don't make the first step.

And the first step is, again, as I told you a couple of times for the past couple of days, restoring law and order at the borders. Discipline

should be put into the plight of illegal migrants, otherwise we won't be able, neither in Hungary nor in any other European country, to handle the



NEWTON: Now, meantime, France, Germany, and Italy have already written a letter calling for an EU asylum overhaul. Now, on Thursday,

France and Germany proposed a permanent mandatory mechanism for welcoming migrants. Now, the French president says reforms are needed, clearly

stating that some nations are simply not doing enough.


FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): I consider that what's been agreed to so far is no longer sufficient. We'll

not mention countries, but there are a number of them, which do not stick to their moral responsibility, so we need to go further.


NEWTON: Ska Keller is the chief negotiator for the European Parliament's emergency relocation scheme. She is also the spokesperson for

the Greens in the European parliament on migration, and she joins me now, live from Berlin.

I don't even know where to begin in the sense that in Brussels, the city is literally littered with reports on the migration crisis that go

back two or three years. I've read some of them. There were solutions on the table. I hear now that there are more solutions that are going to be

put on the table. Is there any hope that we will see any kind of union in the European Union on this topic in the near future?

SKA KELLER, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT EMERGENCY RELOCATION SCHEME: I would really like to see that. I'm not losing hope yet, and I think for a lot of

those issues that were solutions in the past, now there's a window of opportunity, also, and an urgent window for action.

Because a lot of problems have been known for a long time, that a lot of countries are not fulfilling, for example, the standards in housing

asylum seekers or with proceeding asylum claims. There were lots and lots of problems also with the problems about the Dublin procedure, that's a

rule where you have to apply for asylum in the country where you first enter the European Union.

All those problems were known, but nothing was done about it because there was no political will to do it, so maybe now the urgency that we have

right now might lead to more political will to act. But unfortunately, currently, everything is very much divided. I hope that Europe can come

together on this.

NEWTON: Europe hasn't come together right now. We heard from our Arwa Damon, as you were saying, that some of the relocation services that

they've had in Hungary have been deplorable.

Is there not something that the EU can do at least about that so that while they're arguing that these people are taken care of and can find

refuge? What they're supposed to be finding when people are fleeing war and persecution.

KELLER: Indeed Europe can do something about that and Europe could have done something about that the whole way through because we have

directives, we have laws about the housing of refugees, the processes of asylum claims.

[16:09:57] Hungary has had a very bad reputation about dealing with asylum claims and refugees in the past. Unfortunately, not enough was

done, so right now, we have an urgent situation where it's really up to the national governments to provide, for example, houses, food, provisions.

The European Union can give money, but we cannot give buildings to governments, of course.

But still, we need to find a European solution so that those refugees can actually arrive at a place where they will get protection, have the

possibility to ask for asylum in a dignified way. And I think that's currently not possible in Hungary.

NEWTON: Ms. Keller, if you had a magic wand that you could wave right now and do what had to be done for all of these people traveling across

Europe practically, in a real practical sense, what would you do right now with people on the ground throughout Europe?

KELLER: I would get rid of the Dublin regulations, so get rid of those rules that say a way you have to apply for asylum in the country of

your first entry. Because those Dublin rules make it very hard for refugees to go where they have family, to go where they can actually employ

their skills. That's one thing.

And secondly, I would put into place legal and safe ways of entry for refugees. Because indeed refugees are not a border control problem. You

cannot stop refugees at the border. They need protection, but currently they have to risk their lives, for example, in the Mediterranean in order

to find protection.

And this is really a scandal that even though we have some sort of asylum system, better or worse, there is no way of entering legally and

safely into it, and that needs to change. There's also legal ways of how to do that. It's not a big thing, it can be done easily, but it has to be

done urgently.

NEWTON: Ms. Keller, thank you for joining us on what is a grim night throughout Europe tonight. Appreciate it.

Now, Turkey's president says the "whole Western world" is to blame for this crisis. Like many countries, this morning's front pages in Turkey

were covered with pictures of Aylan Kurdi, Syrian refugee child found washed up on a Turkish beach.

Now, in an exclusive interview, CNN's Becky Anderson asked Recep Tayyip Erdogan what his reaction to that picture has been.


RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): When I saw that picture, while it was in a family setting, unfortunately, and my

children, my grandchildren, they saw the picture at the same time as me. When we saw it, we were devastated.

And we asked the question to ourselves, where is humanity? Where is the conscience of humanity? It's a three-year-old child.

And it's not a first time. This is happening, many children, mothers, fathers, unfortunately, have been drowned in the rough waters of the

Mediterranean. Only our coast guard since the beginning of this year have saved more than 50,000 people. This is the kind of time for going through,

but this picture, of course, was what made us cry.


ERDOGAN (through translator): To be honest, the whole western world is to be blamed, in my opinion.

ANDERSON: You have accused Europe of turning the Mediterranean into a cemetery. Did you mean that?

ERDOGAN (through translator): Well, yes, I meant that, and I said that wholeheartedly, because that's the reality on the ground. Because the

countries bordering around the Mediterranean, they do not want these people, no matter what the cost.

But that's not our outlook on the matter. That's not how we see it. If they are at our borders, if they want to come in, we do welcome them in

as guests, and then, if there are those who need to be sent back to their countries, that's what we do. But otherwise, if we have the means to house

and welcome them in our country, that's what we do.

And that's the reason why the number of people from Syria and Iraq in Turkey is in excess of 2 million as we speak. For instance, Greece, Italy,

Spain, and other countries including France, Hungary, well, they could easily do the same thing. Unfortunately, it hasn't been done so far.

The same goes for Germany. Consider the fact that the minister from Germany was saying that Turkey should accept these people in, and then,

their people will pick some of those and will accept those people, and other European countries were saying the same thing. What kind of an

approach is that?

It is not possible to understand that. I mean, just like I'm in an office of responsibility, these people are also in offices of

responsibility. So, what they need to do is to conduct a joint operation and give these people an opportunity to save themselves. And this picture

you were showing, we do not want to see similar cases.


[16:15:06] NEWTON: And a reminder that Turkey, along with Jordan and Lebanon, has been really taking on most of the burden for the more than 4

million Syrian refugees.

Now, we also want to tell you that any minute, we're expecting to hear from Aylan Kurdi's aunt, Teema Kurdi. She lives in British Columbia in

Canada, and it's believed the Kurdi family was trying to reach her there before the family's journey was struck by tragedy.

And we will bring you her statement to the media as soon as it begins, many wanting clarification now on exactly what she had asked of the

Canadian government. And we will be right back here on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS right after this break.


NEWTON: Now, a big rally today for European shares, and that's thanks to a message from the European Central Bank. After its first meeting

following weeks of market turmoil, the ECB said it will continue to be supportive.


MARIO DRAGHI, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK: The governing council emphasized, as I said a moment ago, the willingness and ability to act if

warranted by using all the instruments available within its mandate, and in particular regarding the asset purchase program that provides myself

sufficient flexibility as far as the horizon, the size, and the parameters.


NEWTON: ECB president Mario Draghi there. Today, he did, indeed, mark his 68th birthday --


NEWTON: -- by making it clear --


NEWTON: There it is, the birthday party boy. He made it clear the central bank could prolong the program known as quantitative easing if

necessary. So, he kind of threw his own party, because he announced the ECB is cutting its forecasts for eurozone growth for this year and the


The ECB also slashed projections for inflation, saying consumer prices may only rise by 0.1 percent this year. And a reminder that the target for

inflation is 2 percent.

Now, just about everyone talks about stimulus. The ECB has been buying $67 billion worth of government bonds and other assets since March,

effectively printing money. Draghi went on to talk about risk, pointing a finger squarely at the slowing growth in China.


DRAGHI: We are observing a weakening of the prospects for the Chinese economy. This has two effects, substantially. One is through the trade

channels for weakening the economies of other -- of the rest of the world.

Because China by now is a large share of the world economy, and has a confidence effect, as we've seen, on the stock markets and all the other

financial markets, which is also operating on the negative side.


NEWTON: Ken Rogoff, Harvard professor and former chief economist at the IMF, joins me now, live from Cambridge, Massachusetts. And Ken, to

give you credit yet again -- you seem to be doing this a lot -- you were very prescient about your warnings about China.

And despite what Mr. Draghi said there, do you really think this is top of mind for him right now, that China is really worrying all central

bankers around the world more than it would have a few years ago?

KEN ROGOFF, PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Oh, I don't think there's any question about that, that China's gotten bigger. Germany sells a lot

to China, Europe does, it's a very important market. So, given that they weren't growing that fast to start with, to have Chinese check in.

[16:20:01] And as Mario Draghi said, it's both the trade and royal financial markets. Yes, it's unpleasant, and it's no surprise they've

talked up their easing more. Although it's unclear how much the ECB alone can do at this point.

NEWTON: And many people were happy, obviously, to see him talking about that quantitative easing again. We'll remind everybody that they

were late to the party.

ROGOFF: Indeed.

NEWTON: Many people thought he should've done it sooner. Again, we will point, Ken, to -- I was re-reading -- I re-tweeted your book a few

weeks ago, "This Time Will Be Different," and it talks a lot about the financial crisis and debt. A lot of that in Europe having to do with

Greece right now.

Ken, when you look at this whole situation, how much do you think Europe can hold it together in the next year or two to come, given all the

adversity? And we have to mention, even the migrant crisis. Because while it may not affect the economy head on, it certainly does provide another

level of political discord, which can also affect things in Europe.

ROGOFF: Well, I think Europe is healing, and Europe actually, believe it or not, has been one of the bright spots on the global economy. It's

one of the few places that's doing better than the IMF had thought a year or two ago. Low oil prices, the euro has gone down.

The migrant crisis, of course, is a profound humanitarian crisis, existential crisis. But you know, it could work out that it helps unify

Europe. It could tear it apart, but it could help unify it. It's certainly very distressing.

NEWTON: Yes, absolutely distressing. Ken, thanks so much. We appreciate you talking to us today, and we want to go now to that stimulus

message that we were just talking about from the ECB president also helped reassure investors on Wall Street.

That gain was hard-fought today, I have to tell you. They were in negative territory twice. The US stocks closed mostly higher for a second

day. The Dow was off session highs after weekly jobless claims rose to a two-month high. On Friday, investors, though, will be watching for the key

US monthly jobs numbers.

Now we know for sure. France says it is now certain that debris found in July is from missing Malaysian Airlines flight 370. What this means for

the investigation, that's up next.


NEWTON: Tonight, French authorities are saying they now believe with certainty that a wing part found washed ashore on Reunion Island is from

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Now, the Malaysian prime minister made a similar statement weeks ago, but investigators in France were less certain

than saying that more tests were needed.

Now, after almost a month of forensic analysis, they say they've finally been able to match a serial number on the piece of debris to parts

used in the manufacturing of the missing Boeing 777. CNN's safety analyst David Soucie now joins me from Denver.

Wow, I feel like so let down. If you and I and most of the globe had that piece of news months ago, we would have really sat there and thought,

OK, finally a piece in this investigation that can maybe lead us to solving this mystery. Is that what this is now, David, still, or no, are we very

far from trying to figure out what happened to this flight?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: We're still very far, and the only thing that's going to prove conclusively exactly what happened is once we

get our hands on those black boxes.

[16:25:00] What this does, though, is it takes the energy away from all of these conspiracy theorists that are saying that the airplane is

somewhere up in Kazakhstan, or it might have gone here, it might have gone there.

It's very much in line. I plugged this new information into the algorithm that we've been using here at CNN to follow this and to make sure

that we are on track with what we're thinking on this. But the real clue to this, the real key to this now is going to be what happens with that

information? What kind of information can we get from it? And moving on from there.

NEWTON: And in terms of actually finding that information, you just mentioned the black boxes. Will it help with trying to locate those now?

SOUCIE: Well, it could in one way. And there's -- it's still difficult to know, and I'm hoping that the analysts there at the laboratory

can figure out how this part came off of the airplane. That'll tell us a lot.

And if it came off during a high-speed fall out of the sky, which is unlikely by looking at the numbers, but if indeed it did come off as part

of the airplane breaking up from speed, it could tell the searchers that the search area could be narrowed based on the fact that it didn't drift a

long ways after the last handshake.

Because that handshake, from what they have now -- or they're calculating that if the handshake happened at a certain point, then from

that point going forward, the airplane could have drifted as much as 50 or 60 miles.

But if it was a rapid descent after that handshake, which would be indicated by this flapping coming off so quickly, then it would be a much

narrower search area, and they could narrow it in a lot more quickly.

NEWTON: And in terms of -- Dave, you've been looking at this issue for months and months and months. Are you any closer? Have you seen any

other shred of evidence that leads you down one road and, say, ignoring another in terms of the cause?

SOUCIE: The two roads that in the book that I've written about this, the two roads really are, did someone commandeer the aircraft and gently

land it into the ocean, trying to make sure there were no debris parts?

And the other one is the fact -- is a possibility that everyone was asphyxiated onboard the aircraft, and then the aircraft ran simply -- was

guided out to be -- to a void land, and because of fear of further injuries to people on the ground, and then went out into the sea.

This piece of evidence, until we determine how it came off the aircraft -- again, back to that -- those two things are still balanced in

my mind as a 50-50 chance. So, until we get more information, more debris washes up, we're still just literally guessing at it.

NEWTON: Yes, and this piece of debris was completely unexpected. And hopefully, David -- I'm sure you hope as I hope -- that it gives some

measure of closure to these families still desperately looking for answers. David, thanks so much once again.

SOUCIE: Thank you.

NEWTON: Now, still to come, the story of the little boy whose drowning has sparked worldwide outrage over Europe's migrant and refugee



[16:30:11] NEWTON: Hello, I'm Paula Newton and there's more "Quest Means Business" in just a moment. First, (AUDIO GAP) the top news

headlines we're following this hour.

Europe's Migration Commissioner says the migrant situation is out of control as E.U. leaders struggle to form a plan on how to accommodate

thousands of refugees.

Hungary's government has criticized Germany's calls for countries to share the burden. Well French president Francois Hollande says some

unnamed countries are not doing enough.

Now the migration commissioner Demetris Avramopoulos traveled to Greece, one of the E.U. countries most affected by the crisis and said

European countries needed E.U. help.



message of solidarity and support to Greece which in this period faces tremendous pressure from the refugee and the migration issue which is out

of control.

It is obvious that Greece being one of the main entry points and feeling this pressure is called upon to take measures to have the

financial, technical and political support of the European Union.


NEWTON: And we want to bring you now live to British Columbia in Canada where the aunt of the refugee toddler Aylan Kurdi. His aunt is now

going to speak to the media.

As you see, they are getting ready to comment there. There have been a lot of questions about exactly what kind of application they had made to

the Canadian government so that their family - Aylan's young family - could come to Canada.

As you can see, that's his aunt right there - Tima. She has been distraught all day trying to impart to people the kind of agony her family

has endured and the months they have waited to try and bring this young family to Canada where they wanted to find refuge.

Let's listen in now.


TIMA KURDI, AUNT OF DROWNED REFUGEE TODDLER: I don't know what to say. I don't know how to start.

Female: Does anybody have any questions?

MALE REPORTER: If I may start.


MALE REPORTER: This letter - is this regarding your brother Mohammed?




MALE REPORTER: And there's been some confusion (in Austin) reported about (Mohammed versus Abdul). Was it Mohammed who applied for ().

KURDI: I make it clear to everybody that I start the application with Mohammed first and his family and the Abdullah's application was next.

Because as you know, the application it took me from December to April to gather all the document, the information, everything.

So when it get rejected -- Mohammed application - again, I know I'm not going to apply for Abdullah and I told them the news. Of course it was

really bad to tell them this. I couldn't say it to them that I'm sorry, I cannot bring you here.

Mohammed right away he said there is only way to do it for my kids, my safety. I have to go to Europe somewhere, and he did. And he been in

Germany for the last two months - right now. And back - his family back in Turkey. Now he really regrets being in Germany because of the situation

everybody knows - it's really bad that over there too many of them.

So he knows he could not sponsor his family for sure. Now Abdullah, I said to him, "Mohammed is there now before the massive Syrian went." And I

said to him, "Do you want to go do the same thing with Mohammed?" That "I will support you with money." And to be honest, I do regret that. I

shouldn't send the money. Abdullah did not have money. If I didn't give him the money, he would not even go and those kids in the water and drown.

Anyway, he said to me, "I want to go." To start with he was only by himself - he want to go. Rehen his wife, but she said to me a week ago,

she said, "I really don't want to go. I don't know how to swim and I'm scared. What if we drown in the water?"

[16:35:13] I said to her laughing, I said, "Just put your life jacket on, you will be fine." So Abdullah said to me, "I want to take the whole

family with me because Mohammed told him if you bring your family will be better. I know I cannot bring my family right now." So he decide to do


A hundred time I speak with him on the phone, step by step. A few days ago - or three days ago - he text me and said, "I'm leaving right

now." And I sent the message, forward it, to my dad, to everyone. I said to pray for his safety to make it.

And it's only half an hour across - only half an hour. But it is very dangerous. So when I didn't hear from him for two days - his phone was off

- and I keep telling my family usually after half an hour, one hour at the latest, we should hear from him and we didn't. So it was something wrong.

Nobody know what's happening. I woke up yesterday at 5 in the morning and I saw in my phone 100 missed calls from my family in Syria, from

Turkey, and right away I know, I knew there was something wrong.

I call my sister-in-law, Mohammed's wife in Turkey, and she was crying, "Oh what I heard Abdullah." And I said to her, "Stop crying. Just

tell me what happened." And she said, "His kids and wife is gone. Abdullah survived." And I said, "There is number I can call him?" She

said he talked from somebody from the hospital. We cannot call that number.

Finally, around 5 afternoon, she sent me a phone number. She said call Abdullah, and I did call him. Could not - he could not speak. I

said, "Calm down. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't sent you the money - it's my fault."

And he said, "Don't blame yourself." He did it because he told me, "There is no way Canada will bring us there. It's going to be hard. And

you want to help me and my family."

I said, "Tell me what happened." He text me, he said, "You read it now." And he said, "The water was so calm, crystal clear and that's what I

know it's safe to do it. Put the life jacket on them and Aylan was so excited, so happy for that trip."

"We're going to have fun, Daddy!" And he said, "Where are we going?"

He said, "To Europe."

And he said to him, -- Galip, the old one - he said, "Is Europe - they have lots of toys there, right?" And he said, "Yes."

And they went. He said 20 minutes later there was a big wave coming and it flipped the boat. By the way, he didn't go in the rubber boat, he

went in the jet boat. There were 12 of them. He was upset with the smugglers. He said, "I'm paying you the double with the rubber boat will

pay for. You can't put the 12 with us - it's too heavy."

The smuggler said, "Don't worry about it, we did this hundred times and it's very safe." So when the big wave hit the boat and it flip it

upside down. So Abdullah right away catch both those (inaudible). He tried so hard from much as power he can, to pick them up from the water and

screamed, "Breathe! Breathe! I don't want you to die!"

[16:40:03] He took his head up the water. He look in his left arm was Galip and he saw him flesh(ph). (CRYING). And he said to me, "I just let

him go so I can concentrate on helping the other one, Aylan" He look Aylan in his face. Pools of blood coming from his eyes. So he closed his eyes

and he said, "Rest in peace, my son."

He look around looking for his wife. He saw her floating in the water like a balloon. He said, "I could not recognize her." (CRYING).

Then the Turkish guard came. I forgot what he said - an hour later or something - and rescued them. Took them to the hospital. When I talked to

him he said, "I'm sitting at the hospital. I don't want to talk to the reporters. What they want from me?"

"Now the whole world is going to watch my story. Where were - where they were - all this world - before when we try, when my kids they were

hungry, when I didn't have a job? Where was all the world, the rest of the world?

And I said to him, they're asking him what do you wish? He said to please have a new - I wanted to tell my world all what I want this time -

in this point - to tell the rest of the world to step in and help the refugees.

And basically to this point important - where they cross the water - somebody be there and not let them cross anymore. He doesn't want any

family to drown anymore.


KURDI: If they can bring my family here, that would be good. Mohammed is in Germany and there is no way he can take his family there and

I know there are too many there. So if we can bring him here plus Abdullah. I know Abdullah he doesn't want right now, but I'm sure later on

will be better for him to be here. I really want to help them, I really want to help them. We can work together.


NEWTON: You have been listening there to Tima Kurdi. You know, absolutely courageous to try and tell her story when she's clearly dealing

with so much grief and her story mirrors so many others across Europe of her family.

She had applied for status for her brother Mohammed. He was denied, and in so doing, she told her brother Abdullah that it was no use to try

and bring his two young sons and his wife to Canada because the application had been denied.

She describes with incredible sorrow and pain that she gave the money to her brother Abdullah to help them get across. They had to pay several

thousand euros to those smugglers, and she says that unfortunately she blames herself for what happened.

As we said, a story that continues to repeat itself. Paul Dewar joins me now on the phone from Ottawa, Canada. He's a candidate of Canada's New

Democratic Party.

Mr. Dewar how many - you're listening to the story , I know you've been listening in there to Tima Kurdi. How often do you hear that story

repeated? People knocking on your day saying, "Please help, please bring my relatives to Canada'?

PAUL DEWAR, NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY, OTTAWA, CANADA : We've heard that story and I've personally heard it for years now.

And what happened yesterday was that the image of Aylan and his body on the shore dead, abandoned changed how people saw things.

[16:45:05] And what we just heard was a witness testimony to what's been happening time and time and time again. The unfortunate thing - and

I'm being polite - is that our government was, you know, told time and time again that we needed to do more to open our doors and that Canada has a

proud tradition of bringing refugees in.

But we completely failed when it comes to Syrian refugees. We've completely failed (for) (Fatima) and of course completely failed for

Abdullah, his wife and their two children.

And it doesn't have to be this way -

NEWTON: OK, now -

DEWAR: -- it is a matter of will, not necessarily a way.

NEWTON: Mr. Dewar, I just want to interrupt you for a second. We're going to go to the Prime Minister of Canada who just a little while ago had

a rebuttal to all this. Let's listen to that.


STEPHEN HARPER, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Refugee policy alone is not remotely a solution to this problem. It is of a scale far, far beyond

that. That's why we have been one of the largest donors of humanitarian aid of any country relative to our size in this part of the world.

And I know that that has been appreciated by many of the people I did visit when I was there. And, yes, we are also doing what we have to do to

try and fight the root cause of this problem, and that is the violent campaign being led against people - against millions of people - by ISIS.

That is why we are part of the International Military Coalition.


NEWTON: Now, Mr. Dewar, you heard there from Prime Minister Stephen Harper. He had just announced as well a few weeks ago that they would

increase the number of refugees brought into Canada from Syria and possibly Iraq to 10,000 to 2017.

I mean, Mr. Dewar, we're not - this is in the middle of an election campaign in Canada - there's no need to politicize this. If your party for

instance gets into power, how can you get over this hurdle? You heard about all that bureaucracy, you're a veteran of all of this, I know you

know how difficult it is for these families to get these documents together.

What can Canada do to make sure that this process is streamlined? It has been streamlined before.

DEWAR: Well you know, what a great question and I just - I have to say that - my prime minister is completely wrong when he talks about this

being about ISIL and airstrikes. It is a wider problem, I grant him that, but we're talking about Syrian refugees, about Bashar al-Assad and the war

there which did spring out ISIL.

But we're talking about a commitment that Canada could have made a year ago spring, Paula, when we were asked by the U.N. to take in 10,000.

And our government dragged its feet. So very concretely, what we should have done - what we've proposed as official opposition party to do - is

what we did with the Vietnamese Boat People.

Put our people in (Sitchu) on the ground, document people, get it streamlined, get them on planes and get them into Canada and get them their

safety and reunite with their families.

We could do that. This government has refused to do that. And I hope this story and what has happened will change that. Canadians are outraged

as they watch and have seen what's happened.

But very concretely, you put the resources in Turkey - our immigration people - you put them in Jordan, you put them in Lebanon. Right now the

U.N. is ready to process 16,000. They've already been identified, so it's just a matter of Canada showing up and doing what we've done in the past

like we did in 1979/1980 with the South Asian Vietnamese Boat People.

And that's what we're saying, that's what we would have done as government and that's what we will do if we form a government.

NEWTON: Now, Mr. Dewar, we will hold you to that. Appreciate your time today.

DEWAR: Thank you so much, Paula.

NEWTON: Now, the images of a toddler's lifeless body washed ashore on a beach in Turkey, as we've been talking about, have of course shocked and

angered the world. And we're about to show you that photo again with a warning that of course it's disturbing, painful and heartbreaking.

Hala Gorani has more on what we know about this boy and his tragic end.


HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR, "THE WORLD RIGHT NOW": We know his name - Aylan Kurdi, three years old. The picture of Aylan face down on a Turkish

beach shared millions of times around the world on social media, on the front pages of virtually every European newspaper.

An image symbolic of war-ravaged people overwhelming some parts of Europe. The "Daily Mail" in the U.K. showed Aylan in the arms of a Turkish

policeman, tiny victim of a human catastrophe.

In Germany, not even a headline (for built), just he image with plain text urging Europe to act. Even in the U.S., a full front-page picture in

the "Daily News" with the headline "The Dead Sea."

Aylan Kurdi's family is from Kobani in Syria. They are Kurdish. His aunt shared this picture of the three-year-old and his five-year-old

brother Galip in Facebook.

[16:50:06] Both boys drowned in the waters between Turkey and Greece. So did their mother. They wanted to reach Canada where Aylan's aunt in

Vancouver had filed a refugee application last spring with the help of a local MP.

FIN DONNELLY, CANADIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I delivered the letter to the minister and nothing. We waited and waited and, you know, we didn't

have any action.


GORANI: In June, the family was told their request was rejected.

DONNELLY: And now, unfortunately, we see the news and this is just horrific that she now learns through the media seeing a picture of her

nephew in the news.

GORANI: Aylan's father survived the sea crossing. He told a Turkish journalist that he wants to go back to Syria to bury his family and be

buried alongside them.

Leaving behind the beach where the death of a single little boy has brought into focus an image of suffering that now has a face and a name for

the world to see. Hala Gorani, CNN Berlin.


NEWTON: And we will be right back after the break.


NEWTON: Sunny soldiers and tanks were on display to mark 70 years since the end of World War II. Now, it was the largest military parade

China has ever seen. And that could soon change.

President Xi Jinping told the crowd plans are in the works to scale back the Chinese military by 300,000 soldiers. CNN's Will Ripley has more

from Beijing.


WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A technicolor show of force - China boldly displaying new high-tech weapons of war. The world's

largest military presented as a force of peace and stability as China remains locked in territorial disputes with many Asian neighbors and key

U.S. allies including Japan.

The parade's timing, 70 years after Japan's World War II defeat, analysts say is no coincidence.

JOHN GREVATT, ASIA-PACIFIC DEFENSE ANALYST, IHS: China knows very well that the eyes of the world will be watching this military parade and

the eyes of the world will be looking very closely at military capabilities through this parade.

RIPLEY: The People's Liberation Army or PLA revealing many weapons kept hidden from the public until now. Long-range missiles known as

carrier killers capable of sinking ships which could neutralize U.S. naval power.

Attack drones, heavier and more sophisticated than ever. All of it made in China. President Xi Jinping promising a peaceful road ahead.

XI JINPING, CHINESE PRESIDENT VIA INTERPRETER: China will never be aggressive, will never invade other countries, will not impose on other

countries what it has gone through.

RIPLEY: Every channel in China ordered to play programs about past wars that killed millions of Chinese, state media crediting Communist

troops for the victory when it fact nationalist KMT troops bore the brunt of the losses.

YOU GUANGOIN, KMT VETERAN, INTERPRETED BY RIPLEY: "This really upsets me," says this 96-year-old KMT veteran. "The Communist Party's propaganda

blinds and fools many people."

RIPLEY: The spectacular display a huge inconvenience for those who couldn't leave their homes or even open windows during the parade.

[16:55:01] But some Beijingers didn't seem to mind. "We just have to sacrifice for this kind of parade," says this state worker who hasn't been

able to drive her car. Traffic restrictions and factory closures dramatically reduced Beijing's notorious air pollution, leaving skies

parade blue. A perfect day to show off to world leaders including Russia's Vladimir Putin. Noticeably absent, the U.S., U.K., Australia and Japan.

GUO YANBO, ENGINEERING GRADUATE, INTERPRETED BY RIPLEY: "I feel very proud," says this engineering graduate. "The army of my country is truly

grand and strong."

RIPLEY: The biggest military parade in Chinese history 70 years after the end of World War II. China showing off its growing arsenal, making

clear it's a force to be reckoned with. Will Ripley, CNN Beijing.


NEWTON: And we'll be right back with more of "Quest Means Business" in just a moment.


NEWTON: So much of the coverage of this migrant crisis has been driven by one photo, and we warn you we're about to show you that image

once more. The picture of young Aylan Kurdi lying dead on the beaches of Turkey.

It is absolutely horrifying and has riveted so many people around the world. Now, images as stark and as powerful as this one, they have the

power to change the course of history and parallels have already been drawn to other famous photos of innocent children suffering which have helped to

sway the public's opinion.

Now the famous picture of a young child in Vietnam for example helped publicize the brutality of the Vietnam War and inspired protests across the

United States. But there is a sad irony here to of these two images. The futures of both of these children belonged in Canada.

The girl in this photo, Kim Phuc, survived the war and escaped Vietnam. She now lives in Toronto as a refugee. She told me just a few

months ago it was the wakeup call that the world needed.

[17:00:00] Not a "Profitable Moment" but I think Richard would agree it is a thought-provoking one. And that's "Quest Means Business." I'm

Paula Newton. I'll see you tomorrow right here in New York.