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Will Biden Run?; Illinois Manhunt; Kentucky Court Clerk in Jail. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 04, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Her lawyers just wrapped up a meeting with Kim Davis, the clerk, and they are holding a news conference right now.

Let's listen in.

MATHEW STAVER, ATTORNEY FOR KIM DAVIS: We just had a good visit with Kim Davis.

And her first and one of her last words to all of us as we were in there is, "All is well."

Kim Davis slept well last night. She slept with a very good conscience, and she was in very good spirits. She was encouraging to us, and I think she never envisioned herself to be here, but this is where she is. She is here because of her conscience.

She is a prisoner of her conscience, if you will. She has a clean conscience, even though she is incarcerated behind these bars. One thing that Kim Davis will never do is imprison her conscience, even though she herself may be physically incarcerated.

She loves God. Her life was radically transformed four-and-a-half ago when she heard a story of grace and forgiveness. And during that time, when she went to a church that evening at the death wish -- dying wish of her godly mother-in-law, she heard that there was a God who loved her and gave himself for her and died for her sins and freely forgave all that she had ever done.

And, as she said, she played in the devil's playground for a long time, and her life has been radically changed since then. And that really forms the basis for Kim Davis' commitment and her conscience, because she loves God, she loves her people, she loves her job and the people of Rowan County, and she is committed to all of them.

To the people of Rowan County, she has been a servant there for 27 years. Her mother was there for 40 years before that. Last year, she ran for public office. She had never had any political aspirations. She felt a call on her life to run for office and she became the clerk of Rowan County, and she will remain the clerk of Rowan County as long as people want her as the clerk of Rowan County.

She has no intention of stepping down, because she loves her people and loves the job, and she intends to serve them well and she already has done that. By the end of the year, she will return about $1.5 million in savings to that county.

But she also loves God and one thing that she can't do is issue a license for marriage under her name and under the authority of the clerk of the court for Rowan County that authorizes marriage that is contrary to God's design for marriage.

She is someone who cannot affix her name or her title and under her authority to a marriage license that goes down into the annals of Kentucky history for as long as there is a Kentucky. That is for Kim Davis a heaven or hell decision, she said, and it's also a decision of obedience.

So, some have asked me how long Kim Davis is going to be incarcerated here? I cannot tell you that. I don't know what this judge will do. I can tell you what we're getting ready to do from a legal perspective.

But I can tell you very clearly what Kim Davis will do. Number one, she has no intention to resign. She will continue to serve the people of Rowan County, as she has done for so many years.

And, number two, she will never violate her conscience and never betray her God. So, she is prepared for the consequences of those two decisions. And that's why she is here. She is the first person to literally be imprisoned since a decision 5-4 two months ago on June 26 by the Supreme Court, and, frankly, I think it has stunned the American people.

It has shocked me. We did not anticipate that we would be here with Kim Davis in an orange jumpsuit as we visited her just a few moments ago, incarcerated with an indeterminate amount of time here in this detention facility.

CABRERA: We have been listening now to the attorney of Kim Davis. She is the Kentucky county clerk who is in jail right now because she refused to issue same-sex marriage licenses and has been held in contempt of court.

Remember, this is a case that began at the district level. It went to an appeals court and then it went to the Supreme Court, and she is still refusing to abide by the law.

I want to bring in Danny Cevallos.

We really didn't get much new information from her attorney, but he did say he visited her today. She spent the night in jail. She slept well. She has good conscience, in good spirits, she says, and she may remain in jail for an indeterminate amount of time, because she's not going to break on this.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely.

And it raises the issue of the contempt power. She is in jail, but contemnors who are in contempt of court have not exactly committed a crime. Instead, it's one of the court's other inherent powers to sort of keep order. And if someone violates a court order, they can be sent to jail, and really the jury is out on how long, to what extent the court has that power to sent a contemnor to jail.

[15:05:25]

In many cases, it could be theoretically indefinite, and it's used in many different contexts. Courts use it to punish deadbeat dads is the term that they give it. I don't use that term, but people who don't pay child support or in violation of other civil ordinances.

It's a fascinating area of the law because it's a civil remedy in nature, but the effect is very clearly one of incarceration.

CABRERA: Well, and this case, it seems to be testing new boundaries all the time, because just as he mentioned, she is first person to be in prison following the Supreme Court ruling for refusing to do her job as a county clerk. Do you anticipate that this is really going to set a precedent across the country?

CEVALLOS: I don't know about a precedent.

It certainly is an issue, but I think that most courts reviewing this issue at least consistently have taken the view that once you are elected to an official position, you are obligated to carry out your official duties. And it appears from Kentucky state law that that appears to be the case, that if you are elected as an official, you act as an official of that county.

Your deputies are not elected. They can probably carry on in your absence as I read the law, but I think this would be a terrifying precedent in that if county officials suddenly decided they could choose which laws to follow and not follow, hypothetically, that could create some chaos.

Of course, others might respond that's just a straw man argument. I don't know. That's for philosophers to debate, but really the issue is, can county officials simply refuse on personal grounds to do their duties?

CABRERA: That's the bottom line. Final question. She says she is not going to resign, and her side is urging legislatures basically -- the legislature to change Kentucky law so she doesn't have the responsibility anymore of issuing these marriage licenses.

There have been ideas thrown out like maybe make it a state-issued marriage license, instead of county-issued. Or maybe you can download a printable form instead and take it to a notary official. Are those things likely to happen?

CEVALLOS: I don't know about likely. There are certainly creative solutions.

When it comes to marriage, state legislatures have considerable power to do pretty much whatever they want and even defining marriage, well, obviously with limits, as we have seen recently. But certainly they could do that, but historically in Kentucky, the county clerk's job among many others is to issue marriage licenses.

If the Kentucky legislature in its infinite wisdom decides that, well, we no longer want that traditional job to go to the county clerk. We will foist it upon another agency. We will give it to the sheriff, we will give it to the dogcatcher, we will give it to whatever other elected official, instead of the county clerk. I suppose it could do so, but the question is, will it?

CABRERA: I am sure that would take a little bit of time, too. It's not going to happen tomorrow or overnight. Thank you so much, Danny Cevallos. We appreciate you joining us, as always.

Let's turn to some other breaking news. Continuing to follow that manhunt that is happening in Illinois. And new today, within the last couple of hours, really you saw it during the very end of the show right before us, there were tips coming in from the public, money now to help fund rewards.

And they are trying to still track down the person or persons who shot and killed Police Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz. But there were a few new clues, new video. Last hour, investigators near Chicago briefing reporters said they have a number of videos they have collected now that might show the three suspects.

A massive manhunt now has been under way since Tuesday. The area is still on edge as we head into this long holiday weekend.

Let's bring in CNN's Rosa Flores. She continues to follow this for us from Fox Lake, Illinois. And also with us, former New Jersey police detective Steve Rogers.

Rosa, to you first.

These videos, we're just hearing about them. Are we to understand they are just now getting into the hands of law enforcement?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Authorities trying to put a face to these cop killers, because, as of now, we only have a very vague description, Ana, of these individuals.

And that's two white men and a black man. Imagine that. So, they are hoping that these videos can tell them exactly who these people are, and so they are calling them golden nuggets of information. What are the videos? They say that they are surveillance videos from homes, from businesses, and then hear rights, from the Department of Transportation, so there's DOT video that has been turned over to investigators.

Now, this is important, because not only will it show you traffic, but it will also show you foot traffic, which investigators believe is actually the way that these suspects fled the scene on foot. Here is what the investigators had to say.

[15:10:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE FILENKO, COMMANDER, LAKE COUNTY MAJOR CRIME TASK FORCE: We have been contacted by a number of sources overnight who have also provided some video that we did not realize was out in the area, one of those specifically being the Lake County Department of Transportation.

Some of you who are familiar with the area know that they have intersection cameras. One of the things that we have historically known about those cameras is that that is usually recycled within a matter of several hours. They were astute enough to hear about this officer's slaying and they have held video from some of the intersections that are key to that exact location.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: And we also learned that the officer's weapon was recovered from the scene. Investigators telling us it's a .40-caliber weapon, that it was found near the body of Lieutenant Gliniewicz, and we also know that his body was found about 50 yards from his cruiser.

As for funeral arrangements for this man, they are scheduled for Monday, Ana, this community not only in mourning, but also dealing with the fact that these three suspects are still on the loose -- Ana.

CABRERA: Right, a small community, just 10,000 residents. Rosa Flores, thank you very much.

I want to bring in Steve now.

As Rosa mentioned, that traffic video. What we heard in that sound bite was that the DOT was holding onto this video and apparently just turned it over to police. Wouldn't they have requested that immediately?

STEVE ROGERS, FORMER FBI AGENT: You bet.

Look, the police are doing an extraordinary job, no doubt about it. But what is baffling a lot of law enforcement practitioners is the fact that that one golden nugget, perhaps the important golden nugget, is that video that is now in the hands of Homeland Security. Why is it taking it three or four days? Why is it taking Homeland Security three or four days to do a forensic search on that video?

That is something that needs to get out immediately so that the general public can get a little bit look at eyeball look at who these suspects may be.

CABRERA: Right. If you're the detective or leading this investigate, Steve, what would be your priorities at this point, now day three?

ROGERS: The priority has to be to get that video out.

I could tell you, if it went to the FBI lab down at Quantico, it would have been here by now. That is so important, because that may link every other video when you look at timelines, when you look at consistency. And that has to be released immediately, as soon as they get their hands what they are ever looking for there.

CABRERA: All right, Steve Rogers, our thanks to you.

ROGERS: You're welcome.

CABRERA: Up next, sorry for the confusion, Hillary Clinton says, as she addressed her e-mail controversy. She was asked if she wanted to apologize for using that private server, and you will hear her answer to that next.

Also, Joe Biden knows the questions are not going to stop until he says yes or no. Will he run for president? But yesterday he gave a surprisingly heartfelt answer, one that could suggest what he is planning. We will play it for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:20]

CABRERA: As one of her top State Department aides faces new questions on Capitol Hill today over the e-mail controversy, Hillary Clinton is also answering questions. But she declined to outright apologize for using a private e-mail server in her interview with MSNBC.

She did talk about what she could have done differently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I certainly wish that I had made a different choice and I know why the American people have questions about it, and I want to make sure that I answer those questions, starting with the fact that my personal e-mail use was fully above-board.

It was allowed by the State Department, as they have confirmed. At the end of the day, I am sorry that this has been confusing to people and has raised a lot of questions, but there are answers to all these questions and I will continue to provide those answers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining me to discuss further, A.B. Stoddard, the associate editor of "The Hill."

A.B., good to see you.

Let's talk about Clinton and what you just heard. She seemed to defend rather than apologize. How do you critique her answer?

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "THE HILL": Well, it's interesting.

I think just the fact that she is giving the interview -- it's been a really long time since she has, since she spoke with Brianna Keilar and was quite defensive several months back. She hasn't been answering these questions in full. When she answers them among her traveling media, she is usually defensive, she cuts them off, she makes jokes and changes the subject, so her willingness to answer this is a sign that the campaign knows that this e-mail saga will not go away for a very long time and that she has to seem ready to answer the questions and explain things.

Her unwillingness to apologize could remain a problem for her. She likes to say that it's all going to become clear later, that she is sorry the public is so confused, but actually she is confusing us over the definition of classified material.

She actually sent and received classified information. She did it many, many times. She is saying she didn't send material because that means she didn't send documents. And those are actually only accessible through a separate system.

But she certainly did share conversations from foreign officials and that kind of information is always classified, not in its marking, but in its nature and the substance. And that, when you take that position, is something that you are trained to know and you are given clearance for and you are responsible for.

CABRERA: It did seem like this was an opportunity to really show a humble side, but what you heard, as you mentioned, without apologizing, is she going to break through when it comes to the trust and transparency issues if she doesn't, you know, maybe peel back the curtain just a little bit more?

STODDARD: We don't know what is coming. She is under five investigations, or this situation is the subject of five investigations.

[15:20:02]

So she always talks about how she should not have used a private e- mail. That's different than actually housing her business records, her government records and communication and e-mail in a private -- in a system that was HillaryClinton.com and then in a server which was later wiped clean.

More e-mails were deleted than were provided to the State Department and they were not all personal. If the FBI investigation uncovers something that makes this worse, obviously, this could devastate her campaign.

In the meantime, she is just grappling with what the public wonders about her, and you see in those polls that her trustworthy numbers are terrible. It's hard when you're completely known, like Hillary Clinton, and you're not a newcomer, to redefine yourself. So she is going to have to work hard to seem like she's telling the truth and that she is trustworthy and that's a mountain to climb.

CABRERA: This controversy seems to have really been the one that has opened the door for potential other Democratic contenders.

Joe Biden of course has been on the tip of many Democrats' tongues, and pressure is on for an answer. He did give a hint on where his head is at last night. What is he thinking about? He says it's not about fund-raising, it's not about the poll numbers. It's really about matters of the heart. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The factor is, can I do it? Can my family undertake what is an arduous commitment that we would be proud to undertake under ordinary circumstances, but the honest-to-God answer is, I just don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: A.B., he sounded very honest. Does this sound like a guy who is going to run for president to you?

STODDARD: This is incredibly wrenching and I found it very difficult to watch. Joe Biden is being obviously completely honest that he doesn't know if he is up for this. He knows exactly what it takes.

He's run for president before. He hasn't done very well, but he's certainly been next to and involved in a winning campaign. He knows how grueling it is. He called it an arduous commitment. And it sounds like he is not ready.

I think what we are seeing is the party silently and privately encouraging him to try to be ready if he could, if Hillary Clinton's campaign goes away. I don't know that Biden has the strength to actually fight her and try to take her down, so I think if he was the rescue candidate, they would provide him the infrastructure and provide him the money and the support, but going out and trying to get it on his own right now on a deadline doesn't look like a task he is really up to.

CABRERA: We appreciate your thoughts, A.B. Stoddard. Good to have you.

STODDARD: Thank you.

CABRERA: Up next, a bizarre story unfolding in Saint Louis. Police say an 11-year-old boy home alone with his little sister shoots and kills a suspected home intruder -- the latest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:55]

CABRERA: Kids without adults can mean trouble, but in one case in Missouri, it may have forced a boy to do something no child should even have to consider.

Police say an 11-year-old boy in the Saint Louis area shot and killed a suspected home intruder who was only 16 years old himself.

Stephanie Elam is covering this story for us.

Stephanie, so many questions about this case, but first let's set the scene. It was just this boy and his little sister home alone, right?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's what we are hearing, Ana.

And it's crazy to think about an 11-year-old boy home with his 4-year- old sister, the only two that are in the house. From what we understand from police, there were already two other attempts to break into the house that same day. This is yesterday. And then on the third attempt, they do believe that the 16-year-old gained entrance to the house because, the police are telling CNN, they see no forced entry.

They believe the 16-year-old came in through the front door and that is when the 11-year-old shot the 16-year-old with just one shot and hit him in the head. They do believe that the 16-year-old had an accomplice with him who fled when that one shot was fired. They later took into custody a 22-year-old who actually lives on the same block as the shooting for suspicion of burglary.

What we know is that neither of the siblings were hurt. But we have heard that there was some neighbor, one neighbor who lives on the street was telling one of our affiliates, KMOV, that the 16-year-old was not trying to gain entry into the house, that was just outside there, that they were arguing back and forth a bit.

But police say that there is evidence that this 16-year-old did get inside the house and that's where the shooting happened. Still, though, when you think about an 11-year-old pulling the trigger to kill somebody, it's just an unbelievably sad story.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Absolutely. And it makes you wonder where were the parents at this time? Most importantly, how did the boy get the gun?

ELAM: That's right.

We do know that the mother is cooperating with the investigation, and she reportedly got the gun because of previous break-in attempts. And that's why she had the gun. Whether or not she had talked to the son about using the gun, we don't know that part, but obviously lots more -- a lot of questions here about the story and why the 11-year-old seemed so prepared to do this in this time, but also the fact that it was just one shot, just one shot, and that killed the 16-year-old.

CABRERA: Let's listen to some of the police investigation as we are learning new information, Stephanie. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. BRIAN SCHELLMAN, SAINT LOUIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: The access to the guns for children, which is exactly what they are, whether you are 11, you're 2, you're 3, is scary. And it's something that should be a concern for not only the police, but for every citizen out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: All right. So, again, the investigation continues into exactly what happened leading up to this incident, but we do know one 16-year-old is dead at the hands of an 11-year-old.

Stephanie Elam, our thanks to you for being on top of this for us.

Up next, for too long, the world has turned a blind eye to the migrant crisis. And it is increasingly harrowing, with scenes like this. In fact, you are looking at live images right now, desperate families looking for any sanctuary they can find. They are now walking along a highway. Where are they going?