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Express Jet Flight Attendant Filing Complaint Against Co- Worker; Young American Woman Meets Brutal End While Volunteering In Nepal's Earthquake Region; Pope Francis Appeals To Followers To Put Their Faith Into Action. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 07, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] HORATIO MIHET, ATTORNEY FOR JAILED KENTUCKY CLERK: would allow her to return to work and that would allow her to preserve her conscience while at the same time others can comply with the edicts of the Supreme Court.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: You're outside the Carter county jail where Davis is being held, you just met with her, what is she saying?

MIHET: You know, she's in remarkably good spirits, this being the fifth day of her incarceration. And considering the injustice that is being perpetrated on her right now, Kim Davis remains resolute, remains firm, remains the same gentle soul and gentle spirit she was before she was put within this prison. She's in great spirit and she understands and knows that free thinking Americans, freedom loving Americans are joining her in the stand that she's taking for her conscience.

CABRERA: It wasn't long ago, you just filed this emergency request. We have reached out to the governor since then for some comment. But last week, we do know his office said this is an issue between Davis and the court. So perhaps the governor doesn't want to set a precedent by accommodating Davis' request which could perhaps allow other clerks to shirk their elected duties. How do you respond?

MIHET: Well, look, the precedent has already been set in this country, in the United States, land of the free, we don't put people in jail because their conscience conflicts with their job duties. Instead we are providing reasonable accommodation. It has been done time and time again. And there's no reason why governor Bashir or the court couldn't offer that accommodation today. They can start pointing the fingers at each other, but they each are in position to provide to her that simple accommodation today that would make sure she doesn't spend another night in this prison.

CABRERA: Those on the other side of the debate would say it is her duty to follow through on her oath of office in issuing marriage licenses to all who are legally allowed to have that, and that includes same sex couples.

MIHET: You know what, in this country we do not force Americans, whether private citizens or public officials, to choose between their livelihoods or their conscience. And in this case, Kim again, Davis is not out there sitting at the altar, trying to block people from being married. Instead all she asked for is a simple basic accommodation. Please take my name off this form. Don't force me to personally sign it. Others can sign other forms, so long as it doesn't have my name, but please don't make me violent the core of who I am. And for her to be sitting in jail today, this is an indictment against a free and tolerant society. A free people should not tolerate what is happening to Kim Davis beyond these walls.

CABRERA: Some might argue if she doesn't want to do the duties that she was elected to do because of her religious beliefs, she should resign.

MIHET: But that has never been the choice that we as a tolerant society have required Americans to make. Instead, when it is possible to provide a reasonable, sensible accommodation, our government has always provided it, not only because it is required to do so by the constitution and the law but it is because that is who we are as a people. We have always placed such a high price on religious freedom in this country. Other people have risked life and limb to be able to come and be partakers of that religious us freedom.

There's no reason Kim Davis cannot be provided a simple common sense accommodation while at the same time the edicts of the Supreme Court can be complied with by others who do not share the same convictions. There's a win-win solution here, and the fact that both the court and the governor have rejected that solution and instead have chosen to put Kim in this jail, that is a national outrage that should awaken the conscience of America.

CABRERA: Before I let you go, Horatio, how long is she willing to stay behind bars?

MIHET: You know, we don't know how long she will be there. We pray she will be set free today. We are determined to do whatever it takes to win back her freedom, but Kim Davis has made it clear to us in the past and reiterated that to me this afternoon that she is willing to stay in this jail for as long as it takes in order for her to be able to win back her constitutional rights not just for herself but for Americans of all faiths.

CABRERA: Horatio Mihet, our thanks for joining us and sharing that perspective. We really appreciate it.

Let's turn to another case that pits religious beliefs against workplace duties. And this one involves a flight attendant for Express Jet. Three years ago, Charee Stanley joined the airline, two years ago is when she became a Muslim. And then just this year she learned her faith prohibits her not only drinking alcohol but also from serving it.

In June, she informed Express Jet she couldn't serve alcohol on flights because of her religion. And her religion said the small carrier directed Stanley to work out deals with another attendant on her flight so the other attendant could do that particular task. Well, a few months later a co-worker complained saying Stanley wasn't fulfilling her duties. That's when the airline suspended her. Stanley's attorney spoke with me last hour. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:39] LENA MASRI, ATTORNEY FOR MUSLIM FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Even this particular flight attendant that filed the complaint, she even agreed to that accommodation, said she had no issue with it. Rather, this complaint was filed afterwards and, you know, it is worth mentioning that that complaint had Islam phobic overtones to it where it mentioned her headdress and foreign writings that she had in her possession. So you know, it wasn't necessarily that it wasn't working out, to the contrary, it worked out very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: With me now, Professor Eugene Volokh from UCLA law school.

Does this flight attendant have a discrimination case, Eugene?

EUGENE VOLOKH, PROFESSOR, UCLA LAW SCHOOL: Quite possibly, but a lot depends on the particular facts. In 1972 Congress provided that employers had to reasonably accommodate religious employees objection to various job duties. That's been applied to, for example, nurses who didn't want to participate in abortions to Jehovah's witness who was asked raise or lower a flag and he said that this religion forbid him raising the flag.

And likewise, the same could be applied here. And the rule is that if it is relatively simple, relatively straightforward, without much burden on the employer, on co-workers or on customers to accommodate the religious objection, for example, to work out some deal with a co- worker where the co-worker serves the alcohol and this employee serves coffee, latte, or some such, then in that case that's what the employer needs to do.

But if it is an undue hardship, the employer has to spend a lot of money or if this were the only flight attendant on the flight, pretty rare, but you could imagine that, in that case the employer wouldn't have to accommodate the request that way. So, it all depends on the particular facts, that's the accommodation scheme Congress set forth.

CABRERA: I want to read the statement from Express Jet regarding the complaint that's been filed. Essentially, it says at Express Jet we embrace and respect the values of all our team members. We are an equal opportunity employer with a long history of diversity in the work force.

So Eugene, how do you weigh her rights to that of her co-workers who may think they have been asked to make some unreasonable accommodation?

VOLOKH: Well, how I would weigh it if I were a legislature, it is an interesting question, there are good arguments. There shouldn't be these accommodations. And that if there's a neutral generally applicable rule, you should follow it. But Congress has done the weighing in a different way, said as long as the accommodation requested is reasonable, doesn't impose undue hardship, it is legally required. So then the question is on these facts how much burden does it impose

again on co-workers and on the employer? And if the employer can show that indeed it is burdensome, because given the logistics of the plane, maybe, for whatever reason, it may not be possible to have a co-worker take care of the task, then in that case no accommodation is required.

On the other hand, if the employee is right that another person can take care of that, again, take care of the alcohol while she takes care of the coffee and tea without any real burden on the other person, then in that case she should prevail. It is a question of degree to be sure and it is a question that turns on the particular facts of each particular workplace, but that's the rule Congress set forth.

CABRERA: Interesting. I want to broaden the conversation just a little bit because we were just speaking with the lawyer of the Kentucky clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples on the basis of religion. How does that case differ from this case with a flight attendant?

VOLOKH: So it has some differences, has some similarities. So first of all by its own terms, title 7 doesn't apply to elected officials. There's exception there. But there's state statute, Kentucky religious freedom restoration act that applies not the same regime, not the same rule but a comparable rule to government restrictions and burdens imposed by the government of Kentucky, including ones in the clerk of court.

So I do think if all that the clerk of court is asking for is that there be exemption from the requirement that her name appear on the marriage licenses for all couples, same sex and opposite sex, if she's saying I don't want my name on those, have the deputy's name or just the title on them, then in that case that would be a reasonable accommodation that indeed the state would have to implement and she would be entitled to keep her elected office and be exempted from this rule.

On the other hand, if she ends up asking for more, if she ends up demanding say as first seems to be the case that she not issue any licenses at all, well, that would be an unreasonable accommodation the state wouldn't have to provide.

[15:40:30] CABRERA: Well, Eugene Volokh, you offered some new thoughts on all this. We appreciate it. Good to have you on.

VOLOKH: Very much my pleasure.

CABRERA: Up next, an American volunteer helping victims of the devastating earthquake in Nepal is brutally murdered. More on the man that confessed to killing her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:44:58] CABRERA: A young American woman met a brutal end while volunteering to help victims in Nepal's catastrophic earthquake. Police say Dahlia Yehia of Kalamazoo, Michigan was beaten to death by a man she met on a Web site. That connects Travers to host (ph). But now, investigators have made an arrest.

CNN's Sumnima Udas reports Nepal is shocked by the viciousness of this murder.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The bizarre and horrific murder of a 25-year-old American woman is sending shockwaves across Nepal, a country still reeling from the devastating earthquake that hit some four months ago. The victim traveled to Nepal in late July to volunteer in earthquake relief work. She found a place to stay from a Web site called couchsurfing.com for a man living near the tourist city of Pulkra (ph). Police say a few days later, the man she got the room from killed her by battering her with a hammer and stick and dumped her body into a nearby river.

Police say he has confessed to his crime. All of this happened almost exactly a month ago. It was only last week that the Nepali police were able to track down the alleged suspect who police say tried to commit suicide by jumping out of the police station window, after he confessed and was arrested.

The motive of the murder unknown. Authorities are also still trying to locate the victim's body, just to put this brutal murder into perspective, though. It is very common for volunteers and social workers to travel to Nepal. It is a tourist haven. Many female travelers visit the countryside and stay in homes. Nepalis are well- known to be welcoming. The country depends on tourism for much of its economy. So murder of this kind is very, very rare and indeed a very disturbing development.

Sumnima Udas, CNN, New Delhi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Up next, a page straight out of the Pope Francis play book. A call to help the most desperate across Europe. Refugee families living in horrifying conditions. Now, the pontiff is preaching compassion through example.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:33] CABRERA: As thousands of migrants flood the shores of Europe, Pope Francis is now appealing to his followers to put their faith to action. He is imploring parishes, now their catholic institution all across Europe to open their doors to these desperate travelers.

CNN's senior Vatican analyst John Allen is joining me live from Denver this morning - this afternoon I should say, almost morning there. He is also author of "the Francis Miracle."

John, thanks for being here. Of course, this move seems to fit right in with Pope Francis' theme of this is papacy that focus is really on those who are least fortunate, doesn't it?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, exactly, Ana. Those who are at the margins. Now, at one level this was a surprise, in the sense that no one knew it was coming. But if you know Francis' values and his concerns, it's probably one of the least surprising things he's ever done. I mean, this is a son of Italian immigrants to Argentina, who were fleeing the rise of Mosilini (ph) in the early 20th century. He knows a little bit something about hitting the road because of war and violence. He has made immigration a cornerstone of his social teachings since the beginning of this papacy. And he says over and over again that concerns for immigrants and refugees can't just be abstract and it can't just be about political advocacy. It has to be concrete. It has to have street value. So in that sense this is a vintage Francis move, Ana.

CABRERA: And time and time again he puts himself in in the center of some of the world's biggest conflicts. Why?

ALLEN: Well, because I think he believes the faith has to be relevant. I mean, I don't think he wants to be just one this pious figures who walks around engaging in, you know, fluffy-sounding rhetoric but doesn't move history, you know. I mean, he got involved in the conflict between the United States and Cuba, because he saw an opening to get something done. And he has been talking about the environment, in part because he's hoping to influence the U.N. summit on climate change in Paris later this year. I think this is another example of how the Pope believes that the Christian faith, when it's applied creatively to concrete circumstance, can change the world.

CABRERA: Any hint here on what the Pope's message might be when he visits the U.S. later this month? Given we're having an immigration debate in our country right now?

ALLEN: Yes. Well, Ana, I would like to say that, you know, having covered Francis for almost three years now, one thing I have learned is not to be overly dogmatic about what he is or is not going to do. And this pope will surprise you. But that said, it would be shocking, I think, if immigration was and forced migration, and so on, refugees, was not at the core both to the address he gives to the global community at the United Nations in New York and also in his speech to Congress.

CABRERA: It will be interesting. And a lot of peopling will be listening and watching.

John Allen, thanks so much for being here.

ALLEN: Sure.

CABRERA: Up next, Hillary Clinton, just moments ago, talking to supporters in Hampton, Illinois today. This is the day after some more slipping numbers in the polls. How her campaign is reacting, coming up at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:58:48] CABRERA: We've got something you don't want to miss. This is going to be fun. There is some new blood coming to the CNN quiz show, and joining some old favorites. And it is the TV edition this time. Here's what the matchups look like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wise, mature.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, mature.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very happy that Mike Rowe and Brooke paired together.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hers three's company too. It's like an orgy.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don Lemon is yet again paired with John Berman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are the returning champions of the CNN Quiz show.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are the A-team. They are the team to beat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am not intimidated by the Don-John. We can totally take them down.

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(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Good teams with some attitude. You don't want to miss the showdown from comedy to current events, actors to animal stars. Test your TV knowledge with the "The CNN Quiz Show" tonight at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific.

It is going to do it for me. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now. Thanks for being with me.