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European Leaders Pledge to Solve Migrant Crisis; New Archaeological Find Near Stonehenge

Aired September 7, 2015 - 15:00:00   ET



[15:00:00] HALA GORANI, HOST: Europe takes action, leaders pledge greater assistance for the thousands of migrants pouring onto the continent in the

hope of a better life.

Plus, while politicians make new promises we go back to Bodrum in Turkey, a key launching point for desperate and dangerous refugee journeys that show

no sign of slowing down.

Also tackling the refugee crisis at its source as France's President says he will do more to fight ISIS. The U.K. says two of its citizens have been

killed in a drone strike in Syria.


GORANI: A lot to get through this hour, I'm Hala Gorani, we're coming to you live from London, thanks for being with us this is The World Right Now.

Well over the last several days we have seen some harrowing, sometimes heartbreaking images emerging from the migrant and refugee crisis, and they

seem to be having some sort of impact.

European nations are stepping up their efforts this Monday.


GORANI: Just a few hours ago British Prime Minister, David Cameron committed to resettling another 20,000 Syrians over the next five years.

He says they will be pulled from camps in the region instead of groups already in Europe, like the people you see here in a camp on the border

between Hungary and Serbia, they will not be affected by this decision.

Now the French President, Francois Hollande, agreed to take in 24,000 people over the next two years.

The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, has pledged more than $3 billion to help deal with the influx, that money is in addition to Germany's

leadership in resettling thousands of people.


GORANI: But Mrs. Merkel also stressed the need to address the root cause of this historic migration.


ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: (As translated) The community of countries and nations of course also need to fight the causes of the

migration of the escape that is fighting terrorism, fighting civil wars. That is our focal point and the Federal Government will extend its

contribution towards prevention and preventative measures.


GORANI: There is Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany. As we've been reporting countries deal very different - differently with this influx of

people. But all told the flow of asylum seekers into Europe remains steady.

Senior international correspondent Arwa Damon has been making large parts of the journey alongside the migrants and refugees. She's followed their

progressing into and through Europe and we find her tonight on the border between Serbia and Hungary where we saw some scuffles, where we saw a lot

of frustration from the refugees in that part of Hungary. Tell us what you saw today.

ARWA DAMON, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes Hala there really has been a fair amount of anger and now that night has fallen it is also very

bitterly cold and the refugees sense that they are just being left to their own devices, just left to languish caused quite a bit of aggravation

earlier in the day and they actually tried to take matters into their own hands.


DAMON: This is the reaction of desperate people who just want to keep going, trying to force their way through the police line, but fail. They

simply can't take the conditions here anymore.

This is what awaits them when they cross into Hungary, it's meant to be a holding site but they end up waiting for days for the buses to arrive amid

the filth with little to no shelter and just a small local non-profit to help.

In a tiny medical tent a little boy who collapsed, exhaustion and dehydration we are told. Most are refugees from the wars in Syria, Iraq

and Afghanistan. They fled to save themselves and their children.

(Fouad Abdul Aziz saw ISIS take over his city, his children exposed to the rotting corpse of their victims in the (main) squares. Still the boys are

homesick and confused.

Along the road he keeps telling his daddy, I want to go home. All (Fouad) can respond is god is good, the day will come when we will go back home.

His only momentum from Syria tightly wrapped in plastic to protect it during the sea crossing, his barber kit. A trait he could no longer

practice in Syria under ISIS.

It was forbidden, you can't cut beards and your hair has to be one length he tells us. Home as they knew it is gone.

[15:05:07] It's what drives most to make the journey. I am an old woman I ran from Assad's brutality this woman shouts and they put me here in the

sun. I lost my home, my everything, all I have left are my sons.

The injustice of all they have been through boiling over. They are both let on but the bottleneck of humanity intensifies as others continue to


DAMON: And Hala, there have been some improvements, a lot more tents than we saw earlier in the day, they were donated by people who saw the plight

of the refugees and decided to bring them over. They have also been bringing blankets, in some cases shoes, warm clothing. That's especially

important for the children. Over here you have medicines and a little bit of just basic medical assistance that is taking place also very important

because a lot of the kids and the adults have been getting sick.

We also were just speaking with UNHCR representatives who we did see on site and they were telling us that over the next few days they do plan on

setting up some sort of a shelter here. And Hala, it is clear that these types of small improvements to the conditions cannot come soon enough.


GORANI: All right, our senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon, at the border between Hungary and Serbia. Interesting the UNHCR presence just

a few days ago we've been told by the head of the UNHCR that their request for assistance had not been accepted so it seems as though there is some

change there. Thanks Arwa.

Meanwhile the debate between EU member states rages on; which country should take in how many refugees.


GORANI: I want to show you some figures compiled last year, take a look at the number of accepted asylum applications relative to the population size

of each EU country. Sweden is relatively small but it is dealing with a large percentage of migrants. So per capita it is the most generous

country. It takes in more than 300 refugees per 100,000 population, that's been the metric that organizations have been using.

My next guest is Sweden's Minister for Foreign Affairs, Margot Wallstrom, joins me now live from our Paris Bureau this evening. Thanks for joining



GORANI: I want to ask you first about Sweden and it's been as we mentioned there generous with refugees per capita, it has been the most welcoming in

Europe. Are there any plans to welcome more, to up the number of refugees that Sweden intends to welcome this year?

MARGO WALLSTROM, SWEDEN'S MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Well we have done this before. We have welcomed in the 90s more than 84,000 refugees from

the Balkans.


WALLSTROM: And we accept that every person has the right to seek asylum and if they come to Sweden we will treat them in a decent way and we will

also give them asylum and especially if they come from Syria.

So we want to and we will manage. But of course this puts also the European solidarity to a test. And I think it is important that we signal

being the community that rests on common values of democracy and the defense of human rights. We also have to show that we can take a common

responsibility, a joint responsibility for the asylum seekers and refugees.

GORANI: Now do you - do you Foreign Minister agree, we understand the President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, is going to

propose a plan to increase the number of political asylum slots by 120,000 and that it should be a compulsory migrant across the Eurozone, the

European Union. Do you think that's the way to go that it should be somehow that countries don't accept their fair share be sanctioned?

WALLSTROM: Well I don't know about the sanctions but I do believe we ought to respond in a way that shows we can also have solidarity between the EU,

the 28 EU member states. And I think there must be a system and a reform also of our structures and systems that allow more member states to take

responsibility the way that Germany and my country has done already.

So I think we ought to be able to agree on distribution system and it has to do with again our common values, and that should be the next step now.

GORANI: But Foreign Minister it's all about how to enforce it. You know you've heard I'm sure the Hungarian Prime Minister over the last several

days saying to refugees, stay in Turkey, that his country has the right not to accept thousands of Muslim refugees.


GORANI: How do you react to comments like that from the Hungarian Prime Minister?

[15:10:10] WALLSTROM: They are refugees and migrants and they have a right to asylum, to seek asylum in another country. They are human beings

and we have - I think we have to demonstrate that humanity trumps all.


WALLSTROM: And that we have to solve the concrete problems of border control. That we have to ensure that people can be rescued from travelling

the Mediterranean in boats if necessary. And that we can also set up the systems to deal with these flows of migrants. And I think we just have to

prepare for this because in the future I'm sure we will see more flows of migrants and refugees because of climate change or because of war and


So we had better brace for this change and make sure that we organize our societies in a way that does not create more tension but really help people

to find a job and education and take care of especially the children and young people.

GORANI: But what happens when countries are not on board in the way Hungary clearly is not. What does the European Union do then? It is 28


WALLSTROM: I think we also have to show that we - that we are willing to help them. And maybe we have to look at also how to use our sort of

financial and other means, the funds that we have in Europe to pay for necessary for example border controls or make sure that they can live up to

the conventions that we have decided on.

And this is also important that we show solidarity towards each other. There are a lot of practical challenges when we see so many people moving

across borders. Of course there is but basically there has to be a signal and a message of welcome and the fact that we respect their human rights.

GORANI: And speaking of what's going on at the source; you are in Paris for a conference on protection of victims of persecution in the Middle

East. There've been many - there's more talk in recent weeks about establishing safe havens inside of Syria et cetera. What is your biggest

concern? Where do you see a solution emerging there in such a dire situation?


WALLSTROM: This will be discussed here in Paris in an international meeting on how to protect religious and ethnic groups especially in the

Middle East. And I hope that we will also see some bold ideas of how we can do that. And of course we have to ensure their safety and their

security first and foremost. We should also recognize that there is so much of sexual violence for example against especially young girls and

women, and I think this is a global skirt that we have to deal with in a serious way. And the Security Council have to put this on their agenda,

keep it there and define it as a peace and security issue.

GORANI: And you were - you mentioned conflict related sexual violence, it's something that's close to your - I mean one important issue for you to

the point that I understand you've actually written to the Secretary General of the United Nations Ban Ki-Moon. What kind of organization like

the UN do to tackle this among a list - an endless list seemingly of problems?

WALLSTROM: They have already addressed it through a number of resolutions since 15 years back. The main thing is to end impunity and amnesty for

these kind of horrible atrocities. And we have to make sure that we continue using and implementing the methods or the things of the security

council has already decided on; naming and shaming, making sure that they are listed - the perpetrators are - that there's a follow up to the

perpetrators. And that we act jointly.

And maybe look at what has happened now when it has been also become a tactic of terror not only a weapon of war but also a tactic of terror. And

I think there should be a - I hope that there would be a special session on this particular issue. And I also hope that they will keep the special

mandates that are working on these issues because it is - it is something that will affect not only an individual but a family, a village, and a

whole country.

[15:15:07] GORANI: All right, the Foreign Minister of Sweden, Margot Wallstrom, joining us from Paris. Thanks very much, good luck with the


WALLSTROM: Thank you.

GORANI: A lot more to come this evening.


GORANI: Much more on Europe's reaction to this massive influx of refugees. We'll speak to a British Member of Parliament who says the solution could

require British soldiers on the ground in Syria. We'll talk about his ideas, his proposals coming up. Stay with us.




GORANI: The British Prime Minister, David Cameron, says two British Nationals were killed in a drone strike in Syria.


GORANI: The target of the attack was Reyaad Khan, you see him there highlighted on the left, and then Ruhul Amin highlighted on the right in

these pictures, we understand also killed in this strike. The U.K. has hit ISIS targets in Iraq but this would be the first time it has struck inside

of Syria.

Cameron told Parliament that the two were killed by an RAF drone near the ISIS controlled town of Raqqa.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Today I can inform the house that in an act of self-defense and after meticulous planning Reyaad Khan was

killed in a precision airstrike carried out on the 21st of August by an RAF remotely piloted aircraft while he was travelling in a vehicle in the area

of Raqqa in Syria.

In addition to Reyaad Khan who was the target of the strike, two ISIL associates were also killed one of whom Ruhul Amin has been identified as a

U.K. national. They were ISIL fighters and I can confirm there were no civilian casualties.


GORANI: My next guest says safe havens should be created in Syria for people fleeing violence so that they don't have to make the dangerous

journey to Europe at all.

Conservative Parliament Member, Andrew Mitchell, joins me now in the studio. He's also served as British Secretary of State for International


Thank you sir for being with us. I need to ask you about this drone strike here. The U.K. parliament voted against military action in Syria and yet

not only did we hear a few months ago that British pilots were involved in coalition strikes but now a drone is dropping bombs in Syria. Isn't that

going against the wish of Parliament?

ANDREW MITCHELL, BRITISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Well a drone is not dropping bombs, what's happened is a calculated strike entirely legal as advised to

the National Security Council by the Attorney General in order to perpetrate an act of self-defense against a person or people who were

plotting harm against British Citizens. And it's entirely therefore lawful in self-defense for that action to be taken.


MITCHELL: Now the Prime Minister (exceeded) of course to Parliament's instructions that the RAF bombing campaign would be allowed in Iraq but not

in Syria. This is however a very specific action and the Prime Minister always made clear that if there was something that needed to be done

urgently and Parliament couldn't be consulted then of course he would do it. So I'm relaxed about the action taken today.

[15:20:07] GORANI: I was going to say I don't think anyone's going to argue these were nice guys, I just think that the criticism can be made

that technically it might be lawful but in spirit it goes against the wishes of Parliament. Do you accept that?

MITCHELL: No, I don't think that's true. I mean the executive has to have an ability to act when something like this takes place and Parliament would

not expect him to stay his hand when he had this opportunity to, in self- defense stop a potential attacker of Britain.


GORANI: Let me ask you about this idea of creating safe havens inside of Syria to protect civilians. How do you police them inside of a country at

war with ISIS controlled territory all over Northern Syria?

MITCHELL: Well my suggestion is that we should find two say safe havens to which citizens displaced can go. After all half of this country of 20

million people are displaced today and have either fled over the border or being displaced in their own country.


MITCHELL: The safe havens would have to be under United Nations auspices and they would have to be properly defended ideally by troops from the

region for example possibly Egypt or Jordan. But the NATO, and other country .

GORANI: . but not British soldiers?

MITCHELL: Well ideally not but as part of the immense diplomatic effort that is now required to bring all the organizations which can help with

this which includes the Iranians, the Russians, the Americans, the United Nations, to bring them all to bear, you need to try and make sure you've

got a permissive atmosphere where people can go to these safe havens.

GORANI: But Mr. Mitchell I was going to tell - I was going to ask you about how you - how do you make this not an offensive military mission?

MITCHELL: Well it's very - it's very clear they won't attack anyone. Those defending the enclaves are there in a defensive not in an offensive .

GORANI: With the ability to engage in combat related activities?


MITCHELL: Well they would - I believe they should have a Chapter 7 mandate from the United Nations which means they are able to protect themselves and

those citizens who they are seeking to protect. But they would not be taking offensive action, there would not be offensive boots on the ground,

there would be defensive boots and would only fire if they were attacked. But if they were attacked they would clearly need to have very strong

resources at their disposal to hit back.

GORANI: I put this idea to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and said do you have a safe haven, safe zone whatever you call it inside of Syria.

He said you have to be very careful. Srebrenica was a safe haven, we saw the massacre that took place there in the Balkans. You really need to do

this very carefully. There are some great risks associated.

MITCHELL: Incredibly carefully. And you need to make sure that the defense that is available, people you are saying you will look after you

can carry that out. A lot of lessons have been learned from Srebrenica which of course is a stain on the international community.

GORANI: Quick last question; 20,000 more refugees that was announced by David Cameron, the British Prime Minister by 2020 from caps in the Middle

East not currently in Europe. The Archbishop of Canterbury is saying a very slim response.

MITCHELL: I don't agree with that. Firstly it's right to take them from the camps, those who are in Europe are already safe in that respect, and we

don't want to act as a magnet encouraging people to put themselves into the hands of the slave trader and make this perilous journey to Europe.

But don't just look at the 20,000; we've already given safe haven to 5,000 Syrians over the last four years and Britain has been right at the lead,

second only to America, in terms of supporting hundreds of thousands of Syrians who fled off under gunfire over the border into camps where Britain

has spent more than a billion pounds, $1.6 billion in defending people in grave peril. And housing them, making sure they are fed and looked after

and receiving medicine, and their children education.

So in terms of humanitarian relief Britain has done more than the whole of the rest of the Europe (inaudible) put together.

GORANI: In terms of money.

MITCHELL: And support for hundreds of thousands of Syrians.

GORANI: Member of Parliament, Conservative Member of Parliament, Andrew Mitchell, thanks very much for being on CNN, we really appreciate you

dropping by for this important discussion.

A lot more ahead. He was once lightly regarded in the U.S. Presidential race but no longer.


GORANI: A new polling showing Bernie Sanders is gaining momentum against the democratic frontrunner, Hilary Clinton. We'll have that story next,

stay with us.




[15:31:12] GORANI: Welcome back everybody, a look at your top stories and more on the refugee crisis. The woman becoming known as Momma Merkel is

announcing more money to deal with Europe's migrant and refugee crisis.


GORANI: The German Chancellor has pledged more than $3 billion to resettlement efforts for the huge number of asylum seekers in her country.


GORANI: Also among the top stories, France is set to step up its involvement in fighting ISIS in Syria.


GORANI: The French President, Francois Hollande said the country will be reconnaissance missions over Syria and could launch air strikes against

ISIS targets there which it has not done yet.


GORANI: The British Prime Minister, David Cameron, says two British nationals were killed in a drone strike in Syria.


GORANI: The U.K. has hit ISIS targets in Iraq. This would be the first time it is striking inside of Syria. Cameron told parliament that the two

were killed by an RAF drone near the ISIS controlled town of Raqqa.

Phil Black joins me now live in the studio for more on this.


GORANI: Now we know that parliament in the U.K. voted against military action in Syria. We heard a few weeks ago, months ago now, that British

pilots were taking part in coalition airstrikes. But also now that this drone attack has happened. So what is the thinking behind this strategy


PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well yes, you're right. British forces are only authorized by Parliament to fight in Iraq, not Syria. And that's why

this is controversial. But today David Cameron I think really took a few people by surprise when he first of all confirmed that yes a British

Citizen had been killed by a U.S. drone strike, which we were kind of aware of. But went further and to say that British forces had targeted their own

citizen in a drone strike in Syria.


BLACK: He gave very few details. This was about as detailed as he got, take a listen.

PRIME MINISTER CAMERON: Both Jinaid Hussain and Reyaad Khan were British Nationals based in Syria who were involved in activities - in actively

recruiting ISIL sympathizes and seeking to orchestrate specific and barbaric attacks against the west including directing a number of planned

terrorist attacks right here in Britain such as plots to attack high profile public commemorations including those taking place this summer.

We should be under no illusion their intention was the murder of British Citizens.


GORANI: Now critics are saying this is a slippery slope, if you start drone attacks that means it opens the door to further military involvement

in Syria, is that on the table?

BLACK: Well David Cameron has already said that yes he backs further military involvement in Syria but crucially Parliament hasn't approved it.

And the Government's not going to go to Parliament with that question until it feels confident that it will get a yes vote. It obviously doesn't

believe that is the case now. But David Cameron believes this is a special case, that it's legal. Again he hasn't gone into a lot of detail here

except to say this is a case of self-defense, that Britain was simply defending itself from a man who posed a direct threat.

GORANI: All right, Phil Black, thanks for covering that part of the story from London, thanks for being in the studio.

Now a German official says more than 10,000 refugees are expected to enter the country today alone.


GORANI: They've travelled a long way, many starting in Syria. Most migrants who follow this route don't want to stay in Southern Europe,

instead they want to head North and West to the continents wealthier nations.

The German Government is welcoming refugees who are fleeing war with open arms especially when you compare it to its European neighbors. But as

Atika Shubert reports there is a growing backlash to the new arrivals.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They keep coming, thousands every day at the main train station in Europe often greeted by

applauded locals or welcoming volunteers. It's no wonder that Germany is the preferred destination for so many refugees.

But not everyone in Germany welcomes the newcomers. Early Monday morning a fire burned down a shelter for aiding refugees, five were treated at

hospital. It took 150 firefighters to put out the blaze raising fears of yet another arson attack on immigrants.

[15:25:12] In fact as the number of refugees arriving inclines so do the number of attacks. According to the Interior Ministry more than 340

reported incidents so far this year from vandalism to arson.

On Monday morning German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, rallied the nations to tackle the refugee crisis with pragmatic compassion.

MERKEL: (As translated) We will need the voluntary support she said. We already know we need 10,000 volunteers to help, this crisis is going to

change our country but I think we are up for the challenge she said.

SHUBERT: In her speech Merkel outlined a plan to deal with the crisis; an additional $3 billion now set aside bringing it to $6 billion allocated to

help house, feed, and find jobs for up to 800,000 refugee applicants. 150,000 temporary homes still needed to be built.

As you can see refugees already coming across here and this is the kind of reception center that German Chancellor Angela Merkel says she wants to see

more of. And you can hear the kind of warm welcome they're receiving.

But Chancellor Merkel also said that those who are fleeing war and persecution will be given refuge here. On the other hand those who are

deemed to have come from safe and politically stable countries, will be returned home.

For now, that distinction is lost on the thousands arriving here every day. They're just relieved to have a safe place for the night or thinking about

what happens after tomorrow.

Atika Shubert, CNN, Munich.


GORANI: Well in our coverage of this refugee crisis there seems to be a before Aylan Kurdi image period and an after. Because you all remember the

impact it had, maybe it even changed policy. It's the little boy whose body washed up on a beach near Bodrum in Turkey and it really drove home

the risk that refugees take to reach Europe.


GORANI: But the journeys continue. You can see here just how close Bodrum is to Kos, the Greek Island.

CNN's Ivan Watson witnessed a search and rescue in this very stretch of water that saved around 20 people.

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Under the spotlight of a Turkish Coastguard cutter the silhouettes of more than 20 people stranded

in a rubber boat. They are desperate, frightened but tonight luckily saved by volunteers from the Bodrum Sea Rescue Association who work alongside the

Turkish Coastguard.

Among the passengers rescued five little children, just four days after the world was shocked by photographs of a Syrian refugee toddler who drowned at

sea. These people have embarked on the exact same perilous journey.

They set off from the Turkish resort peninsular of Bodrum in the hope of reaching the Greek Island of Kos. Instead of drifting at sea with a failed

engine, these people will be brought back safely to Turkey.

The beaches below Bodrum's villas and posh resorts, an unlikely launching point for tens of thousands of refugees and migrants willing to risk

everything to reach Europe.

Under the light of the crescent moon we witness another attempt at a crossing. It's actually 2am and we've encountered another little rubber

dinghy loaded with people. They're actually paddling in the direction of Greece. It's incredibly overloaded, this little boat. It's an accident

waiting to happen.

To make matters worse some wear heavy backpacks over their life jackets.

Before possible disaster strikes, the Coastguard comes to the rescue. Tonight they fail to reach Greece but they will live another day.


GORANI: Ivan Watson reporting there. You saw migrants trying to reach Kos there in Ivan's report. Elsewhere in Greece Greek police say at least

10,000 refugees and migrants are stuck on the small island of Lesbos.


GORANI: They're waiting to get their ID documents processed. A Greek passenger ferry meanwhile used its lifeboats to rescue dozens of migrants

on a dinghy that was sinking off Lesbos Island.

Passengers on the Blue Star One Ferry raised the alarm after spotting the overcrowded dinghy. There were violence couples with police over the

weekend but authorities say the situation is calm now. And here's what happened by the way Saturday/Sunday, this is I believe from Friday.

[15:40:06] The authorities acknowledge that there are long lines of people waiting for ships to take them to Athens and that there is major

frustration there.

We continue to cover this migrant and refugee story from all angles in all parts of Europe. Don't forget you can get the latest news, interviews and

analysis on my Facebook page,, and we'll put some of our most notable interviews

on there as well as the stories we've covered. And we always appreciate your comments and contributions.

This is The World Right Now, coming up as refugees continue their dangerous journey to Europe religious leaders are calling for them to be supported.

I'll be speaking to the former Chief Rabbi of the UK. We'll be right back.




GORANI: Well Pope Francis is weighing in on this refugee crisis. He's calling on Catholic institutions throughout Europe to offer shelter to the

refugees arriving in Europe. He urged other religious communities to do the same during an address in Saint Peter's Square on Sunday. Listen.


POPE FRANCIS: (As translated) Faced with the tragedy of tens of thousands of refugees who are fleeing death from war and from hunger and who are on

the road in the hope of a better life, the gospel calls us and asks us to show solidarity to the smallest and the abandoned and to give them a real



GORANI: Well here's Delia Gallagher with more on what the Pope had to say.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Pope Francis says the Vatican will welcome one refugee family in each of its two parishes. I spoke to

peoples' spokesman Father Lombardi earlier who said those families may not necessarily stay inside the Vatican but could be hosted by families that

attend Mass at the Vatican Parish Churches.


GALLAGHER: There are some 120,000 catholic parishes across Europe according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostle at Georgetown

University, and that's not including convents, monasteries and religious institutions that the Pope has called upon.

Some European churches have already begun to welcome migrants. In Milan for example there are some 900 places available for refugee families.

In the archdiocese of Vienna, the Archbishop announced that there would be some 1,000 places made available for refugees.


GALLAGHER: The Vatican says there is no specific plan for implementation but it is their hope that Catholic institutions across Europe will heed the

Pope's call.

Delia Gallagher, CNN, Rome.

GORANI: Well other religious figures are speaking out as well. The UK's former Chief Rabbi, Jonathan Sax has written a piece for the Guardian

newspaper where he says


[15:45:00]GORANI: "At such times even small humanitarian gestures can light a flame of hope. That is what happened in Kindertransport the

initiative that saw 10,000 Jewish children rescued from Nazi Germany. Half a century later I came to know many of those who had been rescued. They

loved Britain and sought richly to contribute to it.


GORANI: Rabbi Jonathan Sacks who also wrote the book "Not in God's Name: Confronting Religious Violence" joins me live from New York. Thank you

Rabbi for being with us.

RABBI LORD JONATHAN SACKS, FORMER CHIEF RABBI OF THE UK: You recount in this piece for the Guardian Kindertransport, the scheme that saved

thousands of Jewish children. Do you see a parallel historically with what is happening now in Europe?

I really do you know in 1938 everyone knew an enormous humanitarian disaster was in the making. And the politics of the situation simply

froze. Nations didn't open their doors. And there was this extraordinary initiative to rescue 10,000 Jewish children from Germany. And you know

60/70 years later the impact of that is still giving hope. I knew the survivors, I saw just what a difference it made to the love they had for


So I think we are facing a humanitarian disaster on the most momentous scale. And the Pope is right to call on Catholics to engage with this, to

those who have already been engaging to this.


RABBI SACKS: Jewish charities in Britain have already been engaged in rescuing Christians from Syria. A Jewish activist in Canada has been

rescuing (inaudible) from Syria.

So I think religious groups can get together and show the West is a country and a region of the world where religion is about peace and humanitarianism

rather than about conflict and violence.

GORANI: But Rabbi, we heard from the Prime Minister of Hungary saying things, and I'm paraphrasing along the lines of we have the right not to

accept Muslims. Slovakia said we'll accept Syrians but they have to be Christian. I mean do you think part of the resistance here is some level

of Islamaphobia, of a fear of Muslims here because so many of these refugees come from Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan?

RABBI SACKS: I don't think you want to stoke the flames of Islamaphobia. And therefore if a country says look, we have internal political

resistances to recognize I don't think we should be too hard on them.

You have Germany wrestling with the legacy of its past, being incredibly generous. I don't think there should be a one size fits all for Europe,

each country has its own history to wrestle with, its own resistances to be aware of. And I'm not about to attack Hungary for being negative.

The truth is the countries that are generous, that do open their doors and their hearts, will in the long run do more for Freedom than I think any

military intervention can do.


GORANI: So you will - you don't criticize countries that essentially say we don't want Muslims but praise those who accept large numbers of

refugees. Sweden is another one for instance.

But what about for instance the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, he's saying we don't want Syrian refugees, we're going to build

a fence with Jordan to make sure refugees stay out. How do you react to those types of statements from Israel?


RABBI SACKS: Let me be very blunt. Israel right now is doing a great deal of covert unpublicized work with refugees, with the Syrian refugees in

Turkey, in Lebanon, in Jordan. There are Syrian refugees right now being treated in Israeli hospitals.

The truth is most Syrians do not want to seek refuge in Israel because they're worried that so hostile is the Syrian attitude to Israel that if

they take refuge there they will never be allowed back home.


RABBI SACKS: I think Israel has always been a home for refugees and it's not out of lack of goodwill it's just a fact of the situation and the

political tensions in the Middle East.

GORANI: In the West Bank, the President Mahmoud Abbas, is saying Syrians should come live in the West Bank, that this would show solidarity. Is

that potentially an idea?

RABBI SACKS: Look, I think that at a human level we - Jews in Israel and around the world know what it feels like to be refugees. This is deeply

engraved in our soles. And therefore anything that we can do with the Palestinians, Israel on its own, Jews around the world, anything we can do

to make humanitarian gestures. Because I am only here because somebody let in my parents and my grandparents when they were refugees.

So you're calling on an enormously willing response from Israel and from Jews around the world constrained by political realities. But we do think

that having seen so far in the 21st century religion pictured as a force of extremism, conflict and violence now Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs,

Hindus, Buddhists around the world can show the other face of religion, coming together to save lives, to open doors, and to open hearts.

[15:50:24] GORANI: All right, well we - it's been an uneven response in Europe but we'll see how it all develops across the continent. Rabbi

Jonathan Sacks, joins us from New York, thank you very much for being with us and sharing your perspective on this.

RABBI SACKS: Thank you.

GORANI: And when it comes to the tens of thousands of migrants streaming out of Syria and Iraq wealthy Gulf Arab states are coming under some sharp

criticism. You've seen tweets about it I know those of you who follow this story closely. They've been criticized for not doing enough because they

are rich afterall and they should be able to accept Syrian refugees.

They're providing cash but have no plans to actually take in individuals. Becky Anderson has more from Abu Dhabi.


BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Exhausted and drained but determined to make it. Most are marching towards Germany where they are

being welcomed with open arms.

The majority are Syrian and have travelled thousands of miles in search of a better life, often paying the ultimate price. And now questions being

raised about why these people fleeing war couldn't find suitable refuge closer to home, namely in right Arab Gulf countries that could afford to

house them.

The uproar has gained momentum on social media. Images like these were wildly circulated with hashtags such as welcoming Syria's refugees is a

Gulf duty, calling on leaders to do more.

And the UN has voiced its concerns.

ANTONIO GUTERRAS, UN HIGH COMMISSION FOR REFUGEES: And that is why we have been asking that not only the borders of the region are opened but that all

other borders special in the developed world are also opened. And it is true for Europe, it is true in the Gulf, its true everywhere where

countries have the capacity to receive some Syrians and to integrate them in their societies.

ANDERSON: There are more than 4 million Syrian refugees in the region but according to Amnesty International six Gulf countries haven't offered any

resettlement locations to the refugees.

They've been giving money though and lots of it. Since the war broke out Kuwait alone has donated almost a billion dollars to the UN to help Syrians

making it the fifth largest donor worldwide.

ABDULKHALIQ ABDULLAH, RETIRED PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF UAE: There's a lot that the Arab Gulf States have done that has not been recognized by the

international community. I don't think anybody, any country, any state, have helped the Syrian refugee more so than the Arab Gulf state.

ANDERSON: But Gulf countries don't recognize refugees. They're not signatories to the 1951 Refugee Convention.

So anyone who wants to enter has to meet standard Visa requirements which tens of thousands of Syrians do, and there are security concerns about

hosting large populations from Arab states.

ABDULLAH: Having refugees also feeds into ISIS appeal, and it feeds into the violence's in the region which is already you know the most violent

region on earth. So all in all, anything that goes in the neighborhood impacts the security and the stability of the Arab Gulf states who are by

far the most stable and the most secure of all Arab countries.

ANDERSON: We've spoken to officials here in the UAE who say that they have given almost a half a billion dollars citing their efforts to help Syrians

in Jordan and Iraq as examples.

At the moment it seems the money will continue but the doors are staying closed.

Becky Anderson, CNN, Abu Dhabi.


GORANI: We'll be right back after a break.



[15:55:12] GORANI: It's been hidden for thousands of years now archaeologists have unearthed a new Superhenge in Southwest England. Erin

McLaughlin has more on the new discovery.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It takes your breath away. People from all over travel to see Stonehenge, its construction and

its purpose remain a mystery, thousands of years old. And now we're learning that just two miles away from here a discovery so extraordinary

experts are calling it archaeology on steroids.

Scientists used ground penetrating radar technology to make the discovery. They found at least 40 stone slabs and spaces for at least 160 more.

It's incredible to be here knowing that beneath my feet the remnants of an ancient monument 15 times the size of Stonehenge.

The National Trust, Nick Snashall says the new find re-writes the history of the area.

NICK SNASHALL, THE NATIONAL TRUST: This place seems to have formed, to have had three different functions. It started life as a settlement, once

the settlement went out of use and they stopped building Stonehenge, then it became a place that was revered, it became a place of ritual. So that's

when they seemed to bring in the stones.

But then very shortly there afterwards somebody decides that the ritual needs to be done in a different way. The ceremony and the site are not

doing it quite right.

So they change it, and they bury the lot.

MCLAUGHLIN: And what does this tell us?

SNASHALL: I think what it tells us that the story of the Stonehenge landscape is much more complicated than we'd ever thought it was.

MCLAUGHLIN: So the mystery of Stonehenge deepens?


MCLAUGHLIN: Erin McLaughlin, CNN, Durrington Walls.


GORANI: There you have it, Superhenge. Thanks for watching, this has been The World Right Now. Catch me on twitter at HalaGorani, or on our Facebook

page. And do stay with us on CNN, a lot more ahead after a quick break its Quest Means Business.